The new patch that was introduced last night appears to have been a major step forward in the PvE balance department. Even-conned enemies are just about right, and enemies of one or two levels higher, especially two and three-chevron NPCs present just enough of a challenge to keep me on my toes.
I ran a mission on Hard earlier and faced 4 level 51 enemies all at once: two one-chevron, one two-chevron, and one three-chevron. I got shot up pretty badly, but thanks to the changes in damage resistance, I made it through just fine, having to use a Health Pill 5.0 for insurance. Most fun I've had in a mission for a while!
Yeah it is much better. Specials are landing a lot more too. Im still getting hit alot but level 48s in creston only do about 18 dmg now so its no big deal. Things are looking good so far.
Renesis13B wrote: Yeah it is much better. Specials are landing a lot more too. Im still getting hit alot but level 48s in creston only do about 18 dmg now so its no big deal. Things are looking good so far.
Agreed. I'm very happy with the changes in the way damage resistance works now. It allows us to spread out our resistances more evenly if we wanted to, but it also gives us the option to focus on one resistance, such as Ballistic, so that we're very resilient against a certain type of attack.
It'll be interesting to see what kind of tactics and the theories behind them will be used in PvP.
Glad to hear it's in the right direction! I'm kind of thinking it might be just a tad too easy now, but the cool thing is that now the new system is in, it's easy to tweak one number in one file and get sweeping, and predictable, changes throughout the entire range of PvE.
Oh and I'd be interested in hearing if people can take on Pandora's boxes right now and how tough they are... when I get back in on Tuesday, maybe I can email out a few boxes if people are interested
I did the pbox 3 gps mission with a duelist build and its definately not easy. With 181 bdr im taking less than 10 dmg per free fire hit but with 20+ npcs firing at me I take a lot of damage. I did kill about 3 or 4 level 47's (1 and 2 chevrons) before I had to flee the mission area. Considering you can solo this mission on the live server and kill everything in about 4 mins I think its more balanced now. I think it would take a small team of 50's to get through it now.
Yea I agree just a bit easy...but this coming from someone who wants to see a lot more challenging NPCs at end game. I actually liked the difficulty pre-update 5 or even harder. Sure I like feeling like a badass...but I don't want to feel like "ok i'm king of the world...what do I do now?" The greatest reward comes from the greatest adversity.
I'm taking about 20 damage from level 48s and around 25 from 50 and 51s. If you want to shoot me a box or anything else you would like testest I'd be more then happy to give my feedback.
Ok I just soloed the pbox 3 gps mission using a level 50 duelist build. I was able to kill the andeluvian before the mission expired (barely..it expired before I could complete the mission) but it took some time since I had to heal up in the lobby after 3 or 4 kills. I think you should leave the balance the way it is now. Combat is fun again and not tedious and frustrating like it was before.
Renesis13B wrote: Ok I just soloed the pbox 3 gps mission using a level 50 duelist build. I was able to kill the andeluvian before the mission expired (barely..it expired before I could complete the mission) but it took some time since I had to heal up in the lobby after 3 or 4 kills. I think you should leave the balance the way it is now. Combat is fun again and not tedious and frustrating like it was before.
Totally agree. Combat is fun again. We can feel like total badasses, but still be presented a challenge when we want to be. I say leave it as it is. Hard missions are challenging enough to keep you on your toes, but not too tough to ever be forced into teaming if you know what you're doing.
Similarly, Pandora's Box missions are just about right. These things are meant to be done as a team anyways. I'm also getting shot up a lot, so maybe Ballistic Defense isn't working as it should? With Hyper-Dodge on, shouldn't we not be getting shot as often?
Your going to get shot a lot. Make sure your ballistic damage resistance is high and you should be fine. Just for fun I went to Zero One and tried to solo the Taskmaster. I landed alot but I was only doing like 24 dmg and he would regen his health quickly. It would take a full team to any serious damage to him now.
Yup make it too much of a "challenge" at end game and people in general are not going to enjoy it. But for those that do want the extra challenge perhaps after CR2 goes live we could have extra difficulty settings added to the mission systems?
I think as far as endgame challenges go, it'd be interesting to see how the Pandora's Box missions will go. HCFrog said that he'll be mailing out some boxes on Tuesday, so if you all want to group up on Tuesday night or something and take a whack at those boxes, we can get a feel for what that endgame content will be like with the new system.
As for other endgame challenges, it'd be nice to see an exile hideout or a part of Downtown with higher-level mobs, maybe somewhere in the range of level 55.
