Discussion Thread: Dev Journal 01 - August 24, 2005

Finally.... I lost all the interest playing the same things over and over.. I think il be back when the next update comes out.

I have to say it all looks pretty good.  I cant wait for pandora's box.  I also want to check out the new combat system.  One thing I'd like is a new chat system...or at least something to be able to communicate with the djs.

Ok, for the most part I think all the info here is great.  My only concern is the free-fire melee, I'm a duelist and we were told that the reason MA do more damage then us was because they had to be in interlock to do any damage at all.  Well, that will not be the case anymore, so can us gun-fu users expect to get a bump up to our damage, equal to that of MA (makes since to me, guns do more damage in real life as well) or be left in the dust?

guns do more damage if ur hit...............

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SpikeDX wrote:
guns do more damage if ur hit...............

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Really?  I used to be a karate MA then went guns and I did a lot more dmg as a MA, even after I reset my RSI for focus.

Message Edited by SpikeDX on 08-25-2005 07:23 PM

Looking forward to the changes

The movies were about Martial Arts and Guns.....get rid of Hacker all together. I hate the way it works, looks, everything about it..just ruins the game. Beta was so fun because for awhile everyone was MA or Guns and it was amazingly fun.....now its turned into a bunch of Wizards....

Totally agree, Hacker is pointless in the Matrix, what they should do first is get rid of the Blood Nolbes you fight as bosses when u are Level 50 i am not playing this game to be a Vampire Skayer.

Bad move my friend resetting to Focus if you wanted to do more damage as a gunman, for some stupid reason ranged damage uses the perception attribute.

I think that the reason they aren't just shortening the stun timers is so that you can still use it in PvE, I don't think the NPC's are complaining about being stunned and I don't want to see that aspect of it go away.

Lost a very long post due to user error so here's the very short version, long rewrite to follow.

I approve of the tenor of these changes wholeheartedly.  However, be very wary of trying to layer a cookie-cutter role structure onto MxO that works wonderfully in a fantasy setting.

Despite what the odd MxO manual says, a martial artist in the Matrix is not a 'tank.'  It took one (1) bullet to kill Trinity; the one that hit.  A gunman is not a ranger, a spy is not a rogue (and especially not a 'rouge'!), coders are not EQ Magicians, and hackers are not wizards and clerics.

Consider strongly how your knowledge of game systems can be used to fit the Matrix mythos, not how the Matrix mythos might be bent to fit the mold of existing MMOGs.  Only then will you realize the truth; players come to a name-branded game to experience the nature of the movie world, not to play just-another-MMOG with a green tint. (/spoon)

Half of this is what malform and I ranted about for days on end about 3 weeks after the game was released.




I'm glad to hear these changes are finally going to be made, I look forward to them.




But honestly this is why a lot of people are no longer playing.









And seriously I don't care how bad interlock is or any of that, I came for the story.




The games been so bugged and had so many issues that the story is all but forgotten.




The server merge blew away what little story we had worked up.









It's good they're fixing these balance issues and that's a good
direction but personally I believe that's the kind of thing that should
have been fixed in beta. If they had spent that time fixing that in
beta and we were all still engrossed in the story like we were in the
first 3 weeks of play I know tons of people that would still be
playing.









Oh and I had to rant on this too (which I can't really do here) If you
do want to see more of what I had to say about this check it out my
post in whine here:




[warning: is not for the faint of heart. or those that can't view the english language in it's entirety]



Whine Here

Archived image unavailable: cowboysig.html

Guardians of Unreality

Message Edited by prole on 08-26-2005 12:16 PM

I have an idea about the speed at which interlock moves.

And on another note multilock could have worked if it had been set up differently.


I don't care how many people I'm locked with, I can be locked with 20
of them if I'm given a list of whom I'm interlocked with in consecutive
order. If I could then set my rolls up how I wanted to ahead of time by
simply hiting one ability or type of attack and then hitting another
and have it go down the ist consecutively and being able to do more
then block to those interlocked with me. That would be the matrix style
fight to me. I don't recall neo just blocking when being attacked by
more then one agent.





Also if interlock would build upon itself in stages due to level then it would also feel a lot more natural to me.


As interlock stands it's slow and clunky. There's a ton of time wasted
doing nothing but waiting for the roll to take place. A lot of this
isn't even animation time as they aren't even that fluid.


