Where does this leave us?

Neoteny wrote:

12.2 and beyond never happened, and in my eyes, are disgusting. Gold hallways? Blah. Trinity-Player super fusion-ha super saiyan power go? No. Two Matrices? No way in hell. Peace? I don't buy it.

That stuff is only in Chapter 14. Are you going to dismiss everything else Rarebit planned based on just that?

And for those who hate the Oligarch storyline, is it only because they appear without RSIs, or do you have a more grounded dislike based on the scenario as a whole (their interactions with the Machines since the War, their domains across the globe, etc.)?

I like the idea of the Gold Hallways and the whiteout sky, very apt. The idea of Trinity merging with a player (or all players undertaking that mission) sounds a bit iffy tbh. The dual Matrices idea is interesting but basically would seperate the story from the player which is the same problem with the 'war' and current oligarch story.

Peace? I don't think would happen just like that. Restoration of the truce.. perhaps, better relations.. possibly. Peace? Nah.

Thing is, these were just sketchy plans, an outline it was never gonna be definitive.

Procurator wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

12.2 and beyond never happened, and in my eyes, are disgusting. Gold hallways? Blah. Trinity-Player super fusion-ha super saiyan power go? No. Two Matrices? No way in hell. Peace? I don't buy it.

That stuff is only in Chapter 14. Are you going to dismiss everything else Rarebit planned based on just that?

And for those who hate the Oligarch storyline, is it only because they appear without RSIs, or do you have a more grounded dislike based on the scenario as a whole (their interactions with the Machines since the War, their domains across the globe, etc.)?

I think they had that much power over the machines, sureley they would have just took to over throw them eventually? I just don't like the idea of yet another party involved in the war. It just all seems  a bit silly and something like fan fic to me. It just all got a bit ..ya know out there...in the movies, they always made you think this could actually be true..with this storyline its  a bit like sureley people would notice?(The way it has admitedly been for most of MxO's storyline.) Also about the control they had over the machines, they sureley would have wanted to know what was going out and they sort of just ignored what happend in the matrix films time line? Without knowing about it?

I no longer feel, we can forget the silly storylines but we do have to move away and let go of them.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

MatrixRefugee wrote:

It would seem a bit short-changed and little rushed, but that's just me saying it. I like the outline that we have for Chapters 12.2-14, and while it might be a bit spoilery, I'd still like to see it fleshed out. I'd be a litte "huh? What happened? where are we going now?" if we glossed over the next six months or so of storyline. Blacking out for that long is a bit unrealistic (even for science fiction), since that would have to cover the whereabouts of the entire playerbase for that amount of time...

Player Cinematics and Sentinal articles for 12.2 - 14. 

Oh and I'm sure you can manage to RP that.  You've probably already made up an RP story revolving around Patch Error -15.  

Player Cinematics and Sentinal articles for those chapters would be nice, but it really wouldn't hold a candle to actually playing out those events, but again, that's just how I see it.

And yeah, I did have an idea in the back of my head as to what was causing the Patch Error, but I wasn't sure if people would consider it feasible or if they'd accept it. I've had my ideas laughed at, which is one reason I tend to shy away from sharing big ideas about the universe.

We can't just pick up the storyline where Rare left off, for two reasons:

1) we have no story-telling DEV that has the tools to implement the story in a real and tangible way

2) the in-game artifacts left by the end of chapter 14 (gold hallways? NPC's?) will not exist

Any attempt on our part to continue through the end of the story as Rarebit envisioned it would be only be RP. There are a few creative people out there who have grandiose ideas about how to finish Rarebit stories off. It will be entertaining, to be sure. But in the end, there won't be anything that exists in the Matrix Online that will further the story.

Anyhow, I'm breaking my own rules.

I think if we want to stand still in time, we can. In my opinion, though, it would suck in the extreme. It would be incredibly boring because it's not the Matrix that we want. Machines not fighting the war they restarted just because of the Oligarchs that no one will ever see again. Zion trying to find the Trinity/BIP that no longer exists. The Merovingian trying to make friends with one while hunting the other. It's a perpetual deadlock that we can't break because we don't have the tools.

On the other hand, since RP is pretty much the only real tool we have at our disposal, we could make up our own d*** minds (as it was so eloquently put) to consider the story to be at an end. That is, we take the broad strokes of what Rarebit gave us for the final chapters and we agree that it has happened. Because let's face it, we can't really do anything else.

Cloudwolf thinks that we may never reach an agreement amongst ourselves. He's content to step back and wait for a Dev to make the choice for us. To me, this is not in the spirit of the Matrix, nor is it the concept that the Matrix Online was built around. "The future of the Matrix is in your hands." Remember that?

I say we wash our hands of this storyline. Get back to our roots. See what we can do with it. 

RetroX wrote:

I think they had that much power over the machines, sureley they would have just took to over throw them eventually? I just don't like the idea of yet another party involved in the war. It just all seems  a bit silly and something like fan fic to me. It just all got a bit ..ya know out there...in the movies, they always made you think this could actually be true..with this storyline its  a bit like sureley people would notice?(The way it has admitedly been for most of MxO's storyline.) Also about the control they had over the machines, they sureley would have wanted to know what was going out and they sort of just ignored what happend in the matrix films time line? Without knowing about it?

Why would they want to overthrow the Machines? As far as I could make out their lives were pretty peachy up until recent developments, too concerned about themselves than what the Machines were doing. They probably didn't care one bit about what was going on in the matrix as long as the Machines didn't violate their location(s) and kept to the arrangements (taking people out of the pods etc..)

