Inner Strength Wars

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/25/2008 05:00:33

Better late than never I guess....

lately I've been taking a look at some IL abilities between operatives and tbh some of these could use a bit of revision.

In my honest opinion, I think it's ridiculous for an MA to have the most IS slurping abilities when this is basically an IL-only load. Any MA who fights Duelists and MKTs knows exactly how it feels to get hit with 5 DPEs or Leg Sweeps, when ur IS is dam.n near done after 4 or 5 special moves.
Well....let's take a closer look at the IS cost of some abilities as to why this is possible:

Leg Sweep: 12 (!!?)
Deadly Throw: 18 (!!?)
Throat Cutting Throw: 15 (!!?)
Paralyzing Throw: 30
Pistol Aerial: 20
Dual Pistol Execution: 35

Sure, DPE and Paralyzing throw seem like reasonable IS guzzlers, but keep in mind that MA moves of the same level cost around 40-45 (Wrist Throw: 65, what's that about?) and don't render powerless for eternity or debuff your acc by 100 SMILEY

MA moves start at 25, and most used are 30/35....I don't even want to get into the Aikido moves, I guess these are really really heavy on our muscles....
And for Overhand Smash to be a level 5 ability with an IS Cost of 20 is a bit overdone, don't ya think?

In my opinion MA moves are fine in IS cost, with some exceptions (the 60s have to go, though dude...) but other trees have been spoiled far too long!!

Just food for thought...

The_Bruceter · 08/25/2008 05:41:17

lol holy crap, didn't relise thats what the IS costs of mkt & dual pistols are. Thats bloody crazy lol Every MA move is 30 IS +

Only way i can counteract the IS is block like every 2nd or 3rd round but by then u normally have 1 or 2+ people attackin you outside interlock. People say MA is overpowered, my butt it is

Cadsuane · 08/25/2008 06:22:38

It might help your argument if you rewrote it so that it didn't sound quite so much like you were crying about being beaten by other trees. I'm not saying you don't have a point, but that you could present it better.

The_Bruceter · 08/25/2008 06:43:56

To me it doesn't seem as though he's 'cryin' about bein beaten (and tbh i don't think many would beat him.) He is just statin that MA has high IS consumption where as other trees have moves that are 15 - 20 IS decent moves!!!

Aikido

Maki - 30 IS

Punch Reversal - 40 IS

Tomo - 45 IS

Ki Burst - 60 IS

Serne Calm - 50 IS

Iron Body - 50 IS

Get the picture?

Bayamos · 08/25/2008 06:46:54

This has kind of been discussed a thousand times. Just saying.

Anyways, for one, MAs have free fire attacks that do damage, whereas MKT does not. A MKT relies only upon his/her special attacks to do damage in Interlock. This is consistent with MXO's combat system: Just look at Ballista; that too is dependent on special moves for all the damage, so those attacks have a significantly decreased IS cost. It wouldn't make any sense to allow MAs to free fire kick for damage without using IS, and then have MA and MKT specials both on the same level... the MKT would run out of IS and not be able to do any more damage, while the MA could run out of IS and still be able to dish some out.

Except for a Find Weakness buffed Leg Sweep, none of MKT's moves do that great damage anyway, nothing like a good MA special. MA specials take more IS, yes, but they also do more damage. Whoa.

End of the day, a MKT can't dish out damage that quickly in IL, so perhaps you should be trying to conserve your IS a bit more? (2-3 special combos, then block for regen works well). With Serene Calm and Desperation, MAs can take on pretty much anything, so I don't know what you're really complaining about.

SaintDaniel · 08/25/2008 07:25:49

lower rifleman/sniper ability is plzzzzzz(jp jp jp)

The_Bruceter · 08/25/2008 07:43:03

I'v bn tinkerin about with sniper/rifleman and tbh it actually seems ok. U can take out someone and still be able to hyperjump away to a safe location to get IS back. After a fight as MA, u'r buggered. No jumpin and when you get interlocked u'r pretty much confined to block.

exsuscito · 08/25/2008 07:56:58

The IS for Sniper/Riflemen is fine, Saint just needs it lower because it takes him a lot longer to kill anyone.

