Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

93 posts · 2006-11-15 14:48:27 to 2006-11-28 03:22:12

#36300096790 11/16/2006 03:21:42 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Mario jump? Which one is that?
#36300096805 11/16/2006 03:51:59 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Sneaker wrote:
Anamodiel wrote:
Why did we opt for adding a trail to Hyperjump rather than getting rid of the Mario jump?

-_-

Nope, no Zerg Easy Mode for you folks SMILEY
I'm actually curious and not trying to flame you here.

How does taking out the Mario jump and only using the reticle to HJ make it "easy Zerg mode"? I personally think it would add a dynamic to PVP. You would have to anticipate where the person would jump next. We would have to work together to catch the person and it wouldn't be as easy. You wouldn't have to worry about the buggy Mario jump (reverse HJ, anyone?) when tracking someone, either.

Or make it so you can only use the Mario jump when you're not in the combat state for those that absolutely love the buggy HJ system. I think that'd be better than trails that disappear at the top of the hyperjump arc.
#36300096806 11/16/2006 04:00:19 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Offer some clarification please.   Are /face and /follow to be removed completely from the game or are they merely going to be disabled for targeted hostile players? (like /addwaypoint was disabled only for hostile players.) If the slash commands are to be removed completely, will the key bindings still work?

/face and /follow are invaluable for team play and role-playing.  For role-play, quickly targeting and facing your target adds a touch of realism and focus for both the speaker and the audience.  /follow is needed for team play.  If you can’t follow the leader, it makes things a lot harder for new players. I can understand how /face and /follow should be disabled for PvP, and possibly for the unique event characters, but they should definitely not be removed from the game.  Just today I was on /follow all the way down into a hideout.  I can’t imagine being tied to manual running for such a purpose. 

Don’t remove /face and /follow for friendly players.  Just don’t do it; it will ruin several aspects of game play, including applying upgrades and other abilities while automatically following a teammate.  I get enough of “where did you go?” from new players who haven’t figured out that they can track with Team, Map and Atlas and the answer is always, “/follow me!”

Contrails: eh, OK…. six of one kind, half dozen of another

Reverse HyperJump: I discovered this for myself just a couple of days ago.  I have HyperJump bound to my mouse wheel click, and by clicking it repeatedly it is possible to land back where you started after many arc-jumps.  I’m not sure how this could be fixed easily because of how the choice of the landing spot of a ctrl-space HyperJump works.  I hardly ever use the hotbar targeted HyperJump, preferring the ctrl-space (or mousewheel click for me.)  It’s much faster and it’s easy to choose a landing spot once you get the hang of it. 
#36300096814 11/16/2006 04:06:44 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Anamodiel wrote:
Or make it so you can only use the Mario jump when you're not in the combat state

MY GOD, A GOOD IDEA?!
#36300096820 11/16/2006 04:17:18 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Dagonet wrote:
Anamodiel wrote:
Or make it so you can only use the Mario jump when you're not in the combat state

MY GOD, A GOOD IDEA?!


HEY WHY NOT JUST MAKE IT SO YOU CAN'T HYPER JUMP AT ALL!!. WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!

 (see sarcasm)

#36300096822 11/16/2006 04:18:46 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Dagonet wrote:
Anamodiel wrote:
Or make it so you can only use the Mario jump when you're not in the combat state

MY GOD, A GOOD IDEA?!

the response i always get for that one is...what about NPC's, events etc etc
#36300096847 11/16/2006 04:53:46 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
More to aid vastly overwhelming numbers, peachy.
#36300096862 11/16/2006 05:57:52 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

Ctrl+space is the ONLY way you can reliably get out of a Zerg situation, when you are being attacked from 6 different sides (which isnt unusual if the Zerg is Zion) you dont have time to select the rectcle, zoom out find a place that you can land (assuming you dont go throught the usual 360degree turn that uncontrollably grips your rsi, and assuming that in that momnet you havent had your evade broken and been IL'ed) etc.

