Re: Level requirements for storyline missions

I want to express my one major grievance with the new business model for MxO; level requirements for the new storyline missions. I feel that it is entirely unfair for there to be a level requirement to do story-related missions. I have been playing MxO for 3 years now, and my character is only level 41. This is because I chose to take my time with it and there was no real reason to rush it. Now, I feel as though I'm basically left out of it because I'm not high enough to finish the story arcs, and by the time I get that high, the story will have been spoiled for me by hearing others talk about it. This has taken what started as much excitement about MxO's new direction and turned it into so much frustration I'd have cancelled my account already if not for my factionmates talking me out of it and convincing me to bring it up to you instead.

If you want to add new level 50 content, there are plenty of ways to do so. But please, don't make the storyline missions inaccessable to the rest of us - those who don't want to just grind to 50 - in such fashion. It's sucked a lot of the fun out for me. I used to be excited about the new crits. Now, I'm just miserable that I can't experience them like I used to.

Sincerely,

Darsana

Vixens, Zion, Syntax

That is indeed a bit of a problem. Hmmm... What if the level requirement were just taken out of it? Would that be fine in your opinion?

A thought that occured was if the missions that dealt with the storyline content were just there to simply convey the story to whoever wanted to go through them with a non-tradeable (Or heck, tradeable) item that would fit that organization; or it could just give a mission completion token that you need to turn in for whatever items with your collector.

Then, if the current trend is kept up where you have to farm NPCs for items that spawn during the missions to get items, they could make it to where the NPCs for the "Story missions" don't really drop the all/any of the items needed to turn into the collector, and instead make mission tickets that focus on just having the NPCs spawn on you to attack you that perhaps like special holiday/anniversary mission tickets could give you a consumable that's helpful if you choose to complete them. Those NPC-spawn missions would hold no new information related to the story that you couldn't get from the Story missions, but would be used by higher levels to farm their higher level gear.

What do you think about that?

eval wrote:

That is indeed a bit of a problem. Hmmm... What if the level requirement were just taken out of it? Would that be fine in your opinion?

A thought that occured was if the missions that dealt with the storyline content were just there to simply convey the story to whoever wanted to go through them with a non-tradeable (Or heck, tradeable) item that would fit that organization; or it could just give a mission completion token that you need to turn in for whatever items with your collector.

Then, if the current trend is kept up where you have to farm NPCs for items that spawn during the missions to get items, they could make it to where the NPCs for the "Story missions" don't really drop the all/any of the items needed to turn into the collector, and instead make mission tickets that focus on just having the NPCs spawn on you to attack you that perhaps like special holiday/anniversary mission tickets could give you a consumable that's helpful if you choose to complete them. Those NPC-spawn missions would hold no new information related to the story that you couldn't get from the Story missions, but would be used by higher levels to farm their higher level gear.

What do you think about that?

Taking the level requirement out would be the ideal solution, yes. If the REWARDS have a level requirement, that's okay. I can live with that. But I don't want to miss all of the story just because I'm not high enough level to continue. The story is the biggest reason why I play MxO..

We got so many awesome changes with the revamp that MxO just underwent, but this one issue has been so big for me, I've been one step away from cancelling my account for the better part of a week now.

That's my biggest problem with the update by far.

Solution:  Make them dual-purpose critical missions.  If you just want the storyline, then provided you have enough rep (60 sounds fine by me), and you're willing to risk missions instanced Downtown (if that's the case), then you should be able to achieve that goal.  In fact I like the idea of missions instanced downtown, it gives it an added element of danger that's very Matrixy.

If you want the gear, then yeah you can go for them via farming the secondary spawns.  Keep those reward items level based, 30/40/50 whatever.

I just think its pretty ridiculous that my lvl 27 Zionite alt, who has been running all of the Zionite crits exclusively for almost 4 years now, who has Beta Clothes and Neo's Insight and Zion Hardware Requisition (not to mention the Zion Stronghold Key which he has access to via well over 100 rep points); is all of the sudden completely and arbitrarily shut out from anything to do whatsoever with the MxO storyline.

Same goes for my lvl 28 Mech alt.  (I have 2 Mero 50's already on 2 servers....silly me I was going for the server trifecta instead of the org trifecta!   Who'd a thunk it).

To summarize:  Keep the rep requirements.  Instance them wherever you please...in Stratford Campus and Creston Heights if you want.   Keep the level requirements for gear obtained by farming secondary spawns.  No one loses anything at all by eliminating the level caps this way.

If you character meets the requirements and/or is willing to dodge higher level mobs, by all means they should have at it!

Villemar_MxO wrote:

That's my biggest problem with the update by far.

Solution:  Make them dual-purpose critical missions.  If you just want the storyline, then provided you have enough rep (60 sounds fine by me), and you're willing to risk missions instanced Downtown (if that's the case), then you should be able to achieve that goal.  In fact I like the idea of missions instanced downtown, it gives it an added element of danger that's very Matrixy.

If you want the gear, then yeah you can go for them via farming the secondary spawns.  Keep those reward items level based, 30/40/50 whatever.

I just think its pretty ridiculous that my lvl 27 Zionite alt, who has been running all of the Zionite crits exclusively for almost 4 years now, who has Beta Clothes and Neo's Insight and Zion Hardware Requisition (not to mention the Zion Stronghold Key which he has access to via well over 100 rep points); is all of the sudden completely and arbitrarily shut out from anything to do whatsoever with the MxO storyline.

