An Animator

How about we stop proposing ideas to this forums for animation when we lack an animator. Maybe we should focus more on actually getting an animator, before just circumventing animation ideas. What would one propose to do to actually get one?

Hmmm. How much do you guys think an animator makes per year? It can't be that much, right?

With any luck our playerbase will increase thanks to the buddy keys and we'll be able to afford one.  The next trick is to bother the guy who's job is to bother SOE.  I might be wrong but I think it falls under Walrus' domain, does anyone know how to reach him?

I think the fact they dont have an animator shows clear neglect for mxo, how can they possible expect the game to last without bring out new stuff. Everything we are getting now is just old stuff with new colours or textures. I admit they are making steps forward with the corruptors and the data mining spawns but they cant keep recycling content forever, we definitely need an animator.

Data mining fix anyone?

Dracomet put a lot of work into that, and it shows.  I love the fact that the tree is useful now.  That's not to say we couldn't do with an animator, but let's not go saying our current devs are doing nothing - that doesn't help.

I was thinking among the lines of a SDK release, someone makes the animation, make them sign a release form, devs import into MxO proprietary format, the end.

1. When you buy an MMO you get the rights to play it, but that game isn't your property per say, the disks and everything on it is but it isn't your game because the game is played on their servers, that makes it a service. That is why they can terminate your account. Legally that would make it illegal for anybody outside of SOE to add to the game. For that reason SDKs are not released on MMO's
   
2. Animation software is expensive because of the subtle complexity of the actual game and would be pushing 5 figures to put it in a package that was for mass distribution.
3. The game mechanics are extremely difficult, when SOE devs took over 2 years ago around about they knew nothing, now 2 years on, they still know extremely little, and these guys have been adding/changing for 2 years it's their job so I don't know how people who don't know a peep about design are going to manage.
   

LtCmdr_Tsusai wrote:

I was thinking among the lines of a SDK release, someone makes the animation, make them sign a release form, devs import into MxO proprietary format, the end.

I'll tell you a few things

1. When you buy an MMO you get the rights to play it, but that game isn't your property per say, the disks and everything on it is but it isn't your game because the game is played on their servers, that makes it a service. That is why they can terminate your account. Legally that would make it illegal for anybody outside of SOE to add to the game. For that reason SDKs are not released on MMO's
   
2. Animation software is expensive because of the subtle complexity of the actual game and would be pushing 5 figures to put it in a package that was for mass distribution.
3. The game mechanics are extremely difficult, when SOE devs took over 2 years ago around about they knew nothing, now 2 years on, they still know extremely little, and these guys have been adding/changing for 2 years it's their job so I don't know how people who don't know a peep about design are going to manage.
   

I would have to disagree with #2 as the original game has already been mass distributed, I would assume you could just add animations with new patches. City of Heroes does it, why not MxO? But the main problem is SOE doesn't care about MxO, I think the YouTube Ad thing was a good idea.

Maya personal is something i had in mind.

I suspect this is less a problem of "can we build a custom MXO SDK?" and more a question of too many cooks:  let's not forget that this was a Warner Brothers property, farmed out to Sega, who recruited Monolith...and it promptly got dumped in Sony's lap--rather unceremoniously, from the employee side of things, if what I had heard during the transfer was true.

Technically, I would imagine there's a common format underneath:  use existing models, paint up some new textures, throw in some new loops of movement.  Devs then integrate.

But that doesn't necessarily mean an animator wouldn't have to be, for instance, heavily schooled in how the LithTech engine works, in order to understand the limits of how they can build.

SOE could hire a freelancer--plenty of those about--but maybe the skillset needed would seriously jack up the price.

What kind of animator are you asking for?  A 3D animator for the models or someone to make the cinematics a little more ... colorful?

Monolith were the ones who made the original content.  Models, textures and animations.  When they sold it they probably sold it as one big package.  So - there is no need for an animator as the game is now.  Although the inclusion of more models, and animated moods would be a super cool thing.  To work with has been done already one needs access the source stuff Monolith made the objects and models with.  Probably some new code.  It takes money and time to do that.  And obviously Sony care about none of it.

 I'm an animator - mainly 2D but I studied some 3D for games in school.  I would love to add content to this game, if I could.  And getting some compensation would be nice too.  But I'd do it mainly for the love of doing it as a fan.

There are several animations and such that do need to be perfected in the models.  Maybe some more facial animations.  New models and textures and the nine yards might require and expansion pak of some sort as everyone would have to install all the new content on their computers.  Like with Warcraft BC.  I would like to see new robot models, maybe some more dungeon creatures, boss creatures - more insentive to get players into dungeons and such on a more regular basis. 

 As for the cinematics - I think it should go back to the in-game filming.  Sorry Rarebit, but the black&white film noir style isn't cutting it for me.  And it could be much more animated instead of being so simple if they had someone who knows how to work Flash on a higher level of 2D animation experience.  Heh - like me.  Anyway - I feel that if the fans can make the cinematics on a free basis with their own software - why can't the company?   

I love the 2D cinematics, especially how they are now, they have a very strong graphic novel theme.  Another reason we may not have the in-game engine cinematics is because they were motion capture and would require an animator.