He does keep pluckin' away though, bless him.

ViralMarauder · 08/25/2008 08:07:28

If anything does change, let it NOT be the patcher stuff... Patcher hybrids are starting to get annoying and short of letting loose with everything I have as an attack hacker, they are anooying to try and break down.

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/25/2008 08:14:29

thnx bruce, thnx bay

Well, imo an MA free fire is just a "regular" attack and not a very impressive one if you compare it to a Stagger Throw or the fact that MKTs (and gunners) have ranged and IL abilities with pretty decent damage.

"End of the day, a MKT can't dish out damage that quickly in IL, so perhaps you should be trying to conserve your IS a bit more? (2-3 special combos, then block for regen works well). With Serene Calm and Desperation, MAs can take on pretty much anything, so I don't know what you're really complaining about."

I'm pretty happy with my strategy now and I'm definitely not a 'spammer', I'm just interested what other's opinions are. You know I'm not complaining, Bay. Come one, you love me.

Pylat · 08/25/2008 09:59:21

Just a few things to clear up. Ballista has Low IS attacks, but they also have terrible terrible accuracy in interlock. MKT has low IS cost attacks, but they have the best accuracy in the game. And sure their damage may not be up to par with an MA, and they offset this with superior accuracy and lower IS costs. But MKT is also vastly more powerful out of interlock than an MA. Sure the MA can try using normal attacks, good luck with that vs a Gunman or MKT. Out of interlock the MKT and Gunmen can easily use slowing or rooting attacks to keep you away from them and in interlock they can easily outroll your defense against the low IS cost special attacks they will inevitably use against you.

So you may argue that the overall effect of an MKT or Gunman in interlock is less damage but more low damage attacks compared to an MA, making them on "level ground" in interlock. But the fact that MA is also the weakest class out of interlock means it really should be completely dominant in interlock, and the only thing that really sets MA's apart from MKT's or Gunmen in that regard is double state specials.

9mmfu · 08/25/2008 11:41:20

I have said this before but as we get new players and the memory fades I guess I will cover it again.

All abilities are made up of a weighting system that when all the ability's parts are taking into account tells us what level that ability is.

So you want to reduce the IS cost of a paticular ability, then ask yourself what you want to give up to have it, less dps/hps, lower secondary effect chance, longer reuse timer?

You dont get a benefit without a trade off that is how the system is designed.

privaronT · 08/25/2008 11:52:01

9mmfu wrote:

I have said this before but as we get new players and the memory fades I guess I will cover it again.
All abilities are made up of a weighting system that when all the ability's parts are taking into account tells us what level that ability is.
So you want to reduce the IS cost of a paticular ability, then ask yourself what you want to give up to have it, less dps/hps, lower secondary effect chance, longer reuse timer?
You dont get a benefit without a trade off that is how the system is designed.

Make Imp hacking give interlock immunity like in beta if you had high evade.

Make it cost 10% more IS.

Make me a perpetual pony mount that does area hacks for three thousand damage if hit that spans across the entire district and automaticly loots all my mobs. But also make the pony have advertising on it.

Make it so I can have my E cake and eat it to.

Ballak · 08/25/2008 12:02:31

Pylat wrote:

Just a few things to clear up. Ballista has Low IS attacks, but they also have terrible terrible accuracy in interlock. MKT has low IS cost attacks, but they have the best accuracy in the game. And sure their damage may not be up to par with an MA, and they offset this with superior accuracy and lower IS costs. But MKT is also vastly more powerful out of interlock than an MA. Sure the MA can try using normal attacks, good luck with that vs a Gunman or MKT. Out of interlock the MKT and Gunmen can easily use slowing or rooting attacks to keep you away from them and in interlock they can easily outroll your defense against the low IS cost special attacks they will inevitably use against you.

So you may argue that the overall effect of an MKT or Gunman in interlock is less damage but more low damage attacks compared to an MA, making them on "level ground" in interlock. But the fact that MA is also the weakest class out of interlock means it really should be completely dominant in interlock, and the only thing that really sets MA's apart from MKT's or Gunmen in that regard is double state specials.

