Hacker in Interlock? - MXO Forum Archive

#34900006801 03/18/2006 12:44:39 Hacker in Interlock?

I was fighting a hacker in interlock on the EP server today, and I noticed that it was much, much easier for the hacker to win rolls while in interlock. Aren't their rolls still being negatively modified when they try to use hacker attacks in interlock? And if not, why not?

In the interest of balance it has to be like this imho. If the hacker is able to do (even in CR 2.0 they do large amts of damage) tremendous amounts of damage outside of interlock, while interlock dependant loadouts work to get them in interlock, hackers, and those who use out of interlock attacks, should have negative modifiers attached to their abilities when they try to use them in interlock.

Am I wrong in thinking this?

#34900006802 03/18/2006 13:50:17 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

No i don't think you are. I dueled a hacker yesterday and won once out of three goes with duelist loaded. While it is good they are limited to certain abilities in IL, they still seem to hit often and do large dmg, even with good viral resis.

#34900006806 03/18/2006 14:06:56 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Are there any plans to change this HCFrog? Yes? No? And if no, why?

#34900006809 03/18/2006 14:32:43 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

They wont recognize the imbalances until it goes live on vector... so just stay tuned hehe because your not gonna get much out of the non hostility of the test server.

#34900006810 03/18/2006 14:34:02 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

HaKeRz pwn............................. MA's cry

#34900006822 03/19/2006 00:01:37 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

hmmmm I'm thinking this one over, about what the rolls would be to make it come out like that... hmmmm SMILEY

I'll have to get back to you on this one. It does kind of present an interesting situation when you think through it.

Cause basically in IL, a hacker casting a hack uses their Viral Accuracy vs. your Viral Defense, and if you're MA, your VD will be way better than in live, but not as good as a hacker's viral defense and accuracy. They have a better chance of hitting you, and every time they hit with a special and you're not using a special, your move won't go through because specials trump everything else (which is why Walrus always says "zero-sum combat isn't completely gone..." SMILEY

so hackers definitely are more powerful in IL than they were before.

I think they were meant to be better in IL with CR2; but they might be turning out too much better. Since their attacks got the IS costs reduced recently, they now might be able to use them more repeatedly than an MA or gunman... verrrrry interesting.

#34900006825 03/19/2006 00:53:57 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Well, from my experience with Harmful Code 1.0, I'm doing about the same damage that an MA does with his special (apart from the uber ones likes Wooden Dummy or FA Redux) for an IS cost that's near nothing (16 for me), while still being able to heal myself (and friendlies) with Restore Group 2.0 running on just about fumes.

Then again, I can only use it once every 8s (I think), but still, I'd imagine a Ballista would be dangerous in IL.

Now, I don't know what a couple of hackers from Vector were using earlier today, but they were throwing Cannons and Bomb/Nukes all over the place and I didn't notice them to stop, I'll have to test with a friend tomorrow about just how many attacks it takes me to burn my IS.

Still, looking at my buffs (I normally go about 40-short on my last one): Evade, Improved Hacking, Resist Combat, Movement 1.0, Gaussian Blur, Determination, Combat Training, and Viral Shielding. That's 410 IS so 370 IS, you toss on my Force Mulitplier's Cost Reduction, after stats comes to 13% comes to a burn of 322 IS.

Looking at that, without an IS Cost Reduction anywhere, you could hit about 24 cycles of Logic Barrage 4.0 and Blast 3.0 without running out of IS.

An interesting note is that they're rather efficient. The efficency (DPS/IS) of the main Ballista moves is 4.85 (Piercing) with Barrage 4.0 and 4.64 with Blast 3.0. With Cannon 2.0 (1.07), Nuke 3.0 (1), and Bomb 2.0 (1.15), your efficiencies approach 1.

(The effeciencies of Barrage 4.0/Blast 3.0 versus those of Nuke 3.0/Bomb 2.0 have about the same difference as those between the Trauma Surgeon heals and the Physician ones. Still, they are about twice as efficient.)

