PvP in MxO and it's downfalls?

Ok I switched to WoW and have been on that for some time now and I have compared PvP in WoW to MxO.



WoW:



Advantages:



-Kill points add up to something worth your time.

-Combat require strategy and some skill.

-All classes are capable of being dominant in PvP.

-More than 3 different classes participate at all times (EX: MxO PvP=MKT,Assassin,Hacker)

-Dying and Rezzing are a lot better than in MxO.

-PvP battle grounds let you play Capture the Flag!

-PvP battle grounds are more balanced than MxO.

-Penalties to killing "Lower" ranked players.

-"Zerg" isn't much of a problem.

-Allows you to see the other players armor and how many kills they have (CQ)



Disadvantages:



-Hard to land the last blow to receive credit/honor bonuses.

-Can't really be solo.



That applies to non hostile servers in PvP battle grounds.



MxO:



Advantages:



-You are more capable of being solo in PvP.



Disadvantages:



-The combat is too random in an attempt to make up for balance (in my
opinion) which doesn't really allow any player to truly have or show
skill.

-In PvP 9 times out of 10 the same classes will be involved everytime and are almost a must have in order to be "dominant".

-CQ points have no value or meaning and no proof of how many you have.

-"Rare" items aren't..rare.

-Certain items make them game's combat system unbalanced.

-Everybody looks the same at certain levels.

-PvP=Zerg and trash talking.

-Only certain classes are "geared" properly for PvP.



thats just what I grabbed off the top of my head...whats your take on it guys? Be honest! Don't be biased!

I have to agree with cynic here.  You offer only 2 disadvantages that don't even seem like real disadvantages for WoW and have offered only 1 advantage for MxO that is arguably controversial as yes, people can pvp solo in MxO but why?  People complain that single hackers and knife throwers are overpowered and can devestate people.  You offer tons of advantages for WoW and tons of disadvantages for MxO pvp...

"Don't be biased" you say?

Ive had this debate many times, yes there are flaws with the combat, which will be resolved with the new combat system, but can you protect yourself against a MA, Knife , Hacker, etc etc, anwser yes, wifyou solo, you cant be equipped to take on several ppl if your not protected against them, so a team is always good anyway....different trees also work well together and certain stratiges, and to be honest, those not so good in pvp are more likely to complain about things more often, cause lets face it who likes to be killed? ppl that complain about hackers cause they dont want to load vd, ppl complain about MKT cause they dont want to load dodge etc....assassins are a pain if you shield is down , but its about working around what you have...and like i say dont think this is me just completly defending the pvp and various trees, its more about learning what you can and cant do, you wont see me try to take on a MA if i know i cant outroll him in IL, so what should the MA do? try to keep me in IL, how ? work it out , ive never played wow , so cant really say about good/bad but i think we should now wait for the new system before we really go into detials about the problems with various trees ....

Downfall of PvP

it serves no purpose apart from mindless killing. No honor system, reward system, any real goal unless it's a live event. Nothing at all...

I rarely PvP unless I have to because there is absolutely no point to it.

Oh all things said so far, this I agree with the below the most. The biggest
thing missing is "purpose".  (Sorry had to quote Smith). With
purpose comes the need to fix all the other things that might be broke
with it.



As much as I hate to say it, the archives are primarily about farming
items and a secondary side-effect of PvP. There are many things about
the archives that prevent really well balanced PvP.



Right now, I hear calls from my Sirens about PvP in Mara and Stamos.
Who's being over run by whom.  So, we go and we either get over
run or we over run the others (Zionists or Machines) The problem is
that, jack out and jack in later and you would have never known like
any of that happened.  There is no ownership or effect. There is
no "purpose" besides bragging rights.



PvP Contests and Live Events are different. There are prizes and items involved and there is a title to be hard at times.



While the Sirens are about to re-enter this field of activity, I find
it hard to consider PvP at Mara and Stamos as very critical to our
success. At best, it's a training ground for Live Events. It needs more.