Now say if interlock was between level 1 and 15 as it is now, slower,
giving the player more time to choose the ability they want to use and
think what to do next then they would be able to master interlock.





But us 50s that have played more then just the hacker tree (or never played an offensive hacker tree in our life)


have already mastered interlock. We sit there waiting for the roll to
go through so we can make the next one while we probably already have
the next 3-4 planned out too. But then say if it's pvp by the time
we've got 2 rolls off we've already been hacked, stunned, and code
shocked by 3-5 hackers. Not that I'm whining it's their right it's part
of the game. But as I see it interlock is the vast majority of the time
suicide within the pvp realm. Too slow, too little damage, too much can
happen to you from the outside.





This would be why I enjoy duels so much more. Your skill against the
skill of one other player. I'd rather see a team duel in the mean time
then fixed and balanced trees. At least in a team duel I could mass
duel against another team from the same org as me or even a mixed org
team. No one could whine that they were ganked by 12 different hackers.
There's only 12 people total and I'm sure if you want to play without
hackers, or hackers only that would be easy to work out between the
dueling teams.





Back to my original point tho, interlock should build. It should become
faster and more rewarding at higher levels. Speed it up, reduce the
pause, even perhaps double time it or tripple time it for 50s or at
least allow the option to do so in pvp. Give us a few more trees even
if they are unbalanced give us them for a week and ask for our feedback
on it. Give the 50s that are bored something to do and allow them to
help you build a better game through analysis and feedback.

Message Edited by prole on 08-26-2005 01:57 PM

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Traxada wrote:
Very impressive Archon, glad to see such detailed communication with the player base once again. All the new projects for expansion sound great. Keep up the good work.

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Ditto!!!  Very good news all around.  Thanks Archon!

I agree, we need to bring this game back to its roots, the movie itself, there should be your best ideas for new material.

all sounds good, will they deliver in time though. Like when we heard of pandoras box at first it was a long time ago. If this happens with all this other content i think its all goin to be too late for me. if pandoras box and a few things come early spt i think it will make the game more enjoyable, question is though how long before it gets back to what it is like now? I always hope he is gona fix lag lol

I like almost everything I heard about the new interlock changes..the only thing tat bothers me is that they will be removing multi person fighting...Even though hard I find it exhilerating to jump in the middle of 5 yellows and get them all into interlock...moving from one to the other smoothely...I think they should keep this if not improve on it Gives a good MAtrix feel, as for everything else I cant wait!!

Did I misunderstand the article or did it say that multi
person interlock was going to be no more?  I hope not, I liked
being able to take on three people at once in interlock, when it
actually happened that is.  If anything I'd like to see you be
able to attack all three opponents in interlock instead of finish off
one, move on to the next style play.





I really hope when you interlock someone it does not prevent you or your opponent from being
interlocked by other outside opponents.

Message Edited by Gwion on 08-27-2005 04:04 PM

Repost:



I'm surprised they even put it in...actually, not that surprised
really. Leave it to those in charge to find a way to mess us things
further. Those combat changes sound pretty good don't they? Anti-Stun
pills for a while, MAs become stronger, get ranged melee attacks..





Except it completely destroys and semblance of balance we have. It's
likely we're much closer to balance now than after the upcoming combat
"balancing".





First off, even though they're temporary, the Anti-Stun Pill completely
throws off and destroys balance. Sure, it might sound like a good
thing, but in reality it completely and utterly changes things for all
classes. With one item Karate has become the weakest MA.





Second, IL changes will further grant more power and give more advantage to those with greater numbers.





Third, instead of fixing the problems with IL such as rolling out while
Enraged, Confused, Stunned, Rooted, they're giving MAs Free-Fire
attacks/abilities, and weaking some ranged combat
attacks/abilities/classes, though to what extent is currently unknown.





Also, they'll be balancing DPS. Sounds like a good idea right? Wrong.
I'm expecting that Hacker, MKT, and possibly even ER could take a hit
from DPS reductions. Sure, a Hacker needs to be weakened a bit, but
only focusing on offensive capabilities and not weaknesses is not
creating balance. For example, MKT can deal a lot of DMG. However, they
spend most if not all IS to kill their target, and have no resistances
aside from Stealth Resistance.