The only thing about the storyline which would give pause for a bluepill to notice would be the appearance of the Oligarchs but then there will always be compromises between aspects of a game and aspects of a film. Bluepills apparently don't see the hacks players throw out (again hacks are a compromise between the franchise and the MMO model - Rarebit even said one time that if it were up to him MxO would have been Guns, MA and command line hacking at a terminal.) and anything out of the ordinary (like seeing Halborn/Carlyne) they're conditioned to try to rationalise it what they've seen or dismiss it.

I don't think it matters what parts of what story you like or dislike, what is done is done and the most assured fact is that those particular storylines have no possible way to develop or resolve themselves... even with another dev on board the need for mystery will deny the exposed plotlines Rare released - sad but true.

So what we have to deal with what is left, and that is a beautifully reslised matrix environment, a vast but singual location in which future, smaller-scale, player led stories can develop and one which should finction to actively encourage players to develop, a city brought to life by its citizens etc.

It is the situation/scenario we are left with that has to work to offer this encouragement, to involve and immerse players in the world so they care enough to want to continue..... we either have to abadon everything that has been introduced since the end of Revolutions OR better yet find or lobby for the means to resolve or destroy those links that make Matrix online contradictory or incompatible with what we see each and every time we log in..... for me the war is the biggest problem, people log in to mission, or chat, or party, or plan and that is only a logical eventuality if the Matrix exists at some level of peace....the truce has to be reasserted or the demands of the Matrix online interface are an overt contradiction to every player led event that is ever coordinated within the matrix =/

monkeymanx8 wrote:

Phrack wrote:

- Everything that happened before and leading up to 12.1, has actually happened (whether we like it or not).

- Everything that happens beginning at and following 12.2 hasn't happened, and therefore has not been written in stone.  What Rarebit posted was essentially an "Alternate Ending" to what could happen now... which could very well be much more epic, for all we know.

- Discussion settled.

Rarebit said his "alternate ending" was approved by the Wachowski Bros. Regardless of whether it was truly executed, it's really a matter of opinion on whether you consider 12.2 and on to be canon. A lot of people would consider the W Bros' say-so to be absolute regarding The Matrix's story.

For the record, I'm not telling you people to go back to chapter eight.  I only said that is what I've done with my character.  This ridiculous Oligarch storyline is nothing more than a non-canon fanfiction written by a guy that has not cared one bit about the Matrix story, as far as I'm concerned.

You all can believe what you want, but don't tell me that I have to accept or acknowledge this storyline.  My character never gave two squats about the Oligarchs and has always remained focused on the war.  You guys want to buy into the Oligarch stuff, more power to you.  I choose not to.  And now that Rarebit's gone, I'm also going back to accepting that reinsertion is possible, as shown and proven in the Matrix comics.

Matrix Comics = Canon.  They are published and edited by the Wachowski Brothers.  They personally selected each comic.

Rarebit =/= Canon.

But could you accept it as "some non-sensical crap you've heard rumors about but haven't experienced first hand, and in any case, shouldn't deter us from focusing on fighting the war"?

You know, just for the sake of consensus?

ShiXinFeng wrote:

But could you accept it as "some non-sensical crap you've heard rumors about but haven't experienced first hand, and in any case, shouldn't deter us from focusing on fighting the war"?

You know, just for the sake of consensus?

Yeah, that's pretty much what I do.  I have to accept what's actually in the game.  But yeah, I look at it as ridiculous crap that has no bearing on me or what I do.  Actually, the only piece of the Oligarchs that I've ever really acknowledged is coming across Halborn's ship during the Lock battle, and then several months of trying to recreate (unsuccessfully) that technology for myself.

Lol, at least get your facts right before casting his work aside as non-cannon.

Reinsertion not being possible wasn't just Rarebit's concept, it was Chadwick's, who stood even closer to the Wachowskis.

Second, Chadwick/Chamberlain storyline up to and including chapter 9 was read and accepted by the W brothers. That includes the Oligarch backstory, the Oracle's death and the 2 oligarchs in search of the BIP.

Fen wrote:

For the record, I'm not telling you people to go back to chapter eight.  I only said that is what I've done with my character.  This ridiculous Oligarch storyline is nothing more than a non-canon fanfiction written by a guy that has not cared one bit about the Matrix story, as far as I'm concerned.

You all can believe what you want, but don't tell me that I have to accept or acknowledge this storyline.  My character never gave two squats about the Oligarchs and has always remained focused on the war.  You guys want to buy into the Oligarch stuff, more power to you.  I choose not to.  And now that Rarebit's gone, I'm also going back to accepting that reinsertion is possible, as shown and proven in the Matrix comics.

Matrix Comics = Canon.  They are published and edited by the Wachowski Brothers.  They personally selected each comic.

Rarebit =/= Canon.

*cough* Goliath *cough*

Villemar_MxO wrote:

*cough* Goliath *cough*

That would make for some epic skull style RP.

Hyperviolent wrote:

Lol, at least get your facts right before casting his work aside as non-cannon.

Reinsertion not being possible wasn't just Rarebit's concept, it was Chadwick's, who stood even closer to the Wachowskis.

Second, Chadwick/Chamberlain storyline up to and including chapter 9 was read and accepted by the W brothers. That includes the Oligarch backstory, the Oracle's death and the 2 oligarchs in search of the BIP.

So Rarebit said. 