Same goes for my lvl 28 Mech alt.  (I have 2 Mero 50's already on 2 servers....silly me I was going for the server trifecta instead of the org trifecta!   Who'd a thunk it).

To summarize:  Keep the rep requirements.  Instance them wherever you please...in Stratford Campus and Creston Heights if you want.   Keep the level requirements for gear obtained by farming secondary spawns.  No one loses anything at all by eliminating the level caps this way.

If you character meets the requirements and/or is willing to dodge higher level mobs, by all means they should have at it!

This would actually be the perfect solution to the connundrum. Bravo!

A good idea to be sure, and this is also one of my biggest issues with this update.  Though it's more for the massive harm done to new players attracted by MxO's story, I can certainly see the issue from the vet side as well.  As Villemar made quite obvious, this new way of doing things isn't punishing those who aren't loyal to that individual characters org, it's punishing purely based upon XP level.  We have, and should have, content that is level specific but the story shouldn't be in that category too.

I think eval brings up a good suggestion too though.  By completely removing the forced spawns from the new critical quests, and by only putting spawns in when they make sense, you make it so that every org's missions don't have to follow the same basic pattern.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't look forward to every single org's quests following the exact same "meet someone for a little story, leave the building and get attacked, talk to someone.  Talk to someone, get attacked outside the building, talk to someone" pattern.  In the old system, while the crits weren't always great or even all that different as a whole, you still didn't do the exact same thing in each org with only the text boxes being different.

Purely for the record; there are players who have characters affected/excluded the same way who aren't complaining about it. 

Cadsuane wrote:

Purely for the record; there are players who have characters affected/excluded the same way who aren't complaining about it. 

Maybe so, but I personally live for the crits. They're my MxO bread and butter. The story is what attracted me and keeps me shelling out $15 each month. Without that, I don't have much reason to keep playing. And I'm obviously not alone in this. Seeing as we're paying to play MxO, don't we, as consumers, deserve to get to enjoy what we pay for?

Cadsuane wrote:

Purely for the record; there are players who have characters affected/excluded the same way who aren't complaining about it.

Just because there are people not complaining about it doesn't mean this change isn't bad. No one seemed to mind before when crits were based off rep, so going back to that old system shouldn't ruffle that many feathers (If any at all). It is still an effort to get the 60 rep required to get all the missions, just not such a monumental effort as grinding to lvl 50.

Villemar's solution summed it up best though.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

That's my biggest problem with the update by far.

Solution:  Make them dual-purpose critical missions.  If you just want the storyline, then provided you have enough rep (60 sounds fine by me), and you're willing to risk missions instanced Downtown (if that's the case), then you should be able to achieve that goal.  In fact I like the idea of missions instanced downtown, it gives it an added element of danger that's very Matrixy.

If you want the gear, then yeah you can go for them via farming the secondary spawns.  Keep those reward items level based, 30/40/50 whatever.

I agree completely and think that's a very fair solution to the issue. I really hope Rarebit revises this in the next update, otherwise a lot of people are going to remain needlessly disenfranchised, and wind up leaving. I don't want to see that happen, especially not Dars, who's been with this game longer than I have.

/as

Villemar_MxO wrote:

That's my biggest problem with the update by far.

Solution: Make them dual-purpose critical missions. If you just want the storyline, then provided you have enough rep (60 sounds fine by me), and you're willing to risk missions instanced Downtown (if that's the case), then you should be able to achieve that goal. In fact I like the idea of missions instanced downtown, it gives it an added element of danger that's very Matrixy.

If you want the gear, then yeah you can go for them via farming the secondary spawns. Keep those reward items level based, 30/40/50 whatever.

I just think its pretty ridiculous that my lvl 27 Zionite alt, who has been running all of the Zionite crits exclusively for almost 4 years now, who has Beta Clothes and Neo's Insight and Zion Hardware Requisition (not to mention the Zion Stronghold Key which he has access to via well over 100 rep points); is all of the sudden completely and arbitrarily shut out from anything to do whatsoever with the MxO storyline.

Same goes for my lvl 28 Mech alt. (I have 2 Mero 50's already on 2 servers....silly me I was going for the server trifecta instead of the org trifecta! Who'd a thunk it).

To summarize: Keep the rep requirements. Instance them wherever you please...in Stratford Campus and Creston Heights if you want. Keep the level requirements for gear obtained by farming secondary spawns. No one loses anything at all by eliminating the level caps this way.

If you character meets the requirements and/or is willing to dodge higher level mobs, by all means they should have at it!

Best solution I've seen so far, and I hope to see it implemented...

I also agree, and this spells it out so well.  Lower level and newer player 'NEED' to be able to keep up with the story.  It's importnant enough to include everyone possible in my opinion.

Cadsuane wrote:

Purely for the record; there are players who have characters affected/excluded the same way who aren't complaining about it. 

I can only think of two, and both of them have no rational defense for arbitrary level caps other than a vehicle to mock and deride other players on DN1, for no reason other than schadenfreude.*

(*Cool word btw and one that almost never comes up in any conversation...But I think its very apt here!)

MatrixRefugee wrote:

Villemar_MxO wrote:

That's my biggest problem with the update by far.

