This thread is for discussion of The Other Side of the Looking Glass posted on Friday, December 9, 2005.
Message Edited by Walrus on 12-09-2005 05:47 PM
The Other Side of the Looking Glass - December 9, 2005
71 posts · 2005-12-09 17:43:09 to 2005-12-16 19:47:23
Wow...
I think even I'M getting that itchy feeling between my shoulderblades, after that one...
I can't wait to test some of this stuff out. It sounds absolutely amazing.
Welcome, Oar (good name for an engineer
), and many thanks to he and Archon for their answers and insights regarding Combat 2.0. To say that I'm excited about it would be an understatement.
... And Walrus - thanks for including that blurb about the LESIG. Nice to know my paranoia was for nothing.
... At least, this time.
- Void
I think even I'M getting that itchy feeling between my shoulderblades, after that one...
I can't wait to test some of this stuff out. It sounds absolutely amazing.
Welcome, Oar (good name for an engineer
), and many thanks to he and Archon for their answers and insights regarding Combat 2.0. To say that I'm excited about it would be an understatement.... And Walrus - thanks for including that blurb about the LESIG. Nice to know my paranoia was for nothing.
... At least, this time.
- Void
Message Edited by EndlessVoid on 12-09-2005 06:04 PM
That is a very good OSOTLG... very nice
dave
dave
Interesting.
The combat revisions sounds better and better the more I read about it, however one major concern which I read in this artical is this:
Increasing Stats
The only way to increase Stats (Focus, Perception, etc.) is by spending points on them when you gain levels. Abilities, items, buffs, etc. do not affect Stat scores.
So does that mean all items which currently increase perception/focus/belief/reason/vitality will now be null and void (reading that I take that as yes) in which case what is going to happen to all the items which were reissued in the reflow and the items from the archives which many people can't get into now. Example: Ashencourte Shades providing +12 perception.
Everything else looks ok, although that issue if it is how I think it is, will probably cause a pretty large uproar.
Jeffers
The combat revisions sounds better and better the more I read about it, however one major concern which I read in this artical is this:
Increasing Stats
The only way to increase Stats (Focus, Perception, etc.) is by spending points on them when you gain levels. Abilities, items, buffs, etc. do not affect Stat scores.
So does that mean all items which currently increase perception/focus/belief/reason/vitality will now be null and void (reading that I take that as yes) in which case what is going to happen to all the items which were reissued in the reflow and the items from the archives which many people can't get into now. Example: Ashencourte Shades providing +12 perception.
Everything else looks ok, although that issue if it is how I think it is, will probably cause a pretty large uproar.
Jeffers
Message Edited by jeffers on 12-10-2005 02:04 AM
Awesome stuff Walrus. Looking forward to that CU now more than ever. Hopefully the kinks are worked out soon.
Tank : 'kay..so what do you need..?...Besides a miracle..
Neo : Cowbell ... lots of cowbell.
Sorry, couldn't help it.
OK, seriously, I will mourn the end of zero-sum, because frankly when I'm fighting in the dojo or ring the result of an exchange of blows is almost never 'we hit each other' but either 'I hit him' or 'he hit me.' However, as a game mechanic particularly for a multiplayer game it's had some real trouble here, so I'll drink a bit of sake' in remembrance and be glad for what's coming.
Frankly I'm more excited about this revision than I've ever been about the original combat system. Hard to say more until we get our paws on it...
At the risk of vaguely bringing up a tabletop gaming system in this venue... Having a bonus to one's perception stat might be impossible under the new system, but that does not mean we won't possibly see upgrades to the bonuses conferred by that stat. For example, an item that gives 12 points of perception now might simply give a +1 or +2 to all abilities affected by perception. We'll have to see how the points and bonuses break down.
- Void
- Void
Oh I am loving how this new combat system sounds! We can kill each other at the same time now haha! =D
Does this mean that each attribute point will have a greater effect on their certain aspects?
Every time I hear more about the Combat Upgrade, I realize just how much work is going into it, and learn of new and changed aspects of combat in the game that I didn't even know of.
I really look forward to getting my grubby little cave-monkey hands on it.
I really look forward to getting my grubby little cave-monkey hands on it.
Excellent "Looking Glass", Walrus. As always, thank you for your hard work.
Remember folks, if it goes right the first time, then something went wrong. Do not hesitate to send bug reports once QA opens.
