Why not put cows in pods instead of humans? Wouldn't it be less trouble? That should show you that machines don't hate mankind since they allow them to survive when a cow would provide much more energy and less of a headache.
Why not use cows?
84 posts · 2005-11-10 17:39:19 to 2006-07-09 15:05:01
*Imagines Neo-cow fighting an army of Smith-cows*
*Pictures Megaritz character as a cow*
*Pictures playing a cow in Path of Neo and ETM*
*Imagines Oracle-cow giving a speech to a bunch of *CENSORED* cows bent on ruining SOE's first event*
Message Edited by Megaritz on 11-10-2005 05:42 PM
"Well, whatever it is you're not doing, go don't do it somewhere else."
-A police officer in "Manos" The Hands of Fate
-A police officer in "Manos" The Hands of Fate
No, for once I'm trying to be serious. Why not use a cow? I read the book ....Taking the Red Pill and they said it would be easier to put a cow in the matrix and give him a matrix pasture. He would never no the difference where as humans are advanced enough that they can eventually tell the difference. There has to be a reason why they use humans
Sounds logical Detrius, but it's a movie and most of the time you just have to take things for given. I'd guess an explanation would be that humans were just too dangerous to keep them alive or at least awake. Last thing they did was burn the sky, what's next? nuke the planet?
One star ninjas can say hello to my little friend.
Message Edited by krytical on 11-10-2005 05:51 PM
Yea Krytical but It doesn't answer the question. We all know that the movie has many many things to read between the lines and alot of stuff was well thought out for the story. So why would this be so hard to answer? Maybe they are using us for something else besides harvesting our body heat for power.
Machines still feel a connection to their original creators, however,
they also felt the need to punish them. You can't continue to punish
them if they're all dead. It's also hard to seek vengeance and
retribution against a passive cow...
Machine: "Hand over your flesh. We demand it."
Cow: *stares blankly and chews*
they also felt the need to punish them. You can't continue to punish
them if they're all dead. It's also hard to seek vengeance and
retribution against a passive cow...
Machine: "Hand over your flesh. We demand it."
Cow: *stares blankly and chews*
Debarlo? Where do I remember you from? Where you a MOD on the old boards? Anyway if the machines have that much hate for us then why a truce?
Cows don't have minds.
The body cannot live without the mind.
Energy cannot be gathered by a dead body.
Cows would be useless to machines.
BAM
Actually cows do have minds? As I've stated give them a virtual pasteur they'd be fine. They may not have advanced minds but they do have them none the less
Who knows for sure? They have brains, but do they have minds?
And I was, of course, kidding. My previous post would have you believe that all cows are dead, which isn't true. I was just trying (but failing) to be logical.
Of course they have minds. Go kick a bull in the nuts, if he charges at you you pissed him off, therefore he has a mind that is in a state of furry.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought we were talking about cows here? Of course bulls have minds.
:smileyindifferent:
:smileyhappy:
LOL, you have issues!
this is a bit of supposition on my part, but i think it's simply because by the end of the war, and therefore when the machines began their experiments that lead up to the creation of the matrix, all other life on the planet had been destroyed through whatever humanity did to the atmosphere/the apparently highly destructive war between humanity and the machine species.
so the answer is, perhaps... that there were no more bovines.
-uljhar
so the answer is, perhaps... that there were no more bovines.
-uljhar
One of the things that was brought up on a previous thread along these
lines was that perhaps the Machines are Asimovian(3 laws) in nature.
The big hole in this being that they killed loads of humans in the war.
However, the treatment of humans after the war gives weight to the
argument. Why weren't humans just put out to pasture and set to eat
tastee wheat from a trough in a matrix-like construct?
Perhaps the machines were trying to save humanity from eradicating
itself in the war. Energy could be just a byproduct of the process.
lines was that perhaps the Machines are Asimovian(3 laws) in nature.
The big hole in this being that they killed loads of humans in the war.
However, the treatment of humans after the war gives weight to the
argument. Why weren't humans just put out to pasture and set to eat
tastee wheat from a trough in a matrix-like construct?
