Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

#34700005113 04/20/2006 10:56:52 Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Out of designing the Org Abilities, we've decided to make some sort of
diagnostic tool for y'all, for the purposes of duels, tournaments, etc.
You could use this tool on another player to find out some info about
what they're running.

Now up front, the first thing is: this tool would give you NO INFO
about their loadout, except for whether or not they had any Org
abilities running. I know people have their personal loadouts they've
developed through a lot of trial and error, they don't necessarily want
to share this with other people, and by no means am I suggesting that
you could see any of that info.

Here are the things I figure it might report on:

Org Abilities (just whether you had any loaded, not which ones)

Tactics Boosters

Are there any other things you'd want to know - health boosters?

Would it be okay for someone to have one of these tools, usable at any
time including during PvP, so they could tell if you had TBs or Org abs
going? It could use a confirmation dialog, but that opens up a whole
area for griefing (people spamming the confirmation at you during PvP
or something) that I'd greatly prefer to avoid. So the ideal situation
is that it reports information that can be public at any time.

My assumption is that TBs would be okay to report since they have a
visible activation FX already, and other players can see you start
doing them... but I could be wrong SMILEY

#34700005114 04/20/2006 11:01:56 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

would you need an ability to be loaded to use these tools?

#34700005115 04/20/2006 11:03:28 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I believe it should report any positive and negative buffs on a non-hostile player. This means items like TBs, Antibiotics, Health Inhalers, and Health Boosters, as well as any upgrades provided by Upgrade Masters and the like. It should also report any downgrades on the player, such as Death Effect and things like Despoiler, etc.

For hostile players, it should only report upgrades granted by items, and all downgrades. Put it on a timer, too, to prevent players from just running around reporting everyone's upgrades and downgrades.

And yes, a confirmation dialog would be a great addition as well.

Message Edited by Symmetric on 04-20-2006 03:08 PM

#34700005116 04/20/2006 11:04:40 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:

My assumption is that TBs would be okay to report since they have a
visible activation FX already, and other players can see you start
doing them... but I could be wrong

That one PB coat gives the same animation.

#34700005117 04/20/2006 11:06:13 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I like it. It'd be really nice to be able to check for TBs and Org Abilities so you can organize a nice fair duel or tournament. The only other issue I could think of would be any upgrades from like Upgrade Masters or Force Multipliers so we can account for those. But that's a pretty minor point IMO.

And it should be available to use on both hostile and nonhostile targets - otherwise what use will it be on Vector? Checking if the level 15 has a tac booster on?

In terms of questions, would there be a reuse timer? A usage timer (like lockpicking or whatever)? An ability required to use it?

All I can think of right now.

#34700005118 04/20/2006 11:07:18 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

How about something along the lines of a Gieger Counter?

It basically just reports the number of upgrades a person has (either from abilities, applied buffs, or clothing).

Make it so the only way you can use the counter is in Block... and if you use it on a flagged player, you flag.

#34700005119 04/20/2006 11:08:04 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Perhaps a display to see if they're using more than one type of tree (i.e - Operative and Hacker) maybe?

#34700005120 04/20/2006 11:11:03 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

There would not be an ability required to use it, anyone could use it. (unless you want a new fight referee tree SMILEY

)

Probably no usage timer.

I think it definitely should show hostile info, as that's the only way
you could have an impartial ref or second opinions from opposing orgs
on Vector.

There would definitely be a re-use timer, maybe along the lines of 5
seconds or so, to avoid lagging up the game with a bunch of diagnostic
spam.

#34700005121 04/20/2006 11:23:54 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:
There would not be an ability required to use it, anyone could use it. (unless you want a new fight referee tree )

Probably no usage timer.

I think it definitely should show hostile info, as that's the only way
you could have an impartial ref or second opinions from opposing orgs
on Vector.

There would definitely be a re-use timer, maybe along the lines of 5
seconds or so, to avoid lagging up the game with a bunch of diagnostic
spam.

Will it have a animation so everyone knows your scanning someone?

Also here are the things i think should be added into the scanner

1) Org Skills
2) Buffs
3) Tatic Boosters
4) Event Items in use (Neo's Insight, Zion hardware blah, Glimps of the source, etc)
5) Memory in use
6) Clothing Buffs

How about make the animation like a code bomb effect? The tool acts like the code anazlyer and when you use it, green code moves from you on the ground and red code comes into you from the air?

The reason to make it act like the code anazlyer so it has drop down menus and stuff.