Remember folks, if it goes right the first time, then something went wrong. Do not hesitate to send bug reports once QA opens.
All I care about is the info on LESIG....im getting an itch over it 
Walrus wrote:I think you made many people happy with this line! I'll be ready!
I have to set up the first task and will
then let all previous applicants I can find into the special forums.
The article was good, but it could've used more cowbell!
Best OSofLG I've read in a long time. Thanks Walrus. I can finally sleep easy now. :smileyhappy:
jeffers wrote:
Interesting.
The combat revisions sounds better and better the more I read about it, however one major concern which I read in this artical is this:
Increasing Stats
The only way to increase Stats (Focus, Perception, etc.) is by spending points on them when you gain levels. Abilities, items, buffs, etc. do not affect Stat scores.
So does that mean all items which currently increase perception/focus/belief/reason/vitality will now be null and void (reading that I take that as yes) in which case what is going to happen to all the items which were reissued in the reflow and the items from the archives which many people can't get into now. Example: Ashencourte Shades providing +12 perception.
Everything else looks ok, although that issue if it is how I think it is, will probably cause a pretty large uproar.
Jeffers
Message Edited by jeffers on 12-10-2005 02:04 AM
Oh crud. I forgot to add this bit because it was in a second email.
Stat Bonuses
Currently* each Stat point above 5 adds 2% to all affected Attributes, up to 50% at a stat score of 30. Players that choose to cap one stat sacrifice some versatility for what they gain--it is far better to mix them.
*Bonuses, along with most other things, are subject to change based on analysis, testing, and designer whim.
lol walrus, just a LITTLE detail that you forgot there! 
I like how this new system sounds, can't wait to know more. Of course it will cause uproar. They are playing a very dangerous game. Change always is.
I like how this new system sounds, can't wait to know more. Of course it will cause uproar. They are playing a very dangerous game. Change always is.Oi ! I've got a fever, and the only cure is more cowbell
lol, anyway... um what?
http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/38.html
ROFLMAO!
"Experience the room!"
"I gotta have more cowbell!"
>revolt_
ROFLMAO!
"Experience the room!"
"I gotta have more cowbell!"
>revolt_
Great job walrus (and Oar) I love what you guys are doing, but can we get some info on if people who have been asking to be in the LESIG latley? I mean, for those people that didn't sign up before... like... I don't know... ME!:mantongue:
This is too awesome for the likes of a tired me after a hard day's work. Maybe my mind will work tomorrow... But...
Pistoleer; Lmao. I just had to laugh at that little 'misnaming' of our much 'cooler-than-SWG's-Pistoleer' Duelist.
Pistoleer; Lmao. I just had to laugh at that little 'misnaming' of our much 'cooler-than-SWG's-Pistoleer' Duelist.
Don't want to duplicate the whole post I made earlier, but after reading the Other Side of the Looking Glass I have two things to say:
1. Don't Fear the Reaper is one of my most favourite songs. I loved the bit about the cowbell Thank you, Oar! Don't let them work you hard, work smart!
2. http://mxoboards.station.sony.com/matrix/board/message?board.id=broadcastdepth&message.id=1676#M1676
I don't think I'm too off-course with that ^^^^^^
So... Master Shadow Upgrade Master it is? (Or was it Doctor?)
Stay Frosty Guys!
Thanks for the little nibbles of LESIG. Really looking forward to the implementation. NO MORE NIBBLES, we want the meal!!! lol
And Mr. Oar.... Mr. "Oar" Whitfield... like the Whitfield Code Launcher? Hmmm... so that's where yall got the name from. =D
Message Edited by Cognoscente on 12-10-2005 01:20 AM
I love the last few updates we've had about LESIG, CR2.0, everything.
Hearing that interlock is going to be much more fluid and fast paced...makes me cry inside. And they are happy tears
I love it...simply love it. The only thing I don't like about all this is I'm too impatient and want it now!
Hearing that interlock is going to be much more fluid and fast paced...makes me cry inside. And they are happy tears
I love it...simply love it. The only thing I don't like about all this is I'm too impatient and want it now!