Rarebit didn't know Mauser was freeborn.  Rarebit has also never read the Matrix Comics.  The Matrix Comics are canon, which are published and edited by the W. Bros, as well as opening words by them in each volume.

I don't understand why so many are willing to accept his word as canon, when he obviously had no regard in getting his own darn facts straight.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Fen wrote:

For the record, I'm not telling you people to go back to chapter eight.  I only said that is what I've done with my character.  This ridiculous Oligarch storyline is nothing more than a non-canon fanfiction written by a guy that has not cared one bit about the Matrix story, as far as I'm concerned.

You all can believe what you want, but don't tell me that I have to accept or acknowledge this storyline.  My character never gave two squats about the Oligarchs and has always remained focused on the war.  You guys want to buy into the Oligarch stuff, more power to you.  I choose not to.  And now that Rarebit's gone, I'm also going back to accepting that reinsertion is possible, as shown and proven in the Matrix comics.

Matrix Comics = Canon.  They are published and edited by the Wachowski Brothers.  They personally selected each comic.

Rarebit =/= Canon.

*cough* Goliath *cough*

Shush.  We don't talk about that.

I think read and accepted by the W bros is likely an acronym for sent to their secretary, checked by the legal dept for IP violations with regard to the original contract and rubberstamped and returned.

But in any event the story was dealing with matters and events outside the simulation, so in the absence of the word of law from some dev level storyteller it is completely inaccesesible on any coherent basis by the players.

If we get another dev storyteller all bets are off, but if we dont we need the Matrix to be presented to players in a form they can immediately recognise and use as a canvas to paint their own stories...... rp and involvement needs to be encouraged by an environment that welcomes both from players new and old and not one that presents a series of profound contradictions and requires a fanatically attention to detail to get anywhere near up to speed.

A matrix that is accessible and recognisable to new and old player alike is one that possibly has a future, a matrix that is remote and contradictory certainly hasn't.

Fen wrote:

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Fen wrote:

For the record, I'm not telling you people to go back to chapter eight.  I only said that is what I've done with my character.  This ridiculous Oligarch storyline is nothing more than a non-canon fanfiction written by a guy that has not cared one bit about the Matrix story, as far as I'm concerned.

You all can believe what you want, but don't tell me that I have to accept or acknowledge this storyline.  My character never gave two squats about the Oligarchs and has always remained focused on the war.  You guys want to buy into the Oligarch stuff, more power to you.  I choose not to.  And now that Rarebit's gone, I'm also going back to accepting that reinsertion is possible, as shown and proven in the Matrix comics.

Matrix Comics = Canon.  They are published and edited by the Wachowski Brothers.  They personally selected each comic.

Rarebit =/= Canon.

*cough* Goliath *cough*

Shush.  We don't talk about that.

SELECTIVE FANBOYISM

THIS MAN'S MASTERED IT.

Where does this leave us?

It lets you focus on your personal characters and friends backgrounds and to start other stories.

You can never do anything that will involve a storyline character or anything that was requested from them.

Now is the time to find other Role Player and have a feud or hovercraft battles to destory there ship/fleet.

cloudwolf wrote:

So it looks like theres 3 main suggestions popping up:

• Chapter 8, perpetual war, before the Oligarchs.
• Chapter 12.1, perpetual limbo with the current situation.
• Chapter 15, post-Rarebit's outlines.

Now the question is which one should "the devs" mark as "official", because lets be honest, we'll never agree among ourselves.

((Definately Chapter 15, post-Rarebit's outlines. His notes will needs a few tweaks but it is ok. As for afterwards, well I been thinking about that, but for obvious reasons this isn't concrete.))

Okay here is what I thought about for Chapter 15.1 Cinematic and story:

 Basically The Machines contact New Zion about a renewed Truce, and talk about important issues that need to be resolved, for example, the status of New Zion, The Machines cutting of all aid to the Cypherites, Zion cutting of all aid to E Pluribus Neo etc etc.

Meanwhile the Merovingian ponders about the idea of having his existance and the existance of his fellow Exiles extend to the Real World by using the Androids the Oligarchs constructed for themselves and somehow transfering their RSI code to the Androids. The Merovingian orders the General to search the No Fly Zone to find any data regarding this matter.

Meanwhile E Pluribus Neo get's a New Controller, who goes by the name of Hestia, who was a close friend of Shimada's and is still upset about the loss, but she is willing to take up the mantle of Controller.

Also last but not least, a Cypherite ship in the Real World near the Machine City stumbles across a ship they don't recognise. At first they try hailing the ship but get no response and then tell them if they don't respond they will open fire. All of a sudden the mystery ship fires of a EMP and the Cypherite ship goes dead, while the mystery ship just open fires with it's guns at the ship killing the pilot and some of the crew and then takes off. On board the ship you see the Operator Link talk to someone you can't see as he is blackened, the conversation is as follows.

 Mystery Figure :  This location is no longer secure, time to move on.

 Link: We been out here so long, do you still think we will be able to find him?

 Mystery Figure: I promised I would never give up looking for him so long as I live, I do not intend to stop now.

 Link: Ok sir, I trust you sir. It will be good to see him again, even if he is dead.

 Mystery Figure: Yes It would be good to see him once more.

 Meanwhile on board The Hovercraft: Blue Dreamer, Veil is at the communications terminal talking to someone. Conversation is as follows.

 Veil: Are you sure about this dearie?

 Random Cypherite: yes I am sure.

 Veil: Ok I will tell Cryptos dearie.

 Comms terminal goes blank and Cryptos walks in.