Uh, I guess you've never heard of Upgrade Attacks.

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/25/2008 12:11:20

9mmfu wrote:

I have said this before but as we get new players and the memory fades I guess I will cover it again.
All abilities are made up of a weighting system that when all the ability's parts are taking into account tells us what level that ability is.
So you want to reduce the IS cost of a paticular ability, then ask yourself what you want to give up to have it, less dps/hps, lower secondary effect chance, longer reuse timer?
You dont get a benefit without a trade off that is how the system is designed.

Well, I'm not a new player....I just don't surf the forums that much.
I don't know how to reduce the IS cost of a "particular ability"...it is what it is (sure, Opaque Shades help me out). And your kinda missing the point here, all the examples you're giving have nothing to do with absolute cost of the average MA ability.

Pylat · 08/25/2008 12:22:24

Ballak wrote:

Uh, I guess you've never heard of Upgrade Attacks.

Cause those 20 seconds out of every 90 totally make hacker the pwn in IL Amirite? It only puts a giant beacon above your head that screams "Stun Me".

*Upgrade attacks goes off*
*Other player changes to block, Twiddles Thumbs*
*20 seconds later, other player returns to attack spam*

Skull101 · 08/25/2008 15:24:59

>.< I cannot believe you are even talking about IS Costs for abilities... MAs are powerhouses in MxO, as with every tree you have powerful abilities, but MKT only has a few, Guns have a few, coder has none, hacker has alot and MA, pretty much every ability in interlock done by an MA to one of the other trees, if done right, will hurt them badly. If you really look at the Attributes you will see that the reason for MKTs being so powerful is Reason. Add more Reason to your MA stats and you will cost less IS each ability. It's all a matter of how well you know the game, and how well you use what you know to pwn others.

As a MA, Gunners, hackers, MKTs, all get owned in interlock, I can take on a few people in a row if they are slacking, MA is pwnage, so don't hate on it because of the Costs of IS it takes to use abilities, stop spamming abilities and you might have enough to kill more then one person, or one person if you are lucky and a noob kthx.

Every tree has it's weakness, every tree has it's strenght, those that understand every trees weakness and strength, those are the true IS Warriors. =P

Skull101 · 08/25/2008 15:26:47

>.< Double post ftl, Sorry.

SampleNow · 08/25/2008 17:15:29

All i ask is for powershot. please................

SampleNow · 08/25/2008 17:16:21

and Decoy..... that is all...

Cadsuane · 08/25/2008 18:26:28

Pylat wrote:

Ballak wrote:
Uh, I guess you've never heard of Upgrade Attacks.
Cause those 20 seconds out of every 90 totally make hacker the pwn in IL Amirite?

Yes.

WoKeN · 08/25/2008 20:55:55

The ma specials all do more damage than the other classes, the specials is costs, for the most part scale to dps.

MA's are not that bad against those classes in a controlled 1v1,

However in mass pvp MA's are not worth playing unless you have people to back you up..you have no roots,no real damage outside of interlock,and are essentially a sitting duck.

So in the end MA= good for dueling,good for tanking for a good sized team,and horrible for anything else.

Bayamos · 08/25/2008 21:01:14

Skull101 wrote:

Add more Reason to your MA stats and you will cost less IS each ability. It's all a matter of how well you know the game, and how well you use what you know to pwn others.

The first sentence is incorrect. IS cost modifier BONUS % will only affect things like the Efficiency upgrade on your buffer.

Zeac · 08/25/2008 21:43:11

My only real complaint would have to be to adjust moves like wrist throw. not fully sure on what should be done to it other than something should be taken away to decrease the IS cost especially since its rather inaccurate. I mean no one uses it other than the ocasional NPC and those looking for a cool animation. of course I've seem to forgotten what excactly its effects are if its stun or powerless but anywho its not used much.

that and in the aikido tree there are 3 moves that require off balance which makes only tomo really useful since its the strongest. why not make say counter throw a dazed requirement or aerial another like it is with kungfu ( wooden dummy vs pistons) or with karate (ki charged vs machine gun kick)

and lastly give ki charged attack some sort of effect like spinning ki summon does instead of the i think 200 damage (guess) or so it does sinc ethey cost the same IS and the small radius area damage isn't worth it all that much.

wow this turned out to be longer than planned.

