26 posts · 2006-03-08 14:07:23 to 2006-03-12 21:12:33
#3550000018903/08/2006 14:07:23Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Ok I just spend a nice amount of time doing some PVP and Dueling and i've started to think that it takes waaaay too long to break someones Evade Combat shield even if your a higher or equal level to the person your trying to interlock.
I personally felt the Evade Combat function was perfectly fine for CR1.0, they basically get their one evade which buys them enough time to get off one or maybe two critical moves before succumbing to interlock.
Go back to the original evade system.
#3550000019003/08/2006 14:23:18Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Agreed one resist should be the typical result for equal levels before a break. Yesterday in a battle i tried four time unsucessfully to burst and evade bubble, in an intense battle that would again have everything disintegrate into free fire only, which no one really wants I feel.
To be perfectly honest I was really hoping the evade sheild would be dispensed with altogether it looks silly and makes no real sense, simply deal with resist combat and force combat and use the result to determine the initiative of the initial IL....someone with a high reisst combat will effectively get the first hit and score one sided damage etc.
Message Edited by Tytanya_MxO on 03-08-200602:25 PM
#3550000019103/08/2006 14:38:31Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
I agree it needs to be toned-down a bit. Going up against a ranged attacker or hacker is extremely difficult as a martial artist, seeing that most of our abilities only work inside Interlock.
With a 4-second timer between chances to initiate Interlock, coupled with the fact that it takes about 4 or 5 tries to break an evade shield, that's 20-25 seconds where you're completely open to ranged attacks. This is especially devastating against Hackers, who can stun, root, debuff, etc.
#3550000019403/08/2006 14:49:17Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
you're using the grab tactic as first contact right? yer green fister will make it easier to pop that bubble
Message Edited by Bethlahem on 03-08-200603:49 PM
#3550000019503/08/2006 14:54:12Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Hmm i'll have to try that out.
Im pretty sure i used it. But like i said, the current Live version of the Evade system was perfectly fine i thought.
#3550000019703/08/2006 14:58:30Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
yeah, i think combat is fine in general the way it is period (ducks the incoming bullets)
but, try this out.
when you choose blue fisty it boosts one of your tactics (check your bonuses page), and the others do the same. the red one boosts power and the green one boosts your interlock chance (i think!)
i didn't realize this either... someone pointed it out to me and i do think they had posted the info in one of the looking glasses or something from the long long ago
#3550000019803/08/2006 17:04:03Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Yeah u are right Beth. Remember too that there are cloths out there that boost Force Combat.
I know of one of the top of my head. It is a collector DT, and they are pants with 50% Force Combat.
#3550000019903/08/2006 18:32:55Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
It is still a bit too strong in my opinion. We shouldn't be having to switch shirts just to interlock anyways.
#3550000020003/09/2006 02:13:14Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
These complaints always come from those that play Martial Arts based characters. There are several factors here that are being ignored outright, and I hear it from MAs that lose to me in duels all the time. Get your facts straight before you cry about it.
1) Both Evade Combat and Force Combat are based on stats now. Focus influences Force Combat, and Perception influences Evade. This means that if you do not have high Focus, or if your opponent has high Perception, it will take longer for you to break their shield.
2) Tactics are the key. Using Grab tactic means the difference between a few tries to take down the shield, and spending all day bouncing off an invisible bubble. If you read the write up for the new Evade system, you would realize that taking multiple tries to bust the bubble is an intended function - even a point of strategy. Because each attempt drains your opponent's IS (which refills very slowly), you can use an inappropriate tactic (i.e. Speed or Power) to repeatedly batter their shield and steal all of their IS.
3) There is more help out there. As mentioned before, there are clothes that give massive bonuses to Force Combat. If you are so annoyed by the bubble, then sacrifice some of your damage resistance to put on some Force Combat pants. You will see the difference immediately. Don't want to do that? Fine, there are ablities that can help you also. I know that on the live game Compel Close Combat is totally worthless, but not in CR 2.0. A single memory slot for a 20% boost in Force Combat is a good deal. I use it with every loadout.
To sum up, the CR 2.0 Martial Artist is more powerful than ever before with the chance to do devastating damage inside interlock, AND the new ability to kick-*CENSORED* from free fire. The new Evade system is a necesary balancing measure to make sure that all the other trees don't get insta-owned by your friendly neighborhood MA gank squad.