-MM

---

[CoZ]LostProphet wrote:
I rarely PvP unless I have to because there is absolutely no point to it.

---

Message Edited by Midori-Megami on 10-27-2005 02:50 PM

MXO's downfalls are how random interlock is, how numbers seriously mean something, and how hacks hit even people with max deflect 50% of the time.  You can buff your dodge ranged to roll 350, but VD never gets any higher.

---

HackViral wrote:
thats just what I grabbed off the top of my head...whats your take on it guys? Be honest! Don't be biased!

---

Ok, I'm going to be honest.

I think you shouldn't compare WoW with MxO.... WoW is a complete different system and a complete different genre. Besides that, PvP does require skill and tacticts. If you're in a outnumbered organisation you need it.

Start PvPing more lmao.... MxO has more classes in PvP! Doctor, Upgrade Artist, Rifleman, Sniper, some Ma's and smg specialst / duelist.

Btw, ctf isn't a advantages, its just a lil option...

Certain items make the game unbalanced? Like what? You just said that rare items aren't rare so the only think you can be talking about is the mask...

MxO PvP is fine the way it is. It could just use some extra options....

I am not going to comment on WoW since I do not like it and have not played since forever.

---

HackViral wrote:


MxO:

Disadvantages:

-CQ points have no value or meaning and no proof of how many you have.
Not true, at least to my knowledge, CQ points have a secret purpose. It was on the old MxO Support page FAQs.

-"Rare" items aren't..rare.
I do not know what you are talking about here.

-Everybody looks the same at certain levels.
Yes, besideds the poor RSI character customization (Please make more character customization and a RARH = RSI Appearence Reset Hack) and everybody wears the samedbuffed clothes that instead look like Matrixy clothing actually look a bum wore them for a couple of years.

---

WoW Disadvantage - It's WoW

I try to get into that game but I just can't, it's ok but not really the setting I like. It's really the same thing until you're high lvl, grind missions...meet this guy, kill this, get this etc. I read the forums over there and I see lots of the same complaints that I see here. On WoW forums I see: beta was better, this class is over powered, I'm bored, newb questions being flamed to hell, horde/alliance are teh suxor...etc.

Storyline in WoW? Compelling background story, eh maybe.:robotindifferent: I guess new things are fun and playing the same game or doing the same thing over and over (aside from eating, drinking, sleep & sex) can get boring. It never hurts to take a break. I partied in Europe for a few weeks, now MXO is kinda like new again.

Im not being biased. The disadvantages listed are the ones I
experienced on an every day basis. Doctors are Hackers they are in the
Hacker tree . Rare items aren't rare for the example of the Sakura
Bandana...you can go camp a construct for a bit and yank a few out and
turn around and sell them off for profit you can't walk in the
construct and start killing any mob members and just out of the blue a
Sakura Bandana drop..the only thing it requires to get a bandana is
patients. PvP more? Im level 50 on Vector and on Recursion..I have been
level 50 a total of 3 times...I have been around the block in MxO. And
like you guys have said PvP in MxO is absolutley pointless. The
unbalanced item? Yes, it's the mask. I was in a group with one of my
factions mates who won the mask and contributed greatly to the win so
don't jump on the case of "you're jealous" any mask that gives the
buffs that it gives and allows you to just hotbar the item and not use
it to lose purity and take away CT and debuffs the crap out of you to
make the masks buffs even MORE effective is crappy to me. However, im
listing the advantages to the GAME im listing the advantages to PvP in
both games. I am a huge Matrix fan and have played this game sense
launch and I have grown tired of bragging about a random roll of the
dice win regardless of attributes and PvP only to add up numbers that
nobody else but you can see and brag on. The combat revamp needs more
then just a new look and feel it needs a complete remake if you ask me.
If a character has 70 Focus, that player should be a force to be
reckoned with in Ranged ect. If the person has a 70 in Perception, in
interlock they should create problems...so far you don't see much of
this in the game because it's too random.

so you are saying it took you 3 lvl 50ies to realize the only advantage
of pvp in MxO is that you can solo and everything else sucks? hmmm,
ok....