I love the ideas but the attribute change is still scaring me some. I chose my entire archetype for the current system, I'll have 5 belief and 11 vitality on reset, I just hope it doesn't hurt me. I do think it will be very good thou.
thanks for the update on the CR 2.0 and LESIG, walrus.
the new animations are getting me excited, test server test server! lol
the new animations are getting me excited, test server test server! lol
Thanks for this update, Walrus. I must say, you and the rest of the Devs have the most humor in any game I have played yet. The cowbell link was hilarious. :smileyvery-happy:
I have one concern though:
Increasing Stats
Many high level items like the Sakura, Widow's Lenses, etc. have buffs to increase Stats, I wonder what the new buffs will be, and I really hope they don't change current stats and let the old items "grandfather"!
I have one concern though:
Increasing Stats
The only way to increase Stats (Focus, Perception, etc.) is by spending points on them when you gain levels. Abilities, items, buffs, etc. do not affect Stat scores.
Many high level items like the Sakura, Widow's Lenses, etc. have buffs to increase Stats, I wonder what the new buffs will be, and I really hope they don't change current stats and let the old items "grandfather"!
well. nice edition again. congrats to all who is working on this.
it would seem we are going to be playing a new game in a few weeks time.
all the old books, websites, and infomation will no- longer be correct ( there goes my matrix online guide book )
) now we have a new game. as such. many many changes on the way. im looking forward to becoming a noob again in this game. sounds fun
Hey will our stat points be reset to 0 so we may take advantage of the new changes?
and also, will the evergreenskin and all the other cool equipment be made useless?
I like the idea of fluid gameplay, to make the fights more film like... but just one thing... never replace the awesome combat music x]
anyway i like all this, S'goood
Best.Looking glass. Ever
Nah, seriously, its articles like this that really make me appreciate the time and effort you guys put into this game. Oh and the personal touches in these articles is a definate good thing, keep it up! it just makes everything seem so much...closer.
Seriously looking forward to the QA server, I NEED IT NOW!!!
Yes, as this will effect alot. It seems appropriate to allow for alterations to our character's fundamental base stats; ie: new age hippy, etc.
Can this alteration be provided?
this stats not being afected by items is starting to worry me now. so basicly all the hard work to get items from the constructs that inculde such items are now worth **bleep** all. if you guys introduce new items to replace them you sure as hell better convert the old ones over or theres gonna be a **bleep**ing riot on your hands.
I just would like to say you all are doing a great job on the new revisions, sounds like a lot of work. everything sounds good now so far. thanks for keeping us informed Walrus (passes walrus a bucket of fishees,):smileyvery-happy: I always thought that communication is the most important thing when it comes designs and work and give you all 5 stars for the great work over there.
thanks again
FINALTOM
p.s. we need alot more cowbells lol
Tseng. wrote:
...so basicly all the hard work to get items...
Stop it stop it stop it!!!!! It's a game! You had fun! You will have more fun getting the new phat lewt!
grats to the mxo team, theres seems to be a lot of careful thought gone into this and a lot more planning than im sure a lot of us were aware of , im sure the efforts being made will ensure we are getting a great update, and its great to hear from other team members giving us updates to thnaks
EndlessVoid wrote:
At the risk of vaguely bringing up a tabletop gaming system in this venue... Having a bonus to one's perception stat might be impossible under the new system, but that does not mean we won't possibly see upgrades to the bonuses conferred by that stat. For example, an item that gives 12 points of perception now might simply give a +1 or +2 to all abilities affected by perception. We'll have to see how the points and bonuses break down.
- Void
If thats the case then that is fine.
The only thing I am worried about overly is the fact that when ever any item has been replaced in the past, the previous item goes into rapid decay.
That was the concern I was raising, especially for the archive drops. If no one else is bothered then just ignore me. :p
Jeffers
:smileyvery-happy:
Walrus wrote:
Any producer that has hair that isn’t grey
uses dye. (Assuming s/he still has hair.)
Alot of good info! Just one thing that's been bugging me - since interlock will be so much faster, how will Bullet Time work?
Good info overall, and I'm liking the sound of the "new" interlock more than I have in the past.
I do think we should be given some sort of response on what will happen with the current enhanced items though... my preference would be to have our "old" items just be replaced with the new versions of the same thing but if grandfathering is going to be forced again (say it ain't so, please?) they might as well tell us now instead of dropping it on us later.
I sincerly hope that I don't get forgotten for LESIG. Other then that, great update and that cowbell link was hilarious!
The combat upgrade sounds interesting.
