Sarah Emmonds?

So towards the beginning of MxO, we had a character name Sarah who apparently got up one day in the hospital and just walked out.  Since  then no one has seen her, and EPN has tried to find her through one of her friends.

What I want to know is, how will this story arc end?  Will it be mentioned in the end story events?

I second this request.  This was among the most intriguing narrative threads in the game.

Sarah Edmontons.

Rarebit said something along the lines of he didn't know what the old LET wanted to do exactly with that story so he just left it alone. So, it's probably an unknown.

GodTier wrote:

Sarah Edmontons.

Rarebit said something along the lines of he didn't know what the old LET wanted to do exactly with that story so he just left it alone. So, it's probably an unknown.

Well that just sucks....

MetaLogic wrote:

GodTier wrote:

Sarah Edmontons.

Rarebit said something along the lines of he didn't know what the old LET wanted to do exactly with that story so he just left it alone. So, it's probably an unknown.

Well that just sucks....

Agreed.

Signs wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

GodTier wrote:

Sarah Edmontons.

Rarebit said something along the lines of he didn't know what the old LET wanted to do exactly with that story so he just left it alone. So, it's probably an unknown.

Well that just sucks....

Agreed.

Sarah has got to have an end story, either she was Neo reincarnated or not.

The way I remember it, Sarah Edmontons was a storyline invented by Paul Chadwick that was never revisited, aside from one ambitious LESIG members attempt to revive it that actually got through Rarebit's screening process. That was the event where some friend of Sarah Edmontons was interrogated by some such org.

10011 wrote:

The way I remember it, Sarah Edmontons was a storyline invented by Paul Chadwick that was never revisited, aside from one ambitious LESIG members attempt to revive it that actually got through Rarebit's screening process. That was the event where some friend of Sarah Edmontons was interrogated by some such org.

It was EPN, I was part of the team on Syntax,  I think she mentioned she had a brother? and generally if I remember rightly she was just wanted to find her sister.

There was alot of debate if it was LESIG or a player

and maybe we should just acept , it was neo

In her confused state after walking out of the hospital, Sarah steps into to the street and gets hit by a City Bus.

Ic3b3rg wrote:

In her confused state after walking out of the hospital, Sarah steps into to the street and gets hit by a City Bus.

We were all watching her from the vestry and we all thought she was a b***h.

MetaLogic wrote:

Signs wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

GodTier wrote:

Sarah Edmontons.

Rarebit said something along the lines of he didn't know what the old LET wanted to do exactly with that story so he just left it alone. So, it's probably an unknown.

Well that just sucks....

Agreed.

Sarah has got to have an end story, either she was Neo reincarnated or not.

Well, it fits nicely that she doesn't get an end story since nothing else at all does.

QuiDormit wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

Signs wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

GodTier wrote:

Sarah Edmontons.

Rarebit said something along the lines of he didn't know what the old LET wanted to do exactly with that story so he just left it alone. So, it's probably an unknown.

Well that just sucks....

Agreed.

Sarah has got to have an end story, either she was Neo reincarnated or not.

Well, it fits nicely that she doesn't get an end story since nothing else at all does.

Hmm...I sense a running theme here.... =(

XElite wrote:

Ic3b3rg wrote:

In her confused state after walking out of the hospital, Sarah steps into to the street and gets hit by a City Bus.

We were all watching her from the vestry and we all thought she was a b***h.

Haha. It's like watching the Generation Game. (I assume that's a reference you'll get!)

It was asked at Fan Faire if the Sarah's story would ever continue and rarebit said no, he wasnt sure where Chadwick wanted to take it and it was just going to be left in limbo.

It seems like there was a lot Chadwick wanted to do that just wasn't possible, in large part because it took much longer to tell the story than had been anticipated, with everything going on with the transfer to SOE.

Signs wrote:

It seems like there was a lot Chadwick wanted to do that just wasn't possible, in large part because it took much longer to tell the story than had been anticipated, with everything going on with the transfer to SOE.

Not to mention the stuff he wanted to do that couldn't be conveyed by our game engine. I'm thinking of the Unlimit stuff where he wanted to have these crazy characters like Caboclo with multiple arms and the really big guy or really small guy or whatever it was.

I think a big part of what was holding them back at that point (in addition to the engine) was that they lacked a full development staff.

Back in August of 2008, there was a mini-event with Harkee and a Machinist named "Consonance," whose bluepill name was "Sarah Edmontons."  However, I don't think it was ever revealed whether or not she was the real Sarah Edmontons.  I can post the chat log here, if anyone wants to see it.

