Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed

23 posts · 2006-02-09 15:30:00 to 2006-03-24 15:29:41

#34900004977 02/09/2006 15:30:00 Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed

Yes, we removed Tactics scores and damage absorbed from the combat chat. I understand this is likely a less-than-popular decision, but the team feels it's necessary for several reasons. Before I explain, please keep in mind that this is a test server and, while we feel the change is a needed one, we will listen to feedback. All we ask is that everyone keep an open mind when trying out the changes.


In the old combat system, Tactics scores were everything because you either hit or missed each round. If you missed, you took damage and dealt none. Therefore, maximizing your Tactics scores was critical to survival. While high Tactics scores are still important under CR2.0, they aren't nearly as critical anymore, especially given that it's no longer your tactic versus your opponent's tactic.


As we all know by now, your Resistances are more critical to survival than Tactics scores are in CR2.0. So why remove the damage absorbed? To eliminate confusion, mostly. The negative absorbed numbers and the discrepancy when landing a final blow make things more complicated than they need to be. What matters, in the end, is the total amount of damage taken.


We're removing these items now because our first major NPC balancing pass is being implemented in Update 5. Rather than paying attention to the numbers, we want to hear how combat feels. Do you feel appropriately badass when plowing through Grey, Blue, and Green-con NPCs? Do the various Yellows give you an appropriate fight--not too hard, not too easy? Do Orange, Red, and Purple-con NPCs seem to be at the right difficulty level?


You'll still see total damage output, but we hope that removing these numbers reduces unnecessary distractions. Your Bonus panel should give you enough detail on your current status and, if it doesn't, then we need to see what we can do.


Again, please keep an open mind when testing these changes. We think they are for the better and are, as always, interested in your feedback.
#34900004983 02/09/2006 15:42:40 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Open mind is the key. 2.0 already kicks *CENSORED*, and this patch should make it 1 step closer  to being what we want combat to be.
#34900004984 02/09/2006 15:43:43 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Makes sense.  At least it will clean up the system area, therefore making things less confusing.  And the new IL recticles should be all we need.  Clarification on who is getting hit each round is what we asked for, and we've got it.  I think it will be a perfect solution, but we shall see... SMILEY
#34900004985 02/09/2006 15:47:58 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Hmmm i feel we still need to put a good deal of enphasys on the tactic score... at least AS MUCH as the resistences.






Walrus wrote:

 All we ask is that everyone keep an open mind when trying out the changes.



Ehy Walrus look at my signature! YOU ARE STEALING MY IDEA LOL SMILEY SMILEY

Message Edited by Fade2blacK on 02-09-200603:52 PM

#34900004990 02/09/2006 15:55:30 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
thanks for the explanation, walrus!
"Don't think your loadout is good. Know your loadout is good" SMILEY
#34900004991 02/09/2006 15:59:52 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Maybe it´s the right direction to remove it. What i can tell now is, my eyes are fixed on the chat tracking my rolls and on the hotbar tracking to see if my specials work, hit, miss or whatever.... my eyes are the less fixed on the greatest combat animations i´ve ever seen in an MMO.

So, yeah... let´s give it a try.


dave




Message Edited by davemusic on 02-10-200601:02 AM

#34900005007 02/09/2006 17:21:23 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
I'm not sure I agree with the decision to remove roll data, but I definately agree with removing absorbtion data. It's always been kind of weird. I'll try it out, but I hope the roll removal is temporary. But it won't ruin the game if it stays gone.
"Well, whatever it is you're not doing, go don't do it somewhere else."
-A police officer in "Manos" The Hands of Fate
#34900005012 02/09/2006 18:50:06 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed

Interesting idea and I will take a look at this with an open mind. But one thing might still be missing, knowing an opponents tactics.

If you can determine the tactics used by your opponent then you can change yours to maximize the possibility of striking your opponent. This is not impossible now, you just need to know the various tactic animations for your opponents style. That means learning six different styles in the soldier tree alone. Perhaps it would be nice to show your opponents tactic under their target information.  Could probably use the same icons that detect vulnerability used but without the numbers. we already look there for state icons so this wouldn't detract much from the flow of combat I would think.

#34900005034 02/09/2006 21:54:34 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Personally, I would prefer if there was an option to enable/disable the scores.

Sure it's fun watching your RSI beating the heck out of a low level enemy, but when it comes to important things like pvp, I believe the scores are very much needed.


It's always important to know how much your base stats are effected by things like boosters and buffed clothing.

Otherwise you're just shooting in the dark hoping that hoping your stats are high enough, or that one stat is too high and you didn't know you that can lower it down in exchange for buffing another stat without much sacrifice.



Message Edited by Aquilae on 02-10-200612:56 AM



#34900005048 02/10/2006 00:33:34 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
I like this idea, suggested it in private.

CR2.0 isn't *just* about tactic scores now, but players are still stuck in that mindset. Removing the opportunity to focus on it - at least in the short term - should help people (by force, perhaps) to learn not to be so reliant on them.
#34900005053 02/10/2006 03:03:34 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Seems faily reasonable to me. Keep up the good work.
#34900005055 02/10/2006 04:07:17 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
we are becoming like other mmo's, many may think this is a good thing while others may feel its a bad thing.