If you look at Karate for example, their effeciencies move between .48 for Wrist Throw (with a Stun chance though) to nearly one with Sidekick Combo (1.12), Maki-Otoshi (1), and EFK (1.15). Not to mention they all require interlock and have 10s re-use timers :o.

Now that's pretty interesting there... and with the short cast times of Barrage and Blast, interuption chance (if they have Concentration at least) has to be rather minimal so...

Also, just because, the effeciencies of the Harmful Codes are:

1.0: .67
2.0: 1.1
3.0: 2.26

With shorter re-use timers then MA moves SMILEY

.

#34900006826 03/19/2006 01:06:50 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

I think one of the main problems with Hackers in interlock is that their high-DPS moves that take more than 4 seconds to cast are doing even higher DPS due to the fact that Interlock rounds are supposed to last 4 seconds.

Perhaps Hackers should suffer a DPS penalty proportional to the casting time of some of their attacks?

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#34900006827 03/19/2006 01:10:34 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

I didn't touch on this above, but it's rather important:

Let's look at sustained damage (because of a Ballista's high efficency). Now of course he'd be in combat with a shot regen, plus let's say he's getting people bouncing off his shield, with this many variables, let's assume he has no regen (and we'll go with with my pool of 247) that comes to 41s.

41s of damage at an average of 57 Viral DPS is 2337 Damage pre-mods (also, remember the Barrage 4.0s are armor piercing). In interlock you'd half this damage because of round length (I think) versus free-hacking.

The math = ouch, either way. When you look at long-launch moves their effeciency blows, but their burst DPS is evil (as it's always been) in IL... except this time, they can land them effectively without the target being de-buffed prior.

Message Edited by Cal on 03-19-200601:19 AM

#34900006847 03/19/2006 06:30:47 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Just want to raise this point again: There are NO armour piercng abilities or items left in the game! I have this on good authority from 9mmFu himself (you better not be playin' wit me, foo' SMILEY

). All that's left are textual errors, which I spent half an hour compiling into a report to get fixed.

#34900006854 03/19/2006 09:23:33 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

WaaaaaaaH! that's all I hear these days when someone loses a duel to someone else with a different loadout. Omg! the evade shield is too strong.....make it weaker so I can interlock hackers and gunmen and pwn them with MA, and go straight into machine gun fist and extreme falling kick to get an easy win!....Ok they nerf the evade shield.....Waaaaaaaah omg! the hackers and gunmen are too powerful in interlock my VD does'nt deflect and, and, his attacks hits more often then mine. Tell you whiners something you may not know, MA's are not the top of the food chain k! So stop trying to get them to be. I have yet to read a post about a hacker complaining about MA's redundantly cheap tactics in interlock, or gunmen for that matter. The most complainingness class is those red derim steen pant wearing, dire/greywolf coat bearing, trolls hide, widow's moore lenze and torturer's glove sporting MA's. MA's motto = nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf,nerf!:smileyvery-happy:

#34900006855 03/19/2006 09:28:01 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Cal's numbers are spot on - good work there. I think the bottom line here is that Hackers have somehow become more effective in interlock than interlock classes. There needs to be an element of balance, either an increase in IS costs and casting times or a decrease in DPS, because a well-built hacker or patcher is unstoppable right now.

You do have a point Magno, but I think we need to keep in mind the functions of the different trees. I'm not saying nerf, I'm just saying balance. What is the point of playing a Martial Artist if you can't beat a hacker in interlock? There should not be a "food chain" per se, but more of a situational cycle, whereby if a certain character build catches another build in a certain situation, they are heavily favored to win. Every build would have its advantageous situations, and every build would have disadvantageous situations - no one is at the top, no one at the bottom, just an ever turning wheel of whoop-*CENSORED*.

As it stands now, a well-built patcher can stand against any other build in a duel, because they can heal themselves indefinitely, and never run out of IS. A well-built hacker can chain-cast moves dealing out a constant stream of high-powered damage in or out of interlock, and never run out of IS. These things break the cycle. Lets keep the wheel turning.