Pylat · 08/25/2008 21:58:14

Cadsuane wrote:

Pylat wrote:
Ballak wrote:
Uh, I guess you've never heard of Upgrade Attacks.
Cause those 20 seconds out of every 90 totally make hacker the pwn in IL Amirite?
Yes.

You're doing it again Cadsuane, posting without proof. Please back up your statements.

A short list on how to easily counter Upgrade Attacks with each different class.

MA: Use Punch Reversal Catch Slam the moment it UA is used and then slam them hard, if that fails change to block and watch them miss repeatedly against your maxed out defense.
Gunman: Use Pistol Barrage the moment UA is used, if you get the powerless they can say goodbye to half of UA while you spam moves on them, change to block again and watch them miss repeatedly.
MKT: Use canny strike to leave interlock with them, it has a +100 bonus to accuracy so is very likely to outroll UA. Then just root them and run back 21m to get out of range of all their attacks, failing that you can just spam moves back at them, with your high accuracy you can outroll about half of a hackers moves anyway.
Hacker: If you have Stun 1.0 loaded use that the moment UA is used. Then spam moves at them as usual, when the stun wears off change to block.

And thus it has been proven that UA does not really make a hacker any good in interlock. It's extrememly obvious when it is used so it's very easy to counter.

Ballak · 08/25/2008 22:09:01

Pylat wrote:

Cadsuane wrote:
Pylat wrote:
Ballak wrote:
Uh, I guess you've never heard of Upgrade Attacks.
Cause those 20 seconds out of every 90 totally make hacker the pwn in IL Amirite?
Yes.
You're doing it again Cadsuane, posting without proof. Please back up your statements.

Cadsuane, how could you be so silly.

nubious81 · 08/25/2008 22:13:18

i do have to say for any MKTs and is regen ive started using the SSR SHades and Sakura along with Seraphams and my is regain is pretty good those three items work wonders.

Gerik · 08/25/2008 22:14:29

Bayamos wrote:

Skull101 wrote:
Add more Reason to your MA stats and you will cost less IS each ability. It's all a matter of how well you know the game, and how well you use what you know to pwn others.
The first sentence is incorrect. IS cost modifier BONUS % will only affect things like the Efficiency upgrade on your buffer.

I lol'd, sorry to interrupt.

Zeac · 08/25/2008 22:16:04

nubious81 wrote:

i do have to say for any MKTs and is regen ive started using the SSR SHades and Sakura along with Seraphams
and my is regain is pretty good those three items work wonders.

ya those are pretty much my standard with any tree sometimes interchanging SSR with widows moor shades
unless of course I'm sniping or something but thats another story.

GoDGiVeR · 08/25/2008 22:37:38

Bayamos wrote:

Skull101 wrote:
Add more Reason to your MA stats and you will cost less IS each ability. It's all a matter of how well you know the game, and how well you use what you know to pwn others.
The first sentence is incorrect. IS cost modifier BONUS % will only affect things like the Efficiency upgrade on your buffer.

So far to "How well you know the game".

If you knew the game very well you'd think more about stuff like "why does the MKT title give 10 pts more accuracy (after applying) than any non-spy title?" or "why is the IS cost from heals messed up?" or "why does Leg Sweeps D.P.S. (and obviously the time it uses to collet damage) not match up with the damage it actually does?".

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/26/2008 02:59:29

Skull101 wrote:

>.< I cannot believe you are even talking about IS Costs for abilities... MAs are powerhouses in MxO, as with every tree you have powerful abilities, but MKT only has a few, Guns have a few, coder has none, hacker has alot and MA, pretty much every ability in interlock done by an MA to one of the other trees, if done right, will hurt them badly. If you really look at the Attributes you will see that the reason for MKTs being so powerful is Reason. Add more Reason to your MA stats and you will cost less IS each ability. It's all a matter of how well you know the game, and how well you use what you know to pwn others.
As a MA, Gunners, hackers, MKTs, all get owned in interlock, I can take on a few people in a row if they are slacking, MA is pwnage, so don't hate on it because of the Costs of IS it takes to use abilities, stop spamming abilities and you might have enough to kill more then one person, or one person if you are lucky and a noob kthx.
Every tree has it's weakness, every tree has it's strenght, those that understand every trees weakness and strength, those are the true IS Warriors. =P