Solution: Make them dual-purpose critical missions. If you just want the storyline, then provided you have enough rep (60 sounds fine by me), and you're willing to risk missions instanced Downtown (if that's the case), then you should be able to achieve that goal. In fact I like the idea of missions instanced downtown, it gives it an added element of danger that's very Matrixy.

If you want the gear, then yeah you can go for them via farming the secondary spawns. Keep those reward items level based, 30/40/50 whatever.

I just think its pretty ridiculous that my lvl 27 Zionite alt, who has been running all of the Zionite crits exclusively for almost 4 years now, who has Beta Clothes and Neo's Insight and Zion Hardware Requisition (not to mention the Zion Stronghold Key which he has access to via well over 100 rep points); is all of the sudden completely and arbitrarily shut out from anything to do whatsoever with the MxO storyline.

Same goes for my lvl 28 Mech alt. (I have 2 Mero 50's already on 2 servers....silly me I was going for the server trifecta instead of the org trifecta! Who'd a thunk it).

To summarize: Keep the rep requirements. Instance them wherever you please...in Stratford Campus and Creston Heights if you want. Keep the level requirements for gear obtained by farming secondary spawns. No one loses anything at all by eliminating the level caps this way.

If you character meets the requirements and/or is willing to dodge higher level mobs, by all means they should have at it!

Best solution I've seen so far, and I hope to see it implemented...

From your lips to Mr. R's ears!  And thanks to the others here who seem to like the idea.  With a good couple weeks to mull it over hopefully this solution is practical, dispassionate, and a win for everybody.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Cadsuane wrote:

Purely for the record; there are players who have characters affected/excluded the same way who aren't complaining about it. 

I can only think of two, and both of them have no rational defense for arbitrary level caps other than a vehicle to mock and deride other players on DN1, for no reason other than schadenfreude.*

(*Cool word btw and one that almost never comes up in any conversation...But I think its very apt here!)

There's a lot of schadenfreude on MxO. Especially at Mara C.

I view  Vill's as the best option for sure but if for some reason that can't be done with the gear or with it being a trader that you get your missions from (idk really any reason it wouldn't work).

Is you have the normal missions you have now, but along side them include the same mission without the spawns for the item. So it would be sort of a downgraded version, same story and everything just no chance of getting the higher gear because those NPC's wouldn't spawn in between missions. (this would limit them to not being required to kill in mission areas or just have it so they dont give a chance for the drop).

I say this because I believe the reason Rare implemented the level req. was so it wouldn't be so easy to farm the gear, without it you could farm all the items solo as a lowbie and either get the items way in advance or make a fortune selling them because it would simply be easier. (of course you can do this now but you need a higher level to start the mission).

So to sum it up its a small variation of Villimar's idea, except offer the same mission twice one with the option for the drop and one without for purely story purposes.

Remove the level requirement for the missions, but keep the reputation requirement imo.

According to the forum rules:

"Don't post topics addressed directly to a developer."

Posting an idea about an improvement and discussing it is ok, you just shouldn't address it directly to a dev.  (That should be done in a PM.)  The OP needs to change the wording and title on the original post, or this thread could get locked.

mxomod004 wrote:

According to the forum rules:

"Don't post topics addressed directly to a developer."

Posting an idea about an improvement and discussing it is ok, you just shouldn't address it directly to a dev.  (That should be done in a PM.)  The OP needs to change the wording and title on the original post, or this thread could get locked.

Done and done. No offense intended.

Zeac wrote:

I view  Vill's as the best option for sure but if for some reason that can't be done with the gear or with it being a trader that you get your missions from (idk really any reason it wouldn't work).

Is you have the normal missions you have now, but along side them include the same mission without the spawns for the item. So it would be sort of a downgraded version, same story and everything just no chance of getting the higher gear because those NPC's wouldn't spawn in between missions. (this would limit them to not being required to kill in mission areas or just have it so they dont give a chance for the drop).

I say this because I believe the reason Rare implemented the level req. was so it wouldn't be so easy to farm the gear, without it you could farm all the items solo as a lowbie and either get the items way in advance or make a fortune selling them because it would simply be easier. (of course you can do this now but you need a higher level to start the mission).

So to sum it up its a small variation of Villimar's idea, except offer the same mission twice one with the option for the drop and one without for purely story purposes.

I dont think you'd even need to do that.  Using 11.3 as an example, you could set it so that Accellerated Suits only drop Accellerated Pens for lvls 30 and up, and Wright Accellerated Exiles only drop Override Bits for lvls 40 and up.  Or, a variation on that, even if say you are lvl 25, the Accellerated Suit spawns lvl 30s and the Wright Accellerateds spawn at lvl 40.  If you just want the story, you'll definitely need to run or hyperjump away to the next location, which again, would be pretty cool IMO.

The idea is to divorce the farming requirement from the missions for those who just wanted to access the storyline.  But if you wanted the gear you would have to run those same missions but also be able to take on the secondary spawns, with the higher level requirements for dropped items (that you'd need for gear) left as they are.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Zeac wrote:

I view  Vill's as the best option for sure but if for some reason that can't be done with the gear or with it being a trader that you get your missions from (idk really any reason it wouldn't work).

Is you have the normal missions you have now, but along side them include the same mission without the spawns for the item. So it would be sort of a downgraded version, same story and everything just no chance of getting the higher gear because those NPC's wouldn't spawn in between missions. (this would limit them to not being required to kill in mission areas or just have it so they dont give a chance for the drop).