Message Edited by The_Wendigo on 03-19-200609:34 AM

#34900006892 03/19/2006 16:32:04 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Well If what balance does it offer to the hackers when there are anti pills to stop purple effects that you can constantly pop one after the other with a very short reuse timer which makes the despoiler tree and every other downgrade ineffective, along with an automatic stun immunity after you get stunned or pacified "PLUS" an activity facilitator that sweeps for at least 10 mins? When doing boxes, more hackers are called hands down then MA's...why? Because hackers can bend more rules of the matrix. Neo=Hacker, Morpheus=Hacker, Trinity=Hacker, ect. ect. I mean why complain....you guys get bullet time!

#34900006917 03/20/2006 03:16:35 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

MrMagno wrote:
Well If what balance does it offer to the hackers when there are anti pills to stop purple effects that you can constantly pop one after the other with a very short reuse timer which makes the despoiler tree and every other downgrade ineffective, along with an automatic stun immunity after you get stunned or pacified "PLUS" an activity facilitator that sweeps for at least 10 mins? When doing boxes, more hackers are called hands down then MA's...why? Because hackers can bend more rules of the matrix. Neo=Hacker, Morpheus=Hacker, Trinity=Hacker, ect. ect. I mean why complain....you guys get bullet time!

Translated this means:

"I play as an hacker so I don't care about balance, I just want h4x0rZ to pwn MAs both where hackers are supposed to be good and where they are not supposed to!"

#34900006927 03/20/2006 06:35:46 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Translated this means:

"I play as an hacker so I don't care about balance, I just want h4x0rZ to pwn MAs both where hackers are supposed to be good and where they are not supposed to!":smileyvery-happy:

I could care less about hackers not being good in interlock, I'd just like the anti's to have a decent reuse timer like the activity facilitators. And as far as your translation.....I play Hacker/MA so it I don't care about getting in interlock as a matter of fact I want it....but by the time my free attack does 2600dmg I can garuantee that once I bust "YOUR" evade shield, you'll be the one spamming your roll out icon!

Message Edited by MrMagno on 03-20-200606:38 AM

#34900006928 03/20/2006 07:03:35 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

MrMagno wrote:
Well If what balance does it offer to the hackers when there are anti pills to stop purple effects that you can constantly pop one after the other with a very short reuse timer which makes the despoiler tree and every other downgrade ineffective, along with an automatic stun immunity after you get stunned or pacified "PLUS" an activity facilitator that sweeps for at least 10 mins? When doing boxes, more hackers are called hands down then MA's...why? Because hackers can bend more rules of the matrix. Neo=Hacker, Morpheus=Hacker, Trinity=Hacker, ect. ect. I mean why complain....you guys get bullet time!

Well if we're going to get into this...

Neo = All MA grandmaster

Morpheus = SMG Specialist / Aikido Master

Trinity = Master Assassin

Why do I say this? Because you never see any of them endlessly roll out of interlock time after time after time and stand in one spot casting spells thinking they're hot stuff. SMILEY

-----

Why are hackers called on for more pandora boxes? They arent, specifically upgrade masters and healers are called because Hackers cant even touch the Box 4 NPCs for example, they usually call one or two UMs for Box 4 and then MA/Gunmen for the rest. Any skilled person who doesnt find entertainment in standing in one spot casting spells can beat any of the Box missions sans-hacker.

But to more formally protest our claim of why hackers are called more often, its because they are uber overpowered right now... wow amazing how quickly we forget that.

Message Edited by Sephiroth+X on 03-20-200607:04 AM

#34900006936 03/20/2006 09:09:04 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Hackers shouldn't be good in Interlock, nuff said.

I hate to sound negative on the issue, but that's a very strong beleif I have. Leave IL to the Martial Artists and Gunmen, let Hackers pelt us from Afar!

#34900006937 03/20/2006 09:17:09 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

PBlade wrote:
Hackers shouldn't be good in Interlock, nuff said.

I hate to sound negative on the issue, but that's a very strong beleif I have. Leave IL to the Martial Artists and Gunmen, let Hackers pelt us from Afar!