There is a curious, dissapointing and ignorant determination to reduce all fights to the level of duels..... pvp is about more than just the fight it is about hunting and being pursued, its is about stealth, timing, oppertunity and much more than just nobly facing your foe and going toe to toe (I say nobly but duels only work to emphasise the fact this is a game - in the real world a duel to the death=the stupidest descision you could ever take).

The trails look pretty good to me, are far from intrusive and will nice bridge the gap left by the loss of /follow and /face. 

#36300096863 11/16/2006 05:59:46 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Yasamuu1 wrote:
Dagonet wrote:
Anamodiel wrote:
Or make it so you can only use the Mario jump when you're not in the combat state

MY GOD, A GOOD IDEA?!

the response i always get for that one is...what about NPC's, events etc etc

NPC's should be dangerous. When dealing with NPC's, you should at least have to worry a LITTLE about being caught and killed. Mario jump is a cheap escape from there if you're in the combat state.

As for events, you can still use the reticle. It isn't like they're entirely taking out Hyperjump. I don't see what the big deal is... Maybe someone can enlighten me a bit more?

Tytanya_MxO wrote:

Ctrl+space is the ONLY way you can reliably get out of a Zerg situation, when you are being attacked from 6 different sides (which isnt unusual if the Zerg is Zion) you dont have time to select the rectcle, zoom out find a place that you can land (assuming you dont go throught the usual 360degree turn that uncontrollably grips your rsi, and assuming that in that momnet you havent had your evade broken and been IL'ed) etc.

There is a curious, dissapointing and ignorant determination to reduce all fights to the level of duels..... pvp is about more than just the fight it is about hunting and being pursued, its is about stealth, timing, oppertunity and much more than just nobly facing your foe and going toe to toe (I say nobly but duels only work to emphasise the fact this is a game - in the real world a duel to the death=the stupidest descision you could ever take).

The trails look pretty good to me, are far from intrusive and will nice bridge the gap left by the loss of /follow and /face. 

It's not that hard to jump up 10 ft from the Mara hardline to the bridge. That would then mean that everyone would have to follow you, too, by using the same HJ reticle. Then, while they're jumping up, you could start targetting the next building to jump to. This would add to the dynamic of anticipating where your enemy will land.

If they do take out the Mario jump, they need to fix the 360 thing. But they can't just give us the trail (which disappears at the crux of the HJ, btw) and have a bugged Mario Jump. SOMETHING needs to be done to HJ. That's all I'm saying.

#36300096868 11/16/2006 06:09:18 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Well I like the ideas... stops the pvp fags from HJing away...
#36300096875 11/16/2006 06:27:08 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

Maybe someone can enlighten me a bit more?

As a machine, and admittedly primarily by choice, I pvp alone.  Even if this wasn't the case, and due to the time of day I'm on, I'll find myself alone regardless.  In order to gain the slightest modicum of success, I will often be in the middle of a crowd of hostiles as I'm IL'd with the weakest build there, or facing a 2/3 v 1 situation if I've managed to draw a small number out. 

In the event that I've bitten off more than I can chew, hyperjump is my only means of escape.  The /face command is a valid way for the group to track me once I've made said escape, but as I only have to get out of targeting range, it is by no means a guaranteed method.  /ok, /salute etc are also used as a clandestine alternative to /face, and can still be used if /face gets cut from the system.  The new contrails, in addition to the aforementioned commands, gives a huge advantage to the chasing group.  You can argue that I could run instead of using HJ, but if the group has any sense they'll have one person following the contrails, whilst another uses a directional command to follow me. 

With the old HJ, you could just keep going until you made it out of an opponents range.  With the contrails, they now have a visual representation of your direction, as well as follow commands they can still use.  Your escape now depends on whether or not the opponent can summon the will to follow you.  As they'll have a big, shiny beacon trailing the jumper I'm sure this is a foregone conclusion. 