Sorry, I lol'ed....son,
You cannot believe?? So MKT abs IS cost to be in the 10s is balanced to you considering their acc? We don't have to guess what your main load is SMILEY

I have been "specialized" in MA tree for over 3 years (on and off messing with MKT/Master Assassin). From CR1 to now, I think I have earned my rep as a one of the better ones so no hatin on MA here. And accusing me of spamming is like accusing Britney of wearing underwear.

However, if you want to add Reason to your stats as an MA, by all means do it and I will be enjoying pwning the hell out of you...warrior

Mashoe · 08/26/2008 03:33:30

Pylat wrote:

Cadsuane wrote:
Pylat wrote:
Ballak wrote:
Uh, I guess you've never heard of Upgrade Attacks.
Cause those 20 seconds out of every 90 totally make hacker the pwn in IL Amirite?
Yes.
You're doing it again Cadsuane, posting without proof. Please back up your statements.

A short list on how to easily counter Upgrade Attacks with each different class.

MA: Use Punch Reversal Catch Slam the moment it UA is used and then slam them hard, if that fails change to block and watch them miss repeatedly against your maxed out defense.
Gunman: Use Pistol Barrage the moment UA is used, if you get the powerless they can say goodbye to half of UA while you spam moves on them, change to block again and watch them miss repeatedly.
MKT: Use canny strike to leave interlock with them, it has a +100 bonus to accuracy so is very likely to outroll UA. Then just root them and run back 21m to get out of range of all their attacks, failing that you can just spam moves back at them, with your high accuracy you can outroll about half of a hackers moves anyway.
Hacker: If you have Stun 1.0 loaded use that the moment UA is used. Then spam moves at them as usual, when the stun wears off change to block.

And thus it has been proven that UA does not really make a hacker any good in interlock. It's extrememly obvious when it is used so it's very easy to counter.

It's easier than that. Staying on block is enough to completely gimp upgrade attacks, in interlock. I've given up using it in IL nowadays, If a MA gets me into IL before I get the chance to debuff their viral defense, well, not much point in trying to fight back, Either roll out or die in 5 seconds.

Anyway, I think having a higher IS cost for MA is fine, it stops people from being able to ability spam for 3 weeks non stop...

CraftyZee · 08/26/2008 04:09:07

Skull101 wrote:

Every tree has it's weakness, every tree has it's strenght, those that understand every trees weakness and strength, those are the true IS Warriors. =P

Skulls right here...

MA can be a pain of you dont know how to use it but if you do it can kick 4ss bigstyle.
i mean when im MA i maybe die 2-3 times in pvp all through it because its a great tree when u use it right.

So stop complaining and learn how to use the tree KTHX

Cadsuane · 08/26/2008 04:45:27

Pylat wrote:

You're doing it again Cadsuane, posting without proof.

My proof is on the battlefield. But go ahead, don't believe me.

Skull101 · 08/26/2008 05:29:19

Do you really want to know why gunners and MKT have more "accuracy" then all the other classes? The timers on them aren't fixed to where you cannot constantly spam abilities, there are times on MA that if you use 2 or more abilities in a row, depending on which ability it is, you can't attack for a round. Also MA abilities are alot more complex, if you look at the attacks and what they do, can do, downgrades, highest damage, MA can be pvped with alot. I've pvped with all of the trees, MA is the funnest to pvp with due to it being targeted the most.

People don't realize if you have the right stats + the right combo of gear + the right loadout + the knowladge to use it = good at MA, most people will stick to one tree due to how easy it is to return to pvp with, MAs are just as easy even going up agenst a team you have a better chance of killing one of them with any tree but MA will make it more fun and challenging.

