NPCs using specials above their levels.

#36300484742 08/02/2008 23:21:57 NPCs using specials above their levels.

I'm not sure if this was by design or is a fluke in the system, but it is a real issue. I've bugged this problem numerous times, but now I'd just like an answer.

Ok, I've had:
-SSR guards, level 40, using Wrist Throw(a level 42 Karate move.)
-Unlimits, level 35, using Machine Gun Kick (a level 36 Karate move)
-Gunslinger NPCs, level 45, using Dual Pistol Execution (a level 46 Handguns move)
-EPN Crusaders, level 36, level 26, using Sucidal Butterfly, Pistol Barrage, (levels 36, 27, Kung Fu, Handguns respectively)
-Commandos, level 26, level 45 using Pistol Barrage and Dual Pistol Execution (level 27 and 46 respectively, Handgun moves)
-Tengu, levels 30 and 45 respectively, using Aerial Takedown and Tomo Nage (level 39 and 46 respectively Aikido moves)

That's just to name a few. All I'd like to know is if this is by design: Are the NPCs supposed to exploit and use specials above their levels? Or is it just a fluke in the system that needs to be looked at. It is really quite annoying that the NPCs have this kind of advantage over the players, especially when it comes to the likes of farming Captain Dernick, and his level 45 using Dual Pistol Execution that he is NOT supposed to use.

It's not the fact that the NPCs are too difficult in this perspective, but it's just the fact that it makes for a very unbalanced fight at times, especially in this combat system when the NPC can use specials that are two to even nine levels above them.

So, as I said: By design for exploiting NPCs? Or is this just a glitch in the system?

#36300484754 08/02/2008 23:59:37 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Yeah they do that a lot. It's been known about for quite some time I believe, and doesn't show any signs of being "fixed" anytime soon. Maybe the NPC is just so awesome that it can use that ability.

#36300484823 08/03/2008 06:34:14 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Yea, they know about it. I think 9mm even claimed it was by design SMILEY

#36300484834 08/03/2008 08:00:39 Re:Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

personlll wrote:

Yea, they know about it. I think 9mm even claimed it was by design

Yeah, I remember it. The reason argued behind it is that the AI of the NPCs is limited, and giving them abilities above their level makes the fight more interesting. I agree with it, though it can be frustrating sometimes, specially at the lower levels.

#36300484835 08/03/2008 08:08:19 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

It isn't too much of an issue seeming NPC's are at a disadvantage in basically every other aspect. But it can be annoying when you get one shotted by Tengu's Tomo Nage.

#36300484837 08/03/2008 08:16:55 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

It can be annoying when you get DPE'd for 700-800 damage as well, roughly a 1/3 of your health.

As long as it's by design, then whatever. Like I said, it's not a real big issue other than the fact the NPCs do have that advantage over players, and it makes for some annoying moments when the above mentioned things occur.

#36300485122 08/04/2008 08:43:43 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Yes this is by design.

#36300485787 08/06/2008 00:06:00 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Not only that. NPCs also can use abilities they aren't equipped for. Example: Dual Pistol Execution with only one gun.

Another thing with NPCs: an NPC's freefire move executes no matter what happens. If an NPC launches a Hack and gets shot while the hack is still casting the move will still finish eventhough the NPC has died (easiest to notice with Howitzer NPCs or Duelist's Disarming Shot that have longer casting times). That is something that would never work for a player

Guess that's by-design too

#36300485833 08/06/2008 06:24:25 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Actually I'm pretty sure that's a bug.

#36300485842 08/06/2008 06:43:23 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

NPC's shouldnt really use abilities that require dual handguns if they aren't sporting duel handguns, or at very least they should have a duel pair of guns in their inventory (a bit difficult if they don't have an inventory, granted) so that when they use a duel handgun ability, they would have the change gun animation (which I havent seen occur)

I replayed an archive where you fight alongside Agent Pace and she did a few DPE's vs an accelerated NPC each time she had her FM-1500 in one hand and a phantom gun in the other, which looked kinda silly tbh. Although the problem with Agents using duel handgun moves is their use of the FM-1500 as they don't have duel FM-1500's.

#36300485861 08/06/2008 07:48:30 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Agents used to have dual handguns, but they were changed to wield an FM-1500 once the model was made.

#36300485868 08/06/2008 08:19:13 Re:Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Manua wrote:

If an NPC launches a Hack and gets shot while the hack is still casting the move will still finish eventhough the NPC has died (easiest to notice with Howitzer NPCs or Duelist's Disarming Shot that have longer casting times). That is something that would never work for a player
Guess that's by-design too

That sounds more buggy than by-design to me. I can understand the ability thing for pve balance reasons but straight out having abilities fire off after an npcs died seems a little weird.

#36300485872 08/06/2008 08:31:47 Re:Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

Pylat wrote:

Agents used to have dual handguns, but they were changed to wield an FM-1500 once the model was made.

I have always thought that all Agents should be lvl 255 and not need any abilities, just freefire and self defense. All fightable machine NPC's in critical missions should be security captains, enforcers etc... this means that while Agents can still appear in them but not that you have to fight because operative should not really be able to take them on.

Of course the exception to this rule would be Pace and Gray as it would be inconsistant with other LE characters. At least the issue wouldn't be so noticable though. At least thats how I feel.

#36300487146 08/09/2008 18:55:14 Re:NPCs using specials above their levels.

as i understand the story behind that..

Pre truce there were 3 all powerfull agents
but after the truce there were a lot more agents needed for minor infactions that it was a waste of system resources to have just a a few.
so they spread the runtime out making a lot more but weaker agents.
now post truce many agents have been upgraded to better deliver justice.

I could be completely mistaken though