As Tytanya said, it seems the game is encouraging the prevalence of duels as opposed to spontaneous battles.       

#36300096876 11/16/2006 06:27:19 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

With countless different ways to root, immobilise or tie an opponent to the ground available to every tree, disabling the cntrl+space from of the jump seems pandering to the inept and/or extremely lazy.

And to what end? Making kills so much easier? Removing the 'hands on' part of the challenge (rather than the background number crunching)? Is the kill so very nescessary to you? Are cq's so valuable you must always ensure your enemy gives one up?

As we consider what might be a more realistic environment less killing and more 'making people run' actually qualifies as a significant improvement.

Edit: The trails do assist the pursuing party, but I can accept that as a challenge when escaping...but yeah urgently it is impromtu or typical pvp that needs some love, not more restrictions insisting on long battles tied from the very first blow!

#36300096880 11/16/2006 06:39:15 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

You're Tytanya, you never have to escape because no one ever knows you're there!

Kidding aside, with the innumerable methods of tying another to the ground, escaping is already a challenge for an MA working outside of their jurisdiction.  The contrails will be aesthetically pleasing I'm sure, but as the lone machine in a sea of hostiles, I envisage them being my downfall.  I look forward to the challenge, but wonder where pvp is heading with these new additions.

#36300096895 11/16/2006 07:13:38 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

To be honest, I never had much of a problem with people using /face. I STILL managed to escape regardless. Alot of people that have tried to catch me know that. There's sooo many wayy's you can loose someone. Using manual hyperrjump, using the loading area, BAMF to another hardline. Run to an elevator and use it. I was being chased by a group of furious angels once and started up a mission as a tempory safe zone. (LOL!! ) by all means, its good for those that have face and auto run macro'd. or use autorun and face without the macro for that matter. I think the contrails are a good alternative.

Besides, there's no fun in pvp if your not being chased. SMILEY

spha x

#36300096898 11/16/2006 07:18:15 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Sphairo87 wrote:

I was being chased by a group of furious angels once and started up a mission as a tempory safe zone.

Besides, there's no fun in pvp if your not being chased. SMILEY

spha x


Haha, never thought of doing that before, I imagine they weren't impressed.

Correct, being chased is fun.  However, escaping is better SMILEY

Like everything else, we'll have to wait and see what happens.  I envisage a dramatic increase in being ok'd and saluted.

#36300096901 11/16/2006 07:20:52 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

But if people DO start using ok and salute.. at least you will be able to see it in system chat (surely? ) so if they do it enough times and you compile enough incident's of them using/abusing it, you can ccr them.

/banstick 2.0

spha x

#36300096909 11/16/2006 07:30:59 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
ex has a very valid question there, where is pvp heading?

I envision a day when all you will see are gunmen and mkt's

The only people who still load martial arts are people who hope their opponents will also be martial artists or hope to zerg their opponent and look good doing it.

People who load hacker in this system either load it as a pure support class (ie, I'll h4x0r them while you keep them busy) or are just flat out courageous.

Assume for a moment that a player's given skill level remains the same for all classes.
Their kill/death ratio is going to be higher with a spy or gunman class than with an martial arts class.

One of the primary reasons for this is because it is much easier to escape with a free fire class than with an interlock class. The primary method of escape being ctrl-space hyperjump.

Interlock classes are given the following tools to get someone into and keep in interlock: powerless, enrage, confuse, stun, force combat upgrade

Free fire classes are given the following tools to keep someone from interlocking them or get out of interlock: various escape moves, a plethora of roots and slows, pacify(hacker only), powerless, force combat downgrades, stun, evade combat upgrade, sneak/concealment/invis, hyperjump

Where is pvp heading? Free fire and zerg.
#36300096911 11/16/2006 07:35:11 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Sphairo87 wrote:

But if people DO start using ok and salute.. at least you will be able to see it in system chat (surely? ) so if they do it enough times and you compile enough incident's of them using/abusing it, you can ccr them.