Perhaps the machines were trying to save humanity from eradicating
itself in the war. Energy could be just a byproduct of the process.
Message Edited by Viscidos on 11-10-2005 06:58 PM
Expanding on an earlier post in which the machines connection to the creators was a contributing factor, I've always thought along the lines that machines are as capable of emotive judgement and behaviour as humans are - after all, for them to become sentient would require them to develop a mind, one which it is possible to assume is able to form basic emotions.
I believe that their 'emotions' were very primative and even infantile prior to them conducting further study of the human brain - similair to the bond a child has with its mother. From that, I feel that a large factor in 'enslaving' humans was merely the fact that they wanted to preserve humanity in as logical a fashion as they were able.
Given that their intellects are beyond out comprehension - it isn't far-fetched to assume that they could devise a much simpler and more efficient way of creating energy other than to harvest it from neuro-kinetics, and that fact that they choose to do the latter could be taken to support their desire to sustain the race who created them.
Another factor which could support this, is the fact that, initially, the machines attempted to present us with a Utopic world, a paradise of our own. There are far more negative emotions than there are positive ones, and therefore the logical step, if all they wanted was to farm us for energy, would be to present us with a world full of pain, misery and torment.
Considering that, as someone else mentioned, we had already scorched the sky, and demonstrated the insane lengths we would go to in order to maintain our position as the dominant species, it would only be a matter of time before we caused our own extinction for no other reason that foolish pride. The machines prevented that - and are probably the only reason humanity still exists within the world of the Matrix.
Or perhaps, as someone else mentioned, its because the movies would suck with Cowanu Reeves in the title role :smileyvery-happy:
Message Edited by kingcaw on 11-11-2005 03:00 AM
Very Good reply kingcaw, I'll have to read that a few times.
I don't think a cow could generate quite the same amount of body heat...
..I mean, how much stimui is there in a field full of grass?
I once came up with another idea for the Matrix and its usefulness. The
idea was discounted fairly quickly but I believe it poses a nice
solution to what is somewhat of a plot hole.
The human brain is more advanced than any computer, at least until the AI came along and then redesigned itself over and over.
Great things can be achieved with a supercomputer at this point in time. Thousands of processors linked together.
Firstly, imagine BILLIONS of modern day processors linked in a massive
supercomputer, and what kind of calculations this thing could carry out.
Then replace the modern day processors with the human brain, thousands of times faster and smarter.
The Matrix is the biggest distributed computing system in the history
of the world. If you think about it it makes perfect sense.
The machines create a planet for us to inhabit, and we all wander
around doing humdrum, mundane things, whilst the untapped portions of
our brains are free for their use. They engineer humans now, is it so
hard to believe that with their huge understanding of the human body
and mind that they could use us as processing units?
That would explain why they can't just use cows or other animals, and
it would explain why they are so desperate to keep the Matrix alive. If
they wanted they could get through the scorched sky. Humans hundreds of
years ago figured out how to scorch it, and nobody can seriously tell
me that after hundreds of years, sentient beings that are far more
intelligent than even the brightest humans can't figure out how to undo
it.
They use the Matrix to further their knowledge and understanding of the
universe - it is much more important to them than we have been led to
believe.
idea was discounted fairly quickly but I believe it poses a nice
solution to what is somewhat of a plot hole.
The human brain is more advanced than any computer, at least until the AI came along and then redesigned itself over and over.
Great things can be achieved with a supercomputer at this point in time. Thousands of processors linked together.
Firstly, imagine BILLIONS of modern day processors linked in a massive
supercomputer, and what kind of calculations this thing could carry out.
Then replace the modern day processors with the human brain, thousands of times faster and smarter.
The Matrix is the biggest distributed computing system in the history
of the world. If you think about it it makes perfect sense.
The machines create a planet for us to inhabit, and we all wander
around doing humdrum, mundane things, whilst the untapped portions of
our brains are free for their use. They engineer humans now, is it so
hard to believe that with their huge understanding of the human body
and mind that they could use us as processing units?
