A New Approach

K, so as noted by others, we will now have one big meeting per server, per org, say every3rd month. As someone whos work schedule is completely random, this means i will never get to attend any of them. As they will be complete lag and spam fests, I could care less. I already hate the stand around and bandy theories about the story atmosphere of Zion meetings ive been to on Syntax. So this is a huge whatever.

Also a big whatever about parties. Prolly wont be able to attend, really dont care. I ,umm, used to have a life, and i find watching my toon stand in a fake club, fake dancing, well, uninteresting. I rather the prefer to go out and shake it in the Real World. I attend some of the parties my friends throw, becasue they are my friends, and the little parties are often fun.

RSI masks- Umm.. again gonna buck the trend here but... I've spent a decent amount of time wortking on my characters RSI. Guess i dont get masking it as that interesting.. cept maybe for RPing or something.

And, RP wise, I think that doing away with Cyph and EPN is bunkus. I don't even like either org, so maybe thats why i liked them being seperate.

Personally, I like the current direction of the storyline. I disliked the cartoony sideshow junk like Anome and the cheat codes, but people who dont think the current storyline is exploring "Matrixy" stuff are missing a few braincells. There have always been big questions behind the Matrix concept, and i feel like we were finally getting towards some answers (albeit at a soap-opera slow pace).

Personally, I liked the regular LE's, it meant i might occasionally make some of them. Sad to say, but unless Rare happens to log in during my hour an evening and hunt me down, I guess yesterdays EPN event will be my last. Too bad, it was actually rather fun.

However, my main thing here is to say

RAREBIT-

I dont think we are losing peoples interest because the storyline is confusing. I think we lose people because the leveling process is BORING, and who wants to play a boring game?

I like your post and especially the parts I put in red.

These splinter orgs have identities. The Prophet dusters vs the Bandana rags . EPN, loyal followers of Neo looking to free the human race at all cost. They are looked on by Zion as reglious fanatics of a dead savior. Zion is too militant and don't rely on fate, prophecies, and messiahs to see them through.

Cypherites, loyalist of the late Cypher. Their hate for zion is too extreme to keep in line with the poised and methodical approach of the Machine organization. They want to put EVERYONE to sleep and kill all who oppose their goal. They're not by the book.

All these orgs lack is a little help from the devs to make them self-sufficient.

Opinionated solutions:

Cyphs are summoned to handle the covert operations. The dirty work that would give Machines a bad name. (PVP/RP).

EPNs... their fate in saviors, honoring the memory of Neo and what he has accomplished is a motivation in it's own. Hell Zion doesn't care about what Neo has done for them anymore. The truce is over the war is back on. Neo was just a moment in time that gave them one shiny hope (The Truce) but even that wasn't good enough.

Yes, yes, and yes.  I couldn't agree with you more, Ingus.  For those that say EPN and CYPHs have no purpose and they are basically the same as Zion and Machines have obviously never been in a hardcore RP EPN or CYPH faction, or aren't interested in those specific aspects that Ingus mentioned.  I thought that EPN going to the no-fly zone was brilliant and much fresher than anything else that has been going on lately.  Kid has always done way more interesting and exciting things compared to Niobe, besides getting herself shot.  So, keep EPN and get rid of Zion. They are soo boring anyway    

I just feel like with EPN/Cyph you have more artistic freedom and its a waste to not tap into that.

The original plan was that EPN/Cyph was just going to be around for a little while and then go away.  But the orgs were a bigger hit than they had anticipated and they couldnt get rid of them in fear of the backlash they would get.  My point is, why is it okay now to get rid of them?  Why take something away that was obviously good for the game?

Phrack wrote:

I see it as a "if you can't do it right, don't do it at all" situation, personally. 

I agree with with this in regard to what rarebit is doing with Cyph/EPN but I wish he wouldn't because of all that EPN and Cyph has done to enhance the experience of MxO for myself and I know a lot of other players as well. I am glad our tags are not being stripped from us.  That would have been a game-ender for me.  I know it isn't the end of EPN and Cyphs but I think dropping their stories altogether is going to hurt the game, seriously.  The side stories of EPN and Cyphs make the slow pace of the main story bearable.  I don't foresee the main story picking up much pace; maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe I'm just cynical but it sounds like they are cutting back but trying to dress it up so it doesn't seem that way.