I say this because I believe the reason Rare implemented the level req. was so it wouldn't be so easy to farm the gear, without it you could farm all the items solo as a lowbie and either get the items way in advance or make a fortune selling them because it would simply be easier. (of course you can do this now but you need a higher level to start the mission).

So to sum it up its a small variation of Villimar's idea, except offer the same mission twice one with the option for the drop and one without for purely story purposes.

I dont think you'd even need to do that.  Using 11.3 as an example, you could set it so that Accellerated Suits only drop Accellerated Pens for lvls 30 and up, and Wright Accellerated Exiles only drop Override Bits for lvls 40 and up.  Or, a variation on that, even if say you are lvl 25, the Accellerated Suit spawns lvl 30s and the Wright Accellerateds spawn at lvl 40.  If you just want the story, you'll definitely need to run or hyperjump away to the next location, which again, would be pretty cool IMO.

The idea is to divorce the farming requirement from the missions for those who just wanted to access the storyline.  But if you wanted the gear you would have to run those same missions but also be able to take on the secondary spawns, with the higher level requirements for dropped items (that you'd need for gear) left as they are.

That sounds like the ideal approach.

Sounds like reasonable suggestions. In fact it sounds like a decent compromise to keep the vast majority of the player base happy. Keep the farmed items level requirements and scale the spawns to the appropriate level and have them drop farmable tokens for items at lvl's 30-40+ (which we can assume can happen as the inverse happens for Dernicks earpieces etc...). Keep in  mind that I think Rarebit wants these missions to be a bit of a challenge so the final NPC is, as far as we've seen about 5 levels higher, but I'm sure the game can spawn the NPC at the appropriate level.

The only issue so far is that in order to continue the missions you need a dropped item from one of the NPC's which can't happen if you're below 30 or below 40. This can be bypassed if you get a different drop (not something you can trade for items) from the last NPC in the mission, or do away with it completely and simply have the mission complete token as a requirement for the next mission... 

Personally i think its a disgrace that anyone should be deliberatly excluded from the main focus of the game.  Rare wants to have the story drive the game, which is fantastic and exactly how it should be.  So why oh why did he put any caps at all?  To a certain extent i can understand the rep cap.  I cannot do any of these missions because of that exact reason.  My rep is all over the place.  In all honesty, im really not interested in this aspect of the story pretty much because i think its rubbish.  That is beside the point.  If i wanted to take part in the story i would have to grind the rep first then go for it.

It seems like a bit of a contradiction of terms when you want to make storyline the main focus of the game then exclude people from it.  Sounds like some kind of compramise needs to be achieved otherwise it will soon drive more people away. 

Vinia wrote:

Sounds like reasonable suggestions. In fact it sounds like a decent compromise to keep the vast majority of the player base happy. Keep the farmed items level requirements and scale the spawns to the appropriate level and have them drop farmable tokens for items at lvl's 30-40+ (which we can assume can happen as the inverse happens for Dernicks earpieces etc...). Keep in  mind that I think Rarebit wants these missions to be a bit of a challenge so the final NPC is, as far as we've seen about 5 levels higher, but I'm sure the game can spawn the NPC at the appropriate level.

The only issue so far is that in order to continue the missions you need a dropped item from one of the NPC's which can't happen if you're below 30 or below 40. This can be bypassed if you get a different drop (not something you can trade for items) from the last NPC in the mission, or do away with it completely and simply have the mission complete token as a requirement for the next mission... 

Yeah I forgot to mention, in fact, I have tested this out and have seen both elements implemented....If you run the Valkyrie mission with a lvl 50 and a level 2, The Valkaries will spawn at around lvl 26 or so, however they will never drop an Andowhatever Fragment.

But, if you run 11.3.2 with a 50 and a 2, the guards and stuff will spawn at level 26 or so.  However, when you go outside, the Wright Exiles will spawn at level 40, and they have just the same drop rate of say a 51.   They have a level minimum which is just fine for our purposes.,  Either way works and has precedent ingame.

I only know of two reasons for the level cap. The first is the level of the NPCs in the area. However I feel that if a player wants to run the gauntlet of those NPC's, and lets face it you can HJ at lvl 10, I think they should be able to try (may even make the missions more challnging).

The second is encouragement to level up. I say this not from the view of powerlevelling to be the most effective in pvp but if we get more 'world bosses' like Wright, which rounds off that pile of missions, then generally the people going to beat that are lvl 50's or thereabouts. Obviously lower levels can witness the final fight but it's no substitute for fighting it yourself, thus the encouragement to level.

Vinia wrote:

I only know of two reasons for the level cap. The first is the level of the NPCs in the area. However I feel that if a player wants to run the gauntlet of those NPC's, and lets face it you can HJ at lvl 10, I think they should be able to try (may even make the missions more challnging).

The second is encouragement to level up. I say this not from the view of powerlevelling to be the most effective in pvp but if we get more 'world bosses' like Wright, which rounds off that pile of missions, then generally the people going to beat that are lvl 50's or thereabouts. Obviously lower levels can witness the final fight but it's no substitute for fighting it yourself, thus the encouragement to level.

True, but after level 50, what encouragement is there to level? If you're someone like me - that is to say someone who severely dislikes PvP and generally prefers missioning and roleplay (on the rare occasion it can be found) - there's no real rush to level up and we prefer to take our time. After level 50, you stop getting XP, so encouraging levelling only goes so far, and I'd prefer to not boost the level cap. The lowbies, and those of us who choose to take our time, are getting the crap end of the stick.