I have to agree with NullVector completely, WoW is simply the more
polished game (and you can solo in WoW, very effectively, it's just
knowing where to put your talent points to create the right build that
fits your style, and who and when to strike and who to not). Give MxO
another year or so, and it SHOULD by then be a better game. As for now,
no one can deny MxO is still somewhat in shambles because of the
several broken combat systems.



And yes, there are those who whine about one class being overpowered in
WoW just like here, but what most of them don't realize is they adapted
DAoC's PvP system to go with their own. Each class has a form of root
and stun attack and whatnot, but how strong they are varies with each
class, as well as attack power and all that jazz. There's a class
balance system with all of that, though, I can't count how many times
I've seen idoit Rogues try and take a Paladin head on, Rogues were
designed specifically for taking out caster types, if they were meant
to melee down massive tanks, they'd be given a better defense. Where as
a Paladin is nothing but defense, Paladin has the highest defense in
game, they can heal and buff themselves while having instant casts,
their instant casts are weak but good for wearing down opponents. But a
caster can
waste a Paladin with ease because of their massive high dmg attacks
that aren't adherent to the Paladin's defensive armor, and there in
lies the class balance, classA<classB<classC<classD<classA,
MxO once a upon a time did have this kind of class balance, but with
all it's broken combat systems and that fact everyone is rolling the
same thing most times, this has been nullified. I mean, you can defend
against the high dmg casters in WoW quite easily without having to
sacrifice any skills or abilities or anything, like you do in MxO where
you have to sacrifice 30 memory just to have even a slight defense
against hackers.

Message Edited by Charlenna on 10-27-2005 12:50 PM

Warlocks in WoW are probably the most over powered class and the only
reason it hasn't been nerfed is cause Warlock, isn't easy by far to PvP
with if you can get your strats together you are a force in PvP as a
Warlock. In MxO Hacker is the over powered class and the only reason it
hasn't been nerfed is because everybody loves how easy it is to walk in
to a battle and do 3 clicks and kill about 5 people. Point of the
argument is you can't truly have bragging rights or claim to have much
skill at all in MxO because its far too random and mixed up to do so.
The day when you can see a level 50 Data Miner, run in to mara c and
get atleast 2 CQ is the day you know the game has taken a serious leap
forward! By that I mean that I think every class in the game should be
capable of doing PvP and being good at it with the correct strategy and
timing..as of right now it's far from it. I like interlock but at the
same time I don't like it. If interlock was tweaked more to let you
click on other players and attack them and do it quickly and easily
without becoming stuck and having rolls that are now about 95% random
interlock would be a more popular way to go. In the combat revamp if
they dont do something similar to that to "encourage" more interlock
friendly PvP then I don't see the revamp as being so huge. I also think
all exile hideouts should be made to require atleast a 3 person group
and make it where there are quests that make you going in them have a
point rather than loot...also making the loot better and mix it up
where you don't know EXACTLY what 1 of 3 items you will get on what
person making rare items..seem rare. I can't explain the system WoW has
the way it is in my mind but the best way I can put it is Epic items
are better then Blue "Rare" Items they are meant to be faster and
stronger..but at the same time it doesn't make the holder exceptionally
hard to kill because the Blue items are awesome enough to allow you to
hang in there..that probably makes little to no sense but the best way
I can sum it up is you aren't required to wear certain clothes at
certain levels to look like everybody else because of the way the armor
is in that game it's not too often you see 2 level 60's side by side
wearing the EXACT same clothing.