V for Very Agree

#34900006944 03/20/2006 10:16:46 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

no 2 ways about it. hacker is overpowered. i dont care if they can deal big dmg out of interlock, full auto redux anyone?? the problem still stands that in interlock the hackers not only can do strong damage, but can lay down more specials in addition to regular attack attempts (thankfully most miss) to the point that any ma or gunman in interlock with a hacker is constantly under a viral barrage. just spamming out their viral attacks from even the lowest part of the tree makes an arbalest unbalanced. it is just too much damage output when most (90%) of their specials land (no state requirements either...hmmm) . even if you have an aikido or pistol loadout with hyper-deflect, shielded clothes, grab, hacker up to transmit virus and 30 belief its still just too wacky to watch. my main gripe is seeing those viral attacks laying into me one ontop of the other at a greater (possibly bugged) rate than my attacks. what happened to an even exchange?? they can easily get in 3 attacks per 1.5 to 2 of mine not counting any stuns/powerless that hit just before interlock. if they are going to get more attacks to attempt, they need to miss more or do less dmg. landing that many 200 plus dmg attacks with a 1000 dmg login cannon or 2 in the middle is a bit much. please fix this dev. that goes for anything else people are trying to do by slipping clamors into combat between attacks.

Message Edited by davec4s on 03-20-200610:18 AM

#34900006947 03/20/2006 10:23:02 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

As I said before, Hackers either need to suffer either a Viral Accuracy penalty or a Defense penalty while Interlocked. Interlock should spell death for Hackers, but since they have so many high-DPS abilities that are made more powerful under the 4-second rule in Interlock, they're even more deadly.

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#34900006967 03/20/2006 14:11:50 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

What one must ask in contradiction to all those who try to defend hackers are this: Why have hackers been such a problem to fix throughout all of these changes and patches, and upgrades? It almost seems as if they're more problems then they're worth.

Mr. Magno, maybe you should re-teach yourself on the values that sold this game. Interlock was one of the many major selling components. "Wire-Fu" aka fighting with martial arts just like they did in the movie. Have you ever wondered why hackers are not in *any* of the cinematics, or almost *none* of the advertisements? My God, Niobe could have wiped out all of the General's men up on that roof if she had one good Howitzer. And that's sad.

When Hackers get into interlock, they are out of their element, and as such, they should have to pay a penalty. Interlock dependent loadouts are out of their element when they're out in the open, and they pay one hell of a hefty penalty.

HCFrog, when can we expect a revamp of the Hacker revamp, because they're currently way overpowered.

#34900006969 03/20/2006 14:36:13 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Well i think we gone see another delay of CR.2 or not???I think this problem with hackers is or a big mistake maded by devs or they really wan the hackers to be so overpowered.When QA was open hacker was really nerfed but with every patch the powers of hacker keep growing and growing and i can expect that in final the hacker stun to last almost like in old system, i bet devs loves hacker tree more then other, otherwise i cant explain why they are so powerfull when they say something else before the launch of CR.2??????

Ohh and i forgot ,its 20 and it was supose CR.2 to be out,with this hackers, u can imagine???

Message Edited by AmmorF on 03-20-200602:38 PM

#34900007005 03/20/2006 17:05:58 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

It seems as if the matrix community wishes for a hacker free server. I don't believe this will happen. I have been solely playing as a hacker on the test server. So far the only two trees worth anything are the ballista/and possibly howitzer. The "vector abilities do no dmg, and the other trees are debuffs"

My only survival on the matrix with CR2.0 now lies in the usage of a team. Standing by myself hacking in Mara C quickly gets me killed.

Out of interlock hackers get hit alot and can barely cast without heavy concentration loaded. Melee/Throw/Ballistic dmg makes it hard to cast hacks that take 2-5 seconds to throw.

In interlock, you could not really compare Viral Accuracy vs. Melee Accuracy, when there are no abilities to increase viral accuracy. MA specials almost always out roll a hacker- but it seems as if a hacker hacks/ in Interlock when the opponent fails to roll a special, the hacker will win.

So there are two sides to this.

Everyone complained about the evade shield. As a hacker it is almost impossible to get out of interlock. Now the 3 hits to break a shield, the hacker would virtually be unable to cast in a crowd of enemies. Is that what you want?