P.S. I have max Focus and Perception, so I can bust your bubble in no time, then laugh while you spend a half-hour trying to break mine. Nyah-nyah!
#3550000020103/09/2006 06:33:14Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Thx for the explanation that is interesting, sadly it seems its another element that will benefit the zerg as once people start bouncing off evades any and all elements of surprise will be gone....is there any chance at all we could eradicate the evade bubble altogther? On a non-hostile world if you dont want pvp you dont set the flag, on a hostile world you actually want life to be dangerous I can't honestly see a purpose for the evade bubble?
#3550000020203/09/2006 08:44:11Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
bubbles shouldn't be this hard to break...
Message Edited by sultrybytes on 03-09-200611:44 AM
#3550000020303/09/2006 08:57:46Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Well i traditionally run around as an MA or SMG Specialist (cuz standing still casting spells is no fun) but when i get into a duel with a fellow MA i think its stupid that you spend 3/4s of the time in the duel just trying to pop each others evade bubble.
And considering that MA's are the most interlock dependant of the tree's their force combat stat should be through the roof in my opinion.
Like I said, the original Evade Combat system worked for everyone. As someone else pointed out earlier, if all you do is bounce off of everyone's Evade bubbles its going to make the Mara C zerg rats all that more powerful.
#3550000020403/09/2006 09:00:06Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
I too think it's a bit too hard to break shields.
On avg I think 3 attempts should break a shield, and in the rare occassion that circumstances are right maybe 6 attempts but that should be rare. Currently it's taking 5-8 attempt to break a shield with 15 focus, perception using grab tactics. I do like the IS draining effects and the stronger more strategic use of the shield, but it simply shouldn't be this hard to break.
the IS drain could be bumped up some and the strength of the shield reduced.
-Jilted
#3550000021003/09/2006 15:50:02Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
In hours of PvP and duels on the qa server it takes, ON AVERAGE 6 times to break a bubble, with a high of 8, a median of 7 and a low of 4.
The_Wendigo wrote:
1) Both Evade Combat and Force Combat are based on stats now. Focus influences Force Combat, and Perception influences Evade. This means that if you do not have high Focus, or if your opponent has high Perception, it will take longer for you to break their shield.
I have max focus
2) Tactics are the key. Using Grab tactic means the difference between a few tries to take down the shield, and spending all day bouncing off an invisible bubble. If you read the write up for the new Evade system, you would realize that taking multiple tries to bust the bubble is an intended function - even a point of strategy. Because each attempt drains your opponent's IS (which refills very slowly), you can use an inappropriate tactic (i.e. Speed or Power) to repeatedly batter their shield and steal all of their IS.
I always use grab tactic to break bubbles. The IS drain is an interesting tactic, but the riflemen and smg specialists don't ever need to use special attacks to drain your health rapidly (even with very high resistance and note that adrenaline booster can only be activated once you're in close combat w00t!)
3) There is more help out there. As mentioned before, there are clothes that give massive bonuses to Force Combat. If you are so annoyed by the bubble, then sacrifice some of your damage resistance to put on some Force Combat pants. You will see the difference immediately. Don't want to do that? Fine, there are ablities that can help you also. I know that on the live game Compel Close Combat is totally worthless, but not in CR 2.0. A single memory slot for a 20% boost in Force Combat is a good deal. I use it with every loadout.
I always use Compel Close Combat. I even equipped clothing which adds to force combat thanks to a wonderful thing I like to call macros.
To sum up, the CR 2.0 Martial Artist is more powerful than ever before with the chance to do devastating damage inside interlock, AND the new ability to kick-*CENSORED* from free fire. The new Evade system is a necesary balancing measure to make sure that all the other trees don't get insta-owned by your friendly neighborhood MA gank squad.
I'll tell ya what, you load up ma, and I'll load up rifleman and we'll see who wins.
P.S. I have max Focus and Perception, so I can bust your bubble in no time, then laugh while you spend a half-hour trying to break mine. Nyah-nyah!
#3550000021103/09/2006 19:57:42Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Tytanya_MxO wrote:
Agreed one resist should be the typical result for equal levels before a break. Yesterday in a battle i tried four time unsucessfully to burst and evade bubble, in an intense battle that would again have everything disintegrate into free fire only, which no one really wants I feel.
