Org Abilities

38 posts · 2006-05-30 03:20:29 to 2008-04-09 18:08:00

#34700006835 05/30/2006 03:20:29 Org Abilities
I've heard a bit now from ppl talking about organizational abilities, now I can't think of anything for zion or mech but for merv, when i were zion I always fought blood drunks, and they always used blood drink, I think mervs should have the fighting style for them and the moves that come with it or something like that
#34700006837 05/30/2006 03:36:04 Re: Org Abilities
i hope so, and regen health too!
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#34700006838 05/30/2006 03:52:06 Re: Org Abilities
Good idea...here are the problems that are coming to my mind.


1. Everyone would be merovingian...
2. Health regen defeats the purpose of pills/patchers
3. Machines and Zion need somethin.

Here is something to get rid of a few of those things, make the ability available at level 50 only.

It's a good idea, but I think they may have some trouble implementing it.
#34700006840 05/30/2006 04:16:08 Re: Org Abilities
They already have the abilities in mind and I believe are working on them...if you search for posts made by HCFrog on the matter I think you'll be able to find a list of them :smileyhappy:

- Ð
#34700006841 05/30/2006 04:16:24 Re: Org Abilities

The org abilities should be for everyone not just level 50s anyway it might be the rep that determines which org abilities you have not level.


I agree its likely merovingians will have the special moves of the exiles, the machinists could have advanced hyper abilities like the agents and zionists could have moves performed in the movies like Trinity’s overhead kick.

Info Blog
#34700006842 05/30/2006 04:22:53 Re: Org Abilities
They won't be special interlock maneouvres. I remember the top most abilities though.

  • Required usage 127 rep points

  • Merovingians - Spectral Field, a master shadow like state except you can still attack

  • Machines - System Control (Or something like that), an area stun attack that covers a wide area.

  • Zion - Champion of Zion, a wide spread area heal


  • I'll hunt the whole list down later.

    - Ð
    #34700006844 05/30/2006 04:50:55 Re: Org Abilities
    I fav'ed the list. Here it is.

    Zion:

    Zion Interface (small bonus to all accuracies, passive)
    Strength of Will (bonus to all resistances, passive)
    Righteous Shield (burn IS to negate damage taken, activated)
    Generous Spirit (boost IS regen rate, activated)
    Champion of Zion (small % chance, when hit, to fire off an AOE heal/IS restore)
    Machine:

    Machine Interface (small bonus to accuracies, passive)
    System Patch (boosted health regen rate, passive)
    Dynamic Reallocation (boost all DPS, activated)
    Data Conversion (convert damage taken into IS restored - not sure passive or activated)
    System Control (small % chance, when hit, to fire off an AOE stun)
    Merovingian:

    Merovingian Interface (small bonus to accuracies, passive)
    Sophistry (bonus to all defences, passive)
    Extortion (drain IS from enemy in or out of interlock, activated)
    Artifice (launch an IS virus, activated)
    Spectral Field (small % chance, when hit, to go into a mode like Master Shadow for a few seconds, except you can still attack)
    #34700006846 05/30/2006 04:55:24 Re: Org Abilities
    My favorite one is Spectral Field, but overall, I like the Machine abilities better and luckily enough, I'm one. Although It's gonna take sometime to get my rep from 49 to 127.
    #34700006848 05/30/2006 05:01:53 Re: Org Abilities
    Ooh I'm stuck at 123 :smileysad: Shouldn't take you long though kryt, I hear that they're working on a way to make gaining rep slightly easier and better.

    I like spectral field, but I love the machine abilities...and like you I'm one...you and I are similar...except you pwn.

    - Ð
    #34700006849 05/30/2006 05:07:07 Re: Org Abilities


    Dragonram wrote:
    Ooh I'm stuck at 123 :smileysad: Shouldn't take you long though kryt, I hear that they're working on a way to make gaining rep slightly easier and better.