If the hacker rolls are put against a ma "accuracy" or "defense" the hacker will now be useless.

I would imagine with the 3 defense scores now, a team of melee, balistica, and throw accuracy will easily take down the most buffed hacker.

Something needs to be done, but getting rid of the hacker tree would make this game less interesting.

Possibly make a small "Viral Deflection Buff" Oh yeah that exists already. Well...

Message Edited by Nicodemusx on 03-20-200605:14 PM

#34900007013 03/20/2006 19:21:46 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

HCFrog wrote:

I think they were meant to be better in IL with CR2; but they might be turning out too much better.

Perhaps a better question is this.
Aside from looking cool, what exactly is the advantage of a martial artist over any other practical pvp class?
......
.........

............*CENSORED*

"The heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know."
-The Oracle

#34900007045 03/21/2006 02:58:00 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Yes, I also believe that hackers are too strong in interlock.

#34900007056 03/21/2006 05:47:41 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Agree with Pblade, they shouldn't even be in interlock.. or disabled specials when in interlock, this ballista killed me yest with hackers/codebombs etc and I was using my specials too.. omg i jus couldnt believe it lol, if a hacker is in interlock, surely that spells death for them, -.-

#34900007081 03/21/2006 10:23:48 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

DA6ONET wrote:

HCFrog wrote:

I think they were meant to be better in IL with CR2; but they might be turning out too much better.

Perhaps a better question is this.
Aside from looking cool, what exactly is the advantage of a martial artist over any other practical pvp class?
......
.........

............*CENSORED*

My thoughts EXACTLY!!

#34900007083 03/21/2006 10:29:19 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

I'm going on record here and now.

Hacker classes have once again

TOTALLY RUINED THE GAME.

AGAIN!

And yet again no one has the sense to do the right thing.

DELETE THE ENTIRE TREE.

In interlock a hacker should be dead in 2 hits with an MA.

It's like Bruce Lee Vs. Bill Gates!!

Come one people this is an easy one!!

I did this test today.. I dueled a hacker. I have a darn nice MA build and I like to say I'm pretty decent. The hacker I was dueling never got hit in Interlock, never ran low on IS, and chain casted hacks on me.

I'm disgusted.

Message Edited by Spadz on 03-21-200610:29 AM

#34900007088 03/21/2006 11:00:40 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

HCFrog wrote:

I think they were meant to be better in IL with CR2; but they might be turning out too much better. Since their attacks got the IS costs reduced recently, they now might be able to use them more repeatedly than an MA or gunman... verrrrry interesting.

That means you need to increase the IS cost, Hackers were supposed to be nerfed. And for a time, it was good. Just drop them back to about 2 weeks ago, when they didn't pwn in interlock.

Argh! They shouldn't be good in IL at all...that's what's annoying me the most. This problem has the potential the feck a lot of things up....

#34900007089 03/21/2006 11:04:16 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Ok...

1. Removing a tree from the game is not going to happen. Removing content just makes people leave.

2. When I hack in IL I have about a 50% chance of my hacks getting through compared to the current live system which is... 10% chance with perception shades on. If I directly go for IL with hacker I would die, any skilled MA knows this, and any skilled hacker knows this. At least in CR2 I can mess you up good before you kill me.

3. Hacker in IL needs to stop being thought of as a physical thing, the hacker is using his mind to attack you, you are using your body more than your mind... You mind is directly tied into the matrix... it makes sense for them to mess you up bad.

4. If you want hackers to basically just die once they enter IL then using hacker is pointless for pvp, people all go for the hacker to break their shield now. Once the shield is broke they go IL and just beat them down. This will only be worse with 20 MA's who can only IL one person at a time (They all multi IL now) hence they will be fighting just to get one person into IL.

In summary I think it is fine how you have CR2 right now for hackers in IL.

However if the DPS is based on the launch time... there most likely is a bug here.

#34900007090 03/21/2006 11:25:42 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

LiquidZ wrote:
Ok...