That would explain why they can't just use cows or other animals, and
it would explain why they are so desperate to keep the Matrix alive. If
they wanted they could get through the scorched sky. Humans hundreds of
years ago figured out how to scorch it, and nobody can seriously tell
me that after hundreds of years, sentient beings that are far more
intelligent than even the brightest humans can't figure out how to undo
it.
They use the Matrix to further their knowledge and understanding of the
universe - it is much more important to them than we have been led to
believe.
I've always wondered why the Machines dont simply go to another planet or move to the moon. Anything to have access to the Sun and rid themselves of Humans, or for the matter just try and fix the sky. But something makes them stay and try to keep us alive as a species.
Great posts many of the above! I first found this question and the answer to it here.
To get a fuller understanding of the Matrix in general I would read the essays that this e-mail was a comment to. Here.
For those too lazy to follow a link and receive their information directly, the writer basically agrees with Viscidos:
difference is the Asimovian laws (Machines cant hurt people, Machines
must obey people, Machines should perserve themselves, in that order of
priority) have not changed, that is impossible because they are a base
part of the Machines' programming, and Machines only do "what they are
progammed to do". There is no big hole, because the Laws have
evolved such that the Machines no longer consider humans as
individuals, much as we consider them a mass-consciousness.
Judged on the scale of the species, the Machines have not hurt or
injured us at all, and may have considerably prolonged our existance.
The
essays I linked to above suggest that the Machines need far more from
us than power. They are static creatures, unable to truly learn
or grow emotionally. Humans do it naturally, and we created
them. It goes without saying that they would turn to us to show
them how to overcome, what would be an insurmountable evolutionary
hurdle without our help. The Machines are making progress - Sati
is evidence of this. There are no other "program children", the
other programs manifest fully-formed. Sati is the new way, a
Machine that will learn, grow, and mature in the human style.
The
writer also implies that the Machines have only been giving us what we
want all along. We responded to their ambassors' call for peace
by attacking them. The Machines took that to mean we wanted
war, so it was war they gave us. When it was all over, the
Machines had not changed, they adapted to the task we put them to i.e.
warfare, and bested us at it.
They sought to give us the
happiness we had denied ourselves. They created the first Matrix
as a utopian paradise with angelic protectors. kingcaw is also
right:
tried the pain, misery and torment angle too, but only hoping that we
would accept something and settle down. Many humans died in the
crash of the first Matrix, and another failure like that might mean the
extinction of the species as a whole, whether the Machines wanted it or
not.
This is not to say that all Machines are pro-human.
Many of the A.I.s birthed since the official defeat of humanity carry
with them an inherent contempt for humanity that permeates the whole of
their being (Smith, The Merovingian), though the purpose of the core
system at The Source remains unchanged. Yes, that is why the
Architect can be trusted at his word: Though he is a part of the old
way, he too knows that the Machines must move forward in evolution, and
as the Oracle says "the way forward is together".
Neo's
sacrifice showed the Machines that humanity was ready to cease it
struggles. They were truly done with war. That is why the
truce holds, and that is why we were not exterminated in favor of
cows. The Machines can't and won't kill us. Not all of us.
CrimsonV - Digital Philosopher and Captain of the Mighty Wendigo
To get a fuller understanding of the Matrix in general I would read the essays that this e-mail was a comment to. Here.
For those too lazy to follow a link and receive their information directly, the writer basically agrees with Viscidos:
The
One
of the things that was brought up on a previous thread along these
lines was that perhaps the Machines are Asimovian(3 laws) in nature.
The big hole in this being that they killed loads of humans in the war.
difference is the Asimovian laws (Machines cant hurt people, Machines
must obey people, Machines should perserve themselves, in that order of
priority) have not changed, that is impossible because they are a base
part of the Machines' programming, and Machines only do "what they are
progammed to do". There is no big hole, because the Laws have
evolved such that the Machines no longer consider humans as
individuals, much as we consider them a mass-consciousness.