    I like spectral field, but I love the machine abilities...and like you I'm one...you and I are similar...except you pwn.

    - Ð

    We both pwn, but sadly, not as much as CodeWorks. :smileyvery-happy:
    #34700006853 05/30/2006 06:00:36 Re: Org Abilities
    It appears to me here that zion got the short stick. The first ability is obviously equal, but the second seems totally unbalanced.


    A small bonus in either Health Regen or Defense would make a huge difference, but it would take a fairly large amount of resistence to make it worthwhile. Just for example here, i mean as little as 3-5 points defense would be very very helpful. Just a simple 10% health regen, would be a noticeable help. But it would take a good bit of resistence to make a noticeable difference. Now i know the values arent stated here, so maybe it does give out a considerable amount, but i know 20 points of resistence makes practially no difference. I mean woot!! i took ya know 20 less damage on that attack yippee, when my defense could have been higher and i might not have even got hit at all.


    I think the 3rd ability is ok except for one thing. On zion's ability, they actually have to BURN IS. Its the only ability i see that says that. kinda unfair there.


    Fourth abil, looks like everyone will be able to get IS in some way. It is fair to me.


    Fifth abil, those would all be cool, but Merv's seems the coolest. But no complaints here either.


    The main two that i feel are unbalance are the 2nd and 3rd. Resistence just doesnt really do that much to me. I would take defense and health regen all day long over it. But maybe it will be a fairly high number to compensate for the fact that its not as useful. Only complaint with 3rd ability, is that it actually burns IS. Other than those two things, these look like lots and lots of fun. And i hope we are able to get that tool that will tell us what someone is using, so that these wont even come to play in duels. It sure will be nice to know that the person im dueling isnt using these when they say they arent, or that they arent using a TB.


    Ok these are just my observations. Anyone else have a comment on the balance??
    #34700006854 05/30/2006 07:42:51 Re: Org Abilities
    1st ability.
    All good to me


    2nd ability.
    i see where your coming from but it isn't as bad as it seems.

    Health regen out of interlock say is 10
    Health regen in interlock is 2

    a small increase could be 2%, 5%, or 10%.

    2%
    Health regen out of interlock is 10.02
    Health regen in interlock is 2.04

    5%
    Health regen out of interlock is 10.5
    Health regen in interlock is 2.1

    10%
    Health regen out of interlock is 11
    Health regen in interlock is 2.2

    now looking at those numbers....you wouldn't gain that much so in my opinion its all equal as for every 10 seconds in interlock we gain an extra 2health points over you on 10%...

    how is 2extra health points going to make much difference?
    so technically if zion's defense helps save them 1hp every hit (2hits every 10 seconds) zion is getting the better abilities...



    3rd ability.
    a small amount burned of IS on zions again...so 5% 5% of 100 is 5 IS (you can use this 5 times and it be the same as using a normal special (on average)) so again seems fair to me consdering your defending against attacks



    4th ability.
    all good to me.



    5th ability.
    all good to me. i see mero's is coolest, but a few seconds may end up being 4seconds (thats the length of 1round) so they be invulnrable to one round of attacks it seems...but again it seems fair as long as machines AOE stun dont bug like hackers does (i.e inflicked stun but after 0.5 seconds disapear)

    /edit when i wrote interlock i meant "effect of combat actvated" this means you can still be out of interlock and free-firing e.t.c

    Message Edited by shauntaylor88 on 05.30.2006 04:48 PM

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    #34700006856 05/30/2006 07:51:16 Re: Org Abilities
    You can't judge these abilities in a "this ability is better than
    that" basis because it depends more on personal taste and style. Some
    love it, some hate it. To be honest, I am a machine and my favorite one
    is the Merovingian Spectral Field. But this doesn't mean it's superior
    to System Control or Champion of Zion.
    #36300436945 04/04/2008 06:44 Re:Org Abilities
    IF they would test new abils / trees like org abils or the long forgotten Zen Master, I reckon a public test server would be best, not get it live with out a proper testing as it can unbalance the whole game.