Fourth, the Anti-Stun Pill further increases Operative reliance on
consumables to be effective. An Operative needs CT Boosters to be
effective. Much of the time they need Antibiotics to be effective. Now,
they'll need Anti-Stun Pills. That means more farming, more coding,
more time doing something boring to participate in something that's be
made worse with this "balancing".





Now, as to other changes upcoming.




The first part involves timed interaction with game/mission objects
such as doors and computers. This is a prelude to adding a consistent
set of rules under which Invisibility works. These changes are proper
solutions for the temporary measures put in place a little while ago.



Sounds like a good thing right? Possible un-nerf
of Spy, right? Well, that's all good but Spy is pretty much useless in
missions due to mission timers.



As to Pandora's Box, it sounds like something that combines collectors with missions and construct bosses. Now all the boring stuff is in one place!





True, not really on topic, but meh.

I would like to see changes done to make the data miner tree worth
having, and i would like to see increased range for the sniper tree,
these are a request from the general public. thank you.

everythings koo wit me with what dey said all i want top noe is the exact dates for everything pandoras bow will coming out in like mid sept combat prob october or early november others will be implamented earlier like the pill isnt really that bi to take that long so thats prbo in early sept the spy thing will be later since their reamking everything new moves and what not so that maybe november im think or december i just qwant an approximate time line of when theyll be ready.

or if theyll open the q&a for testing

Message Edited by SpikeDX on 08-28-2005 05:14 PM

Long comments I:Interlock

The producer comments imply that we may be seeing an end to Interlock in favor of 'free-fire' attacking on timers, which is how every other MMOG works.I’m inclined to panic but instead decided to write this, heh.

What does Interlock do for us?

1. It allows synchronization of attacker and defender animations, so that MxO fighting looks like two people punching, kicking, and blocking against each other, and not two dissociated figures punching air or flinching at blows that appear to land feet away.


2. It provides a mechanism where the hand-to-hand fighter’s proximity to his target is reflected; the other guy can’t simply walk away with impunity.

However the system is broken in these ways:

1. As noted by the producer comments ‘zero-sum’ combat and PvP are a mismatch.If A has just a very few levels above B he will nearly always beat B; if A is significantly higher he will invariably beat not only B, but B and 50 friends of the same level of B.


2. The interlock timing is out of sync with that of free-fire attacks, lending unbalanced power to the free-fire attacks as compared to the interlock combat.This is not only broken in its own right but makes balancing the different ability trees against each other nearly impossible.


3. At a (small) number of interlocked opponents against one target, the system breaks down entirely and ‘thrashes’ making sure each participant has a turn to execute their roll and attacker/defender animation.This further slows down the fighting cycle.It could be said that the best way to keep someone alive in Interlock is to have five or six extra people Interlock him.


4. Numerous issues and game balance problems exist with the transition in and out of Interlock; when may a MA interlock a Hacker, when may Spies successfully attack and roll out, and so forth.

OK, so it’s broken.How do we get rid of the bad without also losing the good?

Simply removing Interlock, putting the MA attacks on free-fire timers solves problems #2 and #3.

Adding a sort of avoidance/mitigation system common to other MMOGs solves #1; now we can have full hits, partial hits, misses, and more; I’d even argue that the block action ought to provide a better chance of creating states (off-balance, etc) against opponents than the three attack options.

But that still leaves #4, and we need to keep the benefits of the Interlock system.

The only way I can see the benefit of the animation system is to keep it.Even if A and B are out of Interlock, if A executes Guard Breaker either the successful or unsuccessful animation plays for both of them.

But what if, while that’s happening, C comes along and executes another attack on B?This is the real trick.If C’s attack happens without interrupting the existing animation, it looks like C’s punching air; we’ve lost the immersion.If the animation between A and B is interrupted in mid-flow, we can also lose the immersion.

I don’t think we can expect that 100% of cases will work out.However, here’s a proposed rule of thumb:the most-successful (damaging) attack’s animation takes precedence.So, say A attacks B, and hits.The hit animation plays.Then C executes an attack, but it misses.It’s then OK for C’s animation to hit air, because it’s not doing damage.However if C clobbers B, then the animation going on between A and B stops, and the one between C and B begins.

Now we’re left with one big issue; how to keep the ‘lock’ part of Interlock?