But, the main reason we could do with an animator is to do some brand new content, new abilities, /emotes and lots of other stuff. 

Also, expansion packs are the bringer of death for MMOs, all your doing is asking the players to fork out for more money for more content they should be getting with their monthly subscription anyway.  All new stuff to MxO shall be patched just like CR2, from what I remember, that was a pretty big patch.

Another option would be one many of us have already gone through with the transition to SOE.  The story was put on hold to work on bugs and many other aspects of MxO.  I would be more than happy to continue paying even if it meant I would not be able to play for X amount of time.  However, I would only do this if the MxO site stayed online and had regular detailed updates on progress and what was being added/tested etc.  It would also have to be an expansion pack size addition i.e. new areas, drivable vehicles, new abilities, massive combat fix etc.

All comes down to money. ;P

I just don't think this game, whatever kind of money it brings in will take off again. I just get the feeling now that all the money for this game is being sapped and moved to new projects, and even if we were to get a heck of a lot of new subscribers, the big shots will probably just sift it off into The Agency or something.

I love the 2D cinematics, especially how they are now, they have a very strong graphic novel theme.  Another reason we may not have the in-game engine cinematics is because they were motion capture and would require an animator.

If what Pack-Hunter says is true - then that pretty much means the ppl working on this game have to pretty much reverse engineer the game from the ground up.  Which I find absolutely ridiculous on Sony's part.  Because having to reverse engineer something this sofisticated is extreemly hard for anyone.

 What needs to be done and demanded on the ppl working on this title's part is to get the source code that Monolith developed the game with.  As well as demanding the software needed to animate and add new content.  Come on guys - fight for your rights!  How can you be expected to reverse engineer something like this?  Go to Monolith and get that source code and the stuff needed. 

 Basicly what else that is saying is Sony has pretty much already abandoned what they do with this game.  There is only a small handfull of ppl working on it - reverse engineering it, and those ppl are being called away to work on other titles.  Matrix is dead as far ans Sony is concerned.  And if they are siffoning the player's fees and just pumping it into anouther game.  Isn't that sort of illeagal somehow?  Ppl who pay the monthly fee and agree to play by signing the ULA are expecting that their money is going towards the game they are playing.  Not being sucked off and put into a different platform somewhere else.  We pay the fee to play the game we paid for - not to have it put into development of a different title.  I think we might have a case here for a lawsuit if we really decided to persue it.

Players use what is it ... FRAPs?  To make their cinematics.  It is actually cheap software, to buy a licences version is only $37, otherwise it is a shareware.  All it takes is some players to be the actors, and someone who is talented at putting together the movie and shooting it.  Just look on Youtube w/ppl's home made movies.  Think - almost real life terms and filming.  If you asked players if they would like to participate in helping to make a new ingame cinematic, I am sure you would find that most everyone would be happy to do so.   it just takes a little imagination, creativity,and some filmography.

 Otherwise  - get someone who knows how to animate with Flash a little better and has a bit more sense of color in their artwork.  I know some ppl like it the way it is, and some ppl don't.  I'm one of those who doesn't care for it.  Time for anouther artist to take a shot at the cinematics.  Maybe as a PT, collaberative thing.  See what the players like as far as styles goes, by trying out some new styles.  Maybe almost like the Matrix comics that WB has.  I would love to do make the cinematics and animate them - my fees would be a lot cheaper than most.  I'd do it mainly for the love of Matrix.  But - whatever.  Continue on the way it is and this game might end up being completely thown in the toilet.  I can only hope that the monthly fees will be cancled and we can still play.  Kinda like how Guild Wars has it set up  - purchase the game disk and then no fee playtime.   

SolidRevolver wrote:

I love the 2D cinematics, especially how they are now, they have a very strong graphic novel theme.  Another reason we may not have the in-game engine cinematics is because they were motion capture and would require an animator.

Walrus said the reason is because none of them know how to work the tool to make the old cinematics.

If what Pack-Hunter says is true - then that pretty much means the ppl working on this game have to pretty much reverse engineer the game from the ground up.  Which I find absolutely ridiculous on Sony's part.  Because having to reverse engineer something this sofisticated is extreemly hard for anyone.

Roukan wrote:

SolidRevolver wrote:

I love the 2D cinematics, especially how they are now, they have a very strong graphic novel theme.  Another reason we may not have the in-game engine cinematics is because they were motion capture and would require an animator.

Walrus said the reason is because none of them know how to work the tool to make the old cinematics.

Eh, no, that wasn't really right. It's because they're extremely time-intensive. Making the old in-game ones became a full-time job for our old lead level designer, at least one animator, and I think maybe half a 3D/texture artist.

Making the old in-game ones became a full-time job for our old lead level designer, at least one animator, and I think maybe half a 3D/texture artist.

