[8.1.2] This war is their doing - Recursion - 7/25/07

Operatives,

It was my pleasure to answer your questions concerning the ongoing security situation. We know that we can count on your assistance to remove this new Zionite threat to the System.

Efficientemente,

Agent Pace
System Liaison

I believe, from reading these logs, that I saw a small flicker of the old Pace there, just for an instant, while they were in Zeitgeist.

Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:

But maybe that's just me. After all, I'm just a warmongering, weapon-building, hate-inspiring, bluepill-killing Zionite who has always been a terrorist and has never supported the Truce.

But maybe that's just me. After all, I'm just a warmongering, weapon-building, hate-inspiring, bluepill-killing Zionite who has always been a terrorist and has never supported the Truce.

Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:

Now, why should we be concerned?  I had always assumed we were monitored in some way.  There has to be some kind of oversight, so that dangerous or unstable people can't get into positions where they can do real damage...unless you're in Zion, where people like Anome can rise to the top of the ranks. 

Like I said, we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Anyway, I'm surprised no Zionite or EPN has had something to say about Pace's statement "The One is dead, Ms. Dodson, and the anomaly eliminated."

Illyria

The One may be dead, the anomaly eliminated.  However she does not say that the one known as Neo is dead.  I am surprised to see this break in their complete silence over the issue.

Now, why should we be concerned?  I had always assumed we were monitored in some way.  There has to be some kind of oversight, so that dangerous or unstable people can't get into positions where they can do real damage...unless you're in Zion, where people like Anome can rise to the top of the ranks. 

Like I said, we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Anyway, I'm surprised no Zionite or EPN has had something to say about Pace's statement "The One is dead, Ms. Dodson, and the anomaly eliminated."

If I were you, I'd re-evaluate that statement, because there is gravity to those words beyond your suggestion of monitoring. They have taken measures to ensure that you do not become a threat to the System.

Now being that they cannot read your minds, and have no way of controlling your actions, I'd say they don't much have a way to stop you before you become a problem if they're just monitoring you. Oh, maybe they could stop you after you've become a threat. But as it stands, they've got no way to stop you before you become a threat.

Now, this suggests that they're going to do something to you once you've finished helping them decimate Zion. Something I'd be willing to bet you won't like - being overwritten, killed, hovercraft swarmed and destroyed by Machines. They know where your ships are, right? Hah! It doesn't matter how, really, but the facts have been stated.

They're going to take away your freedom to think and act on your own, so that you can never become a threat to the System by some means. There is no other way to keep a human being from doing something.

That being said, the fact that these precautions have never come into effect is a testament to the Machinists' loyalty and the value the Machines see in our service.

Now, this suggests that they're going to do something to you once you've finished helping them decimate Zion. Something I'd be willing to bet you won't like - being overwritten, killed, hovercraft swarmed and destroyed by Machines. They know where your ships are, right? Hah! It doesn't matter how, really, but the facts have been stated.

They're going to take away your freedom to think and act on your own, so that you can never become a threat to the System by some means. There is no other way to keep a human being from doing something.

Like I said, we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Anyway, I'm surprised no Zionite or EPN has had something to say about Pace's statement "The One is dead, Ms. Dodson, and the anomaly eliminated."

Illyria

Illyria22 wrote:

Like I said, we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Anyway, I'm surprised no Zionite or EPN has had something to say about Pace's statement "The One is dead, Ms. Dodson, and the anomaly eliminated."

Illyria

Just needed to be patient, that's all. I'm saying something about it now.

What she didn't tell you that the Colonel himself said is that the "anomaly" is systemic. Because it doesn't exist as Neo at this time doesn't mean it won't emerge again. It is a flaw in the system. If the system was flawless, people wouldn't reject it on their own.

Another thing that I see most Machinists haven't realized is that many of us already considered "The One" to be dead anyway. But that's even more reason for us to take action and do things for ourselves. This doesn't demoralize us, it strengthens us. The saviors in many religions and systems of belief are dead, yet people still live, think, and do for themselves without being plugged into and dependent on the Machine. We have done so and will continue to do so.