Yes, it does seem that way.  We will just have to wait and see what content we do end up getting and see if it feels equal to what we had.  If the changes don't feel equivalent or that they are just dressed up, it will be hard to justify spending $192 a year on it.

I am trying to be open-minded about this but it is difficult when one of the main reasons I play is being taken away. ie live events.  If there are random live events like the monolith days, then running into one might be a more rewarding experience than what we have now, but with RL schedules, it is nice to know when things are.

When you miss all the live events, you feel like you are missing out on what the primary part of the game is and that you are wasting your money, which is why my brother quit.  And he quit when there were cinematics still around.   So I hope that when there are the occasional live events that there might be clues or hints to when they are, sorta like the poetry reading info that was listed in the Sentinel and when we went, we found morpheus.

Like I said, I will be open-minded and wait to see what happens.  I am actually suprised to see so many in favor of these changes.

Well this all sounds good to me.

I mean, no crits, ok, but with the new quest lines.  A new quest with new items to get hold off opens up alot more playing time then one crit a week.

No daily live events, well the current format for them was getting a bit stale anyway.  Hopefully this means that those events we do have are 1) not just filler and 2) better as a whole.

I'm not so worried about org meeting and parties but if you don't like them, don't go to them.

The Gang boss masks are cool and I'm sure will show up alot in screens/videos, particularly for RP purposes and especially those kind of gangs that can't be recreated with player clothes.

Oh ya, just thought of this, does that mean that the Sentinel newspaper is gone too since it is run by LESIG or what is the deal with that? Sorry if it was brought up before...

Anyone else speculating those organization rewards for the new crit mission system will be the long-awaited organization abilities? I might start grinding Morraeon's Merv rep just for that, even though I was planning to make her an experimental character and see if I couldn't level her by just running Archive Missions and killing gang spawn, and not touching the regular missions...

MatrixRefugee wrote:

Anyone else speculating those organization rewards for the new crit mission system will be the long-awaited organization abilities? I might start grinding Morraeon's Merv rep just for that, even though I was planning to make her an experimental character and see if I couldn't level her by just running Archive Missions and killing gang spawn, and not touching the regular missions...

VERY VERY VERY VERY, infentsimally, small chance that they are org abilities since rarebit has said this countless times. "There will be no org abilities they give too much reason for a player to be a specific org for a specific load out." not a direct quote just summing it up.

Those RSI disguises will have a special benefit for vista users.  The face and hand lighting problem shouldn't occur on those models.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Hydrazine wrote:

FilthyHarry wrote:

Maybe I'm just cynical but it sounds like they are cutting back but trying to dress it up so it doesn't seem that way.

Yes, it does seem that way.  We will just have to wait and see what content we do end up getting and see if it feels equal to what we had.  If the changes don't feel equivalent or that they are just dressed up, it will be hard to justify spending $192 a year on it.

I am trying to be open-minded about this but it is difficult when one of the main reasons I play is being taken away. ie live events.  If there are random live events like the monolith days, then running into one might be a more rewarding experience than what we have now, but with RL schedules, it is nice to know when things are.

When you miss all the live events, you feel like you are missing out on what the primary part of the game is and that you are wasting your money, which is why my brother quit.  And he quit when there were cinematics still around.   So I hope that when there are the occasional live events that there might be clues or hints to when they are, sorta like the poetry reading info that was listed in the Sentinel and when we went, we found morpheus.

Like I said, I will be open-minded and wait to see what happens.  I am actually suprised to see so many in favor of these changes.

I think its reflexive appreciation, which is well-deserved for Rare, but if everyone blindly applauds everything he does then it creates a distortion of what he thinks everybody really wants.  The opposite is true too, its just as ridiculous to bash and threaten to leave the game over ervything.  Its better to use constructive criticism when warranted or when we warn about the game going in the wrong direction.

Take for example Rare saying players "love to farm for the latest and greatest gear."  Sure, some do, but is that what we really want to build this game around?  (And don't flame me for being lazy, I can say this after individually farming 108 shurikens, 108 marbles, and 120 SSR gums).