Like
Player - Name1
              Name2
              Name3
              Name4
etc then

NameX - Scan for Org Skills
               Scan for Buffs
               Scan for Tatic boosters
               Scan for Event Items
               Scan for memory useage
               Scan Current Clothing

then it gives you feedback over in the area of the code anazlyer were it normally tells you the things used to make the item. Etc.

But you can scan everyone within 50meters at the sametime.

Message Edited by Warboy090 on 04-20-2006 03:27 PM

#34700005122 04/20/2006 11:25:38 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Warboy090 wrote:

Glimps of the source

when I read that I thought it said "Gimps of the source"... :smileysurprised:

#34700005123 04/20/2006 11:26:37 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:

Warboy090 wrote:

Glimps of the source

when I read that I thought it said "Gimps of the source"... :smileysurprised:

lawl.

You're right about the whole Vector thing...can't place too many restrictions on the tool, or else it wouldn't be fair to the Vector crowd.

#34700005124 04/20/2006 11:28:16 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I dont tend to duel much myself but this will be a godsend to those that do SMILEY

The interest is generally in those buffs that could be given by external influences and parties, so yes TB's or health boosters but also things such as combat enhancement 1.0, health regen boost etc from the patcher tree. A scan before a duel could generate a simple report along the lines;

scanning.....

Booster present: present/none

Org ability: present/none

Clothing buff : present/none

Additional buff: present/none

if the scan involved a timer 5 - 10 seconds that was interruptable and also was unusable in stealth the actual ability it's use in general pvp would be minimal - the only time I can imagine it being relevent would be where someone has 'Delete Upgrade' loaded (they'd be able to use their skill that bit more efficiently than at present) - if it could be made mutually exclusive to that tree all negatives are really covered but even if not its not the end of the world.

Overall would be an excellent tool for player events!

#34700005125 04/20/2006 11:28:25 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:

Warboy090 wrote:

Glimps of the source

when I read that I thought it said "Gimps of the source"... :smileysurprised:

:smileyindifferent:
Too much coffee for Frog today?

Also, i edited that post with some more info

Message Edited by Warboy090 on 04-20-2006 03:29 PM

#34700005126 04/20/2006 11:28:48 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

There will be some sort of animation.

Actually now that I think of it, yes there will definitely be a usage
timer on it, just like other abilities. Maybe even a fairly long usage
timer; that way the person has to stand still for a while to use it,
making it a lot harder to use in a hostile situation. It could even
possibly disable a bunch of your own abilities and remove all your
buffs or something like that... hmmm

[ heh tytanya and I had the same idea at the same time it looks like SMILEY

]

Message Edited by HCFrog on 04-20-2006 12:30 PM

#34700005127 04/20/2006 11:29:27 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

How about it also tells you if Hyper Dodge, Block, Sense, or Deflect is running in the buffer?

Maybe attribute number information?

PS: Everytime I look at your sig HCF I'm reminded of George Costanza and the Frogger episode. lol

So do you look like George?

Message Edited by ByteCrawler on 04-20-2006 03:31 PM

#34700005128 04/20/2006 11:30:00 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Read my past post...

/russdance....

#34700005129 04/20/2006 11:32:24 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Warboy090 wrote:
Read my past post...

/russdance....

/neo

Whoa!

/endneo

Very cool idea but definitely not within the scope of what I'm planning
to do SMILEY

This is going to be target someone, click the button, get some
spam in your system window SMILEY

#34700005130 04/20/2006 11:34:43 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

ByteCrawler wrote:

PS: Everytime I look at your sig HCF I'm reminded of George Costanza and the Frogger episode. lol

So do you look like George?

Not yet, but give it time and who knows SMILEY

I don't think I saw that episode though

#34700005131 04/20/2006 11:44:19 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Is it possible to let the tool show up in the hands while using it?
So many emotes or abilities with tools have to do with an item but there is none. /drinkbottle for example.

Nothing important, i know.

dave

Message Edited by davemusic on 04-20-2006 09:44 PM

#34700005132 04/20/2006 11:50:23 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Tytanya_MxO wrote:

I dont tend to duel much myself but this will be a godsend to those that do

The interest is generally in those buffs that could be given by external influences and parties, so yes TB's or health boosters but also things such as combat enhancement 1.0, health regen boost etc from the patcher tree. A scan before a duel could generate a simple report along the lines;

scanning.....

Booster present: present/none

Org ability: present/none

Clothing buff : present/none

Additional buff: present/none

if the scan involved a timer 5 - 10 seconds that was interruptable and also was unusable in stealth the actual ability it's use in general pvp would be minimal - the only time I can imagine it being relevent would be where someone has 'Delete Upgrade' loaded (they'd be able to use their skill that bit more efficiently than at present) - if it could be made mutually exclusive to that tree all negatives are really covered but even if not its not the end of the world.