Thats not how they want you to respond! You're supose to say "lawl N30 not deadz! He pwns j00 all in 2 dirts nubs!". Wait never mind thats how they're going to read it anyway.

Neoteny wrote:

Now, this suggests that they're going to do something to you once you've finished helping them decimate Zion. Something I'd be willing to bet you won't like - being overwritten, killed, hovercraft swarmed and destroyed by Machines. They know where your ships are, right? Hah! It doesn't matter how, really, but the facts have been stated.

They're going to take away your freedom to think and act on your own, so that you can never become a threat to the System by some means. There is no other way to keep a human being from doing something.

Once we finish them decimate Zion, as you put it, if that's what the eventual outcome is, our purpose will still be the same, to protect the simulation and those who rely upon it for their survival.
There would be no reason for the Machines to rid themselves of a valuable resource, there will always be threats to the system beyond the current threats.

Machinists have been employed by the Machines because we can evaluate what we do and act in accordance with guidelines approved by the Machines. These guidelines are no different from any laws that govern any civilised society.

The statement provided by Pace only confirms that we are continually monitored for our safety and efficiency and they would be, in fact, be able to prevent a Machinist from becoming a threat as probability routines are always functioning and evaluating.

Once again an enemy to the system and Machinists jumps on a statement made by an official of that system and only sees as much as they need to to twist it around in order to try to make us question our beliefs.

What is naive, is thinking that EPN and Zion propaganda will make us question our ethics and ideals.

Now, this suggests that they're going to do something to you once you've finished helping them decimate Zion. Something I'd be willing to bet you won't like - being overwritten, killed, hovercraft swarmed and destroyed by Machines. They know where your ships are, right? Hah! It doesn't matter how, really, but the facts have been stated.

Sometimes soldiers have to give their lives for the greater good.  I would do this voluntarily if it meant that billions of my fellow human beings would survive.  Not that I want to be overwritten or killed, of course...it's just that I knew when I got into this that I might not make it to retirement age. 

Pyraci wrote:

What she didn't tell you that the Colonel himself said is that the "anomaly" is systemic. Because it doesn't exist as Neo at this time doesn't mean it won't emerge again. It is a flaw in the system. If the system was flawless, people wouldn't reject it on their own.

Another thing that I see most Machinists haven't realized is that many of us already considered "The One" to be dead anyway. But that's even more reason for us to take action and do things for ourselves. This doesn't demoralize us, it strengthens us.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of this in terms of demoralizing Zion or EPN; I was looking at it as a hint as to where the cycle of the Matrix and the One is paused.  (And I agree that the anomaly will emerge again, but only after the cycle is restarted.)  Because it was said the anomaly was eliminated, I'm taking this to mean that the most recent version of the One has fulfilled his purpose, and the prime program has already returned to the Source.  This would remove the anomaly from the current iteration of the Matrix -- the one that's nearing its end.  So the next step after this in the cycle is the destruction of Zion.  But we've been paused in the cycle between the return of the One to the Source and this next step.

My prediction is that the final phase of the cycle is coming.  Zion will be destroyed and the cycle will be restarted. 

Illyria

Croesus wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Now, this suggests that they're going to do something to you once you've finished helping them decimate Zion. Something I'd be willing to bet you won't like - being overwritten, killed, hovercraft swarmed and destroyed by Machines. They know where your ships are, right? Hah! It doesn't matter how, really, but the facts have been stated.

They're going to take away your freedom to think and act on your own, so that you can never become a threat to the System by some means. There is no other way to keep a human being from doing something.

Once we finish them decimate Zion, as you put it, if that's what the eventual outcome is, our purpose will still be the same, to protect the simulation and those who rely upon it for their survival.
There would be no reason for the Machines to rid themselves of a valuable resource, there will always be threats to the system beyond the current threats.

Machinists have been employed by the Machines because we can evaluate what we do and act in accordance with guidelines approved by the Machines. These guidelines are no different from any laws that govern any civilised society.