Think it through.  What makes this mmo unique, besides the tight-knit community?  It is a continuous and evolving story.  If that goes out the window, then what?  We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and a few bits of flair like increased FX times and RSI capture tools shoudn't cover up abandonment of an evolving storyline, if indeed that's whats really going on here (which none of us know yet).

I agree I for one didn't give some of the ideas Im in favor of a fair shot with that said however I really hope Rarebit gives us detailed information on not only why he decided to scrap these organizations on both a logistical level and storyline one and what existing underground members can expect.

Although some may have not enjoyed being a Cypherite alot of us still do and we deserve nothing less than knowing exactly why we have been taken out. Simply saying "I couldn't do you justice" is not a good enough explination. You dont just decide after two years that your going to quit doing something because you dont do it justice.

The EPN and Cypherite playerbase that exist within the game need to know what we can expect when paying our subscriptions. Now obviously we wont get quests or meetings for that matter but I am wanting to know as well as others I think if and when these characters such as Cryptos with his Override codes Michaels revelations in the No Fly Zone and other plot points come up what kind of treatment and inclusion we can expect.

Frankly we also need some clarification on wether or not existing plot points area going to be dropped. I just read something from someone in the What are you going to do now? thread who was under the impression the frags that the Oracle gave out before she died are going to be a dead end plot point which are dropped totally.

Underground and original status can mean alot of things and is a pretty broad brush.

It can mean we simply will get nothing and not be recognized in any capacity. It will mean that we will be recognized during the occasional live event IF it calls for it. It could mean that if Rarebits idea of a good plot turning event does not involve a Cypherite or EPN player that he will simply not service us or give us content whatsoever. It could mean  that we still have things to look forward to and its simply just a complete shift in regards to the way our stories will be told which honestly I think alot of us can agree may be a good thing.

However the one thing we need is crystal clarity detailed explinations in all facets and him to level with us past simply saying he cant do us justice. I think the least were owed is that after two years of dedication to a organization that never even had the same content depth to begin with as the three organizations is to know how why when and where it was decided that were not worth keeping around in MxO.

I'm going to try to keep this brief. I will have much more to say about the topics touched on here once this initial foray has been digested and thoroughly chewed over.

Starting with subchapter 11.3, the content that you will receive in our regular six-week updates will be changing.

For most of this year, updates have consisted of three main items: 1) weekly critical missions, 2) a replayable "quest," and 3) daily live events.

This is going to change to: 1) a new cinematic, 2) quests with missions, activities, and rewards for each organization, based on the latest advancement of the story seen in the cinematic, and 3) an organization-wide meeting announced well in advance so that as many members as possible will be able to attend.

Other, related changes will be taking place as well:

- No more colored "EPN" or "CYPH" faction tags will be offered. Existing factions with those tags will keep them.

- Archive reward items, such as the War Sword and Seraphic Vision, will have their timer extended to five minutes, and can be reactivated thirty seconds afterwards.

- Completing a subchapter's worth of a single organization's archived critical missions (except for the very short subchapter 1.1) will reward an IS Booster item.

- Neighborhood street gang bosses will have a 10% chance of dropping a reusable "RSI Capture" tool that will allow the player to assume that NPC's appearance indefinitely.

- Organization "liaison officer" positions, played by LESIG members, will no longer exist. Some LESIG members will probably choose to keep their established characters, while others may recycle them for use in other events and activities.

- We'll be throwing a game-wide party in a low-level-friendly area on one server each update period, announced well in advance.

I'm going to try to keep this brief. I will have much more to say about the topics touched on here once this initial foray has been digested and thoroughly chewed over.

I will have, as I said, much more to say in relation to these changes, and I hope to be able to describe and discuss them with you at length once they've been widely read and assimilated. Please remember that, although we don't require you to agree with everything that is posted by us or your fellow players in these discussions, we do require that any discussion you conduct is done in a civil fashion.

Okay, over to you.

This is more a question/suggestion to Rarebit. Instead of knocking yourself out drawing cinematics wouldn't it be easier to just film cinematics in game? I am not sure if Aquatium did something like that for the Wireframe man cinematic but it did look just as good as the old cinematics. I'm more than sure any of the more film saavy players would be more than willing to give you a hand there either as extras or as film crew.