I really don't see the point of making null and void all items that increase stats. I mean, why? They don't unbalance the game. i can think of many, many other things to take the nerf bat to besides Watcher's Shades and things like that. Besides, we already had the decay bomb dropped on us a couple of weeks ago after the reflow....so I went and took the time to get me some new gear. Did I do all of this in vain?
Quote of the week - "The executive washroom does have Perrier in the toilets!"
Also, yes, that cowbell link WAS hilarious Good OSotLG
will we have more fun getting the new 'phat lewt', as you so egariously
put it, considering it's all locked away in nice, inaccessible
archives? Hmm?
Also, yes, that cowbell link WAS hilarious
Good OSotLGHow
Moondog548 wrote:
Tseng. wrote:
...so basicly all the hard work to get items...
Stop it stop it stop it!!!!! It's a game! You had fun! You will have more fun getting the new phat lewt!
will we have more fun getting the new 'phat lewt', as you so egariously
put it, considering it's all locked away in nice, inaccessible
archives? Hmm?
RockyB wrote:
How will we have more fun getting the new 'phat lewt', as you so egariously put it, considering it's all locked away in nice, inaccessible archives? Hmm?
Oh you mean THAAAAT lewt. Hmmm... I dunno.
Personally I don't give a crap about items and get miffed when I can't successfully PvE in a game without having obtained the so-called "phat lewt". See cuz I hatehatehatehatehatehate farming and really don't enjoy min-maxing at all. But hey, that's just me. I respect and understand that other folks DO enjoy that and so no reason why they shouldn't have the chance. I just get irritated as hell at people who think they've somehow been working by playing this game and have therefore earned something besides playing this game.
Granted that having the game you like turned into a game you don't like is no fun, but I can't see changes to some item stats being anywhere in that ballpark.
If it's the lewt you want and the game won't let you get it yourself you can always get someone else to get it for you. If it's the hunt for lewt that you want then I'm sure there will be plenty of lewt your level to hunt for.
I really hope i can be part of the LESIG. Been here since launch and would love to do it :smileyhappy: . Overall i say that was a great OSOFLG :smileyhappy:
Thanks very much for the great insights. I so regret that I didn't sign
up for LESIG back in the days... And after all: LESIG probably means
LEs.
I read, Interlock would become "more smooth". I know what is meant, but
I'm thinking of the actual animations. I got used to them, but when I
first started playing the game, they really felt everything but smooth.
There seem to be too few frames or something, just choppy...
Btw, how much space on my HDD will the second installation of MxO need (more or less than 6 GB)?
up for LESIG back in the days... And after all: LESIG probably means
LEs.
I read, Interlock would become "more smooth". I know what is meant, but
I'm thinking of the actual animations. I got used to them, but when I
first started playing the game, they really felt everything but smooth.
There seem to be too few frames or something, just choppy...
Btw, how much space on my HDD will the second installation of MxO need (more or less than 6 GB)?
Moondog548 wrote:
RockyB wrote:
How will we have more fun getting the new 'phat lewt', as you so egariously put it, considering it's all locked away in nice, inaccessible archives? Hmm?
Oh you mean THAAAAT lewt. Hmmm... I dunno.
Personally I don't give a crap about items and get miffed when I can't successfully PvE in a game without having obtained the so-called "phat lewt". See cuz I hatehatehatehatehatehate farming and really don't enjoy min-maxing at all. But hey, that's just me. I respect and understand that other folks DO enjoy that and so no reason why they shouldn't have the chance. I just get irritated as hell at people who think they've somehow been working by playing this game and have therefore earned something besides playing this game.
Granted that having the game you like turned into a game you don't like is no fun, but I can't see changes to some item stats being anywhere in that ballpark.
If it's the lewt you want and the game won't let you get it yourself you can always get someone else to get it for you. If it's the hunt for lewt that you want then I'm sure there will be plenty of lewt your level to hunt for.
you cant just "get someone else to get it for you" when your talking about the main construct drops. sakura bandanna widows moor lenses ect ect. due to the 0.5% drop rate on the rare ocassion (more so now with the vd increase) do drop the person who got um will be in no hurry to part with them. and when they do they command a high price. so anyone who has farmed hard for um will be punished, any one whos bought some will be punished. the point most people will feal is if they change the stats part to another buff much like how they handled the removal of ct buffs from clothing would be fine. but in the event of them being grandfathered ala speed gi's and the more recent reflow your basicly spitting in the face of every lvl 50 in the game.