    People already started bitching about old abils, cause it means they can't get cq points of defensless dataminers cause they use master shadow or stuff like that...

    If these abils aren't tested and tweaked with a test server like they used before CR 2.0 people will be complaining to much...
    (not that they won't)

    Anyway, these leaked org abils are fun, but no where near ready for use.

    PS. I wouldn't mind a testserver setting where we could test more upcoming game features, cause it can actually make the game more "for the players, from the players" cause I think listening to the players, what they want / need (and I don't mean listening to bitching about abils that suddenly aren't cool anymore) and work on that, people want new content ask the players for suggestions and test it on a test server.

    I love MxO but I hate how it's getting less and less attention... MxO is a great game that could / would have more players if there's put attention to improvements, making everything a pill isn't going to cut it.

    Ok going off topic here, but this is my opinion, what you think about all this isn't up to me...
    Please visit our site ;)


    (take the red pill)
    #36300437133 04/04/2008 11:43 Re:Org Abilities
    ThePigeonKing wrote:
    ReProgrammed wrote:
    They can use this as live testing. So far the problems are; Lack of picture, no tree, reputation requirements don't work, difficult attaching to hotbar....That sounds about it for now. So far they all work great.....Would be perfect if just the reputation requirements worked...
    You can use other organizational abilities that are not your own.

    By the way, there's a reason why these things don't work: They're not intended for release.

    However, we now know how close HCFrog got to finishing these before he got shoved to another project. And from the looks of it, attaching the rep requirement would be the hardest thing to do for them.
    #36300437466 04/05/2008 03:22 Re:Org Abilities
    Rarebit wrote:
    They're old, they haven't been touched, the design and technical issues that make me not want to spend time on them are all still present, and this leak was purely accidental as far as I know, caused by a completely unrelated change to the file they're in.


    Yet again, something we havent seen before gets taken away as quick as we got it. How are they so unbalanced that they cant make it in game? from what ive seen so far, there dont see alot wrong with them apart from the reputation. This is the kind of content most people would love to have, but if it cant be done then ohwell. SMILEY
    #36300437549 04/05/2008 09:20 Re:Org Abilities
    Procurator wrote:
    You can't lose!

      SMILEY
    #36300437706 04/05/2008 16:25:18 Re:Org Abilities

    Pfft just abolish the Cyphs like they should have been in the origional plan, they have no direction anyway.  Get rid of EPN for that matter too, without the Cyphs they will have lost their 'balance' and will seem out of place.
    Its all easily done with some Kill-Codes and an angry Intruder SMILEY

    Would stop sub-org hopping and allow Rarebit to get more indepth with the 3 main orgs story as he wouldn't have to do worry about the EPN and Cyph events ^^

    *isn't serious unless everyone agrees*

    >_>
    <_<
    SMILEY

    Darkhawk's Gallery | Section 9's Past | Metal Gear?! It's already active?!
    There can only be room for one Snake, and one Big Boss!
    #36300437714 04/05/2008 16:44:09 Re:Org Abilities
    I'd say make these abilities prone to live testing. I know it's cutting to the bone but I don't want to write too much about this but.. simply what players have been looking for, diversity in orgs and their different strengths. Tapping into the Matrix and running them without a tree, now that's new and fresh thinking! Keep, please! Live testing. Live testing. Live.. oh, I said I didn't want to write too much about this SMILEY
    #36300437715 04/05/2008 16:48:51 Re:Org Abilities
    SolidRevolver wrote:

    Pfft just abolish the Cyphs like they should have been in the origional plan, they have no direction anyway.  Get rid of EPN for that matter too, without the Cyphs they will have lost their 'balance' and will seem out of place.
    Its all easily done with some Kill-Codes and an angry Intruder SMILEY

    Would stop sub-org hopping and allow Rarebit to get more indepth with the 3 main orgs story as he wouldn't have to do worry about the EPN and Cyph events ^^

    Woo, that'd create some serious instability in the Machine org. SMILEY Especially on Syntax: the ex-Cypherites would never get invited to events by the liaisons. Eventually, though, I guess it might go back to the way things were, with some factions (I'm thinking Masked Agenda here, if memory serves) openly declaring themselves Cypherites and avoiding the official Machinist stuff.