CrimsonKiller01 wrote:

This is more a question/suggestion to Rarebit. Instead of knocking yourself out drawing cinematics wouldn't it be easier to just film cinematics in game? I am not sure if Aquatium did something like that for the Wireframe man cinematic but it did look just as good as the old cinematics. I'm more than sure any of the more film saavy players would be more than willing to give you a hand there either as extras or as film crew.

Yea I offered help and got this responce...

I don't really anticipate sharing out the work on cinematics, for a number of reasons (legal, leaks, management issues, stylistic differences). I'm pretty sure that mine will be rougher--both stylistically and technically--than your example, but it's still a large unknown for me so I'll just have to find out how it goes. - Rarebit

I like the idea of the permenant RSI as a exile, who wants to start a faction based around an exile gang?

I dont think there is much i could say that hasnt already been said.

Without doubt there are some very positive steps and some negative steps.

I look forward to the future of the game now.

I dont think there is much i could say that hasnt already been said.

Without doubt there are some very positive steps and some negative steps.

I look forward to the future of the game now.

Kawari wrote:

invisible*

Obviously, what he said is.

the characters should no longer be invisible on buddy lists.

*Obviously*

It's called a typo, but anyways I still didn't get an answer to my question. Are you saying that you should be able to know when they are on or that you should be able to /t them. If your talking about /t I think that's a bad idea considering your talking about having almost every player at the event sending rare a tell every five minutes. If your talking about them just showing up on your buddy list in general I think that would be a pretty good idea and give most players a heads up on what going on.

I look forward to the future of the game now.

Me too! But there has always been great stuff to look forward to I have always thought! :D

It does feel like one door closing which is always going to have sad feelings that come with it, but at the same time another door is opening :)

I will sure miss the critical missions and reading about what happens in the every day events, but I am excited to see all of the new things mentioned! I will always love my Matrix no matter what way it comes in, it's the only one we've got after all! :)

CrimsonKiller01 wrote:

This is more a question/suggestion to Rarebit. Instead of knocking yourself out drawing cinematics wouldn't it be easier to just film cinematics in game? I am not sure if Aquatium did something like that for the Wireframe man cinematic but it did look just as good as the old cinematics. I'm more than sure any of the more film saavy players would be more than willing to give you a hand there either as extras or as film crew.

Yeah i thought about this when i noticed the cinematics had changed. When they changed I just stopped watching them. Ingame looks sweet, better than drawings. If players can make really good vids, I'm sure Rare could do better with his Dev powers

odj wrote:

CrimsonKiller01 wrote:

This is more a question/suggestion to Rarebit. Instead of knocking yourself out drawing cinematics wouldn't it be easier to just film cinematics in game? I am not sure if Aquatium did something like that for the Wireframe man cinematic but it did look just as good as the old cinematics. I'm more than sure any of the more film saavy players would be more than willing to give you a hand there either as extras or as film crew.

Yea I offered help and got this responce...

I don't really anticipate sharing out the work on cinematics, for a number of reasons (legal, leaks, management issues, stylistic differences). I'm pretty sure that mine will be rougher--both stylistically and technically--than your example, but it's still a large unknown for me so I'll just have to find out how it goes. - Rarebit

That's disappointing, being that that seems like a very good animation style (though honestly, I don't know how much time it took you to produce).

Hi there!

First: Like everyone else in this moment I can only say that everything is uncertain. Many things will change, but exactly how these changes will impact remains to be seen. Ultimately, noone can deny, that the removal of existing possibilities always is negative, no matter how it is justified and whether it is offset. It will be less than before.
For me, as European,it appears to be much better than for others maybe. Because of the time difference I almost missed all live events. Due to that I have lost the survey of the very complex story of the game. An improvement is the return of Cinematics. In opposite to long storytelling texts - that are not written in my native language - the Cinematics give a good overview and show the atmosphere better. On daily events, which I almost never attended, I can personally renounce. Announced or always accessible story seems to me better. It is also incredibly difficult work to tell a really interesting story every single day in a consistently good quality. It consumes a lot of ideas too quickly. Man burns out. The new way seems feasible.
Very, very sad is that the LESIG team disappears, I think. I hope that many of the Liaison Officers and their knowledge about gameplay and community will remain, even if they will lose their special status within the game without the official support. New players probably wont recognize tham as something special anymore. Perhaps you should consider to form Liaison Offzier-Factions - perhaps with the matching tag - before it is too late.
With the outbreak of the war the need for hardliners like Cypherites and EPN greatly diminished. But yes, they are still a nice feature. However, the players have the possibility to create their own groups. Since the recent departure from Merovinger and focus the commands of the Mistress the "Phalanx Persephone" already became "Phalanx Persephone PP". Okay, we were discouraged by an official body to form factions with its own acronyms because of possible confusion and difficulties with official TAGs, but now it is even suggested by Rarebit ...