1. Removing a tree from the game is not going to happen. Removing content just makes people leave.

Agreed

2. When I hack in IL I have about a 50% chance of my hacks getting through compared to the current live system which is... 10% chance with perception shades on. If I directly go for IL with hacker I would die, any skilled MA knows this, and any skilled hacker knows this. At least in CR2 I can mess you up good before you kill me.

Actually the old system is probability based/zero-sum. If your base score is 205 and the person your fighting has a base of 235, that means you can roll anywhere from 206-305 and he can roll anywhere from 236-335 (not including specials which can add as much as 20pts to that). So that your success rate is more directly related to luck ie 305 vs 236 one roll and 206 vs 335 the next :-p

Now the system is based on Viral Accuracy vs Melee Accuracy & Melee Defense vs Viral Defense. "Hacker" martial arts style is going to have much higher rolls than karate/kungfu/aikido/spy/duelist/smg/rifleman styles because currently a hacker can keep using specials (which roll higher) without running out of IS. Each of these specials is comparable in damage to any special in the other classes (high resistance they're going to hit you for around 400, low resistance around 800) hence the class imbalance within interlock. Imagine an MA being able to string together all of his specials without running out of IS, you get the same thing, pwned.

3. Hacker in IL needs to stop being thought of as a physical thing, the hacker is using his mind to attack you, you are using your body more than your mind... You mind is directly tied into the matrix... it makes sense for them to mess you up bad.

Our bodies are on a hovercraft, our minds are all that is jacked into the matrix. While a hacker is supposed to be more logical and have high levels of reason, a martial artist for example has mental toughness, endurance, heart. So you're really pitting a logical thinker vs someone who could be brash and overbearing. I think that should be a good fight.

4. If you want hackers to basically just die once they enter IL then using hacker is pointless for pvp, people all go for the hacker to break their shield now. Once the shield is broke they go IL and just beat them down. This will only be worse with 20 MA's who can only IL one person at a time (They all multi IL now) hence they will be fighting just to get one person into IL.

The true battle of wits is a hacker vs a martial artist in interlock. Reason vs Belief, which is stronger, the logic of a hacker or the faith of a fighter? Hackers shouldn't neccessarily get their asses handed to them within interlock, but they'd better have good "reason" for getting that up close and personal with someone who is undoubtedly going to have a lot of "belief" in themselves.

In summary I think it is fine how you have CR2 right now for hackers in IL.

Disagree

However if the DPS is based on the launch time... there most likely is a bug here.

Agreed

"The heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know."
-The Oracle

#34900007092 03/21/2006 12:01:47 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

In interlock, you could not really compare Viral Accuracy vs. Melee Accuracy, when there are no abilities to increase viral accuracy. MA specials almost always out roll a hacker- but it seems as if a hacker hacks/ in Interlock when the opponent fails to roll a special, the hacker will win.
What?!?!? Actually, its quite the contrary. See upgrade attacks (arbalest tree). +65pts(+influences) of viral accuracy for 80 seconds make virtually impossible to outroll an hacker in interlock!
So there are two sides to this.
Everyone complained about the evade shield. As a hacker it is almost impossible to get out of interlock. Now the 3 hits to break a shield, the hacker would virtually be unable to cast in a crowd of enemies. Is that what you want?

Running into crowds of people should indeed be a big risk. Withdrawing is possible, just isn't so poitless as it was before (martial artist couldn't attack hackers from outside interlock, neither could attack them from inside). We are just used to the umbalances of live and we can't see that that was a very raw design flaw. In any balanced game /sport / situation even in real life, If you are outnumbered, why would you try to attack frontally?
If the hacker rolls are put against a ma "accuracy" or "defense" the hacker will now be useless.
I can't find a reason why a class so strong outside interlock as the hackers should also be more powerful inside than the classes that are only effective in interlock.

In Conclusion: have you actually been playing in the QA?

#34900007099 03/21/2006 13:10:34 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Update: All hacker attacks in Interlock have had an accuracy penalty applied.

Viral accuracy is still used in IL, however the viral accuracy will suffer a penalty as long as the hacker is in IL.