    And, of course, most Cypherites now like to declare that they don't work for anyone, have no leaders. And yet they follow Veil, Cryptos and the liaisons into whatever they plan. SMILEY
    #36300437724 04/05/2008 17:11:29 Re:Org Abilities
    Procurator wrote:
    Woo, that'd create some serious instability in the Machine org. SMILEY

    Actually, a lot of Cyphs have said they'd go Merv if there was no Cyph option.

    But I stray from the point, Org Abilities are full of win and it would be a huge mistake to just leave them to rot away with Zen Master and such SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

    EDIT: I say 'a lot of Cyphs' but only one I recall has said it, but when you look, a lot of Mervs have gone Cyph on Syntax at least.

    Darkhawk's Gallery | Section 9's Past | Metal Gear?! It's already active?!
    There can only be room for one Snake, and one Big Boss!
    #36300437747 04/05/2008 17:55:44 Re:Org Abilities
    Procurator wrote:
    SolidRevolver wrote:

    Woo, that'd create some serious instability in the Machine org. SMILEY Especially on Syntax: the ex-Cypherites would never get invited to events by the liaisons.

    You mean the Syntax Mech liaisons would only invite the top of the social hierarchy to events / their secret forum where players could bash the factions who didn't have access? I was under the impression that was already going on. Heck, some 3 year machinists-to-the-core may have gone CYPH solely because of what this essentially amounted to: a blacklist that could only be gotten around if you "knew somebody," essentially sending the message: "These are the machinists the liaisons care about, the rest be damned."

    Anyway back on topic, I think as it stands the Merv abilities are way better than the other orgs abilities. Although, in terms of notification if someone had these active, if somehow they were ever implemented.. there is still that ol' Loadout Scanner lying around, if that could be gotten to work :0
    #36300437757 04/05/2008 18:28:47 Re:Org Abilities
    Completely and utterly untrue. The syntax machine liasons make themselves available to all machinists. 
    Starschwar
    #36300437758 04/05/2008 18:29:35 Re:Org Abilities
    SolidRevolver wrote:
    Procurator wrote:
    Woo, that'd create some serious instability in the Machine org. SMILEY

    Actually, a lot of Cyphs have said they'd go Merv if there was no Cyph option.

    But I stray from the point, Org Abilities are full of win and it would be a huge mistake to just leave them to rot away with Zen Master and such SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />

    EDIT: I say 'a lot of Cyphs' but only one I recall has said it, but when you look, a lot of Mervs have gone Cyph on Syntax at least.

    I would of stayed Merv if there wasnt Cyphs SMILEY
    #36300437768 04/05/2008 19:06:52 Re:Org Abilities
    kou_urake wrote:
    Completely and utterly untrue. The syntax machine liasons make themselves available to all machinists. 
    nah
    #36300437801 04/05/2008 21:37:12 Re:Org Abilities
    FrayJack wrote:
    kou_urake wrote:
    Completely and utterly untrue. The syntax machine liasons make themselves available to all machinists. 
    nah
    Seconded.
    #36300437815 04/05/2008 22:44:39 Re:Org Abilities
    Obviously nobody's going to say they don't want them. Here's more power for free! Who would say no to that? As far as PvE game balance goes, though, they can't be allowed to exist at their current levels. Our poor NPCs already have a hard enough time as it is in CR2.0.

    Aside from the PvE and PVP balance issues, and the significant technical issues that would have to be worked out for an org ability system to function within the established parameters of the game, "org abilities" are based around two fundamental design concepts that I don't think are right for the game.