To be perfectly honest I was really hoping the evade sheild would be dispensed with altogether it looks silly and makes no real sense, simply deal with resist combat and force combat and use the result to determine the initiative of the initial IL....someone with a high reisst combat will effectively get the first hit and score one sided damage etc.
Message Edited by Tytanya_MxO on 03-08-200602:25 PM
I load up gaussian blur with any build - as the increase in evade is hugely important and only takes 5 mem. They need to reduce its effectiveness or MA will lose.
#3550000021203/10/2006 13:06:26Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
guess what? if i'm ma i don't use my evade bubble. i WANT you to interlock me. as for the max focus and perception i'm pretty sure that is what i run too, but i still bounce off of people in duels five or 6 times until i just decide to shoot em. 0o
#3550000021303/10/2006 13:34:47Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
6-8 hits is definitely too high. We'll be looking into this.
#3550000021603/10/2006 14:43:57Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
I've had people take more than that to break mine... lots of IS regen keeps my shield nice and happy.
Being that hacker skills actually stand a chance against MA in IL I think it is more fair now for a weaker evade shield that we have in CR2 right now.
The benefits for a hacker with an evade shield is that using larger skills IE dev field, can be done (Although I have died waiting for the infernal thing to launch, even after I stunned the group)
#3550000021703/10/2006 14:59:46Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Indeed, this evade system.. evades too much..
In an MA fight i won with guns, beacause no one managed to get into Interlock
#3550000021803/10/2006 18:02:12Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Ok sounds a bit crazy but deadly serious now, the more I think about it the more I dont see what the evade shield achieves?
Shouldnt intuition and reflex be the key allowing an IL but triggering a counter-attack? Doesn't people boucing off evade bubbles look more than a little silly? The only situation its useful is against stealth attacks and that has its own detection system and buffs?
#3550000021903/10/2006 18:18:08Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Well I just wanted to say that... uh... I broke the evade shield system
I misunderstood it when I was re-doing the unique items, and made the shields uber-strength. So I just fixed this. I'm not sure if it was fixed in time for the next patch.
T_T
#3550000022103/10/2006 18:34:44Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
HCFrog wrote: Well I just wanted to say that... uh... I broke the evade shield system
I misunderstood it when I was re-doing the unique items, and made the shields uber-strength. So I just fixed this. I'm not sure if it was fixed in time for the next patch.
T_T
/target HCFrog /talkangry
So when's the next patch?
#3550000022303/11/2006 01:07:45Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
HCFrog wrote: Well I just wanted to say that... uh... I broke the evade shield system
I misunderstood it when I was re-doing the unique items, and made the shields uber-strength. So I just fixed this. I'm not sure if it was fixed in time for the next patch.
T_T
Thats good, at least it is a known mistake. Because a sniper shouldn't kill a MA which is constantly trying to break his/her shield. Then when the shield breaks he/she is down to 100pts of health. Thanks for fixing it.
#3550000022703/12/2006 08:36:36Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
Woreku wrote:
It is still a bit too strong in my opinion. We shouldn't be having to switch shirts just to interlock anyways.
Wasnt that one thing we hated doing in our current combat system. Having to wear certain clothes for certain buffs. I still think we should be able to extract the buffs and apply them to any clothes we want.
#3550000022803/12/2006 08:38:13Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
HCFrog wrote: Well I just wanted to say that... uh... I broke the evade shield system
I misunderstood it when I was re-doing the unique items, and made the shields uber-strength. So I just fixed this. I'm not sure if it was fixed in time for the next patch.
T_T
/bow
Thanks for the explanation. Nice to know.
#3550000022903/12/2006 21:12:33Re: Evade Shield too unbreakable?
HCFrog wrote: Well I just wanted to say that... uh... I broke the evade shield system
I misunderstood it when I was re-doing the unique items, and made the shields uber-strength. So I just fixed this. I'm not sure if it was fixed in time for the next patch.
T_T
Thanks for the clarrification! Woot for being able to IL people!
..do i get a dev cookie now or something?! lol XD
Message Edited by Sephiroth+X on 03-12-200609:15 PM
So when's the next patch?