/banstick 2.0

spha x


Why should you /ccr them comon what good is PvP if you could just roll out and jump, the system is good as it is and although it is annoying when being chased its also fun and adds a new concept, atleast whilst there being chased ppl cant just sit and run back into PvP so quickly. 
#36300096914 11/16/2006 07:40:07 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
mitez wrote:
Sphairo87 wrote:

But if people DO start using ok and salute.. at least you will be able to see it in system chat (surely? ) so if they do it enough times and you compile enough incident's of them using/abusing it, you can ccr them.

/banstick 2.0

spha x


Why should you /ccr them comon what good is PvP if you could just roll out and jump, the system is good as it is and although it is annoying when being chased its also fun and adds a new concept, atleast whilst there being chased ppl cant just sit and run back into PvP so quickly. 

Yeah. Definately agree with you there. But People do not nescesarily (can never spell that properly ~_~ ) need to abuse the emotes. They'll be able to give a good chase using the contrails!

spha x

#36300096916 11/16/2006 07:45:50 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
I like the idea, but in the picture it kinda looks like the guy jumping is a jet fighter with the trails.
#36300096929 11/16/2006 08:00:36 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

I don't like the idea, but only because I think it's a waste of valuable dev resources.

 This reeks of a crybaby feature.  "Wahhh, I almost had them down and they rolled out and hyperjumped away! Wahhhh"

 I mean, hey, I don't mind having contrails on my feet when I hyperjump away, it'll look cool. But as an experienced pvp coward, I don't think this is going to encourage pursuit unless hyperjump itself is changed.  Contrails or not, if I make my first hyperjump, I am gone, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Yet, anyway...

 PS I can't believe there's still people out there who ctrl-space to hyperjump. You haven't changed your key bindings yet? Nyuk, nyuk.

#36300096942 11/16/2006 08:18:59 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Dagonet wrote:
ex has a very valid question there, where is pvp heading?

I envision a day when all you will see are gunmen and mkt's

The only people who still load martial arts are people who hope their opponents will also be martial artists or hope to zerg their opponent and look good doing it.

People who load hacker in this system either load it as a pure support class (ie, I'll h4x0r them while you keep them busy) or are just flat out courageous.

Assume for a moment that a player's given skill level remains the same for all classes.
Their kill/death ratio is going to be higher with a spy or gunman class than with an martial arts class.

One of the primary reasons for this is because it is much easier to escape with a free fire class than with an interlock class. The primary method of escape being ctrl-space hyperjump.

Interlock classes are given the following tools to get someone into and keep in interlock: powerless, enrage, confuse, stun, force combat upgrade

Free fire classes are given the following tools to keep someone from interlocking them or get out of interlock: various escape moves, a plethora of roots and slows, pacify(hacker only), powerless, force combat downgrades, stun, evade combat upgrade, sneak/concealment/invis, hyperjump

Where is pvp heading? Free fire and zerg.
I share your concerns here but what is happening to date is making gobal changes that affect all pvp and not targetting the instances that need most help. IMO the multifighting ability needs to be employed for IL classes, there have been a few discussions of what it could do but far and away the best is to offer a defence and/or resistance buff to free fire attacks while the player is in IL..... this strategy would allow IL combat to be played through to a proper conclusion and leave the winner with an option to escape... atm IL against all but the most even of odds is a virtual deathtrap.... we want to encourage and see more varied and diverse pvp, the IL classes need help.... BUT only while they are IL'ed in other circumstances they need to be targets for other classes etc.
#36300096992 11/16/2006 09:13:13 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Dagonet wrote:
The only people who still load martial arts are people who hope their opponents will also be martial artists or hope to zerg their opponent and look good doing it.

Dag, I resent that.