M45T3RM1ND wrote:

Vinia wrote:

I only know of two reasons for the level cap. The first is the level of the NPCs in the area. However I feel that if a player wants to run the gauntlet of those NPC's, and lets face it you can HJ at lvl 10, I think they should be able to try (may even make the missions more challnging).

The second is encouragement to level up. I say this not from the view of powerlevelling to be the most effective in pvp but if we get more 'world bosses' like Wright, which rounds off that pile of missions, then generally the people going to beat that are lvl 50's or thereabouts. Obviously lower levels can witness the final fight but it's no substitute for fighting it yourself, thus the encouragement to level.

True, but after level 50, what encouragement is there to level? If you're someone like me - that is to say someone who severely dislikes PvP and generally prefers missioning and roleplay (on the rare occasion it can be found) - there's no real rush to level up and we prefer to take our time. After level 50, you stop getting XP, so encouraging levelling only goes so far, and I'd prefer to not boost the level cap. The lowbies, and those of us who choose to take our time, are getting the crap end of the stick.

Im very much of the opinion that the game pretty much ends at 50 after a certain period of time.  Once you hit 50 there are only a certain amount of things you can do.  Unless you are into collecting / farming or PVP its the same old same day in day out.  If Rare is encouraging players to hit max level he needs to add some actual end game content.

Sure you can farm all those magic items but lets face it... they are nothing but a pure grind.  Anyway.. thats another point.

There is no encouragement to level up at 50 because you can't go past 50, so there is no need for encouragement there, simple as. Also I'm not advocating the level cap placed on missions and did not say it should be boosted. I was only stating the two reasons I could see for having the caps in place. In fact I've disagreed with the cap as soon as we found out there was one.

Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to, can't be arsed to get the rep or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem. Before the usual 'one day worth of missions and farming for the new items, then 6 weeks of nothing but one meeting and a party woohoo' starts, I still believe that LE's will occur, as only their regularity has been scrapped. I believe that allowing Rarebit to settle into the new way of doing things will bear  this out.

Vinia wrote:

Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem.

I disagree.  There should be more to this game than just a storyline.  Personally i lost interest in the story long ago when it became less matrixy to me.  Granted thats my issue with how i feel about it but that doesnt hide the fact that unless you want to collect items, old or new or pvp there is nothing to do in this game other than chat to folk, dance or whatever.  Granted i could always look for RP but seeing as that has apparently croaked it... well its pointless.  How many people do you see standing around hardlines... doing nothing?  I think that paints quite an appropriate picture.

Vinia wrote:

Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem.

I disagree.  There should be more to this game than just a storyline.  Personally i lost interest in the story long ago when it became less matrixy to me.  Granted thats my issue with how i feel about it but that doesnt hide the fact that unless you want to collect items, old or new or pvp there is nothing to do in this game other than chat to folk, dance or whatever.  Granted i could always look for RP but seeing as that has apparently croaked it... well its pointless.  How many people do you see standing around hardlines... doing nothing?  I think that paints quite an appropriate picture.

Vinia wrote:

There is no encouragement to level up at 50 because you can't go past 50, so there is no need for encouragement there, simple as. Also I'm not advocating the level cap placed on missions and did not say it should be boosted. I was only stating the two reasons I could see for having the caps in place. In fact I've disagreed with the cap as soon as we found out there was one.

Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to, can't be arsed to get the rep or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem. Before the usual 'one day worth of missions and farming for the new items, then 6 weeks of nothing but one meeting and a party woohoo' starts, I still believe that LE's will occur, as only their regularity has been scrapped. I believe that allowing Rarebit to settle into the new way of doing things will bear  this out.

I know, and I think we're in total agreement. I was just expanding on my side of the issue a bit further.

Criingey wrote:

Vinia wrote:

Also as long as the story continues, the game does not end at lvl 50. If you don't follow it at 50 because you don't want to or don't like the current story itself, thats your own problem.

I disagree.  There should be more to this game than just a storyline.  Personally i lost interest in the story long ago when it became less matrixy to me.  Granted thats my issue with how i feel about it but that doesnt hide the fact that unless you want to collect items, old or new or pvp there is nothing to do in this game other than chat to folk, dance or whatever.  Granted i could always look for RP but seeing as that has apparently croaked it... well its pointless.  How many people do you see standing around hardlines... doing nothing?  I think that paints quite an appropriate picture.

So Criinge, what would you like to see introduced into this game that was made a fair time ago and has a very limited Dev staff and a stroppy database? It's fair to say that the core gameplay aspects of MxO from the very start is the fighting, story and social interactions with a few extras like datamining and coding added in. What other game introduces different core gameplay aspects at the end of the story and when people get bored of other methods? What makes MxO different to other MMOs when you reach the highest levels?

In all honesty Vins im done with this.  There is absolutely no inspiration for me to play anymore and hasnt been for some time.  In my less than expert opinion this game is dead.  It wouldnt matter what was added.  It would only provide a tempory fix im sure.  Once the initial rush of the new content has passed then its back to the same old same.

There is only one thing that could save this game imo... more people playing.  That would change everything.