HCFrog wrote: Glad to hear it's in the right direction! I'm kind of thinking it might be just a tad too easy now, but the cool thing is that now the new system is in, it's easy to tweak one number in one file and get sweeping, and predictable, changes throughout the entire range of PvE.
Oh and I'd be interested in hearing if people can take on Pandora's boxes right now and how tough they are... when I get back in on Tuesday, maybe I can email out a few boxes if people are interested
Ok I have a PB 4 in my inventory now. I would be happy to try it with some help. Anyone that is interested in helping out send tell in game or a Message on the forums. Lets see what we can do against the angels. :robotmad:
Message Edited by xDarkDragoNx on 02-18-200610:50 PM
HCFrog wrote: Glad to hear it's in the right direction! I'm kind of thinking it might be just a tad too easy now, but the cool thing is that now the new system is in, it's easy to tweak one number in one file and get sweeping, and predictable, changes throughout the entire range of PvE.
Yes, too easy. I can run missions on hard, and go straight through loosing at most 1/4 health. As a level 38, I can kill level 39 one chevron with 3 hits (and they don't even touch me), two chevron take 3-4 hits (maybe hitting me once), and 3 chevron with about 6 hits (they hit me about as many times, but only for about 30-50 dmg).
The only problem I had was with Dire Lupines. Their special attacks seem to not be adjusted yet. Arm Throw did 1600 dmg to me, and Pounce did 2866!! Now I only have 2000 HP (2111 with buffs) so this is a little strong, even for a special!
Seems the general concenous is that they're a tad too easy but still a great leap forward in terms of balance, gratz devs!
Personally, I think it's fine the way it is. We just need more endgame challenges. We haven't even had the opportunity to try out Pandora's Box. Plus, I just tried a run through the Creston Heights Museum and it was very challenging. Definitely requires a team effort now.
No its NOT too easy! Its perfect! I had my lvl 45 in Industry square and was killing lvl 41's. In live they are NO threat at all. Anything that cons blue and under never hits me in free fire. Now they almost ALWAYS hit me! They do very little damage but with 5 of them shooting thier SMGs constantly I took out two with my Rifleman loadout and then had to flee the others to regen. GREAT WORK!
Please leave it like it is! I tried to solo Gargoyale in Widows Moor. I can do it in Live. Its not easy but I can. In QA I cant. Thats how it should be right?
I think the close combat is a little tooo easy. but the free fire attack is wasy to easy. I fighted some NPC's that were two levels below me and they only did 1 point damage every time they hit me, untill we went into close combat then it was like normal. They should be a little harder.
I also think that the bug in which there is no visable weapons shooting, in the NPC's or my hands but we are doing a good simulation of it. like we have invisable guns. But it only happens sometimes, or mostly with the 88eightballs gang and not in the others.
In dannah Hieghts I went to fight Some NPC's and the ones that moved out of there spawning range to join into the fight wouldn't let me engage close combat with themm right off the back. I had to run away further and get them to follow me, then it would engage. Yes I did /bug everything!!!!
One more thing that I noticed was when I was missioning, my reputation never changed it stayed the same. But I think that is just a bug from /copy char on to the test server for that bug. but I figured that i would let you know any ways.
At first i thought the new settings are too easy. I did some farming in Creston, Industry Square and the Campus and it was a difference like night and day to the setting before. But then i did a critical mission and i had a lvl 51 devcon 3 agent as final mob and i was glad there was no other mob freefireing me around.
Keep this setting for a while. Maybe some finetuning somewhen. But generally i like it.
No its NOT too easy! Its perfect! I had my lvl 45 in Industry square and was killing lvl 41's. In live they are NO threat at all. Anything that cons blue and under never hits me in free fire. Now they almost ALWAYS hit me! They do very little damage but with 5 of them shooting thier SMGs constantly I took out two with my Rifleman loadout and then had to flee the others to regen. GREAT WORK!
Please leave it like it is! I tried to solo Gargoyale in Widows Moor. I can do it in Live. Its not easy but I can. In QA I cant. Thats how it should be right?
It's no longer about if they hit you or not, it's how much damage you do and how much damage they do. Even if they are 10 levels below you they are going to hit. What we are trying to balance now is how much damage they give and how much they take (all about resistance)
As far as Creston Museum...it really wasn't to difficult as an MA and as a gunman piece of cake. I'm glad some people agree with me that we need a challenging neighborhood for us 50's that dont like to just blow through NPCs with no concern in the world. Give us a challenge! That's going to be my next sig...