Finally, there remains the question of the Spawn-tool of the Liaisons. For RPG you need opponents. I really hope you got an appropriate replacement for it. That brings the fun into role-playing.

Best wishes,

Chimaere

Phalanx Persephone PP

Vector

Criingey wrote:

I look forward to the future of the game now.

I will sure miss the critical missions

CrimsonKiller01 wrote:

This is more a question/suggestion to Rarebit. Instead of knocking yourself out drawing cinematics wouldn't it be easier to just film cinematics in game? I am not sure if Aquatium did something like that for the Wireframe man cinematic but it did look just as good as the old cinematics. I'm more than sure any of the more film saavy players would be more than willing to give you a hand there either as extras or as film crew.

Yea I offered help and got this responce...

I don't really anticipate sharing out the work on cinematics, for a number of reasons (legal, leaks, management issues, stylistic differences). I'm pretty sure that mine will be rougher--both stylistically and technically--than your example, but it's still a large unknown for me so I'll just have to find out how it goes. - Rarebit

Grace of Darkness wrote:

Kawari wrote:

invisible*

Obviously, what he said is.

the characters should no longer be invisible on buddy lists.

*Obviously*

It's called a typo, but anyways I still didn't get an answer to my question. Are you saying that you should be able to know when they are on or that you should be able to /t them. If your talking about /t I think that's a bad idea considering your talking about having almost every player at the event sending rare a tell every five minutes. If your talking about them just showing up on your buddy list in general I think that would be a pretty good idea and give most players a heads up on what going on.

There is an option in chat to not accept tells from anyone who isn't on your buddy list.

Its already been stated that Rare is watching this thread and will respond soon.  I think with such alot of information to take in terms of response from the community its bound to take some time to go through and find generic response that will answer all our questions as best he can.

I say relax, wait and see. 

Also i got thinking.  The cinematics.  Are they going to be back dated from the point where they left off (eventually) or are they just going to start from when the new update starts?  It would be good to have the cinematics running concurrently, instead of leaving a gap in the story.

Will there be any events occuring during the Halloween event like the previous years, Rarebit?

As one of the players enjoying the storyline, I think most of these changes are good.

It's sad no more colored tag will be added. But I can accept this change as EPN members are allowed to join Zion meetings.

What I am expecting the most is organization meeting. Under the current system, new players may have a difficulty to find team mates. Meetings help new players to find mission team members. People in factions also get a good opportunity for recruiting.

What I am concerning the most is event  time. I hope event start times vary. As you know, my Asian Pacific (AU/NZ) timezone is the worst timezone for MxO. Though I know most players are living US or EU, I want some small opportunities to join the events.  I hope some are held around 10 or 11 AM MCT for EU players (Players in AU timezone can join if they get up early in the morning). I think various event times can reduce lags and server crashes caused by a large population.

Anyway, I always appreciate the devs' work. I cannot wait the update.

I would to say I agree, all Rare has said is that the event structure is changing and as a result the tags are no longer going to be needed as much. So they've cut their distribution. Which fits in with the removal of liasion officers. Both orgs will still exist as part of the story (though to what degree the continuing story will obviously dictate), events will still happen and those remaining tags will likely still matter. It just won't be as formalised as before.

Basically whats happened for everyone in regards to live events is the previous format of one critical event per org (with EPN and Cyph LOs able to jump in and 'claim' Mach and Zion events as their own respectively) and 2 random events per week is changing to 'whenever the story needs one'.