Also if you look on the leader boards of WoW the top 10 arent all for
example Warlocks. It's a mix the way the classes work in WoW is each is
designed for a certain purpose BUT each class with the right skill is
capable of defeating any other class with ease..it's just all in what
you know and how you do it and thats what id love to see in MxO is a
combat system where the guy with 10K CQ earns those points by knowing
*CENSORED* he is doing and not simply by loading up one class and getting in a
group and just laying in with hacks on a Purple to Red click scale.

Message Edited by HackViral on 10-27-2005 02:10 PM

Message Edited by HackViral on 10-27-2005 02:12 PM

It doesn't exist in WoW because you can be a Warrior and still make
clothes your Profession is different from your Class which is what this
game also needs..do away with the Coder tree and leave like Proxy tech.
and make Coder and what not something seperate. If a Hacker can be
combat ready why can't a data miner? Whats a Hacker really do? they
break in computer system and write virii ect..why can't a data miner
extract data from RSIs and do damage that way?

Who says it would have to be a Hacker? You know Hybrid classes can work
to. Data Miner could be something like a Hacker/Fighter..the
possibilities go on. There would be no need to complain about it if the
devs would keep things balanced and fine tuned instead of throwing
something in the game to make people happy to take their minds off of
the problem at hand. Why give us a stun pill when you can just fix stun
all together? It doesn't take a combat revamp to fix something that
small. I think that the Pro. Tree as it is also needs to be revamped
greatly diving things in to Professions and Classes..wouldn't you like
to be able to be a Apparrel Maker and still keep your MA build without
having to spend about 100mil info to level all that crap up when all
you simply have to do is just use the skill to gain more experience and
simply buy or loot new abilities for that pro? This can tie in with the
economy just as simple less money being spent on actual abilities and
more people getting that means a more productive community which means
more money goes to other players and a cycle starts instead of it just
going in to thin air when you level your crap up. All this is getting a
bit off topic from the original its going from PvP disadvantages to
game improvement..but I suppose thats ok. All in all I think like I
said the tree should be split in 3 Hybrid,Melee,Ranged and then on the
side have your individual Professions. Im not saying make it where you
choose Hacker, and you're Hacker for life...let people change their
class but if each class was tuned right...it could be change your class
but you can't mix one with the other.

@Tytanya:



Anarchy Online is a futuristic MMORPG and I would rate it over an
infirior kiddygame like WoW anyday... it's more like SWG than like MxO
though, not really comparable... MxO is pretty unique and while it
still has it's flaws, the developers have put some thought into it, not
blantantly copied all features from other MMOs like Blizzard has done
in WoW...

So what if WoW have taken the best eliments out of all the MMO's and put them into one game. Its more enjoyably to play, for me anyway and i'll be playing it for a long time to come. And its hardly infirior LOL :smileytongue:

---

Sweeet wrote:

So what if WoW have taken the best eliments out of all the MMO's and put them into one game.

---

Lol...kidding right? It didn't take the Le's from MxO....

Message Edited by Enon_ on 10-28-2005 03:42 PM

Stop nitpicking before you get an itchy head... :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Sweeet on 10-28-2005 02:50 PM

Honestly, in my opinion, this all seems very nitpicky.  And I'm not flaming, it's entirely okay to nitpick.  But as for me I really don't see what the problem is.  First you still complain that hackers are overpowered (not in this post but on this thread you have), this is going to be fixed, so I'd wait till the apparent revamp to see what's going on.  I guess I'm not the one to be a cynic.  I simply wait to see what happens first.

And I don't get some of your complaints.  They seem contradictory:

wouldn't you like to be able to be a Apparrel Maker and still keep your MA build without having to spend about 100mil info to level all that crap up when all you simply have to do is just use the skill to gain more experience and simply buy or loot new abilities for that pro?

Um... you complain that this game is too easy to level up... and you want to make it easier to level up.  :smileyindifferent:

Really I just don't see the problem.  You need money to level your abilities.  That's one of the challenges, as minor as it is.  What's the big deal?