The statement provided by Pace only confirms that we are continually monitored for our safety and efficiency and they would be, in fact, be able to prevent a Machinist from becoming a threat as probability routines are always functioning and evaluating.

Once again an enemy to the system and Machinists jumps on a statement made by an official of that system and only sees as much as they need to to twist it around in order to try to make us question our beliefs.

What is naive, is thinking that EPN and Zion propaganda will make us question our ethics and ideals.

The truth is never convenient. For that, I apologize.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of this in terms of demoralizing Zion or EPN; I was looking at it as a hint as to where the cycle of the Matrix and the One is paused.  (And I agree that the anomaly will emerge again, but only after the cycle is restarted.)  Because it was said the anomaly was eliminated, I'm taking this to mean that the most recent version of the One has fulfilled his purpose, and the prime program has already returned to the Source.  This would remove the anomaly from the current iteration of the Matrix -- the one that's nearing its end.  So the next step after this in the cycle is the destruction of Zion.  But we've been paused in the cycle between the return of the One to the Source and this next step.

My prediction is that the final phase of the cycle is coming.  Zion will be destroyed and the cycle will be restarted. 

Illyria

Agent Gray: In the past, the city was repopulated following a reset of the simulation. A vital factor contributing to such a reset no longer exists. Therefore, the old system of re-establishing the city of Zion is no longer valid, and may not be necessary.

Sorry but when Neo died so did the cycle.

*edit* Source

Agent Gray: In the past, the city was repopulated following a reset of the simulation. A vital factor contributing to such a reset no longer exists. Therefore, the old system of re-establishing the city of Zion is no longer valid, and may not be necessary.

Sorry but when Neo died so did the cycle.

Illyria22 wrote:

Like I said, we have to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

Anyway, I'm surprised no Zionite or EPN has had something to say about Pace's statement "The One is dead, Ms. Dodson, and the anomaly eliminated."

Illyria

Just needed to be patient, that's all. I'm saying something about it now.

What she didn't tell you that the Colonel himself said is that the "anomaly" is systemic. Because it doesn't exist as Neo at this time doesn't mean it won't emerge again. It is a flaw in the system. If the system was flawless, people wouldn't reject it on their own.

Another thing that I see most Machinists haven't realized is that many of us already considered "The One" to be dead anyway. But that's even more reason for us to take action and do things for ourselves. This doesn't demoralize us, it strengthens us. The saviors in many religions and systems of belief are dead, yet people still live, think, and do for themselves without being plugged into and dependent on the Machine. We have done so and will continue to do so.

Neoteny wrote:

Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:

I'm thinking the same thing.  This little statement reminded me of how the Merv took control of the General's forces.  Seems like the Machines have something hidden with which to eliminate any possible rogue Machinists. 

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

GypsyJuggler wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:

I'm thinking the same thing.  This little statement reminded me of how the Merv took control of the General's forces.  Seems like the Machines have something hidden with which to eliminate any possible rogue Machinists. 

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

When nothing I was saying was getting responded to, I acted on a hunch and emoted at the Agents. I had been put on ignore. Whats the point at attending a Q&A event, if you can't get an A for your Q?

NightTrace wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Hmm. Anyhow, if I were a Machinist, I would be most concerned about this little statement:

I'm thinking the same thing.  This little statement reminded me of how the Merv took control of the General's forces.  Seems like the Machines have something hidden with which to eliminate any possible rogue Machinists. 

Also; did NightTrace get fed up and leave after no new information/instructions were forthcoming?

When nothing I was saying was getting responded to, I acted on a hunch and emoted at the Agents. I had been put on ignore. Whats the point at attending a Q&A event, if you can't get an A for your Q?

Yea, but as we seen here, you weren't put on ignored, we can read your typings on the LE post, and yes there was a Q&A session, but apparently it was part one of a two part event.  I'm sorry I didn't stick around for the second part, I didn't realize there was going to be a second part. 

I still wish I'd ask Gray if reinsertion was a lie, eh I'll have another chance. 