I can, like some, kind of understand the logistical reason for dropping the Cyph and EPN groups (though why the CSRs can't continue to provide factions with tags is beyond me - it's hardly a challenging task, is it?), but we need a storyline reason for the change.

And it is a change. Sure, maybe Veil and the Kid aren't disappearing or being killed off (more's the pity) and the organisations are sticking around, but things will be different. Suddenly EPNs can go to Zion meetings, Cypherites can go to Machinist meetings. Why? Why is that suddenly okay? Why are the extremist groups suddenly working so closely with their parent organisations? Why are the Cypherites taking orders from Gray directly now?

There has to be a reason. But all we can infer from what Rarebit's said so far is that there isn't a reason in the storyline, just the technical reasons he's already given. That's... that's just bad.

Procurator wrote:

I can, like some, kind of understand the logistical reason for dropping the Cyph and EPN groups (though why the CSRs can't continue to provide factions with tags is beyond me - it's hardly a challenging task, is it?), but we need a storyline reason for the change.

The removal of LO's, except for the few who did a really good job, means less LO based drama and having certain players with more power which will be redundant in the new way of things. One of their tasks were to validate and send of requests for CSR's to amend the faction names with appropriate tags (I apologise for teaching how to suck eggs, I know you know how it works). Without a LO to do this it would fall upon regular players contacting to CSR's which would open up a big can of worms considering that the CSR's have, most likely, no idea what is going on other than following the requests of listed individuals. Last thing I want to see is a well known EPN or Cyph faction running around with the opposite number's tag on 'just for lulz' or have every new Tom, **Richard** or Sally who joins, thinks the tags are cool, requests having them only to drop them a few days later etc... Basically through LO's the tag requests had some form of order to them as well as LO verification as to how genuine the request is.

Procurator wrote:

And it is a change. Sure, maybe Veil and the Kid aren't disappearing or being killed off (more's the pity) and the organisations are sticking around, but things will be different. Suddenly EPNs can go to Zion meetings, Cypherites can go to Machinist meetings. Why? Why is that suddenly okay? Why are the extremist groups suddenly working so closely with their parent organisations? Why are the Cypherites taking orders from Gray directly now?

You are quite right, it is a change with respect to LE's, but thats really where it has changed. As stated, LE's were really the only thing, other then the tags, which supported a seperate org. In reality Cyphs/Mechs or Zion/EPN could turn up to each others events if they wanted (save for when meetings were held in Org constructs) and participate, even if they weren't welcome.

I agree that some mention as to why should be stated but that should be stated in the story and not stated beforehand. At the moment they're still seperate for a few days and it's only because Rare decided (quite rightly imo) to let everyone know of the change beforehand that we're not gonna come across the change blindly (which although more realistic, would probably create much more dramah)

Procurator wrote:

There has to be a reason. But all we can infer from what Rarebit's said so far is that there isn't a reason in the storyline, just the technical reasons he's already given. That's... that's just bad.

As I said, I agree, but just because he hasn't stated that there will be a reason in the storyline, doesn't mean that there won't be one. I have to assume that there will be, perhaps not explained in full straight away, but something that will be explained. Hopefully it won't be a weak explanation either.

Vinia wrote:

Procurator wrote:

There has to be a reason. But all we can infer from what Rarebit's said so far is that there isn't a reason in the storyline, just the technical reasons he's already given. That's... that's just bad.

As I said, I agree, but just because he hasn't stated that there will be a reason in the storyline, doesn't mean that there won't be one. I have to assume that there will be, perhaps not explained in full straight away, but something that will be explained. Hopefully it won't be a weak explanation either.

This is all I'm hoping for, that's all. A reason or explanation in the storyline.

I was hoping the CSRs would have the common sense to do a modest bit of digging before granting requests, but, having thought about it for a bit, I realised who I'm talking about. After all, why would Star Wars Galaxies players such as ourselves want this 'Cyph' tag thing?

And I know Rarebit hasn't given a storyline reason yet, but the difference between our opinions is based on the belief that he's keeping the storyline reason a secret. You hope he's going to reveal one, whereas I think that because he hasn't said 'yes, there is a storyline reason, but I'm not telling you what it is' he doesn't have one.

Call me pessimistic.