I personally, would like to see cq's being alloted to how
many kills per
org you have.  This would say, give factions, or individuals some
sort of base for any alliance with factions of other orgs that wish to
strictly focus on a particular org to /pvp with.  Of course, many
people would not follow, or even regard the ranking system. 
But  I'd think it could be valuable to those of us that would
prefer
something like this.

So you can click on a player, and lets say he's machine, and see how many Zion:  or Merv:   kills they have.



Just a thought.

The problem with PVP in MxO lies in the game mechanics. As
the whole
world is designed around interlock along with applying attributes with
a random dice system, introducing hackers throws balance right out the
window. Yes hackers add a little more depth to the game but at the same
time greatly sacrificing game balance. All this with a weak mission
system that is highly repetative and you have a very average MMO.
*edit* Being able to apply your own attributes adds to imbalance bacuse
if you don't know how to apply them correctly, you compromise your
abbilty to PVP effectively.



WoW gets around this problem by giving every race along with class a
specific attribute layout that is well balanced. You can then only
apply talent points which buff certain areas of your class to your
style of play in turn optimizing your PVP performance. All this with a
very indepth quest system that never keeps you in the same area for too
long (forgoing the repetivness) and you have a high end MMO.



That is why WoW is doing so well. They streamline gameplay with an
excellent game engine. I would love nothing more than to be able to say
the same about MxO. But untill SOE pull there finger out, its not going
to happen.

Message Edited by Sweeet on 10-28-2005 12:08 AM

---

Sweeet wrote:

That is why WoW is doing so well.

---

Acutally, a lot of Diablo II and Wc3 players went to WoW. It's the same genre and both games have lot of players.

Heh... Personally I kind of like free-melee over IL, because IL is nice
and flashy to watch, but it's a major burden when PvPing, because well
you're inter-locked so anyone with outside IL attacks you're
vulnerable, if an assassin creeps up on you and you're rooted, stunned,
or enraged in IL, you're screwed, you can't defend. But with free-melee
you can, because for example, an assassin's attacks are positional,
more often than not, they have to attack from behind, in IL it's very
easy for an assassin to move to right spot, but with free-melee, you're
target has complete freedom to move about, so if they see you they can
pop your stealth completely depriving you from your high dmg attack,
forcing you to have to retreat to try again as they continue fighting
their initial enemy unless they decide to chase you down upon popping
your stealth, as the defender you have that option, and as the attacker
you have to be wary of that, forcing both players to have a bit more
strategy in what they're doing.

Euhm Charlenna....

 

---

Enon_ wrote:
MxO however, has a great interlock system, which unfortunatly has his problems

---

.....

"Euhm Charlenna....

 

---

Enon_ wrote:
MxO however, has a great interlock system, which unfortunatly has his problems

---

....."

lmao Yes, Enon_, it has *its* problems, as we both mentioned, don't
feel insecure for the fact that others may make mention of it as well
just because *you* may have already. Sorry, privledged one, but when
others have an opinion on an issue, they will post their own point of
view on it, even when it coincides with yours. No need to get pissy
about it, and you were, before you try to b.s. about not being so,
otherwise there would be no point in making the post above. ^^^ :smileytongue:

And I think the reason why Sweeet thinks you're being hostile,
ArtherEld, is the tone of your posts in some points do seem somewhat
underhandedly, sarcastically snide, such as the race car example and
whatnot, a short retort that explains nothing. Even though you may not
mean to do so, the problem with the Internet is with being unable to
speak to someone face to face like these forums, no one knows
everyone's exact tone at times.

Personally, for me, WoW is simply the more polished game, and for
some people, it does come down to game mechanics. The numerous broken
combat systems in this game drives me up the wall. Actually the reason
why I started playing MxO in the first place is the fact it was a nice
diversion from the stereotypical fantasy-based MMOs, but with all the
problems MxO has, WoW for me simply comes out the better game, so it's
the one I tend to be playing more these days until MxO's combat systems
are finally fixed. For those who prefer MxO for it's RP element over
WoW, that's great, the player creates the character after all, not the
other way around, so tired of the fantasy-styled settings, MxO is a
good game to turn to. Even if it's not for RP only, still a good
reason, but just bear in mind the fact, others will simply have a
difference of opinion. For me, again, a nice departure from the norm
but with MxO's game mechanics in the state they are in now, WoW is
simply more appealing to me.