Omega0 wrote:

Back in August of 2008, there was a mini-event with Harkee and a Machinist named "Consonance," whose bluepill name was "Sarah Edmontons."  However, I don't think it was ever revealed whether or not she was the real Sarah Edmontons.  I can post the chat log here, if anyone wants to see it.

That was a player thing that I dropped the ball on.  The player gave me the outline of where the events were supposed to go and it looked good to me, but unfortunately I don't know what he did with it after that one event we had. 

If the player wants to talk about it he can but I'm not going to go revealing what his plans were. 

Signs wrote:

I think a big part of what was holding them back at that point (in addition to the engine) was that they lacked a full development staff.

   Yeah, I believe Chadwick said something about this on his blog.  He had a lot of talks with the art and animation dev about the Unlimit arc, and the dev seemed really excited to work on it, but then SOE pulled him off the project.

10011 wrote:

Signs wrote:

It seems like there was a lot Chadwick wanted to do that just wasn't possible, in large part because it took much longer to tell the story than had been anticipated, with everything going on with the transfer to SOE.

Not to mention the stuff he wanted to do that couldn't be conveyed by our game engine. I'm thinking of the Unlimit stuff where he wanted to have these crazy characters like Caboclo with multiple arms and the really big guy or really small guy or whatever it was.

Yes The Chad should have chickedy checked himself before he wrecked himself with the pew pew lazer Fail story arc.

I kind of like leaving the question of her identity open-ended, just like I hope they keep the ending of the game open-ended.  I don't want everything tied up in a neat little package on July 31st; I don't want to hear that one org invented a superweapon that defeated the other orgs once and for all. 

Lyr

Illyria22 wrote:

I kind of like leaving the question of her identity open-ended, just like I hope they keep the ending of the game open-ended.  I don't want everything tied up in a neat little package on July 31st; I don't want to hear that one org invented a superweapon that defeated the other orgs once and for all. 

Lyr

Yea, but I doubt this story will be revisited, I think this is the ultimate end, so might as well tie everything up.

Just by going back and looking over what we now know we can answer some of the questions about who Sarah Edmontons was suspected of being.

The Revolutions Script writes Neo off as being dead (it states "Neo dies" and mentions his lifeless body) and Keanu himself has commented saying that his character died at the end of the film. So already we can write Neo off the list since the W bros intended for him to die. Bringing him back after all negates the whole "martyr" thing they were going for and really is just bad writing.

Also we can scratch off her being some kind of "BIP" similar to Trinty since the Trinity one is the only one of the two remaining.

My personal opinion is that the character Sarah Edmontons was created by either the General, Morpheus, or the Machines for the intentions of restarting the war, gain further support, or root out the extremist within Zion. There was a machine or Zion mission i believe in the chapter 5 to 7 range where you could hack a computer that said there is no record of anyone called "SE". It’s not the big of a stretch to interpret this as Rarebits way of closing that loose end and announcing her as never having existed in the first place.

Personally, I would have loved to see laser vision in the game (for the Unlimits, not players, of course), as well as all of the other wacky stuff Paul Chadwick cooked up for that story arc.  It made a lot of sense to me, since the Matrix has always been a very superhero comic-inspired series, and Chadwick was simply re-examining staples of that genre in unique ways.  I think a lot of people working on Matrix Online, since its inception, where worried too much about making it distinctly reminiscent of the first film throughout its entire being, and this was one of the many small failures that ultimately led to its downfall.  That chapter of the Matrix story had been told, and I think it was silly to try to take the Matrix back to that point.  Overall, I think the Matrix succeeded in a lot of ways.  It was a very unconventional and innovative interactive work of art.  It was not uncompromising enough, though.  I think it's ultimate failure lies in not being unconventional enough.

Also, I disagree that Neo's death automatically means The One cannot return.  There are numerous ways one could continue the story of The One without saying "Neo didn't really die."

Signs wrote:

Also, I disagree that Neo's death automatically means The One cannot return.  There are numerous ways one could continue the story of The One without saying "Neo didn't really die."

But there aren't. In Reloaded the Architect tells us that "The One" is an inherit flaw in the Matrix that accures once and will not accure again untill after the system is rebooted. Neo put an end to this by dying before the code inside him could reset the system and by doing so ended teh cycle makeing it impossible for another "One" to be made within it.