Overall would be an excellent tool for player events!

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "Clothing Buffs." Do you mean if
the person is wearing buffed clothing, or stuff like the Toughness from
the PB2 items? Because the whole "buffed clothing" thing is kinda a
"duh" moment. I mean, of course they're going to have buffed clothing. I suppose it might be good for a duel in unbuffed clothing, though.

#34700005134 04/20/2006 11:51:07 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I imagine that the "Tapping Data Node" animation will be reused for this one.

#34700005136 04/20/2006 12:01:31 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

DragnMastyr wrote:

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "Clothing Buffs." Do you mean if the person is wearing buffed clothing, or stuff like the Toughness from the PB2 items? Because the whole "buffed clothing" thing is kinda a "duh" moment. I mean, of course they're going to have buffed clothing. I suppose it might be good for a duel in unbuffed clothing, though.

Its possibly a pre-cr2 thing but in the tourneys I attended they were generally naked to make it as pure a test of player ability/lo rather than the latest gear etc....either that or everyone was a pervert :smileysurprised: In any event if the info is there it can be noted, the rules of the duel will determine whether it is permissable or not so I see only advantage in its inclusion.

#34700005137 04/20/2006 12:04:15 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:

ByteCrawler wrote:

PS: Everytime I look at your sig HCF I'm reminded of George Costanza and the Frogger episode. lol

So do you look like George?
Not yet, but give it time and who knows I don't think I saw that episode though

Spoilers since its at the end of the episode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-nasnFB-tQ&search=Seinfeld%20Frogger

Ok back to work. :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Aquilae on 04-20-2006 04:05 PM

#34700005138 04/20/2006 12:09:20 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Aquilae wrote:

HCFrog wrote:

ByteCrawler wrote:

PS: Everytime I look at your sig HCF I'm reminded of George Costanza and the Frogger episode. lol

So do you look like George?

Not yet, but give it time and who knows I don't think I saw that episode though

Spoilers since its at the end of the episode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-nasnFB-tQ&search=Seinfeld%20Frogger

Ok back to work. :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Aquilae on 04-20-2006 04:05 PM

Ahhh, thank you Aquilae, I was just about to go nuts finding that for him. I can't believe he never saw that episode! Very dissapointed in you Frog. SMILEY

Anyways, I know its cool for this to be an Awakened tool, how about putting this down the Data Miner tree? Another great reason to be a Data Miner? SMILEY

Archived image unavailable: bytesigs.html

#34700005139 04/20/2006 12:10:25 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Maybe for animation, it would look like a combination of scanning animation from the data mine tree with a different style effect and/or a hacker doing the hand animation (hacking viruses).

#34700005140 04/20/2006 12:28:18 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:

ByteCrawler wrote:

PS: Everytime I look at your sig HCF I'm reminded of George Costanza and the Frogger episode. lol
So do you look like George?
Not yet, but give it time and who knows I don't think I saw that episode though

Oh, that was a funny episode SMILEY

------------------

Well, I believe the diagnostic tool would be interesting... I think that if it's going to list details of what an opponent is boosted with, maybe it could be given a bit of a Matrix Element to it. The system chat it could be said by your operator, and it would only be read out on your screen. Because no matter what, you'll always have that group of players that will time their Diagnostic Tool in proper sequence to spam Mara C for ten minutes...

Operator: HCFrog is now equiped with:
Tactic Booster 4.0
Health Boost 5.0
Dev Shield Evade 1000

Just something along those lines, because I really think MxO could use a bit more of a matrix feel to it still...

#34700005141 04/20/2006 12:31:28 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

What's an Org Skill now?

Actually could someone explain the whole purpose of this thread? I'm utterly confused!

Message Edited by Roukan on 04-20-2006 01:32 PM

#34700005142 04/20/2006 12:47:39 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Hehehe, gotta love George.

So anyways, I would love if this tool kicks out a pretty verbose response in the System text. I figure the more info it provides the better (IMO).

Archived image unavailable: bytesigs.html

#34700005143 04/20/2006 12:47:43 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

How about for information revealed just have the name and then the type of buffs active. example:

HC Frog is recieving enhancements from items (clothing or tactic boosters)
HC Frog has 3 operative buffs active
HC Frog has 2 awakened buffs active
HC Frog has 2 org abilities active

Message Edited by Advisary on 04-20-2006 01:51 PM

#34700005144 04/20/2006 12:58:32 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

HCFrog wrote:

Warboy090 wrote:
Read my past post...

/russdance....

/neo

Whoa!