This may be very familiar to old wargamers, but I’d argue for a Zone of Control (ZOC) system.Simply put, if A enters a certain radius from B, and they are considered Hostile to each other, he is then in B’s Zone of Control.A is at risk of being clobbered by B.

When in another player’s Zone of Control, the following ought to happen:

-Base movement rate should be dramatically decreased to walk speed; you can’t run by someone trying to hit you without being completely vulnerable.

-Any attempt (whether by movement, hyperjump, or escape ability) to leave the ZOC triggers a free, immediate attack of opportunity against the person escaping.This opportunity can be denoted by flashing icon.There ought to exist some attacks which have special effects if used against a person leaving ZOC, and some which might only be used in this circumstance (e.g., it should be very dangerous to turn your back on an Assassin).

-Some or all of these attacks, if successful, inhibit the escaping player from leaving ZOC (think short-term root).If A tries to run by B, who Grabs him and throws him to the ground, A did not succeed in getting away from B.

-The method of escape (regular movement, HJ, escape ability) serves as a modifier on the attack.Someone doing a fancy escape roll is harder to hit than someone running by.

-The server may need to check both parties for movement; if A and B both run by each other they should either both have an opportunity to strike or neither have an opportunity to strike

-If a player is already engaged by combat (involved in a fighting animation) the ZOC they exert diminishes or is eliminated.If A is blocking like crazy against B’s triple kick, A is in no position to reach out and clobber C who is running for the door.

-Some other abilities executed outside of ZOC may reduce or eliminate the target’s ability to exert ZOC.Being ‘rooted’ makes it hard to stop someone running by you…

-Movement as a result of fighting animation does not trigger a ZOC opportunity (it’d be a huge bug to have someone moving on the attack animation only to provoke many ZOC opportunities by doing so).ZOC is re-evaluated at the end of the animation (if you’re kicked many feet away from someone, when you get up you might then have the chance to run)

If you like a tactical game parallel, look at NWN’s ‘attacks of opportunity.’There leaving a ZOC provokes a free attack, but the Tumble ability allows characters the chance to avoid taking the attack.

In the movies, look at the Trinity fight at the end of M:Reloaded.She obviously would like to escape the Agent, but cannot; wherever she turns she’s forced to keep fighting.Eventually she’s booted through a door, and only then has an opportunity to try her escape through the window. (Not that it worked out very well for her, but it’s the only example I could think of where a martial-arts fight happens and the fight transitions back outside of hand-to-hand range).

If this, or something like it, is put in place then there’s still a reason for Hackers not to stand on top of Martial Artists and for Spies to be able to get in and out of fighting range quickly.It presents a lot of tactical complexity to the MxO fighting system, particularly in PvP situations.

Mightily Said Prisoner,

I haven't played MXO in like 2 months so I'm looking forward to this! I wonder can they make swords ingame?:smileyhappy:

     Well, we can all be "optimistic" can't we. Interlock shorter? What they are saying is, "Well, we know Hackers are uber, and you have no real defense unless you sacrifice all the time you spent to level to Grand Master Martial Artist, and only load yourself to Master level, and load all your hacker defense, only so you can hang around long enough to bounce off enough attacks to Hyperjump away, because your playing the Matrix, where in all the films the focus was Martial Arts, and Gunplay skills, but we feel the need to have UBER Wizzards because "EVERY OTHER MMO HAS WIZZARD SPELL CASTERS".

     What this means is that with free Melee combat, and both fighters hiting simutaniously, your gonna have short fights with two people wacking one another at the same time like robots, ala Galaxies, and WoW, and every other MMO till someone falls down. Eventually, interlock is going to be vamped out, and it's going to be Star Wars Galaxies. Forget Interlock, let's call it "Rock'em Sock'em robots, because this is the direction combat is headed.

     Interlock shorter? Interlock is the only thing that personally still reminds me I am in the "MATRIX" Interlock Shorter? I guess we can totally forget "Bullet Time" Cut scenes, considering you have to have a long fight to even see one, so you can go, "Look, it is the Matrix, there's bullet time!"

     I have been playing this game since early in Beta. I was the first level 50 on Linenoise. I've stuck it out because I feel a sense of attachment to this game. The problem with the matrix is the lack of focus, and outside interference. There is always someone who thinks it should be "more" like the other MMO's in play style.