I appreciated the link to the napster of porn the most. Huh, what cowbell?
Message Edited by RainKingX on 12-11-2005 05:49 AM
RainKingX wrote:
I appreciated the link to the napster of porn the most. Huh, what cowbell?
Message Edited by RainKingX on 12-11-2005 05:49 AM
LMAO, I was wondering if anyone would comment on that. :smileyvery-happy:
Great article, btw.. you've whet my appetite even more... bring on the cowbell!
Tseng. wrote:
you cant just "get someone else to get it for you" when your talking about the main construct drops. sakura bandanna widows moor lenses ect ect. due to the 0.5% drop rate on the rare ocassion (more so now with the vd increase) do drop the person who got um will be in no hurry to part with them. and when they do they command a high price. so anyone who has farmed hard for um will be punished, any one whos bought some will be punished. the point most people will feal is if they change the stats part to another buff much like how they handled the removal of ct buffs from clothing would be fine. but in the event of them being grandfathered ala speed gi's and the more recent reflow your basicly spitting in the face of every lvl 50 in the game.
I don't see what the point is in removing attribute buff items is in the first place. It's seems like a colossal waste of time. Let me give you some specific examples of how I'm evidently "unbalancing the game" by listing my two highest clothing buffed stats and what that means for all practical purposes.
#1) Perception:
I have a clothing buff of +17 (from Detection Shades, Corrupt Hands and Evergreenskin). Let's see where this puts me.
Ability Increase Per Point Spent
Analyze Weakness 0.4 x 17 = 6.8
Detect
Tseng. wrote:
you cant just "get someone else to get it for you" when your talking about the main construct drops. sakura bandanna widows moor lenses ect ect. due to the 0.5% drop rate on the rare ocassion (more so now with the vd increase) do drop the person who got um will be in no hurry to part with them. and when they do they command a high price. so anyone who has farmed hard for um will be punished, any one whos bought some will be punished. the point most people will feal is if they change the stats part to another buff much like how they handled the removal of ct buffs from clothing would be fine. but in the event of them being grandfathered ala speed gi's and the more recent reflow your basicly spitting in the face of every lvl 50 in the game.
I don't see what the point is in removing attribute buff items is in the first place. It's seems like a colossal waste of time. Let me give you some specific examples of how I'm evidently "unbalancing the game" by listing my highest clothing buffed stats and what that means for all practical purposes.
#1) Perception:
I have a clothing buff of +17 (from Detection Shades, Corrupt Hands and Evergreenskin). Let's see where this puts me.
Ability Increase Per Point Spent
Analyze Weakness 0.4 x 17 = 6.8
Detect 0.5 x 17 = 8.5
Lock Picking 0.4 x 17 = 6.8
MCT 0.1 x 17 = 1.7 (Hoo boy!)
Melee Physical Dmg 0.2 x 17 = 3.4
Ranged Physical Dmg 0.2 x 17 = 3.4
Sneak Attack Detection: 0.4 x 17 = 6.8
Stealth Damage 0.2 x 17 =3.4
Stalth Detection 0.5 x 17 = 8.5
I mean, nerfing the majority of clothing to stop people from getting 1-2 extra MCT points (for example) is unbalancing the game? It seems really petty to me.
Message Edited by Villemar on 12-10-2005 05:02 PM
I'm with y'all that construct bosses' levels and drop rates are silly. But there you go again with players being "punished" or getting "spit in their face". Can't you all see you're crazy? ;-} Yeah that part of the game's not right but fercrissake don't take it personally!
I never ever ever ever understood either why the game is set up so that the items that the high level players want can't be obtained by them. The fact that the item only drops for someone too low to use it and too low to kill the boss that drops it is mind boggling for me. So I feel your pain on that front. But that's badwrong game design regardless of wether you get to keep the item you masocisticly got that way.
If someone says they'll give you a sucker if you slam your head in a car-door for 8 hours straight, and you do it, and then they take the sucker back after only a couple licks... well c'mon don't complain about the sucker! You're the one who slammed your head in a car-door!
And to Villemar... you missed the part where all the stats you just typed up have nothing to do with what's being discussed. The attribute buffs are coming off the clothes because the attributes are going to work much much differently. Walrus clairified further up the thread.
Heh... guess I'm snarky today. Oh well. I love y'all, I just need to vent.
I love y'all, I just need to vent.