Sure, throw me a box 4 if you've got any more floating around. And if you can get my seraphim shoes and prison mastery device working again ... even better
**bleep**, thinking about it, Tigers Gi and Prison Mastery device and going to be VERY important in the new game. They both buff damage resistance ...
TBH i feel the damage resistence when you are hit is actually a bit too high now, however I still feel the frequency at which lower levels are hitting is too high. The movies showed redpills dodging bullets not taking hits and shrugging them off. ATM I would say the relative effectiveness of npc's is about right but the method that is achieved is inconsistent and less beleiveble than using dodge to give the same result....
the new settings are too easy for the higher level mobs. I ran assassin through creston, while some abilities seemed bugged, the most damage I took was 15 out of combat per npc shot, and 73 in combat. Hyperdodge seems to do nothing again, just like in live now. Same ratio of hits, whether used or not, and damage wasnt lowered, stayed 15. The problem still is, high level content, besides pb, all that is needed on those are more/all ma's, what else ya got to test this on?
RockyB wrote: Sure, throw me a box 4 if you've got any more floating around. And if you can get my seraphim shoes and prison mastery device working again ... even better
**bleep**, thinking about it, Tigers Gi and Prison Mastery device and going to be VERY important in the new game. They both buff damage resistance ...
I have a Box 4 about 10 of us should try to take this thing down in the next few days.
Freak3r wrote: the new settings are too easy for the higher level mobs. I ran assassin through creston, while some abilities seemed bugged, the most damage I took was 15 out of combat per npc shot, and 73 in combat. Hyperdodge seems to do nothing again, just like in live now. Same ratio of hits, whether used or not, and damage wasnt lowered, stayed 15. The problem still is, high level content, besides pb, all that is needed on those are more/all ma's, what else ya got to test this on?
Not sure why you dont think hyperdoge works in live but it does exactly what it says it does. Hyperdodge works on ep also its just our rolls are so random its hard to notice its effect. Hyperdodge on ep was never meant to stop you from getting hit...it just lowers the chance. With CR 2 you will get shot by free fire no matter how hard you try to stop it.
Everyone wants content but making npcs harder isnt exactly what I call "content". Its still the same old missions we have all done thousands of times. As far as mobs go do you guys really want to fight difficult mobs all day with little to no reward and call this content? I think we deserve a little better than that.
Freak3r wrote: the new settings are too easy for the higher level mobs. I ran assassin through creston, while some abilities seemed bugged, the most damage I took was 15 out of combat per npc shot, and 73 in combat. Hyperdodge seems to do nothing again, just like in live now. Same ratio of hits, whether used or not, and damage wasnt lowered, stayed 15. The problem still is, high level content, besides pb, all that is needed on those are more/all ma's, what else ya got to test this on?
Not sure why you dont think hyperdoge works in live but it does exactly what it says it does. Hyperdodge works on ep also its just our rolls are so random its hard to notice its effect. Hyperdodge on ep was never meant to stop you from getting hit...it just lowers the chance. With CR 2 you will get shot by free fire no matter how hard you try to stop it.
Everyone wants content but making npcs harder isnt exactly what I call "content". Its still the same old missions we have all done thousands of times. As far as mobs go do you guys really want to fight difficult mobs all day with little to no reward and call this content? I think we deserve a little better than that.
by hyperdodge, I mean dodge ranged, it has been broken in live so long, it's pretty much a joke now. As for hyperdodge in cr2, the chances should change with it activated, whether lowered total hit, ie, damage of 14 instead of 15 , or a chance to miss, but it did nothing.
Content, this is mxo, I dont expect any to be honest. It seems like four people are actually working on the game. If all are involved in cr2, they dont have the time to do much else. If there are more than the usual four always mentioned, the others need to find something different to do, SOE is a big company, and hire people to actually focus on content. Since this is and will be a mission based system, 40-60 new neighborhood contacts would be a good start. Npc's level based on the player also in low level areas. Since beta the best part of the game are these contacts, as they are full arc storylines, most make sense and have decent plot twists and endings. Back to the mobs, if the mobs are harder at max level, it's something. The new and improved creston mobs should range from 50-55 for standard npc street mobs, the dungeon mobs should be from 55-60, with a well thought out drop from the boss. Even a redesigned dungeon would be nice. Something is always better than the usual nothing.
I dont think you understand how hyperdodge and dodge ranged works on live. It works as designed and almost everyone on vector wears dr clothing. Without it you wont last long.