Woah, ladies. Let's not get so argumentative, okay? One thing that will absolutely NOT improve the quality of the game is calling it dead, though Criinge is right; the biggest fix we need is more players. But that requires that SOE get the word out. MxO could be the best MMO on the market if it got the recognition and publicity that many lesser MMOs got.

M45T3RM1ND wrote:

Woah, ladies. Let's not get so argumentative, okay? One thing that will absolutely NOT improve the quality of the game is calling it dead, though Criinge is right; the biggest fix we need is more players. But that requires that SOE get the word out. MxO could be the best MMO on the market if it got the recognition and publicity that many lesser MMOs got.

Oh dont missunderstand me here.  Im not arguing.. just stating my point of view and feelings on the issue.

Me and Vins are cool

Yeah, no intention of hostility here, Criinge and I are just very vocal!

It's a personal thing, everyone is different. I got bored with GW after completing the story there as everything was the same. Even with the expansion, play the story a few times, got bored uninstalled.

Here, I like the continuing story, that along with my friends and the genre etc.. is what keeps me here and keeps me playing past the 50 mark.

Greetings from the other end of the spectrum!

I have absolutely no issues with the level/rep requirements for the missions.  I like the idea and understand the reasoning.  However, I have no objection to changing it.  I think its paramount that the story be available to everyone but the rewards, not so much.  Perhaps the simplest solution would be to:

• Remove the level restrictions
• Keep the reputation requirements
• Scale the NPCs accordingly
• Set the loot tables to reward based on team level*
• Keep all reward items at their respective level

* If team level + 1 > NPC level, then no override bit.  If team level + 1 < NPC level, then chance for override bit (i.e. sleepwalker/kunoichi loot types)

In this last batch of missions, the NPCs were 51 with a couple 53 and 55 (depending on the org mission) so <INSERT COMPLEX MATHEMATICAL EQUATIONS/EXPLANATIONS> and you have it established in a manner that keeps higher level players from easily acquiring items that should be challenging to all players to receive.

Everyone can then still participate in the story but there's still an element of challenge to getting the rewards.

SIDENOTE:  3 years and only 41?!!  /tsktsk

Didn't we just have this conversation?

What do people have against getting together with other players to run a mission? That's the purpose behind this change; bringing the players together. Besides, it's not like you can defeat the mission boss (Wright) alone anyway.

No offense meant, but I'm not too broken up over those people who say they are leaving because of a level cap on new missions. If you can leave the game for that small a reason, you're probably not into it that much, anyway. 

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Didn't we just have this conversation?

What do people have against getting together with other players to run a mission? That's the purpose behind this change; bringing the players together. Besides, it's not like you can defeat the mission boss (Wright) alone anyway.

No offense meant, but I'm not too broken up over those people who say they are leaving because of a level cap on new missions. If you can leave the game for that small a reason, you're probably not into it that much, anyway. 

Or you're into it enough to think that your monthly sub matters to MxO's bottom line.

Yeah what happened to the other thread?

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Didn't we just have this conversation?

What do people have against getting together with other players to run a mission? That's the purpose behind this change; bringing the players together. Besides, it's not like you can defeat the mission boss (Wright) alone anyway.

No offense meant, but I'm not too broken up over those people who say they are leaving because of a level cap on new missions. If you can leave the game for that small a reason, you're probably not into it that much, anyway. 

The last conversation devolved into a dev bash unfortunately so Virrago locked it.  But, I think that's a false premise you bring up, "bringing the players together."  One, its not like we have the subscriber base of WoW.  Secondly, and more importantly, there already is plenty of teamwork required content already.  Try and solo Wright (btw not the mission boss but the top secondary boss required to aquire the top gear, which is exactly as it should be).  Or try and solo a Grandmaster token or a Kunoichi doll.  Those things are already in place.  Again, exactly as it should be.

I think you're conflating group farm requirements with simple storyline access requirements.   Arguments were made in the other thread, like " find another org player to tag along with" or "just read DN1, noob!"  And the answer to that is, you lose the personal experience of experiencing the ongoing storyline first hand.  Which may not mean much to some but definitely means a lot to many of us.  Especially since many of us are here precisely because this is supposedly a dynamic storyline-based game, which makes it so unique.

The least viable argument in that other thread is, "lol freeloading nub, ur too lazy to lvl" which is not an argument, just an ad hominum...in fact its very condescending.  It would probably be valid in a massively multiplayer game.  We don't have that luxury unfortunately.

And lastly no one is losing anything by maintaining rep requirements, instancing them in high level areas, and maintaining level requirements in order to farm the gear from the secondary spawns.  At least I can't think of one.  It just seems arbitrary and counterproductive.

villemar = freeloader

Vinia wrote:

I only know of two reasons for the level cap. The first is the level of the NPCs in the area. However I feel that if a player wants to run the gauntlet of those NPC's, and lets face it you can HJ at lvl 10, I think they should be able to try (may even make the missions more challnging).

The second is encouragement to level up. I say this not from the view of powerlevelling to be the most effective in pvp but if we get more 'world bosses' like Wright, which rounds off that pile of missions, then generally the people going to beat that are lvl 50's or thereabouts. Obviously lower levels can witness the final fight but it's no substitute for fighting it yourself, thus the encouragement to level.

Run the guantlet!  Another apt phrase.  Heh I even liked those few critical missions where you have to flee a lvl 255 agent.  It does make it exciting and mixes it up a bit.  If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen

On your second point, here is where I think we're getting very mixed signals.  On one level, the push is there to powergrind, with no access to current storyline before lvl 30.   And even when you get to lvl 30 you still only get access to 1/3rd of the current storyline. And "go run archive missions, kthxbai" is not really valid. 