The penalty is much larger on higher level hacker abilities, so a high level hacker still may be able to get Logic Barrage 1.0 through nearly as much as they do now, but Logic Barrage 4.0 should be far less effective in IL.

Outside of Interlock will be unchanged.

#34900007100 03/21/2006 13:11:16 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

HCFrog wrote:
Update: All hacker attacks in Interlock have had an accuracy penalty applied.

Viral accuracy is still used in IL, however the viral accuracy will suffer a penalty as long as the hacker is in IL.

The penalty is much larger on higher level hacker abilities, so a high level hacker still may be able to get Logic Barrage 1.0 through nearly as much as they do now, but Logic Barrage 4.0 should be far less effective in IL.

Outside of Interlock will be unchanged.

Very nice move, HCFrog. Thank you. SMILEY

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#34900007103 03/21/2006 13:29:54 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

That works, can't wait to see it in action.

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#34900007105 03/21/2006 13:32:11 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Thanks HCFrog, that's awesome!

#34900007114 03/21/2006 14:16:18 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Is this coming out next proper patch, or when the servers go down today?

#34900007116 03/21/2006 14:22:30 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

I don't think it will be in today, but in the next patch.

#34900007125 03/21/2006 15:33:08 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Thank goodness.. someone understands.

Thanks Frog.

#34900007127 03/21/2006 15:36:51 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Great Job devs. I would hate to see the interlock hackers rule the live servers.

#34900007177 03/21/2006 21:16:11 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

/target HCFrog
/clap
/bigcheer
/bowhead
/pwnnubs

"The heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know."
-The Oracle

#34900007185 03/22/2006 06:50:16 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Thank you HCFrog! I'm very glad that this issue was brought up in order to secure balance. I can't wait to test this, as hackers, and all classes honestly, must be watched in order to maintain balance.

#34900007310 03/22/2006 17:55:17 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Personally I saw the biggest problem with hackers in interlock was the fact that they were able to cast their hacks (barrages/blasts) every round. Cause after usage the other hacks didn't fade into their re-use timers. Even MAs couldn't use their specials every round cause the re-use timers of every one of their special attacks was activated when they used one.

Add to that that those hacks were handled like specials, the hacker hacks could beat every MA initiative roll (especially with a +100 accuracy boost from Upgraded Attacks).

I'm not sure what to think about adding another sub-set of rules to interlock (adding an accuracy penalty to hackers in interlock). Instead I would have activated all the re-use timers of their hacks after they launched one.

This in combination with the current downgrade of Upgrade Attacks would do A LOT to balance hackers in IL. Now I'm just hoping that withdraw will get 'fixed' so they have a good chance to withdraw from interlock. Else every hacker will have to hit the hyperjump button as quickly as zheir shields gets broken. Or else you'll get 'ganked' by a team of 2 if you get interlocked and can't heal while withdrawing. :/

>revolt_

#34900007321 03/22/2006 20:28:11 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

The update 13 notes do say this was added. I was testing this out in some duels, I being a Karate Grandmaster, versus, a Ballista. I noticed a small change, but really if the patch had made any changes they weren't very effective for the problem.

1. If a ballista uses " ugrade attacks " which adds I think around 70 points to viral accuracy, which they can use in and out of interlock, and lasts quite awhile as timers go.... they become near impossible to outroll vs. there special attacks, even if you have max VD loaded.

2. The hacker special moves in interlock, as Symm mentioned.. fire off extremely fast causing massive damage in a very short amount time if done correctly.

3. Best tactic to fight a hacker one on one in interlock, Hope they don't have 'Upgrade Attacks' on and use special after special and don't run out of IS.. an MA's IS will run out quick vs. the Hacker in IL who's IS isn't all that much effected.. another advantage. Yes, even without upgrade attacks, a Hacker can easily add enough viral accuracy to outroll an MA's melee attacks, still.

4. Who said hackers were nerfed?

edit: one more thing, one of the real problems with this is Hackers and use these special attacks easy in IL..AND during free fire... it wouldn't be so bad if Karate GM could use Ki-charged foot sweep as a free fire attack, but of course that can't be done.... Balance is needed.