 Cryptos: What is it Veil?

 Veil: The Nyx was attacked by a unknown ship, their location was near the Machine City.

 Cryptos: That is odd, no Non-Machine aligned ship ever goes that close to zero one. Have people look into it Veil, both in the Matrix and here in the Real.

Veil: *does a blowkiss at Cryptos and winks* Will do dearie.

((I know this won't be official but I am just spouting out an idea))

Oops sorry double post.

Ooh... love the Chapter 15 ideas, xenin!

SampleNow wrote:

Where does this leave us?

It lets you focus on your personal characters and friends backgrounds and to start other stories.

You can never do anything that will involve a storyline character or anything that was requested from them.

Now is the time to find other Role Player and have a feud or hovercraft battles to destory there ship/fleet.

What this man said.

I feel that those who have departed from the Simulation (especially the heavier Role Players) at least are much less active with in it - have done so because they felt that the main storyline for quite a while now has been as Tytanya said remote and contradictory.

While it is indeed an intersting exploration of the franchise, I do not think it has the capacity nor mechanisms available for us to be completely reliant upon it as a basis and guide for our interactions.

---

Edit: Actually, I love the spirit of your post xenin and quite like the sound of its outlines. Enthusiasm, passion and an incurable curiosity is what made this place a great place to be in the first place. You shouldn't ever lose that.

It's a great lead forward, but nut that I am, I still insist on at least some explanation of the removal of the Oligarchs, and in keeping with Ye Olde Matrixe tradition, you could put more mystery into your idea. I'm not bashing it or anything, just saying the "O hai its Morpheus" thing could be a lot more subtle or mysterious.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

It's a great lead forward, but nut that I am, I still insist on at least some explanation of the removal of the Oligarchs, and in keeping with Ye Olde Matrixe tradition, you could put more mystery into your idea. I'm not bashing it or anything, just saying the "O hai its Morpheus" thing could be a lot more subtle or mysterious.

Removal of the Oligarchs = Operatives within the Simulation were split into factioning parties of those who supported their presence within the Matrix and those who sought to hinder them at every available opportunity with the long term goal of denying them entrance to the Matrix on a more permanent basis. Eventually, the opposing party found themselves victorious, coding for themselves an override code, based on a code sample retrieved from an Accelerated Exile and Agent, which disabled the Oligarchs' jack - in procedures, thus rendering them unable to enter the Simulation.

(Metaphor for DN1 yet still storyline-tastic and not too far from the truth.)

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

It's a great lead forward, but nut that I am, I still insist on at least some explanation of the removal of the Oligarchs, and in keeping with Ye Olde Matrixe tradition, you could put more mystery into your idea. I'm not bashing it or anything, just saying the "O hai its Morpheus" thing could be a lot more subtle or mysterious.

 Well I did say it wasn't concrete. But Yeah as for the Oligarchs, I would go with Rarebits notes and said the main body of Oligarchs were wiped out, while the remnants or those who weren't all at the No Fly Zone gather and restart, which by the way will take a long time.

And yeah I could have left out the Morpheus/ Link conversation to make it more mysterious. I enjoy constructive critisicism. Thanks Zippy

XElite wrote:

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

It's a great lead forward, but nut that I am, I still insist on at least some explanation of the removal of the Oligarchs, and in keeping with Ye Olde Matrixe tradition, you could put more mystery into your idea. I'm not bashing it or anything, just saying the "O hai its Morpheus" thing could be a lot more subtle or mysterious.

Removal of the Oligarchs = Operatives within the Simulation were split into factioning parties of those who supported their presence within the Matrix and those who sought to hinder them at every available opportunity with the long term goal of denying them entrance to the Matrix on a more permanent basis. Eventually, the opposing party found themselves victorious, coding for themselves an override code, based on a code sample retrieved from an Accelerated Exile and Agent, which disabled the Oligarchs' jack - in procedures, thus rendering them unable to enter the Simulation.

(Metaphor for DN1 yet still storyline-tastic and not too far from the truth.)

It's simple, straight, direct, and workable. I love it. Finally, someone who can get to me on my level, wherever the hell it is.

No, wait, one little add-on... "also code samples retrieved from Oligarchs.." okay, I feel better.

SampleNow wrote:

Where does this leave us?

It lets you focus on your personal characters and friends backgrounds and to start other stories.

You can never do anything that will involve a storyline character or anything that was requested from them.

Now is the time to find other Role Player and have a feud or hovercraft battles to destory there ship/fleet.

This goes without saying, and is the reason for this thread. This discussion will, hopefully, lead us all to a place where we can begin to develop our characters anew, engage other factions in hostilities, and write our own stories from our own perspectives about the end of the Oligarchs, or critical hovercraft battles, or Matrix raids or whatever.

There must be a foundation first, though. We, as a community, should agree on where the stories will begin. To borrow a phrase from another sci fi epic, "so say we all."

ShiXinFeng wrote:

SampleNow wrote:

Where does this leave us?

It lets you focus on your personal characters and friends backgrounds and to start other stories.

You can never do anything that will involve a storyline character or anything that was requested from them.

Now is the time to find other Role Player and have a feud or hovercraft battles to destory there ship/fleet.

This goes without saying, and is the reason for this thread. This discussion will, hopefully, lead us all to a place where we can begin to develop our characters anew, engage other factions in hostilities, and write our own stories from our own perspectives about the end of the Oligarchs, or critical hovercraft battles, or Matrix raids or whatever.