Procurator wrote:

And I know Rarebit hasn't given a storyline reason yet, but the difference between our opinions is based on the belief that he's keeping the storyline reason a secret. You hope he's going to reveal one, whereas I think that because he hasn't said 'yes, there is a storyline reason, but I'm not telling you what it is' he doesn't have one.

Call me pessimistic.

I'm willing to give Rarebit more credit and assume he has a valid storyline explanation for this. I hope...

*crosses fingers along with the rest of the Cyphs*

Yes indeed, we can but hope...

...impatiently.

Procurator wrote:

Suddenly EPNs can go to Zion meetings, Cypherites can go to Machinist meetings. Why? 

This has always been able to happen, org locks dont take tags into account.

Why are the extremist groups suddenly working so closely with their parent organisations?

As far as I could tell, this has already been happening (EPN and Zion characters have been standing side by side in crits for a while now). Same with the Mechs and Cyphs, bar an obvious distain for eachother (though nowhere has Rare said this will change, thats still very much evident as part of the story and none of the upcoming design changes suggest this will suddenly flip 180 overnight, or at all. The only thing thats 'changing' is how live events are handled, not characters/players emotional stances.)

Why are the Cypherites taking orders from Gray directly now?

Where has Rare said this is the case or will be happening in the future?

But yeah, ultimately this returns us to the main point of not overreacting and seeing how things go.

Until recently, any Cypherites that attended a Machinist meeting were kicked out, at least on Syntax. Don't know about Machinists in Cypherite meetings, though. I only snuck into one, and I left before the LET character appeared.

There's been co-operation between the sub-orgs and their parents for some time (e.g. Machinists going to Cryptos to talk to the Morpheus sim), but the impending changes suggest working far closer than that.

What I meant by taking orders from Gray was that Cypherites will now officially be taking the Machinist missions. I know Cyph players have been doing those missions before now, but it was never IC: the Machine missions were undeniably taylored only for Machinists, never Cypherites, and I think Zion missions were the same. With Rare dissolving Cypherites and EPN as player orgs, it sounds to me like those players will now be taking their parents orgs' missions IC now. I could be wrong, though. We'll know if the operator stops criticising Cypherites and we stop going to Cryptos for info and having Veil show up to say something stupid.

Procurator wrote:

What I meant by taking orders from Gray was that Cypherites will now officially be taking the Machinist missions. I know Cyph players have been doing those missions before now, but it was never IC: the Machine missions were undeniably taylored only for Machinists, never Cypherites, and I think Zion missions were the same. With Rare dissolving Cypherites and EPN as player orgs, it sounds to me like those players will now be taking their parents orgs' missions IC now. I could be wrong, though. We'll know if the operator stops criticising Cypherites and we stop going to Cryptos for info and having Veil show up to say something stupid.

Oh, I gets ya. Don't see any reason to think thats gonna happen, but who knows. Only the Oracle. Oh and Rarebit.

Everyone who's posted in this asking for more clarification is willing to wait and I do believe trust Rare to do a good job with whatever it is he has planned. As I said earlier everything else in this basket of ideas looks good so why shouldn't this one.

The problem is that those of us who have been members of EPN and CYPH for two years and in some people cases even longer are basicly being shown nothing for their dedication and work they put forward. Put yourselves in our shoes, change the situation that it was Zion and the Machines that were suddenly going underground and the story had simply made you out to of disappeared and you are being told that the orgs are no longer going to be written to cater to the people who choose to be within them but simply run in the back ground. Yeah you have a tag that says your "Zion/Machine" but what good is it if you are not able to support or help that org?

Those of us that stay within EPN and CYPH are basicly left in that position. All we can do is pretend we are apart of the org. Some people in the orgs are fine with this and are all ready I'm sure planning player run events for these orgs. Some of us though are not content with just player event and pay 15 a month so that they can experience the part of the story their tag says they are dedicated to.

Someone said that there was no difference between the orgs after the truce. Incorrect. While every org was focused on the same point the way they went about things was different. Zion took interest in one of its former soldiers suddenly appearing in the Matrix while EPN went into the no fly zone. Zion took a defensive stance in the war while EPN took the offencive. The Machines do everything for the system while the cyphs only for themselves.