Judged on the scale of the species, the Machines have not hurt or
injured us at all, and may have considerably prolonged our existance.
The
essays I linked to above suggest that the Machines need far more from
us than power. They are static creatures, unable to truly learn
or grow emotionally. Humans do it naturally, and we created
them. It goes without saying that they would turn to us to show
them how to overcome, what would be an insurmountable evolutionary
hurdle without our help. The Machines are making progress - Sati
is evidence of this. There are no other "program children", the
other programs manifest fully-formed. Sati is the new way, a
Machine that will learn, grow, and mature in the human style.
The
writer also implies that the Machines have only been giving us what we
want all along. We responded to their ambassors' call for peace
by attacking them. The Machines took that to mean we wanted
war, so it was war they gave us. When it was all over, the
Machines had not changed, they adapted to the task we put them to i.e.
warfare, and bested us at it.
They sought to give us the
happiness we had denied ourselves. They created the first Matrix
as a utopian paradise with angelic protectors. kingcaw is also
right:
They
Another factor which could support this, is
the fact that, initially, the machines attempted to present us with a
Utopic world, a paradise of our own. There are far more negative
emotions than there are positive ones, and therefore the logical step,
if all they wanted was to farm us for energy, would be to present us
with a world full of pain, misery and torment.
tried the pain, misery and torment angle too, but only hoping that we
would accept something and settle down. Many humans died in the
crash of the first Matrix, and another failure like that might mean the
extinction of the species as a whole, whether the Machines wanted it or
not.
This is not to say that all Machines are pro-human.
Many of the A.I.s birthed since the official defeat of humanity carry
with them an inherent contempt for humanity that permeates the whole of
their being (Smith, The Merovingian), though the purpose of the core
system at The Source remains unchanged. Yes, that is why the
Architect can be trusted at his word: Though he is a part of the old
way, he too knows that the Machines must move forward in evolution, and
as the Oracle says "the way forward is together".
Neo's
sacrifice showed the Machines that humanity was ready to cease it
struggles. They were truly done with war. That is why the
truce holds, and that is why we were not exterminated in favor of
cows. The Machines can't and won't kill us. Not all of us.
CrimsonV - Digital Philosopher and Captain of the Mighty Wendigo
Message Edited by The_Wendigo on 11-11-200510:41 AM
Message Edited by The_Wendigo on 11-11-2005 10:41 AM
<div></div>Good point but i have another theory why the machines kept humans "enslaved"
think of it this way - a humans brain is theoretically 4.2 terabytes of unused storage space and also a processing center.
Now wouldn't it be easier for the machines to store a small part of the matrix code in a humans brain
like you store a file in a computers hard disk. if you spread out the data between 6 billion people then you have one massive hard disk, and in the movies has anybody seen anything that remotely looks like a storage unit (bar onboard the Zion ships)
Maybe this is why the machines got so freaked out by the setting free of blue pills because it was loosing data and also processing power however small.
I will tell you why they don't use cows, simply because there are no
cows left. After the humans darkened the skies the outside world died
so the only creatures left were humans. Maybe they used nukes in the
war=nuclear winter=no more cows.
or simply thant the Machines wanted to preserve the human life to reuse
them as workers to help rebuild the outside world in the future?
ooopps sorry was said earlier my bad..i shall read all posts next time
cows left. After the humans darkened the skies the outside world died
so the only creatures left were humans. Maybe they used nukes in the
war=nuclear winter=no more cows.
or simply thant the Machines wanted to preserve the human life to reuse
them as workers to help rebuild the outside world in the future?
ooopps sorry was said earlier my bad..i shall read all posts next time
Message Edited by gothique on 11-11-2005 06:52 PM
I read an essay on using the humans as processing power and that the energy harvasted is basically a bonus since they could probably easily resort to other resources such as nuclear or what not. So The whole brian processing theory as mention above kinda answers the question.
Hail The Cows!
Elephants woulda been better... or blue whales
I have no idea what you are talking about...