     When was the Matrix at it's best? The first Three Months of release, When you would actually recieve a message from Niobe asking to personally meet with you and your crew, and she gave you orders to spy on a certain other faction and gather intel to report to her. That was the Heart of the Matrix MMO. That it was "MORE" than just a game, but you were actually doing something.

     With this new purchase, and design shift, I'm afraid we are going to have another MMO just like all the others. Another month, and I will have been a part of this community for over a year. That's a long time of dedication. What went wrong for Matrix? Trying to include every level 2-10 player in Live events. Having public meetings where thousands of players show up just to Spam chat over whatever live event is happening, while being subjected to every childish thing possible by casual low lever players along for the ride.

     The "Personal" was taken out of the Matrix. The feeling of accomplishment in successfully advancing in level, and becoming a known player on your server. Feeling accomplishment when Morpheus leaves you a personal email, and you jack in and he meets with you and your crew to tell you important information. What drove the Matrix the first three months was not game content, but the content that was created by the players themselves in in their interaction with the live events team, and the other community players who were serrious about playing the game.

      I am optimistic. I want the matrix to succeed, and be a great MMO. I only say, stop trying to be every other MMO. Stop having Magicians who dominate a game where they have no place. I bet there is a very large contingency for dumping the Hacker Trees all together, and yes, I am a Balista Hacker myself, considering the only productive means of combat in the game at this point is all focused around being a Magic wielder in a game based on movies where there was none. Hmm. Even Neo wasn't a Balista Elite Uber Hacker. The Savior himself was a Martial Artist. Go figure?

      Stop live events interacting with a large ridiculous crowd at Mara Central where most of the non serrious gamers hang out. Get back to personally getting to know the players who are here, and actively involved in the Matrix. This is the Matrix. Stop trying to emulate other MMO's, and emulate the Matrix Films.

My two cents....

KenedaJade. Level 50+

Recurrsion

Welcome Archon,

this sounds VERY good. I can't wait for the Marketplace changes and the combat! This should attract alot of people.

Thanks,

4rk

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Kenedajade wrote:

(lots and lots)

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Kenedajade, Prisoner. You got my full support.Where can I buy your game? I have the urge to leave my old one...

>revolt_

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>revolt_ wrote:

Kenedajade, Prisoner. You got my full support.Where can I buy your game? I have the urge to leave my old one...

>revolt_

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Ha!  I wonder if SOE could afford to hire me into the game industry.  CV on request, Walrus :p

I have to agree with you prisoner reading about the new DPS system SOE plans and the 
idea of attacking with melee outside of combat sounds awfully alot like
WoW wich is a game I played for 358 hrs but I left because it bored me
over time so I jumped back onboard MxO because I love this game and
played it since earlyer beta and I loved interlock and the I miss the
really old bullet time sequences that were longer and made the fighting
more exciting now its alittle on the blah side with unsync bullettime
anims and odd animation movments to Interlock. there are many ways of
fixing the problems of interlock and your idea is perfect but unfortunatly SOE is taking a very  direct
and predicable approach to fixing problems rather then fully
understanding what makes this game tick. I understand many people are
anxious to get everything fixed up but things like this take time and
if people rush it you'll get horrible problems that can plague the
community for months and drop the population but I will stick around
and see what comes of these new features, if it works great! if not
well I had a great time playing this game and its time for me to find
another MMO to play.

Message Edited by Ubershank on 08-29-2005 09:18 PM

Man you are my hero, you know that? Hackers are NOT MEANT TO BE IN THIS GAME. We dont want freakin pills that fix us up from the standard hacker stun blast( OH WAIT! We have that anyway hmmm.. what are they called? Antibios.. maybe...? ), we shouldnt have hackers at all. The movies were a good way to go. I Havent been in this game for as long as some of the Beta people, but ive already hit 50, and ive got to say, theres nothing to do. You can sit around and build other trees, but why bother, they're just gonna trash em anyway. Live events are badly needed, it was one of the things i was looking forward to when i bought this game, and how many have i seen since i got here? I think one, maybe, and it wasnt a major event anyway. What happened to the assassin? He used to come into mara and trash someone then run off when i was like level 15, but now we dont even get that. At least we saw somethin...