Message Edited by Dupz on 03-22-200608:30 PM

Message Edited by Dupz on 03-22-200608:33 PM

#34900007399 03/23/2006 08:33:47 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

STOP! STOP! STOP!

Stop saying hackers out roll this and out roll that! Any smart player knows that if you shoot and hit any class that trys to activate a special ability outside of IL then it will interupt that ability. If you duel or pvp a hacker then have your VD up to snuff. If you deflect his cast and rush to interlock him then BLOCK, BLOCK, and BLOCK! Because cr2 is....(get this folks) YOUR ATTACK vsTHEIR DEFENCE and visa versa! Once you interlock, your VD will no longer deflect for you. Randon rolls are gone! You will, get hit sometimes if you constantly throw attacks and not defend yourself. *CENSORED* more do you want? It's common sence (to me at least) that if a lvl 10 npc can now knock me down in IL at lvl 50, then certainly another lvl 50 can hit me in IL reguardless of their loadout. Geez, buff your defences, do some figureing out, use brain power ffs instead of running to frog everytime you get pwned in pvp or duels.

I play Battlefield 2 and when it first came out all I read on forums was constant whine threads of how over-powered the Jets were as compared to infantry. ROFL....they even went so far as asking to make the Jets vulnerable to small arms fire! Well in that game the food chain is such. 1 Jets, 2 Attack choppers, 3 Armor and last but not least....SOLDIERS!

Single soldiers will never be the top of the food chain m8s. They are only truly effective groups. The more complex something is to learn, the more benefits you will reap from it, just like everything else in life.

#34900007400 03/23/2006 08:39:15 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

If you want to go by this then I have to say that hackers never should be the top of the food chain, MrMagno. This game is not The Cyber Wizards Online.

>revolt_

#34900007402 03/23/2006 09:00:24 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

Sephiroth+X wrote:

Well if we're going to get into this...

Neo = All MA grandmaster

Morpheus = SMG Specialist / Aikido Master

Trinity = Master Assassin

Neo = All MA grandmaster True! and got his grandmaster *CENSORED* kicked by smith every time exept when he use a hack to "bend the rules of the matrix" and stopped bullets in mid-air with Ballistic Freeze 5.0. And I need not mention his dealings with the trainman. Used his hacks to stop sentinels and the IS cost sent him into a coma. Used Artillerist tree to get to the machine city, but yet again ran out of IS and it cost Trinity her second life.

Morpheus = SMG Specialist / Aikido Master True! and never won a fight with anyone except the twins, even got pwned by lvl 10 Neo in the dojo, and in the end, died a pathetic death.

Trinity = Master Assassin Maybe, but her first scene was hacking, when she met Neo, was praised for hacking, i.e. Neo thought she was a guy. Saved Neo, Morpheus and Key maker from dieing from hacking.

Sephiroth+X wrote:

Why do I say this? Because you never see any of them endlessly roll out of interlock time after time after time and stand in one spot casting spells thinking they're hot stuff.

On the contrary ALL of them ran (rolled-out) more times than not, with the exception of Neo only rolling out from Smith.

Message Edited by MrMagno on 03-23-200609:17 AM

#34900007410 03/23/2006 10:10:41 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

MrMagno wrote:
Neo = All MA grandmaster True! and got his grandmaster *CENSORED* kicked by smith every time exept when he use a hack to "bend the rules of the matrix" and stopped bullets in mid-air with Ballistic Freeze 5.0. And I need not mention his dealings with the trainman. Used his hacks to stop sentinels and the IS cost sent him into a coma. Used Artillerist tree to get to the machine city, but yet again ran out of IS and it cost Trinity her second life.

You. Are. Not. Neo.

>revolt_

#34900007414 03/23/2006 10:24:43 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

>revolt_ wrote:

You. Are. Not. Neo.

>revolt_

And. Neither. Are .You.

#34900007422 03/23/2006 10:55:48 Re: Hacker in Interlock?

No, but I'm not the one assuming he should have the powers of The One v6.0.

>revolt_