    1) Your organization determines your fighting capability.

    Organization in MXO is supposed to be an ideological choice. Offering different abilities to different organizations would make it a combat choice, because no matter what you do, different abilities will work better with different loadouts. So you'd have a situation where, for instance, someone dedicated to Zion might feel they have to switch from their favorite loadout because it's no longer optimal for PVP, or someone who only wanted to play a gunman would feel like they'd have to switch orgs, because the abilities of the org they were in weren't as favorable to their fighting style. I don't want that to happen.

    2) Your fighting capability is crippled by changing organizations.

    Except for EPN<>Zion and Cyph<>Machine, if you switch orgs, you have to re-grind reputation. Currently this restricts your access to the latest critical missions, and to using the org area key, but it doesn't inhibit your fighting prowess. Some people posting here have implied that switching orgs is something we should be trying very hard to prevent, but I don't agree with that. The rep-loss mechanism has already solved the old problem we had with people jumping orgs willy-nilly to get through org barriers and crash events. But there are perfectly valid role-play reasons for wanting to switch organizations long-term that I don't believe should be discouraged. With org abilities tied to high reputation, changing organization would make you stink at PVP, at least until you did a ton of mission grinding.


    It seems to me that the long-term effects of the two items above would be to discourage rather than encourage ability loadout and organization choice. I'm not at all interested in doing that. The game's original lead designers did not tie reputation to fighting ability in any way, and I think they had very valid reasons for keeping the two separate.

    #36300437817 04/05/2008 22:55:08 Re:Org Abilities
    Gonna have to agree to disagree with you Rare. I believe it adds some much needed diversity to the orgs. They should be slightly different from a combat perspective honestly. It adds flavor to the game.

    Do they need balanced? Yes. But removing all together is like taking 10 steps backwards at this point, even though the step forward was unwanted.
    #36300437820 04/05/2008 23:06:30 Re:Org Abilities
    Oh, I expect most people posting here will disagree with me.

    #36300437829 04/05/2008 23:40:33 Re:Org Abilities
    The only reason I would want these in games is because they would really, really benefit me.

    But they'd unbalance PVP and they cause all sorts of problems/are very broken, and have no memory cost. Introducing any new abilities in PVP would greatly upset it's delicate ecosystem of ganking.

    Have to go with Rarebit and that one guy who said he didn't want them on this, just too problematic.
    #36300437831 04/05/2008 23:46:14 Re:Org Abilities
    TBH I don't think the abils are linked THAT much to your PvP loadout, I think the abils excel more depending on the PvP situation. The mechs can convert damage to IS, get a trauma surgeon to load that and spam heals, the ability is great if you are getting zerged and shot to crap (Yes, you can start the "lol zerg" jokes if you like). The Zion one just adds a huge bonus to IS regen, get a howitzer to load that and go off with their attacks, it's far more reliable cause you don't have to get shot to get IS back, and works better in 1 on 1 situations. On the flipside a Zionist can buff the damage of all his teammates for a short time (Works good in groups) where a mech can only buff himself (And again needs to be shot for it to work) so with good coordination a Zionist team can basically always have their damage buffed.

    Of course if the abils were to be implemented I think icons should be added to the character if they are using them (Like HT suggested), mainly for the sake of duels and tournaments where, yes, your org could make a difference enough to matter to the overall outcome, but in regular PvP I think there won't be THAT much issue with them.