/endneo

Very cool idea but definitely not within the scope of what I'm planning
to do This is going to be target someone, click the button, get some
spam in your system window

Well, I think you guys should make it clean like appear in a small window or something, Its pointless if its in system chat because it will be gone in like 5 secs.

#34700005146 04/20/2006 13:39:34 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I think the format should be like this.

Scanning Zane... Scan Completed on Zane
Zane has
3 Organizational abilities activated
2 Tree "Upgrades" activated
3 "Upgrades" from other abilities (this would be for all those buffs from force enhancer or upgrade master)
Tactic Booster is active

#34700005148 04/20/2006 13:47:29 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Code Scanner (min. level required = 1)
Scans one individual and brings up the RSI Analysis window (apply previous ideas here).
Has a success rate, mind you.

Code Router (min. level required = 15)
Scans all RSI's in the surrounding (21 m) area and opens the RSI Analysis window (apply previous ideas here) The RSI Analysis window will include tabs with each player's name as the title of a new tab.

Adv. Code Scanner (min. level required = 30)
Adv. success rate, bla bla bla

Adv. Code Router (min. level required = 45)
blah blah blah

Data Miner increases the effieciency of all Code Scanners and Routers by 100%. SMILEY

#34700005149 04/20/2006 14:06:29 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

If you did run along the idea of having a confirmation box, I guess it would only be fair to have a new /autoignore scan command or something. Otherwise you could imagine what would happen not only in PvP but also to LE characters.

But then if you had an /autoignore command for it, it would wind up pretty useless right? So the only real thing to do would be to have no confirmation box and limit the information given.

I suppose you could go for two versions of the device to run it, a simple one that just returns a yes/no type answer as to what the player has running, and an advanced one that gives more detailed information - but at a severe cost, such as draining all IS, removing your evade shield, flagging you for PvP or something else that would deter over use of it...

#34700005150 04/20/2006 14:22:16 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

ZippydaSquirl wrote:
Code Scanner (min. level required = 1)
Scans one individual and brings up the RSI Analysis window (apply previous ideas here).
Has a success rate, mind you.

Code Router (min. level required = 15)
Scans all RSI's in the surrounding (21 m) area and opens the RSI Analysis window (apply previous ideas here) The RSI Analysis window will include tabs with each player's name as the title of a new tab.

Adv. Code Scanner (min. level required = 30)
Adv. success rate, bla bla bla

Adv. Code Router (min. level required = 45)
blah blah blah

Data Miner increases the effieciency of all Code Scanners and Routers by 100%.

Not for nothing, I love the idea. Kind of defeats the purpose of a tool available to everyone, but why not make a useless tree useful and add another branch?

Archived image unavailable: bytesigs.html

#34700005152 04/20/2006 14:42:57 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

if buffs are dected there should be an animation pulling a red card out of your pocket and showing it to the target.

#34700005155 04/20/2006 15:08:48 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

yea HC this is a great idea! SMILEY On a side note make the org ability buffs to have a nice visual fx so we can see if they are activated in a duel, like the mobius code or a tb.

Here is what the sweeper should look for

TB-obviosuly

Health booster- this is considered cheating too

Health Enhailer- ""

RESPOND TO THIS ONE DOWN BELOW SO I KNOW YOU READ IT! MOST IMPORTANT!!!!!!

ALL of the upgrade buffs from the all the trees from the upgrade artist so that means but not excluded too all the buffs in upgrade master, force enhancer, and doctor

I say it should check for those too because in tournaments those are illegal too. And by checking for those it doesnt mean it gives away any of their secret combinations of abilities they loaded or anything. But it would be a shame if someone could load up on an upgrade master then fight and it never be detected.

P.S. this item should be full working and full detecting for every level and all orgs right from the get go, because its not fair and goes against it's design to maybe check all the buffs. that would just be a cheaters way of going about it. hoping it doesnt catch them.

Message Edited by Mercio on 04-20-2006 04:11 PM

#34700005158 04/20/2006 16:51:50 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I think it will only see use in duels, in PvP it tends to be too frantic...

Are you intending it to be used IN INTERLOCK??

That would be interesting if I were losing I might be able to determine why.

Along with TB and Health boosts. Org abilities. How about the exact amount of buffer used!

That would not give away a players buffs, but would strongly Suggest if they were buffed or not....

Whaddya think?

#34700005178 04/21/2006 03:42:56 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

i think the only buffs that should be shown are off tree buffs

#34700005192 04/21/2006 09:29:08 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Is there a way that you could make it show if they had any buffs from other players on them...like Fast Healing 2.0, Upgrade Master, etc?