Reseting the Matrix from a story perspective also undoes everything that was acomplished in the movies as the overall goal of the Oracles and later Neo's was to remove everyone from their dependency of the cycle so that a peace could be made. 

In Rarebit's conclusion to the story, the BIP enters the Source after having taken a human host.  Once inside, the reset occurs as the room becomes black then white.  However, at that point, a new Matrix is established where humans are born free of the confines of the old system and are looked after by the Machines.  The old system remains in place where redpills/exiles/etc continue their existence.

My guess would be that Sarah Edmontons was merely a temporary host for the BIP as we saw it possess bluepills during its escape from the Oligarchs.  I'd say that Sarah is probably in a trash bin in a back alley somewhere.

GamiSB wrote:

Signs wrote:

Also, I disagree that Neo's death automatically means The One cannot return.  There are numerous ways one could continue the story of The One without saying "Neo didn't really die."

But there aren't. In Reloaded the Architect tells us that "The One" is an inherit flaw in the Matrix that accures once and will not accure again untill after the system is rebooted. Neo put an end to this by dying before the code inside him could reset the system and by doing so ended teh cycle makeing it impossible for another "One" to be made within it.

Reseting the Matrix from a story perspective also undoes everything that was acomplished in the movies as the overall goal of the Oracles and later Neo's was to remove everyone from their dependency of the cycle so that a peace could be made. 

This is what is supposed to happen.  The One's code is not supposed to return in the form of another until the system is reset, but in the Matrix, as we all should know very well by now, a lot of things happen that aren't supposed to happen.  Because of what Neo did, the Matrix has entered entirely new territory, and I doubt anyone can really predict all that might happen next.  Also, in "The Matrix: Revolutions," the Oracle implied that the Architect's analytical perspective was inherently limited, and that he is thus not as omniscient as he likes to let on.  The Architect is not the final authority on what is possible in the Matrix.  According to the Architect, what Neo did should not have been possible.

The way i saw it was she was going to be the first ever female 'one' (if there hadn't been a female before) but well it never went anywhere (prob before i even started playing aswell to. Only heard the name on Wiki.)

Signs wrote:

This is what is supposed to happen.  The One's code is not supposed to return in the form of another until the system is reset, but in the Matrix, as we all should know very well by now, a lot of things happen that aren't supposed to happen.  Because of what Neo did, the Matrix has entered entirely new territory, and I doubt anyone can really predict all that might happen next.  Also, in "The Matrix: Revolutions," the Oracle implied that the Architect's analytical perspective was inherently limited, and that he is thus not as omniscient as he likes to let on.  The Architect is not the final authority on what is possible in the Matrix.  According to the Architect, what Neo did should not have been possible.

Your theory depends heavily on an "if" scenario, one that has no cause or reason to bring it about.

Also you’re confusing the authorities of the Architect and the Oracle. The Architect is the end all knows all of the Matrix. He knows exactly what can and can't happen within its programming and what will cause which reaction. However he is limited by numbers and can never accurately predict what actions a person might take, this is the Oracles realm. In other words he knows all the options and outcomes of each but never which a person might take.

Also what he says to Neo in Reloaded is if anything a bluff on his own part to attempt at changing Neo's mind about which door he was going to take. As we discovered in MxO’s story the Machines are barely surviving off the Matrix as is and had Neo failed it was game over for everyone human or machine. There is no other level of survival left for the Machines which Neo knew and called his bluff on it.

Possibly, however the way I understood it the BIP had been placed in the Ouroboros mainframe right after it was recovered from Trinity. But I could be wrong here.

Also the name anagram still has me believe that she was intended to have some connection with Neo of which Trinity's BIP had none.

GamiSB wrote:

Signs wrote:

This is what is supposed to happen.  The One's code is not supposed to return in the form of another until the system is reset, but in the Matrix, as we all should know very well by now, a lot of things happen that aren't supposed to happen.  Because of what Neo did, the Matrix has entered entirely new territory, and I doubt anyone can really predict all that might happen next.  Also, in "The Matrix: Revolutions," the Oracle implied that the Architect's analytical perspective was inherently limited, and that he is thus not as omniscient as he likes to let on.  The Architect is not the final authority on what is possible in the Matrix.  According to the Architect, what Neo did should not have been possible.

Your theory depends heavily on an "if" scenario, one that has no cause or reason to bring it about.