This discussion wasnt about increasing the level of the existing npcs but how hard they are to fight now. If they want to make the npcs in an area level 55+ thats fine with me. My objection is making the current npcs more difficult because people want content or more of a challenge.
. Back to the mobs, if the mobs are harder at max level, it's something. The new and improved creston mobs should range from 50-55 for standard npc street mobs, the dungeon mobs should be from 55-60, with a well thought out drop from the boss. Even a redesigned dungeon would be nice. Something is always better than the usual nothing.
Amen dude!
If you don't want hard NPCs then simply stay out of that neighborhood...why do I go fight PB's? Cuz they are actually challenging to hit. We aren't talking about making EVERYTHIGN in the game harder...just a neighborhood where 50's can go and still feel like they need to be on their toes. As it is now I can go to Creston park and go put some coffee on and come back with still half of my health.
What Freak3r is talking about is what you see in almost every other MMO (not that I think just cuz others do it..MxO should...) but that is something designed to take a team of players to work together. That type of exercise is also commonly referred to as "Team Building" and is great for factions to grow stronger which in turn makes more players play which means higher population which means more revenue which means more funding.
Everyone wants content but making npcs harder isnt exactly what I call "content". Its still the same old missions we have all done thousands of times. As far as mobs go do you guys really want to fight difficult mobs all day with little to no reward and call this content? I think we deserve a little better than that.
Exactly. Great points. Let's not go nuts clamoring for an increase in difficulty across the board, it's the easy way out for bored 50's. You can always add higher-end content like the Pandoras Boxes. But don't forget the lower levels, if you want new players they have to have a chance to make it without quitting in frustration. As Walrus pointed out once, he felt the con bar system should stay relatively the same.
You can always add an Extra Hard setting if you want to battle con reds or something. But lowbies and others should still be able to solo missions still if they want to or if they have no alternative. I have two lowbies an another srver with enough rep points to run the Zion and Machine Crits and I'll still need to solo these and survive. Err on the side of easy (not that I think it is, I think it's perfect), until we all become acclimated to the new system. Then you can tweak settings later if need be.
Everyone wants content but making npcs harder isnt exactly what I call "content". Its still the same old missions we have all done thousands of times. As far as mobs go do you guys really want to fight difficult mobs all day with little to no reward and call this content? I think we deserve a little better than that.
Exactly. Great points. Let's not go nuts clamoring for an increase in difficulty across the board, it's the easy way out for bored 50's. You can always add higher-end content like the Pandoras Boxes. But don't forget the lower levels, if you want new players they have to have a chance to make it without quitting in frustration. As Walrus pointed out once, he felt the con bar system should stay relatively the same.
You can always add an Extra Hard setting if you want to battle con reds or something. But lowbies and others should still be able to solo missions still if they want to or if they have no alternative. I have two lowbies an another srver with enough rep points to run the Zion and Machine Crits and I'll still need to solo these and survive. Err on the side of easy (not that I think it is, I think it's perfect), until we all become acclimated to the new system. Then you can tweak settings later if need be.
I don't think anyone is suggesting making the NPCs harder across the board, and I'm pretty sure the Devs don't have any plans on that. Hard should be hard, Easy should be easy. As your level goes up you obviously fight harder mobs and they stay challenging enough across the board...until you hit 50. When you hit 50 and have a good loadout and gear only PBoxes are difficult.
Yeah, I'd have to say this one did a pretty good job, althought I believe maybe the NPCs are a little weak now. I know it took 6 level 48s from Creston about 2 min to bring me down, and killed two in the process. They're pretty close to level 50, though they are just regular mobs, so maybe they shouldn't be as powerful as a redpill at 50.
Personally I do not see any differance at all. My charecter on the test server is a level 15, and i went to the park in Eshean and just ran through and picked up about 8 NPC's which conned yellow and blue. Then i stopped and started fighting and I only had to use a health pill twice just in case and i litterally kicked butt. The only NPC that was doing any real damage to me was the one i was in close combat with, all others that were shooting me was doing only 1 point damage if and when they hit me. In the end I faught 12 NPC's total.
My mellee resist is 26, and my ballistic resist is 60.
I agree that the strength of the NPC's in the live server is set just right. Its almost like youall should reset the test server to the same way as the live server, then implement the special features of the new CR2.0.
I just noticed you can stack bonuses from different trees. Im going to tweak my build some more and head back to creston. I may have to retract my previous statements on mob balance.
Even with the bonus stacking I think the balance is fine. One thing that will probably change my mind is the enhanced items we are still missing. With the extra health/is regen and even more ballistic/melee damage resistance from these items it might make things too easy.