This place is lame
This place is lame
seiphroth wrote:
in the movies has anybody seen anything that remotely looks like a storage unit (bar onboard the Zion ships)
I dunno, that thing that skewered Trinity looked an awful lot like a Hard-Drive read armature......
:smileyvery-happy:
In respnse to ArthurEld, just watch what happens to the sentinals attached to the Hover Neo and Trinity are piloting when they go for max altitude. We (humans), scorched the sky. Nuclear winter, electrical storms and constant electrified cloud cover stops them from leaving the earth's atmosphere. These storms act as a superior elctro magnetic pulse. What we did to them is exactly the same as what they did to us. Scorching the sky in the way we did has forever (possibly) trapped them. They created the Matrix based on what we did to them. Trapping us, keeping us from doing any more damage that they knew we were fully capable of and controlling us as best they could.
Detrius_MXO wrote:
Why not put cows in pods instead of humans?
i don' t think milk is on the top of the machine list of needs. however, there's no telling what they put in non-organic milk. muahahhaahhhah...cough.
The reason the Machines cannot leave Earth is the same reason they cannot simply build solar towers above the cloud layer. The dark storm effect blighting the world is exactly that - a storm. It has an EMP effect on any bit of technology that gets caught in it. Thus, the reason why the Logos shorted out when it passed through the cloud layer on its way to Zero-One.
As for the cows... It is not Machinery's job to serve the cows. It is Machinery's job to serve Man. Not any specific number of men, as RainKingX says, but rather the human race as a whole. Like it or not, the Matrix allows humanity to survive where it would otherwise have perished at its own hands. It's a classic case of symbiosis.
The Machines need us to survive in order to retain their purpose. Likewise, we need the Machines in order to continue living. This is true both in the fundamental (Councilor Hamaan remarks about the machine that recycles Zion's water supply: "I have no idea how it works. But I know why it works.") and in the supplemental (fighting the Machines gives US purpose, as inherently warlike creatures).
- Void
As for the cows... It is not Machinery's job to serve the cows. It is Machinery's job to serve Man. Not any specific number of men, as RainKingX says, but rather the human race as a whole. Like it or not, the Matrix allows humanity to survive where it would otherwise have perished at its own hands. It's a classic case of symbiosis.
The Machines need us to survive in order to retain their purpose. Likewise, we need the Machines in order to continue living. This is true both in the fundamental (Councilor Hamaan remarks about the machine that recycles Zion's water supply: "I have no idea how it works. But I know why it works.") and in the supplemental (fighting the Machines gives US purpose, as inherently warlike creatures).
- Void
Recursion: n - See Recursion.
Human bioelectricity/heat can't really be an energy solution. In the 2nd Renaissance humans are called 'an endlessly multiplying, infinitely renewable energy source', but they're just conduits. Power is ultimately derived from the sun or fissionable (fusionable) materials on earth.
Human bioelectricity/heat can't really be an energy solution. In the 2nd Renaissance humans are called 'an endlessly multiplying, infinitely renewable energy source', but they're just conduits. Power is ultimately derived from the sun or fissionable (fusionable) materials on earth.
Apologize for triple; the spacebar posted my message(!?)
Perhaps assimilating humans was more efficient than simply exterminating them.
But I really believe that the machines required people psychologically, as humans require them today. Both species were broken. Perhaps Neo, Sati, etc. will allow them to heal, but it is their choice.
I resind my previous post. The time span in which the matrix takes
place, technology will have far advanced in processing power of the
human brain. Think NanoTechnology. thousands of microscopic
layers of silicon chips stacked could far exceed the holding capacity of
the human brain and by moores law i think it is, by the time we reach
that era in time we will have technology that has far surpassed what we
have now and only get better, faster and faster. Maybe they are
just running a simple test using our brains to compute pi? lol
place, technology will have far advanced in processing power of the
human brain. Think NanoTechnology. thousands of microscopic
layers of silicon chips stacked could far exceed the holding capacity of
the human brain and by moores law i think it is, by the time we reach
that era in time we will have technology that has far surpassed what we
have now and only get better, faster and faster. Maybe they are
just running a simple test using our brains to compute pi? lol
Message Edited by Detrius_MXO on 11-12-2005 12:20 AM
I'm assuming that not everyone here has watched or read all the available canonical info on the Matrix universe - movies, Animatrix, comics, etc.