IS costs are based on the difficulty to perform the ability or attack, how hard is it to throw a knife? Or perform a gun move? MA bends the Matrix the most so you will if you aren't good enough, waste alot of IS trying to spam abilities. The real secret to MA is stats, get your oponent stated and 9 times outa 10 they will have half their bar or more taken off, if you want to pvp as a MA learn the tree and how to use it, not just spamming the abilities and wondering why the other classes are beating you. It's not always about IS it's about the player. If you know you are gonna waste your IS in a couple moves then don't use them untill you really need them.

Nuff said.

Pylat · 08/26/2008 05:40:36

Cadsuane wrote:

Pylat wrote:
You're doing it again Cadsuane, posting without proof.
My proof is on the battlefield. But go ahead, don't believe me.

Seeming I haven't used or loaded Upgrade Attacks in months and still win, I guess the proof really is on the battle field.

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/26/2008 06:04:11

CraftyZee wrote:

Skull101 wrote:
Every tree has it's weakness, every tree has it's strenght, those that understand every trees weakness and strength, those are the true IS Warriors. =P
Skulls right here...

MA can be a pain of you dont know how to use it but if you do it can kick 4ss bigstyle.
i mean when im MA i maybe die 2-3 times in pvp all through it because its a great tree when u use it right.

So stop complaining and learn how to use the tree KTHX

rofl, hilarious...

I am not saying MA abs need to be reduced in IS Cost (except maybe for 1 or 2), but something is up with the IS Cost of other trees.
I have never lost a fight due to lack of IS so why people keep reverting it to me not knowing the tree sounds more like a defensive maneuver to "shut me up", or something. I'll let Bruce defend me on that, KTHNX SMILEY

The_Bruceter wrote:

To me it doesn't seem as though he's 'cryin' about bein beaten (and tbh i don't think many would beat him.)

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/26/2008 06:06:20

Skull101 wrote:

Do you really want to know why gunners and MKT have more "accuracy" then all the other classes? The timers on them aren't fixed to where you cannot constantly spam abilities, there are times on MA that if you use 2 or more abilities in a row, depending on which ability it is, you can't attack for a round. Also MA abilities are alot more complex, if you look at the attacks and what they do, can do, downgrades, highest damage, MA can be pvped with alot. I've pvped with all of the trees, MA is the funnest to pvp with due to it being targeted the most.
People don't realize if you have the right stats + the right combo of gear + the right loadout + the knowladge to use it = good at MA, most people will stick to one tree due to how easy it is to return to pvp with, MAs are just as easy even going up agenst a team you have a better chance of killing one of them with any tree but MA will make it more fun and challenging.
IS costs are based on the difficulty to perform the ability or attack, how hard is it to throw a knife? Or perform a gun move? MA bends the Matrix the most so you will if you aren't good enough, waste alot of IS trying to spam abilities. The real secret to MA is stats, get your oponent stated and 9 times outa 10 they will have half their bar or more taken off, if you want to pvp as a MA learn the tree and how to use it, not just spamming the abilities and wondering why the other classes are beating you. It's not always about IS it's about the player. If you know you are gonna waste your IS in a couple moves then don't use them untill you really need them.
Nuff said.

please read my previous posts.Telling me I don't know the tree is like telling you that you have no idea what you're talking about. In both cases it's based on zero knowledge and experience, kthnx.

pyro20 · 08/26/2008 09:44:29

I usually wear the same amount of IS regen clothes for each tree, and honestly I use up my IS slowest with MA. And although some people may not consider the MA free-fire attacks as wothwhile, landing one in between each attack really helps, considering that would have to be replaced with an extra knife throw or hack with other trees.
Guns is just as high an IS cost as MA, if you consider the out of IL rifle and smg attacks that go up to 45 IS, pistol aerial is the really only low IS attack thats used often.

Also upgrade attacks is only really useful in IL if you DOT stack or throw out a stun first, otherwise you're gonna lose time due to timers and only get out maybe 4 attacks max.

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/26/2008 10:02:06

SampleNow wrote:

All i ask is for powershot. please................

nostalgia.....