There must be a foundation first, though. We, as a community, should agree on where the stories will begin. To borrow a phrase from another sci fi epic, "so say we all."

umm.. yeah, this is what we should do. But, uhh, yeah, did you miss the part where its not gonna happen?

Gonna say it again, lonly using different words than I did four pages ago... We got dumped.

And can you blame the man? Look at all the s**t hes had to put up with "ZOMG UR RUINING MY MATRIX!!"

Yeah.. its a game. It even started out cool. However, it is in fact situated in the Real.

In the Real, people have lives and move on.

In the Real, not every story line gets finished to the 100% satisfaction of its fanbase.

In the Real, people do not always all "Come together" in beautiful harmony.

We are in the Real now. Story over. It really doesn't matter that Rarebit said "the story is in our hands", because there is not any mechanism for us to execute the story and too many potential storytellers. Rare was being, as ever, hopefull. I agreed with his ideas and most of the story outline (and, yeah, im sorry, but i dont think he was lieing when he said the Bro's gave their approval for the overall story concept. And i don't believe they just rubber stamped it either. Would you take yer most famous work of art and say, "here ya go, do whatever you like with it."? Maybe they didn't approve every word, but they approved of the general shape of the story. And as far as Canon, I dont think there is one. This was the canon of the Game, nothing more. The comics are something else. And its pretty clear that the Brothers are ok with alternate stories and endings, just look at the other two games.)

However, I think IF Rare believed that, as players, we could take over the "Official" story, he was daead wrong. And he never said that. I just think that where we go from here, is now up to us. Individually. Not as a group, for the simple reason that its impossible, and resulting conflict of attempting to do it would only drive more people away from a game thats in its apparent death-throes already.

We don't need a "concensus" on what happened IC. We need to get over this idea. We need to play the game for whatever reasons we individually have to continue playing. We need to write whatever stories we want, post them, and let people tell us what they think.

We need the "Official" story to become an Open RP, where anyone is free to post and create their own ideas about what the Matrix is.

I'm sorry, but if you have built your Characters around the "current" events of the game, you need to accept that they are gone, and rebuild your character. I alos think we need to accept that there is, now, basically NO CANON. Its gone. How can you have an Official story that has no ending and never will? You can't. So Canon is over. We don't need it any more. Instead, look at the last four years like it was all one big Player event. The event planner(s) quit, so we never get to play it out.

Can I say it one more time?

MOVE ON.

So, Psilody, just out of curiosity, how are you going to play it? In character, I mean. You going to ignore the last few chapters? Play as though Rare finished the story?

Just call it like you see it is all I'm asking.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

XElite wrote:

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

It's a great lead forward, but nut that I am, I still insist on at least some explanation of the removal of the Oligarchs, and in keeping with Ye Olde Matrixe tradition, you could put more mystery into your idea. I'm not bashing it or anything, just saying the "O hai its Morpheus" thing could be a lot more subtle or mysterious.

Removal of the Oligarchs = Operatives within the Simulation were split into factioning parties of those who supported their presence within the Matrix and those who sought to hinder them at every available opportunity with the long term goal of denying them entrance to the Matrix on a more permanent basis. Eventually, the opposing party found themselves victorious, coding for themselves an override code, based on a code sample retrieved from an Accelerated Exile and Agent, which disabled the Oligarchs' jack - in procedures, thus rendering them unable to enter the Simulation.

(Metaphor for DN1 yet still storyline-tastic and not too far from the truth.)

It's simple, straight, direct, and workable. I love it. Finally, someone who can get to me on my level, wherever the hell it is.

No, wait, one little add-on... "also code samples retrieved from Oligarchs.." okay, I feel better.

Huh? If this is following chapter 14, the removal of the Oligarchs is already explained with both the Trinity kill code (killing any who were using the Trinity program to inhabit human bodies) and the reset of the Matrix following Trinity's merge with the source (which got rid of Oligarch override control, rendering the remainder unable to jack in).

I don't see why the Oligarchy couldn't have left the Simulation again when it was revealed that Trinity was a program and the two Oligarchs could be satisfied with this information as they would be the only ones knowing it? Maybe Rare posting up how it was suppossed to end in chapter 14 got a lot of you looking in the wrong direction of the story. The story is Now... why not leave from there? The override ingame content to further back up that story arc. along with 50+ Live Event posts. A possible reason for the leaving could be explained as we (the Redpills) actually together do stand a chance of killing them.. a thing they're not very happy to admit but it's a fact and they'll have to adjust to that fact. Sure it was with the help of Carlyne that Zion got the kill on Halborn but still.. The Merv could be the missing link (and heck he's have had no real role to play in the story for a year or more, maybe just maybe he could be the one with the codes to keep the Oligarchy out forever.) Then we're basicly back to the three orgs and sub-orgs again. Where we go from there I guess we could work out either a war or a peace negotiation fundament. It's that hard?.. yet, we've agreed on an imaginary universe for 4 years... let's try to reel this in still all together and maybe start to look at all the servers as one big one? I could be dreaming but still the overall outcome would be greater than the small personal sacrifices imho.

Dunno, just having the Oligarchy back out with Trinity leaves too many ends unfinished. The Oracle would still be "dead", the war would still be raging and surely we'd want to do something about the Oligarchs regardless of whether they're in the simulation or not (they've already attacked EPN at the no-fly etc).

Besides, too many people would want to save Trinity to just ignore it and carry on with their lives.