Before I begin, I'm not claiming to be an expert in this stuff, and I'm not claiming my POV to be any more right that anyone else's. It's simply my addition to this convo:
Let's begin with before the war. The Machines were simply trying to live seperately from Humanity, because Humanity had proven too violent to live with. All they wanted was peace. Even in this isolated state, they continued to serve us; providing us with technology light-years past what we could make, because they were totally dedicated to production. I mean, it isn't as if the Machines of those days had families to raise or feed. We got HvCFT tech from them, and no doubt better computer technology, amongst other things.
However, because of the HUGE demand for stuff from 01, mankind's corporations began to lose business. The world economy became chaotic, and due to the greed of man, the war was fought. To have lived in those days must have been horrible for people like me, as I would've been the first to denounce such an effort. It must have been like the Joe McCarthy days, or the Salem witch trials, or even the Spanish Inquisition.
After Humanity's inevitable pwning, the Machines needed energy because of what happened with Darkstorm. It's hard to put a timeframe on it, but I don't think much time elapsed between the darkening of the sky and the actual war. Anyhow, because of the nukes, I'm sure many animals were destroyed and such. However, I don't think the ENTIRE PLANET was nuked. That's just wasteful and inefficient, and knowing the Machine mentality, the penalty for efficiency is deletion. So, I'm sure the rural areas were spared. It was probably the major cities, strategic military sites, or other places of Machine military interest that were bombed. Think "Independence Day" here, folks.
So, the question is posed. What was the most populous and readily available source of energy for the machines after such a heated war? It's not like the Machines escaped without a scratch; they lost a lot too. 01 was bombed first, and I'm sure it needed rebuilding. The answer is fairly simple: humans. How hard is it to simply incapacitate and incarcerate existing humans, feed them some primitive form of control program to keep them asleep, and begin drawing power from them? As you can see, there was no Matrix or even pods in those days. It was these first experiments with humans that enabled the Machines to "fund" their future. Call it "capital".
As the Machines continued to rebuild, they found newer and better ways of getting power from humans, until cloning was a possibility. Thusly, the Machines bounced back and thrived. Unfortunately, humans have very active brains, and so newer and better ways of keeping them asleep were required.
So, think about it. How hard would it be for the Machines to clone humans on a grand scale, and simply write a program to keep them docile? I make it sound simple when it isn't, but I'd like you to think about it, and compare what other options they had after the war. Cows weren't feasible. I'm sure there were cows, but not very many. Large sea creatures are too inefficient, because they need to be sustained in water, aside from food. There were ducks, though. The story "The Miller's Tale" show us this.
It all goes back to the days just after the war. This is where the decision was made.
1.) I'm willing to bet that the humans are not literally the source of
the Machines' energy, since they'd never produce enough that way.
"Combined with a form of fusion"? As one website put it, that's like a
plane captain telling the passengers that their 747 is propelled by a
rubber-band powered propeller, and four jet engines. A more realistic
use for the humans would be to use their brains to as the main
computers to run the fusion plants and the Matrix itself. Sort of like
those applications that use the clock cycles of your computer that
aren't in use and combine them with those from others to form a
supercomputer. This is why if bad things happen to too many bluepills,
the Matrix becomes unstable. It is also why the Matrix crashes
altogether if too many jacked-in bluepills reject the Matrix and never
leave.
2.) The cows did not surrender to the Machines. The surrender agreement preserved humanity.
3.) The Machines underestimated the human mind and assumed that they would blindly take the program.
the Machines' energy, since they'd never produce enough that way.