OvidiusPubliusNaso · 08/26/2008 10:12:59

pyro20 wrote:

I usually wear the same amount of IS regen clothes for each tree, and honestly I use up my IS slowest with MA. And although some people may not consider the MA free-fire attacks as wothwhile, landing one in between each attack really helps, considering that would have to be replaced with an extra knife throw or hack with other trees.
Guns is just as high an IS cost as MA, if you consider the out of IL rifle and smg attacks that go up to 45 IS, pistol aerial is the really only low IS attack thats used often.

Also upgrade attacks is only really useful in IL if you DOT stack or throw out a stun first, otherwise you're gonna lose time due to timers and only get out maybe 4 attacks max.

I agree Guns and MA aren't that far off.

GoDGiVeR · 08/26/2008 10:13:15

Cadsuane wrote:

Pylat wrote:
You're doing it again Cadsuane, posting without proof.
My proof is on the battlefield. But go ahead, don't believe me.

I make 2x the kills in PvP by using the Spy tree than I do on average with any other tree. and I don't even load MKT, just KT is enough. Same goes with IS clothing, except for Seraphim, I do not need IS clothing for knifes, my opponents die quickly enough.

Back on topic: Inner Strength Bonus should be put more into effect by putting passive IS regen buffs into various trees, maybe.

Virrago · 08/26/2008 10:18:44

Just as a reminder:

Forum Rules

Do's and Don'ts

Do be courteous and mature in your posts.

Do feel free to disagree, but keep it constructive and appropriate.

GoDGiVeR · 08/26/2008 10:46:02

Virrago wrote:

Just as a reminder:

Forum Rules

Do's and Don'ts

Do be courteous and mature in your posts.
Do feel free to disagree, but keep it constructive and appropriate.

Yes. I disagree.

P.S.: j/king <3

Skull101 · 08/26/2008 18:25:32

Please don't take anything I write on these forums as directed at anyone, they are mostly in General terms and are ment as such.

On another note, IS costs cannot be reduced without lowering the actual damage that that ability does. As the dev said, you reduce the IS cost and you reduce the DPS or HPS of said abilities. So unless you want to weaken some of the other trees that really already get out classed by MAs then yea, nothing really needs to be changed.

I will say one thing though, the only two MA abilities that really should get looked at are Wrist throw and Ki charge Summon. These don't do good damage yet they cost unreal amounts of IS which means no one hardly ever uses them. Which imo makes them useless. And useless abilities, aren't good.

Denary · 08/27/2008 07:36:02

Skull101 wrote:

I will say one thing though, the only two MA abilities that really should get looked at are Wrist throw and Ki charge Summon. These don't do good damage yet they cost unreal amounts of IS which means no one hardly ever uses them. Which imo makes them useless. And useless abilities, aren't good.

Wrist throw causes more damage than any other non state special ability and has a good chance to cause Stun which is probably the most powerful downgrade that there is. Ki Charged Summon has a huge downgrade to both melee and ballistic accuracy almost completely nullifying the opponent if they are either MA or Gunmen for at least 2 rounds.

GoDGiVeR · 08/27/2008 09:32:32

Denary wrote:

Skull101 wrote:
I will say one thing though, the only two MA abilities that really should get looked at are Wrist throw and Ki charge Summon. These don't do good damage yet they cost unreal amounts of IS which means no one hardly ever uses them. Which imo makes them useless. And useless abilities, aren't good.
Wrist throw causes more damage than any other non state special ability and has a good chance to cause Stun which is probably the most powerful downgrade that there is. Ki Charged Summon has a huge downgrade to both melee and ballistic accuracy almost completely nullifying the opponent if they are either MA or Gunmen for at least 2 rounds.

Wrist Throw does less damage than Extreme Falling Kick but costs much more. The Stun % is unknown and from personal experience lies around 30%. Before I'd ever use Wrist Throw I'd either use: EFK for damage, SB for partial powerless, PRCS for powerless or plainly Sidekick for nearly equivalent damage with a much lesser IS cost.

Ki Summon may downgrade like hell, but for how long? And at what cost? With what accuracy OoIL? Not worth it. The IS you lose may take the other guys accuracy, but also a good 1k of damage you could have done with other abs of equivalent IS.