ZaneZavin wrote:

The One may be dead, the anomaly eliminated.  However she does not say that the one known as Neo is dead.  I am surprised to see this break in their complete silence over the issue.

Neo = The One.
The One = Dead.
Logic follows.
Neo = Dead.

/mirror/images/en/forum_posts/070725_pace_recursion/006.jpg

From that point on, I was on ignore.

Pyraci wrote:

Just needed to be patient, that's all. I'm saying something about it now.

What she didn't tell you that the Colonel himself said is that the "anomaly" is systemic. Because it doesn't exist as Neo at this time doesn't mean it won't emerge again. It is a flaw in the system. If the system was flawless, people wouldn't reject it on their own.

Another thing that I see most Machinists haven't realized is that many of us already considered "The One" to be dead anyway. But that's even more reason for us to take action and do things for ourselves. This doesn't demoralize us, it strengthens us. The saviors in many religions and systems of belief are dead, yet people still live, think, and do for themselves without being plugged into and dependent on the Machine. We have done so and will continue to do so.

Rebuttal:  No, you won't.  Sentinels have this interesting habit of ending life.

Machines are such fools, we are no longer under their control or in their crosshairs and this is how they react. Thank you Agent Gray for openly admitting the it was the machines who terminated the truce.Aggressive base? Are you kidding me? We will defend ourselves like we have before and you Machinists just love believing everything you are told, how about demanding to see proof, not once has your superiors shown you any evidence the this new base is capable of  attacking.This is about control and now that they no longer have it are so quickly trying to regain it and using you to  do it.

Why would you even assume that Zion has any intentions of harming the system, this is the part I don't get. You assume too much and it is your superiors that have engaged in hostilities against us, like I said before this is about control and they will not stop until they get us back in a position of control.The Architect is a program that I or Neo was never to fond of because he never believed in the truce anyway.It is the machines who need to lay down their arms and just let us be.

A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

MetaDisc wrote:

A few shots of Pace...and myself, ReProgrammed......Not to mention a good shot of us taking down some zionite....And the shot of her checking me out. XD

I can understand if you post some of your own screenshots, or just a single shot if your argument requires it, but why re-post multiple screenshots from the initial post? If you really feel the need to, why don't you just post direct links the the images you are posting about?

 Thank you Agent Gray for openly admitting the it was the machines who terminated the truce.

Saying the Machines restarted the war on Zion by 'terminating' the truce was over is kind of like saying that the US started the war against Japan in 1941! 

Just because they were the first to say it officially doesn't mean they were the first to commit hostilities.  There is a big difference between going to war against a country that's an innocent bystander (for example, Germany vs. Belgium in WW2) and going to war due to the increased hostilities of that country (Japan bombing Pearl Harbor).  But the Machines stating that the truce with Zion was over -- like the USA declaring war on Japan in 1941 -- was a response to a hostile action by what is basically a foreign power. 

Illyria

The analogy is sound; both Japan and Zion did something they knew would be construed as hostile by a foreign government.  And of course human history should be brought up -- we don't exist in a vacuum with no knowledge of what our species has done in the past.  Human history has shown how badly us humans can treat our environment, other species (not just the Machines), and our own species.  Human history provides a basis for anticipating what humans might do in the future.

Illyria

The analogy is sound; both Japan and Zion did something they knew would be construed as hostile by a foreign government.  And of course human history should be brought up -- we don't exist in a vacuum with no knowledge of what our species has done in the past.  Human history has shown how badly us humans can treat our environment, other species (not just the Machines), and our own species.  Human history provides a basis for anticipating what humans might do in the future.

Illyria

There is a fundamental difference.

The US did not declare war on Japan when they found out that they were an Axis member with bombers capable of striking the Pacific US. They declared war when Japan used them in an attack on the US.

The Machines called a Pre-Emptive strike. They attacked before we did a thing, because they feared that we might develop technology with which to attack. I'm still waiting for Zion's great assault on the Machine city, by the way.

I'm still waiting for Zion's great assault on the Machine city, by the way.