Also you’re confusing the authorities of the Architect and the Oracle. The Architect is the end all knows all of the Matrix. He knows exactly what can and can't happen within its programming and what will cause which reaction. However he is limited by numbers and can never accurately predict what actions a person might take, this is the Oracles realm. In other words he knows all the options and outcomes of each but never which a person might take.

Also what he says to Neo in Reloaded is if anything a bluff on his own part to attempt at changing Neo's mind about which door he was going to take. As we discovered in MxO’s story the Machines are barely surviving off the Matrix as is and had Neo failed it was game over for everyone human or machine. There is no other level of survival left for the Machines which Neo knew and called his bluff on it.

You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information.  It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other.  And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model.  It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings.  Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is.  We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc.  But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable.  As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually.  Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story.

As for the code of "The One", this is what The Architect said.

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Which kinda leads me to believe that the codes of the one are a remainder of the calculation of The Matrix.  Since those calculations are still going on, what's happening to the remainders?  Are they just piling up somewhere?

Sarah Edmontons is an anagram for Thomas Anderson. I'm sure that's just coincidence though, right?

Just throwing that out there.

I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.

Signs wrote:

You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information.  It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other.  And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model.  It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings.  Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is.  We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc.  But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable.  As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually.  Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story.

We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.

And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.

Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever. 

Bayamos wrote:

I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.

Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.

GamiSB wrote:

Bayamos wrote:

I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.

Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.

Yes and which character says this?  I ripped out all the audio files but I havent had a chance to listen to them all yet.

You guys, the story was loosely defined to begin with. Chadwick made up a bunch of stuff that never went anywhere because it was either never intended to or they didn't get around to it. Then Rarebit made things worse by making up his own stuff. It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.

I honestly would say to completely disregard anything after the first 2 years, especially anything that came after the cinematics stopped being rendered with the in-game engine. The months the game was with Monolith is the only time things were going completely as planned with the story.

But to be truthful, in the future for any new movies, games, or comics, the entirety of The Matrix Online's story will likely be completely disregarded and ignored. Make your own peace with what happened, but there's no way to figure much of any "canonical" events with this story, besides the very beginning with Morpheus and the search for Neo and the truce and all of us as new redpills.

Foxxdie wrote:

It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.

   Examples?

Villemar_MxO wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Bayamos wrote:

I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.

Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.

Yes and which character says this?  I ripped out all the audio files but I havent had a chance to listen to them all yet.

   Morpheus said this in both his initial meeting at the beginning of the "Hunt for Morpheus" event, and in an audio document found in the 1.3 missions (seen at the top of the page in that link).

Othinn1 wrote:

Foxxdie wrote:

It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.

   Examples?

I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.

Foxxdie wrote:

Othinn1 wrote:

Foxxdie wrote:

It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.

   Examples?

I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.

   *shrugs*

GamiSB wrote:

Signs wrote:

You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information.  It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other.  And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model.  It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings.  Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is.  We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc.  But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable.  As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually.  Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story.

We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.

And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.

Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever. 

All I can say is, presented with the exact same information you have, I have come to radically different conclusions about what the Matrix is.  One of the great things about the Matrix meta-narrative is that it is open to a wide variety of interpretations, and it will be interesting to see where the future takes it.  I say it "will" be interesting and not it "may" or "might" be interesting because I'll be damned if the Matrix ever fades slowly in the dark while I'm still here.  

Just to be clear, though, I don't think the Architect was being deceptive at any point (I don't think he's capable of it).  I think that his perspective is more limited than he cares to admit to himself.  He (along with the Oracle) is a construction of infinitely complex Machines for the purpose with dealing with humans, beings who are much more finite and limited in nature.  The Architect, the Oracle, the Agents... none of them are given all the information.  They are the middlemen.  The closest we have to the word directly from the Source (literally) about what the Matrix is came with Neo's encounter with Deus Ex Machina, who said, "We don't need you!  We need nothing!"  and asks, "What do you want?"

Othinn1 wrote:

Foxxdie wrote:

Othinn1 wrote:

Foxxdie wrote:

It all got way too convoluted with little answers and little making sense.

   Examples?

I refer you to everything after the cinematics stopped. Take care.

   *shrugs*

In regards to this, aside from the Unlimit arc, I'm quite satisfied with the storyline from 1.1 to 8.3.  9.1 and beyond dragged out far too long and to me seemed to meander off into jump the shark land by 12.1.  Although had Rare been able to make it through to the end of Chapter 14, I think it might have resolved itself satisfyingly.  Chapter 15 on I cant even concieve of