9mmfu · 08/27/2008 12:45:14

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Denary wrote:
Skull101 wrote:
I will say one thing though, the only two MA abilities that really should get looked at are Wrist throw and Ki charge Summon. These don't do good damage yet they cost unreal amounts of IS which means no one hardly ever uses them. Which imo makes them useless. And useless abilities, aren't good.
Wrist throw causes more damage than any other non state special ability and has a good chance to cause Stun which is probably the most powerful downgrade that there is. Ki Charged Summon has a huge downgrade to both melee and ballistic accuracy almost completely nullifying the opponent if they are either MA or Gunmen for at least 2 rounds.

Wrist Throw does less damage than Extreme Falling Kick but costs much more. The Stun % is unknown and from personal experience lies around 30%. Before I'd ever use Wrist Throw I'd either use: EFK for damage, SB for partial powerless, PRCS for powerless or plainly Sidekick for nearly equivalent damage with a much lesser IS cost.

Ki Summon may downgrade like hell, but for how long? And at what cost? With what accuracy OoIL? Not worth it. The IS you lose may take the other guys accuracy, but also a good 1k of damage you could have done with other abs of equivalent IS.

Wrist Throw's stun chance is significantly higher than EFK's stun chance, in the range of x4 times as great, there by causing the IS cost to be higher and DPS to be lower no Wrist Throw when compared to Extreme Falling Kick.

Omega0 · 08/27/2008 13:46:12

9mmfu wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:
Denary wrote:
Skull101 wrote:
I will say one thing though, the only two MA abilities that really should get looked at are Wrist throw and Ki charge Summon. These don't do good damage yet they cost unreal amounts of IS which means no one hardly ever uses them. Which imo makes them useless. And useless abilities, aren't good.
Wrist throw causes more damage than any other non state special ability and has a good chance to cause Stun which is probably the most powerful downgrade that there is. Ki Charged Summon has a huge downgrade to both melee and ballistic accuracy almost completely nullifying the opponent if they are either MA or Gunmen for at least 2 rounds.

Wrist Throw does less damage than Extreme Falling Kick but costs much more. The Stun % is unknown and from personal experience lies around 30%. Before I'd ever use Wrist Throw I'd either use: EFK for damage, SB for partial powerless, PRCS for powerless or plainly Sidekick for nearly equivalent damage with a much lesser IS cost.

Ki Summon may downgrade like hell, but for how long? And at what cost? With what accuracy OoIL? Not worth it. The IS you lose may take the other guys accuracy, but also a good 1k of damage you could have done with other abs of equivalent IS.
Wrist Throw's stun chance is significantly higher than EFK's stun chance, in the range of x4 times as great, there by causing the IS cost to be higher and DPS to be lower no Wrist Throw when compared to Extreme Falling Kick.

Why is it that some abilities explicitly state their debuff chance, but others don't?

Denary · 08/27/2008 14:00:47

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Denary wrote:
Skull101 wrote:
I will say one thing though, the only two MA abilities that really should get looked at are Wrist throw and Ki charge Summon. These don't do good damage yet they cost unreal amounts of IS which means no one hardly ever uses them. Which imo makes them useless. And useless abilities, aren't good.
Wrist throw causes more damage than any other non state special ability and has a good chance to cause Stun which is probably the most powerful downgrade that there is. Ki Charged Summon has a huge downgrade to both melee and ballistic accuracy almost completely nullifying the opponent if they are either MA or Gunmen for at least 2 rounds.

Ki Summon may downgrade like hell, but for how long? And at what cost? With what accuracy OoIL? Not worth it. The IS you lose may take the other guys accuracy, but also a good 1k of damage you could have done with other abs of equivalent IS.

9mm explained Wrist throw much better than I did and Ki Summon's downgrade is huge in comparison to other abilities, it has a base downgrade of 60 pts. and thats only base, most people have at least 60% possibly 70% Melee accuracy buff which would take the melee portion of the attack to downgrade by 96pts approx, it also can be used OoIL and the debuff lasts for 12 seconds which is 3 rounds.

Now having your melee accuracy cut in half or more for 3 rounds of combat is a significant dowgrade, plus the fact it can also be used out of interlock it's a very powerful attack, I'm certain if it was lowered to half of what it was it would be a must load for all MA's.