As for the actually update, it sounds dumb. The interlock IS the best part about this game. To only have one on one fights is ludicrus. Plus how could you impliment the "more than one 40 can take a 50" thing if its only one on one? The Matrix movies were all about martial arts and guns, There werent any knife throwers, there werent any hackers, there werent even any patchers. I can tolerate those things, and i respect other people who use em, though not the trees themselves. Nobody in the matrix was "RSI revitalized" its ok that you dotn ACTUALLY DIE but noone was gettin healed by their special buddy. And no one had lightnig shoot from the shy on their opponent. It was Kung Fu, and guns guys comon.

Im intrigued about pandoras box--but i dont really know about it...

In the end, the update was refreshing to see, but the content didnt make me pleased. Interlock should stay, make the fights longer and cooler, and fix the animation bugs, dont make them shorter with NEW animations with MORE problems. and lastly, the pill sounds ok, but it doesnt really help in the long run. If it has a long reuse timer, you could still be killed by a second hacker, if you have to make em, its just another thing to farm. What a waste.

Long Comments II:  Guns

Although the MMOGs we play are not always simulations, part of what makes something “science fiction” and not “fantasy” is a credible (if sometimes tenuously credible) attachment to known reality.

For instance, the Matrix is based on the premise that the Machines found a ‘unique form of fusion’ using humans to power themselves.  Obviously this is not known tech, and based on what we now know it’s a blatant violation of the laws of physics (you never get >100% output from something), but it’s plausible enough that you can suspend disbelief and enjoy the rest of the film.  After all we nod and smile at ‘warp speed’ or ‘hyperspace’ in other SF.

But, within the Matrix, it’s supposed to be 1999.  Guns work as they do now.  They cause quite a lot of damage to humans; barring body armor a large-caliber pistol or a shotgun is going to take someone out; and a rifle-caliber round usually punches through all but the very latest military body armor.

This is reflected in the films.  The police in the opening sequence of The Matrix, the SWAT team Apoc and Switch fight in the hotel basement after the trap, even Agent Brown is dead from one bullet as long as he can’t “dodge this.”  In M:Revolutions Trin is slain by one round; the one that hits.

The only exception in the films is Neo almost-dodging Agent Brown’s shots on the rooftop in The Matrix.  There he sustains two lacerations (“not fast enough”) but they don’t appear to cause him any serious damage.

On the other hand guns do not carry infinite ammunition.  They carry 6, or 15, or 30 rounds, and then you either reload, or throw the gun away.  In the films it’s usually the latter; Neo didn’t carry two guns and six clips into the Lobby, but six guns and no extra clips.  That’s the ‘canon’ of the Matrix films.  Agent Smith says to Neo, “you’re empty.”  Neo does not reply, “Tank, load me up another clip!”

Now I know in RPGs since early D&D characters have had hit points of some sort or another, and an arrow ‘hits’ for 4 points or a sword ‘hits’ for 7 points, and this represents a blow that might have slain a less-skilled persona (like an orc), but we’re talking guns.  Fists and feet are great for this chip-away-at-hitpoints method.  Guns usually kill, or they miss.

Guns should do potentially tremendous damage (MMOG-terminology:  burst DPS) but should be very limited by their ammunition.  If you want a ‘wizard’ analogy EQ-style this is it; lots of boom but when the boom is gone that’s it.

So, when revamping the Operative tree I’d take the gun abilities in place and exponentially increase their damage.  On the other hand I’d
a) make ‘regular’ free-fire automatically degrade a gun by one status level (using ammunition);
b) make special attacks remove the gun entirely from inventory (using all the ammunition)
c) Allow characters (NPC and PC) to carry only one to three gun items at once (depending on type and for game balance)
d) Allow PCs to loot additional guns occasionally from NPCs (e.g. Neo picks up the M-16 from a fallen soldier in the Lobby)
e) Make common guns, and special earned guns, quickly ‘loadable’ for a nominal $i charge as with coded items in the Loading Area (“guns … lots of guns…”).  Game balance might determine whether a gun item could be instantiated in the Loading Area a limited or unlimited number of times. 

So, if you’re a Gunman, and you’re out of guns, you need a hardline or a fallen foe to restore your burst DPS.

On the flip side, there are quite a lot of guns in the Matrix films but the Awakened and combat-trained Machines and Exiles are very very hard to actually hit.  Trin runs walls to dodge bullets; Agents just stand in place and move around them; Merv’s vampires aren’t vulnerable to them at all.