Rare's outlines and conclusion are all too convienient of a set-up for a static setting to just ignore imo.

cloudwolf wrote:

Huh? If this is following chapter 14, the removal of the Oligarchs is already explained with both the Trinity kill code (killing any who were using the Trinity program to inhabit human bodies) and the reset of the Matrix following Trinity's merge with the source (which got rid of Oligarch override control, rendering the remainder unable to jack in).

What, you mean pretend all the stuff that happened between 12 and 14 happened and then start on 15?

...

That's stupid.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:

Huh? If this is following chapter 14, the removal of the Oligarchs is already explained with both the Trinity kill code (killing any who were using the Trinity program to inhabit human bodies) and the reset of the Matrix following Trinity's merge with the source (which got rid of Oligarch override control, rendering the remainder unable to jack in).

What, you mean pretend all the stuff that happened between 12 and 14 happened and then start on 15?

...

That's stupid.

I...  agree. 

Fen wrote:

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:

Huh? If this is following chapter 14, the removal of the Oligarchs is already explained with both the Trinity kill code (killing any who were using the Trinity program to inhabit human bodies) and the reset of the Matrix following Trinity's merge with the source (which got rid of Oligarch override control, rendering the remainder unable to jack in).

What, you mean pretend all the stuff that happened between 12 and 14 happened and then start on 15?

...

That's stupid.

I...  agree. 

:: Checks to see if the Matrix is about to crash::

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:

Huh? If this is following chapter 14, the removal of the Oligarchs is already explained with both the Trinity kill code (killing any who were using the Trinity program to inhabit human bodies) and the reset of the Matrix following Trinity's merge with the source (which got rid of Oligarch override control, rendering the remainder unable to jack in).

What, you mean pretend all the stuff that happened between 12 and 14 happened and then start on 15?

...

That's stupid.

Why not though? We can all agree the rest of the story (chs. 12-14) is never going to see the light of day, right? I mean even if another story Dev were to show up, he/she would probably not continue Rarebit's story (maybe this would be even more true if we TOLD them not to continue it, but I digress), because it's already been published. Kind of like trying to read the book after you've read the CliffsNotes.

I think many of us are of the opinion that Rarebit's departure was the result of downsizing expenses for a product at the end of its life-cycle. Maybe it was mutual; we'll likely never know. My bet is, though, that SOE is not going to hire another Dev of Rarebit's ilk. We may get another Dev, but it'll likely be someone who doesn't have the backing of Warner and/or the Wachowskis, and thus this replacement Dev will likely be relegated to game fixes and, at best, low-impact (brief) story character appearances.

So, we continue the story on our own terms. I think that's pretty much what Rarebit had in mind for us at the end of Chapter 14 anyway. As Cloud said, he wraps most of it up pretty neatly, as though he were planning this all along.

But, as I've said before, we need to continue it from a mutual, agreeable starting point.

xenin wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:

So it looks like theres 3 main suggestions popping up:

• Chapter 8, perpetual war, before the Oligarchs.
• Chapter 12.1, perpetual limbo with the current situation.
• Chapter 15, post-Rarebit's outlines.

Now the question is which one should "the devs" mark as "official", because lets be honest, we'll never agree among ourselves.

((Definately Chapter 15, post-Rarebit's outlines. His notes will needs a few tweaks but it is ok. As for afterwards, well I been thinking about that, but for obvious reasons this isn't concrete.))

Okay here is what I thought about for Chapter 15.1 Cinematic and story:

[stuff]

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

It's a great lead forward, but nut that I am, I still insist on at least some explanation of the removal of the Oligarchs, and in keeping with Ye Olde Matrixe tradition, you could put more mystery into your idea. I'm not bashing it or anything, just saying the "O hai its Morpheus" thing could be a lot more subtle or mysterious.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:

Huh? If this is following chapter 14, the removal of the Oligarchs is already explained with both the Trinity kill code (killing any who were using the Trinity program to inhabit human bodies) and the reset of the Matrix following Trinity's merge with the source (which got rid of Oligarch override control, rendering the remainder unable to jack in).

What, you mean pretend all the stuff that happened between 12 and 14 happened and then start on 15?

...

That's stupid.

O.o

Morpheus and to a much lesser extent the Oracle are key figures that should be in the gameworld if it is to encourage and stimulate new players to involve themselves in rp and storylines....its just marketting potential (and wow factor)  that should not be wasted imo.

Equally we come to the matrix and spend an inordinate amount of time 'jacked in', people party here, plan campaigns here, fight here, its a situation that really only rings true if a shaky truce is in place.

The backstory to how they arrive there can include all the events of MxO to date or it can seemlessly integrate with the end of revolutions, this is the status the gameworld needs to be set to if there is to be any hope at all of consistent future player developed rp. In the end Rp and story involvement should not just be relegated to a smaller and smaller crowd of elite rp'ers it needs to be accessible to players old and new, returnees and more.

In the absence of a future dev led story we should lobby Walrus for a one off statement/change that puts the matrix in a state that encourages players to be involved and become part of an online city trying to drag itself away from a pointless war and into a mutual future dealing with threats, terrorism and corruption along the way. That would leave us with somewhere to go, the alternative is a sad mis match of threads some resolved some denied, some misunderstood that leaves no one on the same page and worse the game itself is presented in a state that says one thing but does another.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

So, Psilody, just out of curiosity, how are you going to play it? In character, I mean. You going to ignore the last few chapters? Play as though Rare finished the story?

Just call it like you see it is all I'm asking.

How am I going to play it IC at all? That is to say, under what circumstances would i be called upon to have an IC response to story events that are not happening?