That would be useful...maybe you wouldnt need to know exactly what they had loaded but it could just say "Yes" or "No" to a line that says "External Player Buffs" or something along those lines.

#34700005195 04/21/2006 10:18:39 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

For blue characters it would be extremely helpful to know what upgrades they have running and their current buffer. This would be very helpful for upgrade artists who don't want to give pople dupliate upgrades. The reuse timer for friendlies should be short.

For reds it could just tell what upgrades they are running, just to give you an idea if you should fight directly with them or be more strategic with them. The reuse timer on a red should be a bit longer.

#34700005210 04/21/2006 17:26:15 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I would suggest a slight IS cost. Would be annoying to lose IS for using it, but might serve as a helpful deterrent from area spamming it.

'MIGHT'

But then again maybe not, people are stupid.

#34700005212 04/21/2006 18:17:16 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Very cool idea, here's my 47 cents:

It should be in the awakened tree and require either an awakened patch or subroutine to craft since these frags are now useless (other than burning for a crafting buff). It could also have a high memory usage like 50 (or more) to prevent it from being used with combat loads since this should be for tournament management and not general PvP use.

Not sure why you'd want to use it in PvP which is free for all no rules ganking zerg death gauntlet stuff anyway. (Unless you just can't work it out for Vector.) If you want to know if peeps are using TB in PvP, they are. This would mainly suit those who like to find the weak members of the flock, then flag up and gank them. While peeps are welcome to PvP with any tactics they like, I don't think a tool should be made that encourages n00b tactics like this.

It could be restricted to use only on players who are IN a duel. This would work on all servers and exclude use in PvP. Then at tournaments, each org would be free to have an observer who can examine the contestants in a duel to maintain the integrity of the tournament.

You might also consider having it display the info for all to see or having some sort of effect show when a violation is detected. Would be cool if it were a tournament management tool that could be tuned for the specific rules of the tournament.

This would allow you to err on the side of more generous information since it couldn't be used in combat, but only as an observer of duels.

Look forward to seeing what comes of this. Amazing stuff comes outta that little Froggy mind. Keep it up!

Message Edited by r3spon5e on 04-21-2006 07:18 PM

I edit everything

Message Edited by r3spon5e on 04-21-2006 07:21 PM

#34700005331 04/24/2006 23:44:07 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Love the idea, please implement it.

But oh great another tool to take up the lack of inventory space us level 50's have.

#34700005505 04/28/2006 09:43:54 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I'm of the "keep it simple" mindset. Just add the info to the player Details window. This seems like it would be easier for the devs than creating an ability/tool and would take up no space. Options could be added to the user settings so the player can determine if (and perhaps what) information is to be shared. No share, no compete. My 2 cents.

#34700005529 04/28/2006 15:47:27 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Very cool, although I hate System spam. There's enough of it as it is.

Would it be possible to show the results of the scan behind the compass like so?

#34700005538 04/29/2006 01:45:38 MXO - Diagnostic Tool

MXO - Diagnostic Tool

I find the idea good to implement it as an ability or an item which can be loaded. From the MATRIX view is it more interessting to bring it to this simulation as a useful item than to integrate it directly to the 'User Interface'. I find, it is a better feeling for a user to load it and use it as a scanner (in the story) than to know there is a button somewhere in the UI, which I can click, and I know everything about an enemy (or friend?). SMILEY

Thanks

Miss Arzu Bazman
[msbazman] // «CONSTANCIA» // <RAF>

-
-

#34700005542 04/29/2006 05:08:16 Re: MXO - Diagnostic Tool

If this is going to be done, it has to be done so that Upgrade Master
and FE buffs show up too. Those are where themainproblem lies.

#34700005543 04/29/2006 06:07:14 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

Froggy I have an idea, instead of the system chat spam and difficult to read, why not a tell from system (like we get when we lose a sim)?

So if someone wants to analyze the data he collected, he can just go to crew chat.

#34700005553 04/29/2006 10:32:50 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

I think this tool sounds amazing. It should so any upgrades from the patcher tree, any items that boost, (not clothes).

Last night I came back from being 3/4 health down and i got him down to mabye 500hp or less left. (just a tiny tiny bit on the bar) and he accused of TB4.0. Im 98% positive he was jking. As I'm against that thing unless specified before hand.

It would be nice to see that though. Thx frog!!

#34700005565 04/30/2006 00:40:17 Re: Feedback Request: Diagnostic Tool

gothique wrote:
Froggy I have an idea, instead of the system chat spam and difficult to read, why not a tell from system (like we get when we lose a sim)?

Best post from goth ever.