Right now there’s one ‘Hyper-Dodge’ ability which is marginally useful.  The exciting gun scenes in the films are great because the redpills and Exiles are jumping off walls, doing impossible dodges, even standing on the ceiling. 

I’d advocate expanding this, so that each discrete branch (MA, gunmen, spies, coder/hackers) has several abilities dedicated to not being shot. 
- The first, of least defensive power, might be a permanent buff as with Empty Mind; the only real cost is the space to load it
- The second, more powerful, might be a (relatively expensive) IS-per-tick cost as with the present Hyper-Dodge; this should come with an animation (preferably the ‘agent-dodging’ animation).
- The third should be a short-term buff, just a few seconds as with Improve Damage, which dramatically increases the ability to not be hit, but requires significant IS, the loading space to use it, and correct tactics to use it at the right time; it should have a refresh timer so as to prevent players from being invulnerable to gunfire.  These definitely need animations.  Spies should roll out, or use a flash device to evade.  MA characters can jump off walls.  Hackers/Coders could displace themselves, or create doubles of themselves (and the animation could show the double being hit).
- There might be postulated a fourth such ability which simply stops bullets as The One did, but at the present this isn’t a player ability in my opinion.

Lastly, the range of guns really ought to be increased somewhat (particularly rifles/sniper rifles), BUT when someone is disarmed, the gun’s gone for good.  Draw a backup or resort to hand-to-hand.

The upshot of this suggestion is:
- Gunmen are not merely Operatives in free-fire mode, since everyone’s in free-fire mode now;
- Guns are deadly, if they hit
- Guns run out of uses quickly, and are replenished sparingly or at hardlines
- Tactical PvE and PvP choices need to be made about when to use guns, and when to use evasive abilities.  Choose wrong and get a lead enema.

Oop, forgot to write about the other distance weapon, knives.  I’d think the same evasive abilities apply to knives as to guns; knife-throwers ought not to be limited by ammunition (throwing knives are small); knives shouldn’t do as much damage as guns, but they have the advantage of surprise (it’s more likely that you’ll catch the target not using all his dodge abilities, since you’re stealthed); and knives ought to carry the special effects (stunned/rooted/bleeding) as they presently do in the ability tree.

Next up in my craziness:  Hackers and Coders.  Hopefully this piece will tie my whole thought process together as a system that's based primarily in the Matrix canon but also workable within MMOG methods.

Prisoner, those are all great ideas, but you also must think of all the work it would take to make those things happen. They would need a tremendously large patch just for the animations alone. They would have to remake the trees, and Change all the code, which, to the average consumer sounds easy enough due to the product they see, but to the programmer, could make a very difficult situation. Theyd need to render new animations, and impliment those in the game as well. Even IF they considered these ideas, they would not come into effect for a year at least, maybe more. I would have to agree with you on the points themselves, but the difficulty level to do all those things would be to great to just "patch 'em up". :smileyindifferent:

True, they do seem to be tearing the game apart. And SOE IS a big company lol. They should seriously consider your ideas, as they are good ones, even if it takes a long time to do.

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Warwraith wrote:

The prob with the reloading is two fold, space and time.  Space, I don't have enough of it in my inv as it is, I can't fill it up even more with numerous guns.  Time, I'm not going to stop half way through a mission to run to a HL and download another 30 rounds that will prob last me 2 attacks.  Maybe if we could code clips and have them in our inv, they could be stacks of 20 like everything else.

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That's my point exactly!  Guns are, in the real world, much more effective than fists, and also in the Matrix films; but in neither real life nor the films do people carry around 18 guns and 36 magazines.  They use their guns until they have no ammo, then resort to other means, including getting more guns from their enemies.

If gunfire is increased in effectiveness to a realistic power, you shouldn't expect to be able to shoot indefinitely.

You have a point, though.  Maybe many players would be upset to only use their favored attacks part of the time, so from a 'player desire' standpoint maybe more people feel as you do, and well hey, I do want the subscriber base to increase.

I just have in mind a system where gunfire is powerful but limited in use, after which gunmen, who are still Operatives, resort effectively to unarmed combat until they can find another firearm.

Message Edited by Cognoscente on 08-31-2005 09:47 PM