Even when we HAD a story, I was never one to stand around Tab W asking people "So, what ya think about them LV's?" If there was a LE going on, then it seemed pertinent what my IC stance on the current situation was, and I played from that. That stance was always based on psi's core character anyway.

I think my point is more, THERE IS NO MORE CONTINUING STORYYLINE, ERGO, I DON"T NEED AN IC RESPONSE. I'm not really worried about character continuity, psi's character can be what it its, without an official storyline. And theres not anybody playing this game that doesn't know whats (not) going on, so who's going to really see some "discrepancy".

Again, I don't believe for one minute that, as a community of players, even IF we agreed that, say, "the outline is canon, lets start at 15." that such agreement would actually lead to a continuing official story.

So yeah, again, it doesn't matter how I would play a response to the story, because there isn't a story to play at all. What's the point? Who am I going to RP with about an "official" story line that ended and no longer exists? Myself?

So, ya know, come up with yer idea, start a Player Event thread and say "hey, Our group of people have agreed on this, and we are going to play out a story based on it. participants welcome."

To me, that's what it means for the story to be in our hands. Not, "hey, lets all spend 6 months arguing and debating what did or didn't happen, where it's going to go, who's going to get it there... blah,blah..."

Not worth it. Just enjoy what's left and stop worrying about it.

psilody wrote:

How am I going to play it IC at all? That is to say, under what circumstances would i be called upon to have an IC response to story events that are not happening?

Even when we HAD a story, I was never one to stand around Tab W asking people "So, what ya think about them LV's?" If there was a LE going on, then it seemed pertinent what my IC stance on the current situation was, and I played from that. That stance was always based on psi's core character anyway.

I think my point is more, THERE IS NO MORE CONTINUING STORYYLINE, ERGO, I DON"T NEED AN IC RESPONSE. I'm not really worried about character continuity, psi's character can be what it its, without an official storyline.

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. No story = no need for story RP. Got it.

psilody wrote:

And theres not anybody playing this game that doesn't know whats (not) going on, so who's going to really see some "discrepancy".

Well, the idea is to set it up for new players so they can dive right in without having to read the entire saga on the forums.

psilody wrote:

Again, I don't believe for one minute that, as a community of players, even IF we agreed that, say, "the outline is canon, lets start at 15." that such agreement would actually lead to a continuing official story.

The purpose of this thread is not to continue the official story. I thought we could just find a "jumping off point", if you will, for everyone's personal RP.

psilody wrote:

So yeah, again, it doesn't matter how I would play a response to the story, because there isn't a story to play at all. What's the point? Who am I going to RP with about an "official" story line that ended and no longer exists? Myself?

I guess that's up to you. You pay for the game, play it how you want.

psilody wrote:

So, ya know, come up with yer idea, start a Player Event thread and say "hey, Our group of people have agreed on this, and we are going to play out a story based on it. participants welcome."

To me, that's what it means for the story to be in our hands. Not, "hey, lets all spend 6 months arguing and debating what did or didn't happen, where it's going to go, who's going to get it there... blah,blah..."

Well, that's the whole idea, as I illustrated a few lines up. But wouldn't it be nice, for veterans and newbies alike, if everyone kind of agreed about what has happened? I mean, this way, a new player could go from RP story to RP story without running into a situation where one person says "that Oligarchs are gone" while another says "nah, the Oligarchs were just here yesterday." I mean, I suppose if people want to RP against the grain, that's fine; they pay to play too. But, some of us feel like it's possible to reach an agreement on this issue.

psilody wrote:

Not worth it. Just enjoy what's left and stop worrying about it.

That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. But since we, also, pay to play, how about you just let us play the game how we want to? We're not requiring you, or anyone else, to agree with us. We're just saying "for those like-minded individuals, how do you want it to go?"

Fair enough?

ShiXinFeng wrote:

psilody wrote:

How am I going to play it IC at all? That is to say, under what circumstances would i be called upon to have an IC response to story events that are not happening?

Even when we HAD a story, I was never one to stand around Tab W asking people "So, what ya think about them LV's?" If there was a LE going on, then it seemed pertinent what my IC stance on the current situation was, and I played from that. That stance was always based on psi's core character anyway.

I think my point is more, THERE IS NO MORE CONTINUING STORYYLINE, ERGO, I DON"T NEED AN IC RESPONSE. I'm not really worried about character continuity, psi's character can be what it its, without an official storyline.

Ah, I see where you're coming from now. No story = no need for story RP. Got it

( ...)

psilody wrote:

So, ya know, come up with yer idea, start a Player Event thread and say "hey, Our group of people have agreed on this, and we are going to play out a story based on it. participants welcome."

To me, that's what it means for the story to be in our hands. Not, "hey, lets all spend 6 months arguing and debating what did or didn't happen, where it's going to go, who's going to get it there... blah,blah..."

Well, that's the whole idea, as I illustrated a few lines up. But wouldn't it be nice, for veterans and newbies alike, if everyone kind of agreed about what has happened? I mean, this way, a new player could go from RP story to RP story without running into a situation where one person says "that Oligarchs are gone" while another says "nah, the Oligarchs were just here yesterday." I mean, I suppose if people want to RP against the grain, that's fine; they pay to play too. But, some of us feel like it's possible to reach an agreement on this issue.

psilody wrote:

Not worth it. Just enjoy what's left and stop worrying about it.