I look great when I zerg.  SMILEY

I think the contrails are a nice compensation for the butchering of /face and /follow.  Of course, I (along with a vast majority of the rest of the community) would rather have the commands be left alone.  But hey, if this is the way it's gotta be, then the contrails are a reasonable substitute.  I just wish the devs wouldn't feel the need to fill one hole by digging another one.  It just seems more reasonable to have left /face /follow as they were, rather than changing them and then adding something to make up for the change.

And I'm glad to see Rarebit state that "Mario Jump" isn't going anywhere.  It may be used/abused during pvp, but I think Mario Jump is the best way to explore Mega City.

#36300097033 11/16/2006 10:57:38 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Aquatium. wrote:

Well Ive been tracking without face just like I used to from before for a while now, but this is something, however quick thing, and please say yes. IF I have "effects = None" selected, it wont show the trails right? otherwise you just messed up screenshots and video editing for a lot of ppl.

I would like the Effects toggle to work. It has never worked correctly. Maybe one day we'll finally be able to fix it.
#36300097037 11/16/2006 11:01:27 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Rarebit wrote:
Aquatium. wrote:

Well Ive been tracking without face just like I used to from before for a while now, but this is something, however quick thing, and please say yes. IF I have "effects = None" selected, it wont show the trails right? otherwise you just messed up screenshots and video editing for a lot of ppl.

I would like the Effects toggle to work. It has never worked correctly. Maybe one day we'll finally be able to fix it.

Wait....so we're are going to be stuck with these big ugly arse white lines all over the sky in our videos? Yeesh it mean an end to FA's HJ co-ordination...
#36300097051 11/16/2006 11:18:43 Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
My personal belief, regarding PvP, is that we suffered because of a lack of /teamduel. While you may say "duh", go along with me.

There's way too much of a lone-gunman ideal going on in the game. With the minor exception of missions, which still isn't too challenging to solo, there's no real encouragement to team up properly in a real team - a couple MAs, a Gunman or two, maybe a few hackers, and most lackingly a Doctor/Upgrade Artist - particularly in PvP. I cannot comment on the scene in Vector, but all I know is what I see, and on the Non-Hostile servers all I see is a load of people in a few select places. There may be one or two Doctor's using mass-heals, but other than that...

Why team duel has caused this? Not only because PvP quickly derides into a free-for-all, but also because we've not had chance to practice in this sort of tactic.

Maybe I'm whining. Maybe I'm completely wrong. Then again, I don't mind it when an Image Retrieval isn't a new skin or some plot-related picture. So yeah, I must be.
#36300097067 11/16/2006 11:40:20 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Sneaker wrote:
Anamodiel wrote:
Why did we opt for adding a trail to Hyperjump rather than getting rid of the Mario jump?

-_-

Nope, no Zerg Easy Mode for you folks SMILEY


Yay for Sneaker.... Showing us all how access to places such as the champagne room and other forums that only a few moderate people may get to,  gives the results you want.  I wonder how that conversation between you and the Dev's went? 

Sneak "Yeah, guys I don't like this /face thing... "

Dev "Why"

Sneak "Well people keep tracking me down and killing me"

Dev "Hmmm...."

Sneak "Yeah most people don't like /face.  It's pretty unfair"

Dev "Wow... Good point.  Let's take it out."

Sneak "Hey thanks SMILEY "

Dev "NP... Hey if you have any other suggestions then just post them on the Champagne forums... (Or whatever they are called now)" 

Sneak "Will do man.... Man just wait till I get done with MKT and Hacker.... Muwhahahahahaha"

#36300097074 11/16/2006 11:43:20 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
...The Community Summit had it's Champagne taken away before everything was shut down.  Get over it.