Message Edited by Charlenna on 10-29-2005 12:36 AM

---

Charlenna wrote:

And I think the reason why Sweeet thinks you're being hostile, ArtherEld, is the tone of your posts in some points do seem somewhat underhandedly, sarcastically snide, such as the race car example and whatnot, a short retort that explains nothing. Even though you may not mean to do so, the problem with the Internet is with being unable to speak to someone face to face like these forums, no one knows everyone's exact tone at times.

---

Char, I was talking about this post here:

"Even though you may not mean to do so, the problem with the Internet is
with being unable to speak to someone face to face like these forums,
no one knows everyone's exact tone at times." - Me



Please, read people's entire post before you qoute them, ArtherEld. It
was merely an impression that Sweeet was getting from you, and now, I'm
starting to get that impression as well. You ask if having an opposing
opinion is a flame, well, obviously not, but it comes down to how well a
person handle that opposing opinion, and vice versa. I realize that MxO
is your style of RP, I understand that perfectly, please read peoples
entire posts before you reply to them and attempt to dispute them. It
helps when you try to put all peoples opinions into consideration when
you decide to rebut someone elses.

Message Edited by Charlenna on 10-29-2005 04:06 AM

lmao Yes, ArtherEld, I know you two are ok now, but that was sometime
after I already made my post here in this thread, while both of yours
resolutions were in a entirely different thread, one that you created as a matter of fact. :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Charlenna on 10-31-2005 02:16 AM

I'm not trying to compare genres here, i'm trying to compare simple game mechanics in which yes, they can indeed be compared. WoW success on the whole has nothing to do with diablo 2 players. If the game mechanics sucked poeple wouldn't play it. WoW has the superior game engine and it's as simple as that.

---

Sweeet wrote:
I'm not trying to compare genres here, i'm trying to compare simple game mechanics in which yes, they can indeed be compared. WoW success on the whole has nothing to do with diablo 2 players. If the game mechanics sucked poeple wouldn't play it. WoW has the superior game engine and it's as simple as that.

---

Okay, so I have a race car game that has a better engine than my survival horror video game.  I guess the race car game is a better game.

---

ArtherEld wrote:

---

Sweeet wrote:
I'm not trying to compare genres here, i'm trying to compare simple game mechanics in which yes, they can indeed be compared. WoW success on the whole has nothing to do with diablo 2 players. If the game mechanics sucked poeple wouldn't play it. WoW has the superior game engine and it's as simple as that.

---

Okay, so I have a race car game that has a better engine than my survival horror video game.  I guess the race car game is a better game.

---

No your just being silly.... They need to make a new season and call it 'nitpicking season'

---

Sweeet wrote:

---

ArtherEld wrote:

---

Sweeet wrote:
I'm not trying to compare genres here, i'm trying to compare simple game mechanics in which yes, they can indeed be compared. WoW success on the whole has nothing to do with diablo 2 players. If the game mechanics sucked poeple wouldn't play it. WoW has the superior game engine and it's as simple as that.

---

Okay, so I have a race car game that has a better engine than my survival horror video game.  I guess the race car game is a better game.

---

No your just being silly.... They need to make a new season and call it 'nitpicking season'

---

Funny I thought "nitpicking" was when people complain about little bitty things about a product that don't do anything to make the product a bad product.

Now... where does this happen?  Hmmmm...

I don't understand why you are trying to argue?! All i'm trying to do is compare two MMO game mechanics, what works and what doesn't.

Why all the hostility? I don't expect you to agree but that doesn't mean you have to be an *CENSORED* about it.