That's your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it. But since we, also, pay to play, how about you just let us play the game how we want to? We're not requiring you, or anyone else, to agree with us. We're just saying "for those like-minded individuals, how do you want it to go?"

Fair enough?

yes, defnitely fair. I guess my primary concern still comes from the title of this thread  "Where does this leave us?"

I thought the point of thread was to try and draw a community concensus on where "we" all are.

I guess I'm trying to say that I think the effort to get the community to agree on such a thing is more likely to cause strife, than solve any significant problem.

So, I'm sorry if i misunderstood, but i took the meaning of this thread to be a discussion of where we all are, as players in this community, with the idea of reaching a concensus among basically all players. That is an entirely different objective than saying "Where are we individually, and who wants to group up and go a similar direction?".

I'm just fine with the latter, especially since thats the way its going to in fact be. I'm disturbed by the former, because I don't want to see this community torn apart by trying to achieve a concensus that isn't going to happen.

Rules of Improv applied to RP

The toughest part is agreeing. As a general rule, just RP with people you agree with. Or agree with the people you are RPing with.

Will this really be a problem? I assume most of us have a circle of people that we would RP with outside of events. And now that there are no more events, we still have our circle.

cloudwolf wrote:

O.o

S***, I f***ed up.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:

O.o

S***, I f***ed up.

Circumventing the obscenity filter? In my matricks?!

Perma-ban for you, squirrel!

ShiXinFeng mentioned this discussion in another thread. After re-reading it, thinking about it for a while and talking to him, he suggested that I post here my thoughts.

I can see that SXF held back discussion until others came in and commented first, which is something I do sometimes, too, to see where the discussion goes and then to re-route it back to where I wanted it to go. (If that's what he did.)

But what I got out of this thread was what I think is a solid time-point in which to pick up the storyline. Weather people like it or not, the Oligarchs are here. But 12.2 has not been implemented yet. I say yet because if a new dev were to come in, that is a likely starting point to pick up the story. All this considering a new dev might just go off in their own direction. In this case, it's not Rarebit that had the alternate ending, but us that make an alternate continuation.

All in all, I really think it's rather futile. If we can't agree where to begin, there is no way we'll all agree where to continue week after week. But I like the fact that members are at least trying to facilitate something for the future of this community.

NEW

Down to brass tax: What are you willing to sacrifice for the rest of the community to be on board with the future? I'm willing to accept the Oligarchs and even the Trinity crapola in order to have a cohesive future. I would like to see the future return to 3 or 5 orgs fighting for leverage inside the matrix, because that is most accessable to us. I am even willing to flag up lots more so that combat will not have to be a dev tool of NPCs.

Vesuveus wrote:

ShiXinFeng mentioned this discussion in another thread. After re-reading it, thinking about it for a while and talking to him, he suggested that I post here my thoughts.

I can see that SXF held back discussion until others came in and commented first, which is something I do sometimes, too, to see where the discussion goes and then to re-route it back to where I wanted it to go. (If that's what he did.)

But what I got out of this thread was what I think is a solid time-point in which to pick up the storyline. Weather people like it or not, the Oligarchs are here. But 12.2 has not been implemented yet. I say yet because if a new dev were to come in, that is a likely starting point to pick up the story. All this considering a new dev might just go off in their own direction. In this case, it's not Rarebit that had the alternate ending, but us that make an alternate continuation.

All in all, I really think it's rather futile. If we can't agree where to begin, there is no way we'll all agree where to continue week after week. But I like the fact that members are at least trying to facilitate something for the future of this community.

NEW

Down to brass tax: What are you willing to sacrifice for the rest of the community to be on board with the future? I'm willing to accept the Oligarchs and even the Trinity crapola in order to have a cohesive future. I would like to see the future return to 3 or 5 orgs fighting for leverage inside the matrix, because that is most accessable to us. I am even willing to flag up lots more so that combat will not have to be a dev tool of NPCs.

Thanks Ves.

When you talk about a "time-point", then, yeah, that's pretty much what we're trying to figure out. In order to get involved with more than one group that's doing some RP, without having to radically change the fundamentals of the history of the MxO story, we could decide that we are going to accept the story as it never happened, partly happened, or completely happened.

To me, it really doesn't matter which, so long as we can all agree.

To be perfectly honest I don't really want to deal with "The Main Storyline" right now, and I'd bet many others don't either.  Why not take a break for a little while?  At least until we know what the status of the game is Post-Anniversary Event.  If it looks like the servers are gonna shut down, then whats the point?  I think maybe little Animatrix-style side stories might be be a better fit at this point in time.  I don't see what the great rush is solve the monumental dispute of what the Mxo Canon is right this second.  Thinking about it gives me a headache in my eye.

Myself I'm rather enjoying getting caught up on many little things ingame I've overlooked over the past year or so.   There are some really cool things going on in Mega City, if only you stop for a moment and look around!

I understand how you feel. It's just sad that we can't have nice things.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

To be perfectly honest I don't really want to deal with "The Main Storyline" right now, and I'd bet many others don't either.  Why not take a break for a little while?  At least until we know what the status of the game is Post-Anniversary Event.  If it looks like the servers are gonna shut down, then whats the point?  I think maybe little Animatrix-style side stories might be be a better fit at this point in time.  I don't see what the great rush is solve the monumental dispute of what the Mxo Canon is right this second.  Thinking about it gives me a headache in my eye.

Myself I'm rather enjoying getting caught up on many little things ingame I've overlooked over the past year or so.   There are some really cool things going on in Mega City, if only you stop for a moment and look around!

What he said