Animatrix was done in various different styles by different directors and animation houses, the Bros. wanted to feature the same story - only told by different ppl, and emphisise on the art qualities of many different Japanese directors.  Like the guys who made Akira and Aeon Flux.  I LOVE how Animatrix was done.  I think that would look nice and be ok as a collaberative effort between fans who would lend their art skills to making the cinematics and those whom are already on the team.  Maybe each chapter features a popular artist in their style - like Animatrix.  There would be a lot of artist fans here who would like to participate in having their piece of the story shown to all.  And be able to display their artwork version of the story en-mass

This game is quickly loosing lots on long time players/subscribers.  Something needs to be done soon or there won't be anyone left. 

There has been a serious lack of Live Events lately and that alone has led to the abandonment.  I figured it was because everyone is really busy working on updates and fixing material and problem solving the issues with Vista.  But - throw us a bone or 2 here guys!  Maybe some sub-plots, or exercises for the players.  Maybe like that one bit where Gray had ppl clean up some gang members for the rings and the group with the most rings got a prize, each faction leader can do it for their faction - Zion, Mechs, and Mervs.  Small stuff like that entices ppl to keep playing and gives the impression that MxO is still being paid attenion to.  Anything - just more LE interaction to keep ppl at least passified.   

This game is quickly loosing lots on long time players/subscribers.  Something needs to be done soon or there won't be anyone left. 

There has been a serious lack of Live Events lately and that alone has led to the abandonment.  I figured it was because everyone is really busy working on updates and fixing material and problem solving the issues with Vista.  But - throw us a bone or 2 here guys!  Maybe some sub-plots, or exercises for the players.  Maybe like that one bit where Gray had ppl clean up some gang members for the rings and the group with the most rings got a prize, each faction leader can do it for their faction - Zion, Mechs, and Mervs.  Small stuff like that entices ppl to keep playing and gives the impression that MxO is still being paid attenion to.  Anything - just more LE interaction to keep ppl at least passified.   

While we have you here Rarebit, what do you think of linking some newspaper boxes to player-made papers?  I have some idea about the technical requirement here but I'm curious as to the feasibility. 

GypsyJuggler wrote:

While we have you here Rarebit, what do you think of linking some newspaper boxes to player-made papers?  I have some idea about the technical requirement here but I'm curious as to the feasibility. 

It will be very easy, all the newspapers are doing is linking you off to a website where you can view it.  So, if you knew the address, you could view it on your browser now, same with the World Events and Scanline Reciever.

SolidRevolver wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:

While we have you here Rarebit, what do you think of linking some newspaper boxes to player-made papers?  I have some idea about the technical requirement here but I'm curious as to the feasibility. 

It will be very easy, all the newspapers are doing is linking you off to a website where you can view it.  So, if you knew the address, you could view it on your browser now, same with the World Events and Scanline Reciever.

Note the bold text.  My question was more related to wether they'd be willing or allowed to link to a site they weren't in direct control or ownership of.  I remember a while ago there was caution about linking to sites because of the potential for exploitation or corruption. 

>_<  Ignore my bad reading.

If the 'player paper' is in control of the DEVs, I dont see why it cant be used.  They can check it over and will be in control of the address so no changing can occur or anything.  They probably wont though, when in comes down to it, no one understands the story of the Matrix better than the writers so they will want to be incharge of the main one, Player made ones will have to make do with links from the forum....

Then again I'm not a Dev, so yet again ignore me

The conversation I had with Walrus at the fanfaire regarding the subject of hiring an animator went a little something like this.


Machete:

What are the chances of hiring an independent contractor to do the animation work for MxO?  Maybe tap the talent of the community and see if someone is talented enough to take on the task?


Walrus:

We don't have the budget at the moment to hire a full-time animator.  I am not saying that we DON'T want to hire one, but IF we do sometime down the line we may take on an intern the same way we did with Dracomet, and nurture them from within to fill-in the position once they have proven they are up to it after their internship.


This tells me that they know they need an animator, but its going to take time for them to look for the "right" person to fill the intern position they are thinking of taking on. 
I think this is a great idea if it DOES indeed happen, considering how invaluable Dracomet has become to the dev-team now that he is a full time dev for The Matrix Online. 

I hope this answers any questions or doubts people may have had regarding the dev team taking on an new animator.

Walrus said the reason is because none of them know how to work the tool to make the old cinematics.

You know, it makes me really sad to hear that. Just in general, nowhere I've ever worked and nothing I've ever worked on has been documented. And problems like this are exactly why companies need to give their developers even a small amount of time to document what they do. I've even documented stuff in my spare time, off the clock, and had it deleted because "no one will ever need that stuff."

Roukan wrote:

Walrus said the reason is because none of them know how to work the tool to make the old cinematics.

You know, it makes me really sad to hear that. Just in general, nowhere I've ever worked and nothing I've ever worked on has been documented. And problems like this are exactly why companies need to give their developers even a small amount of time to document what they do. I've even documented stuff in my spare time, off the clock, and had it deleted because "no one will ever need that stuff."

Damage for Interlock combat rounds are calculated as if they were 4 seconds long. In truth a round takes exaclty the length of time for all animations for that round to play. We really tried to make the rounds come out as close to 4 seconds as possible however events beyond our control took our animator from us before everything could be truely polished which is why Bullet time animations appear so messed up alot of the time.