Are there any other dead topics that the community would like to hold on to?  Oh my, Live Events Team should come back!!!  Morpheus is alive!!!  People are suppose to change with the times, what is stopping us?
#36300097133 11/16/2006 12:48:39 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
SMILEY

This is going to make MxO Machinima less... How do you say... Hmm... I can also imagine people doing hundreds of short hyperjumps in an area just to grief folks involved with events or something. I haven't had to do this in a long time:

/twothumbsdown
#36300097141 11/16/2006 12:58:18 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
You know what? I would rather have had /afk instead of WHITE BLOODY LINES STREAKING ACROSS THE SKY......
#36300097173 11/16/2006 13:22:54 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Trax wrote:
Rarebit wrote:
Aquatium. wrote:

Well Ive been tracking without face just like I used to from before for a while now, but this is something, however quick thing, and please say yes. IF I have "effects = None" selected, it wont show the trails right? otherwise you just messed up screenshots and video editing for a lot of ppl.

I would like the Effects toggle to work. It has never worked correctly. Maybe one day we'll finally be able to fix it.

Wait....so we're are going to be stuck with these big ugly arse white lines all over the sky in our videos? Yeesh it mean an end to FA's HJ co-ordination...

SMILEY
#36300097372 11/16/2006 18:26:27 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

*sigh* ok new feature added to the pointless list

luggables

/afk

HJ trail...

hmm wonder what else they might give us next. sword sheath? ( pointless without the sword)

Ok come on i know u guys are working hard but stop giving us pointless little features and give the game something good. look at just last week u guys posted the pacify area now thats a good feature all these other minis are just pointless and a waster of you own time to make. give us something we could use with exitement and that could give the game life! give us something to do something of interest. like a new type of PB type thing.  you know what you should do show us yor ideas for new features and we can vote on which ones might be goo to have in game so we can vote out the pointless and stupid ones !!?

#36300097373 11/16/2006 18:29:02 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006

/twothumbsdown to HJ White Lines....

BOOOOOO!!!! HISSSSSS!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! SMILEY

#36300097377 11/16/2006 18:32:46 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
and please just do us all a favor and end the whole anome episode already jesus anomes had two whole episodes already.
#36300097419 11/16/2006 19:39:22 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Rarebit wrote:
They disappear right away if the person leaves the visible set (the "ball of light" effect plays when that happens), or if the person lands.

Well... That's good, I guess. We'll see how it plays out. Might actually look interesting.

Hey, do you think it would be possible to add a very faint puff of dust or something at the end of a hyperjump? I think it would look pretty cool; could be a replacement for those white circles that always able above your head anyways. I mean, without cracks on the ground after landing a jump and all, hyperjumps have always been really static.
#36300097431 11/16/2006 19:51:43 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Longer contrails are needed, why? For those who can't track their targets without a "/" command? If it is.... sad.
#36300097556 11/17/2006 02:56:51 Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
I think it makes good use of a visual 'realistic' 'player skill' element rather than an exploitation of the emote system.

As for these little things being pointless, remember its little things, little shines and improvements which better the experience as a whole.

Thus is the main focus of update 48

And of course im not saying we dont need bigger gameplay content-o things. of course not. But given the current size of the dev team i think its understandable they have to split their time every now and then.

Now if we had more devs it would be a different story.
#36300097618 11/17/2006 04:31:30 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Very Nice! =D
#36300097634 11/17/2006 04:47:19 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Xeros wrote:
...The Community Summit had it's Champagne taken away before everything was shut down.  Get over it.

Are there any other dead topics that the community would like to hold on to?  Oh my, Live Events Team should come back!!!  Morpheus is alive!!!  People are suppose to change with the times, what is stopping us?
just move on guys life changes and so should u go xeros ftw
#36300101975 11/22/2006 15:01:58 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
O_O
#36300102153 11/22/2006 21:12:44 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
theres a buggy with the link from the latest winter image retival cause it brougt me here
#36300102231 11/22/2006 23:53:06 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Sexy pic though. =P SMILEY
#36300106141 11/28/2006 03:22:12 Re:Image Retrieval - November 15, 2006
Who needs the lady in red when we have the sexier one in WHITE!