This move would seem to indicate to me that any pretense of trying to get new players into MxO is totally gone.  But secondary to that, and where it affects us regular players, is the "stop and smell the roses" effect.  for example I got Villemar to 50 moderately quickly on Vector after launch.  But, after that, I wanted to more fully access content that I may have missed during my main's rush to 50.  I spent time farming constructs, running neighborhood missions, visiting uinderground exile strongholds (whatever you call them...lol I'm drawing a blank), etc.  Since I had no idea that eventually you'd need the org trifecta, I kept this alt in my same org.    It worked out quite well, in fact my alt hit 35 just as th new One Zero content was added, so that was perfect!  So I had that going on and went for the server trifecta on top of that over the years to better access my org's live events across the three servers, etc., which has become moot now.

On the other hand, it does seem like focus is being also drawn to lowbie content, with the addition of the Chessman mission etc.  In fact I think the best part of the update was not only the addition of the initial neighborhood content but also the gang RSI drops (since it gives you reason to get re-aquainted with the neighborhood gangs, especially those that don't drop acess keys so you'd previously have no reason to seek them out).  We're getting into immersion here, the "stop and smell the roses" thing that I always enjoy and appreciate.  So, is the plan just powergrind to 50?  Or immerse and take your time?  The only way the latter would work while maintaining critical mission lvl requirements is to quite literally have a Uriah/Tabor setup in every single neighborhood up to and including Downtown.  That would be pretty cool but it doesn't seem very practical!

Fatmop wrote:

villemar = freeloader

Lol wheres my Pink Gi and my patchers gear?  Gimme!  Also, farm me 1,000,000 robot parts from 01 for each non-50 character.  And teach me sploitz!  I want a free ride! 

Villemar_MxO wrote:

The last conversation devolved into a dev bash unfortunately so Virrago locked it.  But, I think that's a false premise you bring up, "bringing the players together."  One, its not like we have the subscriber base of WoW.  Secondly, and more importantly, there already is plenty of teamwork required content already.  Try and solo Wright (btw not the mission boss but the top secondary boss required to aquire the top gear, which is exactly as it should be).  Or try and solo a Grandmaster token or a Kunoichi doll.  Those things are already in place.  Again, exactly as it should be.

I think you're conflating group farm requirements with simple storyline access requirements.   Arguments were made in the other thread, like " find another org player to tag along with" or "just read DN1, noob!"  And the answer to that is, you lose the personal experience of experiencing the ongoing storyline first hand.  Which may not mean much to some but definitely means a lot to many of us.  Especially since many of us are here precisely because this is supposedly a dynamic storyline-based game, which makes it so unique.

The least viable argument in that other thread is, "lol freeloading nub, ur too lazy to lvl" which is not an argument, just an ad hominum...in fact its very condescending.  It would probably be valid in a massively multiplayer game.  We don't have that luxury unfortunately.

And lastly no one is losing anything by maintaining rep requirements, instancing them in high level areas, and maintaining level requirements in order to farm the gear from the secondary spawns.  At least I can't think of one.  It just seems arbitrary and counterproductive.

Okay, stop with the pseudo-intellectual argument classifications. We aren't in debate class, here, and you don't have to be so *censored* about everyone's arguments. This kind of oblique insulting is what causes threads to decend into flaming. It's just a conversation.

The new mission-quests are already a compromise between solo and party playability. They don't need to be changed due to a small, albeit outspoken, group of players who only want to solo everything.

Plus, are you saying the Wright boss has nothing to do with 11.3 mission-quest, other than to provide a loot-drop for in-game items? 'Cause I was pretty sure that she was placed there in conjunction with the mission.

Finally, I guess I am arguing against this for two reasons: one being the fact that so many things about this game have been changed over the years due to a small, vocal minority, and the second being that for four years, this game has been nothing but missions that are soloable. Even though every single movie showed "crews" of people working together, for years the only content in this game that wasn't soloable was the upper levels of the Pandora's Box quest. In my opinion, this is the latest in a series of recent changes that attempt to bring the game back to some semblance of the movie experience.

Besides, this is far from the first game to make story content available to only high-level players.

ADD: Man, I am really tired of the G-rated forums.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Villemar_MxO wrote:

The last conversation devolved into a dev bash unfortunately so Virrago locked it.  But, I think that's a false premise you bring up, "bringing the players together."  One, its not like we have the subscriber base of WoW.  Secondly, and more importantly, there already is plenty of teamwork required content already.  Try and solo Wright (btw not the mission boss but the top secondary boss required to aquire the top gear, which is exactly as it should be).  Or try and solo a Grandmaster token or a Kunoichi doll.  Those things are already in place.  Again, exactly as it should be.

I think you're conflating group farm requirements with simple storyline access requirements.   Arguments were made in the other thread, like " find another org player to tag along with" or "just read DN1, noob!"  And the answer to that is, you lose the personal experience of experiencing the ongoing storyline first hand.  Which may not mean much to some but definitely means a lot to many of us.  Especially since many of us are here precisely because this is supposedly a dynamic storyline-based game, which makes it so unique.