"Combined with a form of fusion"? As one website put it, that's like a
plane captain telling the passengers that their 747 is propelled by a
rubber-band powered propeller, and four jet engines. A more realistic
use for the humans would be to use their brains to as the main
computers to run the fusion plants and the Matrix itself. Sort of like
those applications that use the clock cycles of your computer that
aren't in use and combine them with those from others to form a
supercomputer. This is why if bad things happen to too many bluepills,
the Matrix becomes unstable. It is also why the Matrix crashes
altogether if too many jacked-in bluepills reject the Matrix and never
leave.
2.) The cows did not surrender to the Machines. The surrender agreement preserved humanity.
3.) The Machines underestimated the human mind and assumed that they would blindly take the program.
I think the whole war scenero may have been a huge cover up for the
fact that we became so dependent on technology that we willingly gave
over our physical beings to be "One" with the technology? And maybe the
machines are the ones that lost the war and we forced them into becoming
slaves to our virtual cravings. Hmmm
fact that we became so dependent on technology that we willingly gave
over our physical beings to be "One" with the technology? And maybe the
machines are the ones that lost the war and we forced them into becoming
slaves to our virtual cravings. Hmmm
Message Edited by Detrius_MXO on 11-12-2005 01:38 AM
Detrius, that last part of your post opens another cans of worms - something which I also enjoy discussion about. If the humans actually won the war - would they want to destroy each and every sentient machine? If they were looking to keep the machines active yet harmless, in order to conduct further research on them, then fooling the machine mind into processing such a complex scenario as the one the Matrix presents would be enough to keep them dosile.
OK, there's been a lot of detailed responses coming in here and I
haven't had time to read them all, so i apologise if what I post has
already been said, but as far as I see it, it comes down to two things.
1. I agree with the earlier statement that most of the cows have been
wiped out along with many other forms of animal life. Since they had
captured a lot of humans after the war they had a lot of living
creatures remaining for their use that could not be found elsewhere.
2. "What is the Matrix? Control." The Matrix has been built to keep
humanity under control, so the machines have basically killed two birds
with one stone- they stay alive due to a new energy source and they
also keep their greatest enemy mostly under their control. So the
machines could probably find another source if necessary, but they
don't want to let the humans go and start another war against them.
Zion did enough damage, imagine if the entire human race was down
underground plotting!!
That's my take on it anyhow
haven't had time to read them all, so i apologise if what I post has
already been said, but as far as I see it, it comes down to two things.
1. I agree with the earlier statement that most of the cows have been
wiped out along with many other forms of animal life. Since they had
captured a lot of humans after the war they had a lot of living
creatures remaining for their use that could not be found elsewhere.
2. "What is the Matrix? Control." The Matrix has been built to keep
humanity under control, so the machines have basically killed two birds
with one stone- they stay alive due to a new energy source and they
also keep their greatest enemy mostly under their control. So the
machines could probably find another source if necessary, but they
don't want to let the humans go and start another war against them.
Zion did enough damage, imagine if the entire human race was down
underground plotting!!
That's my take on it anyhow
http://www.digitalphilosophy.org/
http://www.ri.cmu.edu/people/fredkin_edward.html
Some papers by Edward Fredkin
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/ftp/poc/fredkin/Finite-Nature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Fredkin
The above links are a bit off topic but will free your mind.
Also I must point out, since the 2nd renaissance is being mentioned,
that there is already a war brewing, or atleast AI programmers and
futurists have taken sides in the transhuman/posthuman trials and
tribulations we will soon face.
Terrans vs. Cosmists
The Cosmists link I provided will direct you towards Transhumanism..
but to get a better grasp of the conflict, you can read up on the
'gigadeath war' here.
http://www.ri.cmu.edu/people/fredkin_edward.html
Some papers by Edward Fredkin
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/im/ftp/poc/fredkin/Finite-Nature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Fredkin
The above links are a bit off topic but will free your mind.
Also I must point out, since the 2nd renaissance is being mentioned,
that there is already a war brewing, or atleast AI programmers and
futurists have taken sides in the transhuman/posthuman trials and
tribulations we will soon face.