    Also, you need to change the % bonuses on the temp activated abils to actual bonuses cause it would be too easy to stack some of them. But yes, I think with work the org abils can be implemented.
    If you are reading this my sig didn't work T_T
    #36300437905 04/06/2008 04:01:22 Re:Org Abilities
    Bayamos wrote:
    You mean the Syntax Mech liaisons would only invite the top of the social hierarchy to events / their secret forum where players could bash the factions who didn't have access? I was under the impression that was already going on. Heck, some 3 year machinists-to-the-core may have gone CYPH solely because of what this essentially amounted to: a blacklist that could only be gotten around if you "knew somebody," essentially sending the message: "These are the machinists the liaisons care about, the rest be damned."
    Here, listen you. That's not what I meant, as you *CENSORED* well know. The Syntax Machinist liaisons don't like Cypherites - simple as that. So if the Cypherite org meshed into the Machine one, there'd initially be a conflict there. But it would never be allowed to last, if you'd employ some common sense. Either the Mech liaisons would change their tune, or the Cyph liaisons would join the liaison team or... whatever.

    But don't you dare cry favouritism. We've had to put up with that overused and baseless accusation before and it's very, very tiresome. SMILEY
    #36300438777 04/07/2008 15:36 Re:Org Abilities
    exsuscito wrote:


    Organization diversity should not, and will not come in the form of more avenues, through which to buff.


    It's okay, we can all just be ZiMechOvingians till the game gets shut down. There's no problem with that, no, none at all.


    /sigh. You people have become too submissive. There's no pressure at all on the devs to release anything outside of crits and a sentinel at this point. Whatever.
    #36300438792 04/07/2008 15:57 Re:Org Abilities
    Vinia wrote:
    Rogue wrote:
    /sigh. You people have become too submissive. There's no pressure at all on the devs to release anything outside of crits and a sentinel at this point. Whatever.
    ... and new constructs, change in the E-mail, daily events, continuing story all the stuff that Rarebit says he wants to do for update 60... nah, no pressure at all. Just because you can't see what they're doing doesn't mean that they're doing sod all...
    New construct (note the lack of a plural) that took 3 years to release. Adding the ability to get more emails (oh no. If only that wasn't MxO just playing catch up with the game industry), daily events (Rare logs in, we kill some spawns, rare talks, logs out), and continuing story (nothing to refute here).

    And the stuff in update 60? Sorry rare, I know you're running a 1 man show, but Vinia, I'd hardly call much of that new. Changing DPS and adding in pills and weapons that should have been in the initial release of the game is not new and exciting, it's playing catch up.

    I better watch out though, I might get NightTrace'd if I say too much.
    #36300438903 04/07/2008 19:30 Re:Org Abilities
    Procurator wrote:
    Vinia wrote:
    Do you really think he and the other Dev's aren't under pressure?
    That's not actually what he meant, at least not the way I saw it. Rogue meant that there's no pressure from the player base for the Devs to do specific things. There's pressure on them to not work on other things: pressure from live events, crits, constructs etc. means they can't work on org abilities for example.

    But there's little pressure from us for them to do things...
    Thank you, that's exactly what I meant.

    There is almost no pressure at all from the player base for any changes at all. Everyone's too happy to just sit back and agree the second a developer lays down their position on any issue.
    #36300439969 04/09/2008 18:08 Re:Org Abilities
    Vinia wrote:
    There could be some innate flaw in the coding of the abilities or the game itself which would prevent the abilities working properly, we've already seen that based on rep doesn't work with them, for the moment and that you could load up another Orgs abs. This could mean a complete rewriting of the abs code or alteration of the games code would be needed. Now we know the game code is quite hard to sort out and it could take ages for the dev's to rewrite out the code for abs in order for them to work. This may be the reason why they're not looking into it, because it'd take too much time away from what they should be doing. I know I'd prefer lots of new small additions than waiting 5-6 months for a single large one.

    (Note: this post was based on my very little knowledge of code writing)

    Or, Rare could release the code to us and ask us to take a look at it. Now, I don't directly recall what his original job was on this game, but if I do remember correctly, it wasn't programmer. There are some of us in the community who do have a decent knowledge of programming that would write the code to implement these in a heart beat... for FREE.

    You don't have to give us the source, but some snippets that show the problem areas with implementation might be able to be sorted out by some of us who know code structures and the languages.