The least viable argument in that other thread is, "lol freeloading nub, ur too lazy to lvl" which is not an argument, just an ad hominum...in fact its very condescending.  It would probably be valid in a massively multiplayer game.  We don't have that luxury unfortunately.

And lastly no one is losing anything by maintaining rep requirements, instancing them in high level areas, and maintaining level requirements in order to farm the gear from the secondary spawns.  At least I can't think of one.  It just seems arbitrary and counterproductive.

Okay, stop with the pseudo-intellectual argument classifications. We aren't in debate class, here, and you don't have to be so *censored* about everyone's arguments. This kind of oblique insulting is what causes threads to decend into flaming. It's just a conversation.

The new mission-quests are already a compromise between solo and party playability. They don't need to be changed due to a small, albeit outspoken, group of players who only want to solo everything.

Plus, are you saying the Wright boss has nothing to do with 11.3 mission-quest, other than to provide a loot-drop for in-game items? 'Cause I was pretty sure that she was placed there in conjunction with the mission.

Finally, I guess I am arguing against this for two reasons: one being the fact that so many things about this game have been changed over the years due to a small, vocal minority, and the second being that for four years, this game has been nothing but missions that are soloable. Even though every single movie showed "crews" of people working together, for years the only content in this game that wasn't soloable was the upper levels of the Pandora's Box quest. In my opinion, this is the latest in a series of recent changes that attempt to bring the game back to some semblance of the movie experience.

Besides, this is far from the first game to make story content available to only high-level players.

ADD: Man, I am really tired of the G-rated forums.

All I am saying is, if you made the slight modification, who exactly does it hurt?  What's the specific argument against it?

And, in general, with any other generic MMO* you'd be 100% right and 0% wrong.  I still say this game has a unique appeal.  I cant speak for others but that's the reason I've been here all this time.  Maybe everyone wants this game to just be WoW but set in a modern setting and with 0.00000001% of their player base, I don't think that's the case, but I'll let others judge that.

And again, no one wants to solo anything, we just want to access the current storyline provided we put the work in and got our rep in with those orgs in the first place.  Not to mention being willing to brave wherever the missions take us, even if it is in Stratford Campus, Creston or wherever.

(*Highlight on Massively)

Villemar_MxO wrote:

And again, no one wants to solo anything, we just want to access the current storyline

This is the bulk of your argument against the new system, that you are being denied the ability to access the story content on your own terms.

My argument is that you are not being denied anything, you just have to do it a bit differently than you're used to.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Villemar_MxO wrote:

And again, no one wants to solo anything, we just want to access the current storyline

This is the bulk of your argument against the new system, that you are being denied the ability to access the story content on your own terms.

My argument is that you are not being denied anything, you just have to do it a bit differently than you're used to.

In my humble opinion it is completely arbirary, needlessly punitive, thematically nonsensical, and pointlessly restrictive (especially for new players).  Not to mention I generally don't appeciate mindless busywork masquerading as new content.

That being said, I am chipping away on those alts.  Since the last thread I've brought the two from 25/25 to 27/28.  BUT I had been chipping away at those before the last update regardless...I'll get there eventually, but even when I do I'll feel the exact same way.  Its the principle.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Didn't we just have this conversation?

What do people have against getting together with other players to run a mission? That's the purpose behind this change; bringing the players together. Besides, it's not like you can defeat the mission boss (Wright) alone anyway.

No offense meant, but I'm not too broken up over those people who say they are leaving because of a level cap on new missions. If you can leave the game for that small a reason, you're probably not into it that much, anyway. 

With my work schedule, I'm on, I'm usually on REALLY late at night when nobody else is even online, so soloing is pretty much par for the course for me. But it's not even about "wanting" to solo, as you put it. It's about not wanting to have to powerlevel my character and turn a leisure activity into a massive chore.

I agree with the OP's opinion. Everyone should be able to enjoy the storyline. Having to powerlevel to be able to participate takes away part of the fun.

Garu wrote:

Greetings from the other end of the spectrum!

I have absolutely no issues with the level/rep requirements for the missions.  I like the idea and understand the reasoning.  However, I have no objection to changing it.  I think its paramount that the story be available to everyone but the rewards, not so much.  Perhaps the simplest solution would be to:

• Remove the level restrictions
• Keep the reputation requirements
• Scale the NPCs accordingly
• Set the loot tables to reward based on team level*
• Keep all reward items at their respective level

* If team level + 1 > NPC level, then no override bit.  If team level + 1 < NPC level, then chance for override bit (i.e. sleepwalker/kunoichi loot types)

In this last batch of missions, the NPCs were 51 with a couple 53 and 55 (depending on the org mission) so and you have it established in a manner that keeps higher level players from easily acquiring items that should be challenging to all players to receive.

Everyone can then still participate in the story but there's still an element of challenge to getting the rewards.

SIDENOTE:  3 years and only 41?!!  /tsktsk

Ok try 3 years and only level 33. (I guess that's 333 which means I'm half of the beast ).

I'm pretty my as high as can be with my Rep in my faction but it does mean that with the new system, I've gone from 4 critical missions a month to 1. I know that means I'll get critisim from some quarters saying to get on and grind, but when you don't get as much time as others, grinding is not really an option.

While I do understand that there has to be new content for the level 50's to keep everybody happy, not all of us long time players are there yet.

It does beg an interesting question, what's the proportion of level 50's to people who haven't got there yet? I suspect we're a bit top heavy.

Cheers