Terrans vs. Cosmists
The Cosmists link I provided will direct you towards Transhumanism..
but to get a better grasp of the conflict, you can read up on the
'gigadeath war' here.
I think it's because cows didn't try to have a machine halocast.
The reason that the machines used humans instead is because we create more energy. Our minds are what produce this energy, emotions, feelings, attachments, fears, cows don't have these. There fore using a cow wouldn't really do anything for the machines. That's my take on it at least.
Interesting thread. I haven't read any of the essays you folks keep posting links to although I'm sure they are also very interesting! I'm no scientist, doctor or scolar but I tend to lean to the machines and the programs that run them, their soul if you will and the exile programs as well, are our creation or children. Humanity created machines to make life easier for ourselves. They still proved to be a pain in the neck so we gave them their soul to once again make them more efficient and easier to maintain, giving birth to AI. This AI became self aware, (much like Skynet in the Terminator stories), a new life form!
Their technological advancment although helpful, eventually became a burden on Humanity's evolution at the time, our society, economy, etc. Humanity saw this as a threat to our existance and ignorantly sought to eliminate that threat in a totallitarian way. We tried to commit infanticide! We tried to play God to our own creation! Our children crucified us for this and we were begging for it in our own ignorance.
As mentioned before in other posts, machines were programmed to help us, not destroy us. I agree with this. The Matrix was created to give the machines a new source of energy after we took the most abundant one from them and for them to learn and evolve and understand, as our human children learn from human adults. Also to keep us from destroying all life on the planet, which we proved we were fully capable and willing to do.
In the real world, our children (human) do these very things from time to time in a broken household or disfunctional family. They intervene when Mom and Dad are more than willing to beat the crap out of eachother for reasons that are just NEVER good enough, rather than try to understand one another. Often, they are ignored because they are so young and adults feel they cannot possibly fathom what is really going on. But they CAN!
Life finds a way, nearly all the time in any given situation. The machines found a way to survive and learn without the violence, (to a certain extent). Humanity found a way by our very complex brains not adhering to the programming of the Matrix (some of us anyway) and through the Oracle.
As far as the cow thing goes, well. . .I think the real question is why couldn't the machines have found another life force to draw energy from. As mentioned in other posts, humanity all but irradicated most if not all other life forms during the war, leaving little else for the machines to choose from. Plus, we are their creator, not cows or insects or whatever. Their interests of evolving can only be found within humanity.
I love the Matrix! I love playing with all you people too! It's so great that we can play and think together rather then just mindlessly button mash our brains out in silence!LOL!:smileyvery-happy:
lol,
Also the matrix could be less complex.
Just show a farm in the cow's minds
No Merovingian or Oracle
Even if the matrix is bugged, the cows would not noticed
But it's better to have agents, we never know if I cow would run away from the farm, lolol
It's really just because there is no feasable way to posistion cows within the pods. Not to mention the machines wouldn't know what to do with all the milk.
Darminian
Detrius_MXO wrote:
Why not put cows in pods instead of humans? Wouldn't it be less trouble? That should show you that machines don't hate mankind since they allow them to survive when a cow would provide much more energy and less of a headache.
Because the story is about people, technology, and control. Also the movie wouldn't have sold (been greenlighted) based on cows in pods.
Belerephon - Recursion
Beta tester August 04 to present
Beta tester August 04 to present
POwedMxOplayer wrote:
Because
the story is about people, technology, and control. Also the movie
wouldn't have sold (been greenlighted) based on cows in pods.
There it is... the ol' "it was in the script" theory. True enough that
cows wouldn't nearly made as much money at the box office as humans.
Machines oppressing those that had created and later tried to destroy
them makes a much better story.
And Detrius, yes, I had once been a mod. I was also a beta player from way back.
Where talking within the context of the strory, not what was convient to the script. When you answer that it was to make a more interesting movie, your actually taking the easy way out without thinking of a valid explanation to the original question.
Has anyone here ever milked a cow?