In other mmo's you dont need to see your stats e.t.c the reason is that you can hit anything and everything, providing your accrucey is high enough to hit.

this means a level 1 can hit a level 20 or even and 50 the only thing that should matter is how much damage it does.

so walrus i feel is right in saying the only thing that matters mainly is the damage resistance.

but then we have an interlock system, where we dont always hit we need need a decent tactics score to hit, and then our resistances are taking into account.

i have tried this theory for hours just duelling someone for hours using my 3 alts and the free-fire damage seems to be ok when its one on one, however, if they are in interlock and you got even a level 11 attacking then the interlocked peeps are at a major disadvantage.

because they need to have a high tactics score to beable to roll out of interlock, but if they focused on the resistance then they have no hope for survival. Because their tactics aint quite high enough to get attacks in, and they are getting attacked 2ways.

again im not a dev and they may have something to sort this out, but we need more built in resistance to attacks, so we still take some damage but not enough to end the fight in seconds.

and as its built in you only get the bonus when in interlock so you dont have huge resistance out of interlock too........ maybe something like
http://mxoboards.station.sony.com/matrix/board/message?board.id=epdiscussion&message.id=4764#M4764
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#34900005057 02/10/2006 05:58:40 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
well after playing for 2hours this morning the damage absorbed are still active within the game. maybe an error in the code or someting but it still exists
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#34900005067 02/10/2006 08:25:28 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed

2 words...

Combat logs.

#34900005078 02/10/2006 11:25:15 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed





shauntaylor88 wrote:
well after playing for 2hours this morning the damage absorbed are still active within the game. maybe an error in the code or someting but it still exists




Special Attacks still display the damage absorbed at this time due to an oversight on our part. Normal attacks should not.
#34900005080 02/10/2006 11:40:24 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed


Walrus wrote:
Special Attacks still display the damage absorbed at this time due to an oversight on our part. Normal attacks should not.


Jupp... exactly what i noticed..... and i didn´t miss the rolls. But damage is less transparent without detailed chat-documentation. The good thing is: It didn´t take much time to get kinda used with the colored markers. And the green star on successfull specials look stylish. Right direction for CR 2.0


dav

Message Edited by davemusic on 02-10-200608:44 PM

#34900005139 02/11/2006 14:48:30 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
 My problem with this is based on my ability to improve.  In the old system I know when I am fighting a level 50 what his Mct, and Rct are.  I can judge his skills, what I need to do to Pwn his ****.   Seriously the ability to say his Mct is 235, I can get mine to 257 with a booster lets fight is important.  And when dissecting my losses I look through system chat to judge where MY weakness was, what I needed to improve to fight him again and hopefully win.  Do you see what I mean?  How can I improve unless I can see why I lost? Unless I can see which of my stats was just too low.
Ninja!


#34900005334 02/16/2006 11:02:30 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Ok, I would like a clarification on this. From what you have said Walrus, it sounds like the removal of tactic scores (I could really care less about absorbed dmg, but it would be nice too, the more info the better) is only temporary, is my assumption correct? Will they be put back in once the balance is worked out, and everything 'feels' right, or are they gone permenently?
#34900005935 03/07/2006 02:34:01 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
having now spent a good few ours testing this, i think it doesnt make that much difference, the fights are a lot more balance, and you "know" what your stats are like.. this way it provides a hidden element to the individuals loadout/rolls which then means you need to think more carefully about openents....
#34900006073 03/08/2006 15:06:10 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed


Aquatium wrote:
having now spent a good few ours testing this, i think it doesnt make that much difference, the fights are a lot more balance, and you "know" what your stats are like.. this way it provides a hidden element to the individuals loadout/rolls which then means you need to think more carefully about openents....


 But to me a great element was fighting, judging their base rolls and how to combat them, then creating a  loadout that could win. to the extent that on occaision as an MA i loaded logic barrage 1 to check their VD for weakness.

 Lesson 1 : Know your enemy.

Ninja!


#34900007361 03/23/2006 06:21:08 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
Is anyone else seeing random tactic rolls lately?
#34900007729 03/24/2006 15:05:01 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
 I think that removal of tatic scores will not effect the fun , yes I agree that these's more information then we need reguarding "tatics and damage absorbed", and  the yellow NPC's should be orange like in the cresten hideout SMILEY with a  purpleNPC along the way with a grand prize lev 65 , yellow NPC's are fun though I must say :smileywink:, and yes  combat is fun I think.  test event went very well in my opinion I was glad I was able to find time to be there at the right time. lol  , lag was low for me yet my lag meter was in the red.... thats a good sign..  ty  dev team good work,  im a Captain on recursion server and would like to see events more often in the future please. that would help alot, also captains should get better information on event clues that way I can pass the discussion onto my crew /faction..( like if there was a announcement)


dracomet ...  ouch! 


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#34900007741 03/24/2006 15:29:41 Re: Removal of Tactics Scores and Damage Absorbed
For the purposes of testing it can be hard to tell if abilities, attributes, clothing, are even doing what they're supposed to be doing.

Right now there is a lot of blind faith that goes into setting up one's build. For example, having full vitality is supposed to increase your initiative bonus, hence your initiative, but does that mean you win more rolls, NOPE. What about when you're at 1/4 health and you activate desperation, yes it adds alot to the bonus there (more so than you normally get without max vitality), does this mean you win every roll now? NOPE   So then what is the benefit of vitality at max? NOTHING so far as I can determine.

Now do I report this as a bug or is this how the developer intended it to be? Do they intend for the Proxy Master buff to be passive or active? Don't know!?!  How are we supposed to see the differences our bonuses make if we can't view rolls or absorption? It seems to me that while we can get a FEEL for it, we have no hard evidence to base our claims on short of recording how much net damage is taken per round and how many times in a given exchange of 10 rounds we win lose or tie.
"The heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know."
-The Oracle