---

Sweeet wrote:

I don't understand why you are trying to argue?! All i'm trying to do is compare two MMO game mechanics, what works and what doesn't.

Why all the hostility? I don't expect you to agree but that doesn't mean you have to be an *CENSORED* about it.

---

I will give you 1 trillion info if you can point out where I was hostile in that post.

And to answer your question: no.  Better game engine does not make it a better game.  At least for my preferrences.  This is what I meant by that "race car game" comment (which you criticized as being silly and nitpicky).  WoW does not appeal to me.  People have told you this already and you just aren't seeing it.  Orcs, trolls, dwarves, elves.  I'm just bored of that environment as attached to the roleplaying world.  I want something different and MxO, in my opinion, is.  Role playing in MxO is great imo.

And WoW and MxO both being RPGs, this makes MxO a better game, at least for my preferrence.

But if you're more concerned with how a game plays rather than what the game is, more power to ya.  Play WoW and I hope you enjoy.

(again no hostility is intended in this entire post)

Message Edited by ArtherEld on 10-28-2005 09:30 AM

WoW does have events my friend. Not like the way MxO has them which is
better. I like the way MxO events go but to be honest back before SOE
took over everybody knows that the LET had their little favorites and
you had all this favortism going around which I thought was a load of
BS and highly unprofessional but I am not about to go in to any of
that. WoW, has events with quest/npc like add ins and are a lot of fun
because you can't solo them you have to rely on a team and you make a
lot of friends that way..and I love the looting system and hate it at
the same time because you can't have a loot hog unless they select need
everytime then they have to out roll you to win it so its totally
random unless you set it to be other wise. In MxO the way they set it
up is where you can do a lot of the game solo you dont have to rely on
a team at too many points except for pandora's box,PvP, or events at
the right level you can easily solo a dungeon and still get top drops
(I did South Vauxton at like level 24/25 and got a direwolf in 3 drops)
and in WoW it's not in the question of "Can I solo this?" because
unless you're about 20 or so levels higher than everybody in the
dungeon its not going to happen..and even at the max level of 60...a
group of level 20's can kill you if you are careless in MxO I can stand
in place and let a mob shoot at me for hours and never lose health.

It seems the thread subject says it all about the negative angle on PVP.

I've PvP'd a little bit occasionally (only now approaching level 50),
but found it fun working in as part of a team trying to turn the tide
of the battles whereever they may spring up.  I dont expect to win
every fight (I lose most of them) but the challenge for me was to do
what I can to help the team bring down the opposition.  It's all
about meeting people and working as a team.  You can PvP on your
own, but being on a MMORPG, to me, that kind of defeats the
point. 



An example of this is the impromptu "event" on Recursion the other
night where an awakened DJ (OmniDo) offered i$18m for anyone who could
kill his character, and $1m for any Zion who would help protect
him.  The fight went on for about an hour or so, but was great
fun, and yes, despite the Zion hoards, OmniDo was taken down.  The
point being, PvP can be a very flexible concept for dynamic "home-brew"
content, especially if you listen to the online radios



Regarding the comment on rare items not being rare enough, I think they
are.  Personally, I dont know anyone with an Assassin mask, and
spent *alot* of time in the constructs trying to get the rare drops,
but never managed to get one.  I had to resort to buying on the
market place, but the point is that these items are not easy to get,
and they do wear out, so when it's gone, and you're level 50, you can't
go back in to the construct (unless you have an alternate char) to get
another one.



Just my tuppence worth.

I think a lot of the excitement and individuality in PvP builds disappeared when they changed memory requirements to what we have today.

Back in Beta, at one point I could load Kung Fu Master, Arbalest, and Vector, or abilities throughout those trees, at one time. This allowed a great deal of freedom when creating a build.

You had FM/Gunman/KT, Hacker/Patcher, MA/Hacker, Patcher/MA, Spy/Hacker, Spy/MA, etc

It made things more interesting, but was sadly removed to stop, "Uber Builds".