85 posts · 2008-06-22 21:49:55 to 2008-06-29 19:12:08
I haven't seen EPN blow any code bombs in... years.2 weeks ago we blowed a couple code bombs to distract the Cypherites.
Well, okay, there was Taecross. And Taecross's fan club with their annual code bombings. But those guys are just crazy. ;p
And as far as I know the Code Pulse doesn't actually do any damage to the Matrix (i.e. freakin' out the code, drowning blues).
Edit: And again I haven't seen any Code Pulsing since the Morpheus Returns events.
ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:I haven't seen EPN blow any code bombs in... years.2 weeks ago we blowed a couple code bombs to distract the Cypherites.
Well, okay, there was Taecross. And Taecross's fan club with their annual code bombings. But those guys are just crazy. ;p
And as far as I know the Code Pulse doesn't actually do any damage to the Matrix (i.e. freakin' out the code, drowning blues).
Edit: And again I haven't seen any Code Pulsing since the Morpheus Returns events.
So my understanding of these "code bombs" or "code pulses"
Here's your problem, you're assuming that these two things are the same when they're not.
A code bomb is a weapon. It does as you said, reveals the code of the Matrix causing anyone who sees it to wake up, many of which simply end up drowning in their pods (why their pods don't get flushed like anyone elses when they wake up I don't know but nevermind). It's used to destabalise the system by disrupting it's power source.
A code pulse is a hacking tool. When a code pulse is detonated it has no effect at all on the bluepill population. The device instead realeases a barrage of hacks and dirty code deep into the system, uncovering and transmitting data that would otherwise not be reachable (or very difficult to reach).
Code bombs haven't been utilised in quite some time, apart from, as Zippy said, by TaeCross, the rogue EPN liason and his annual gang of followers. Code Pulses however are used on a semi-regular basis by EPN in order to obtain information or other more creative uses like unlocking doors into constructs.
Hope that clears things up for you.
But, Code Pulses are hacking into the System violently... who knows what long term effect repeated hacks will make. They are still deadly to the System, even if its not immediatly apparent.
((MxO version's of holes in the Ozone :p ))
But, Code Pulses are hacking into the System violently... who knows what long term effect repeated hacks will make. They are still deadly to the System, even if its not immediatly apparent.
((MxO version's of holes in the Ozone :p ))
Precisely. It has not been long enough to guage the full long term effects, if any, of the code pulses. Just because the short term doesn't manifest any issue does not mean that, in the long run, none will appear.
I'd like to know if there has been any serious study into the long term effects of these 'devices' but I tend to doubt that there has, they do the job there and then, who cares what happens later.
Apparently though the most recent attempt was foiled by the Cyphs although I can't see how it distracted them. I believe they were looking for the Morpheus Sim and found it. In fact it was the Morpheus Sim who actually told them about the occuring event.
Ebola wrote:But, Code Pulses are hacking into the System violently... who knows what long term effect repeated hacks will make. They are still deadly to the System, even if its not immediatly apparent.
((MxO version's of holes in the Ozone :p ))
Precisely. It has not been long enough to guage the full long term effects, if any, of the code pulses. Just because the short term doesn't manifest any issue does not mean that, in the long run, none will appear.
I'd like to know if there has been any serious study into the long term effects of these 'devices' but I tend to doubt that there has, they do the job there and then, who cares what happens later.
Apparently though the most recent attempt was foiled by the Cyphs although I can't see how it distracted them. I believe they were looking for the Morpheus Sim and found it. In fact it was the Morpheus Sim who actually told them about the occuring event.
Its been a little less than two years. System is still working fine even in the areas hit hardest and the most frequently and by this SOME kind of affect (if there was one) would be at the be a the very least noticeable.
Its been over two years. System is still working fine even in the areas hit hard and by this SOME kind of affect (if there was one) would be noticeable.Not necessarily, especially if the effect is cumulative. As Ebola pointed out, it may have the old Ozone effect. As I said, unless there has been adequate and serious study into any long term effects, simply stating that nothing is wrong so far and no problems will arise is ridiculous, especially if the areas hit are not routinely observed, studied and monitored.
I left EPN when they started to use Code Pulses, I don't really trust the "no harm is done with this bombs" they're saying.
I don't trust CPDs either. Though they claim not to affect the unawakened they still are intrusive to the Matrix, which could have effects on everyone still plugged in, let alone the programs that maintain it.
Has anything actually useful been obtained by using CPDs? Or are they still scraping the bottom of the recycle bin?
So-- hacking into the Matrix from your ship at broadcast depth is...what? Safe? Unintrusive?
Oh wait, let me guess, you Machinists get 'special access' so that's it's not 'hacking' technically...
CPD's have never had any long term detrimental affect on the prison construct. Please refrain from fear-mongering in the absence of supporting evidence.
So-- hacking into the Matrix from your ship at broadcast depth is...what? Safe? Unintrusive?
Oh wait, let me guess, you Machinists get 'special access' so that's it's not 'hacking' technically...
CPD's have never had any long term detrimental affect on the prison construct. Please refrain from fear-mongering in the absence of supporting evidence.
Well if you want to go that route, then I'd be willing to bet our broadcast signal is more welcome than yours in the Matrix.
If you're comparing such an act to a "barrage of hacks and dirty code deep into the system, uncovering and transmitting data that would otherwise not be reachable", we might as well end this debate right now.
This will only end in disaster.
Again, you have no opposing evidence to say that there is no detrimental effect over the long term.
And you have no evidence to say that there is.
To be honest, there is a far greater amount of evidence in support of the CPD, being that they have been used over the course of two years without any damaging effect. Long-term effects would generally show themselves within such a timeframe. However, you can pull that "the jury's still out" card as much as you like on the long-term - you still have no evidence that there is any impact whatsoever. What is certainly known is that there is no short-term impact which does throw support to their use.
Not that I'm opposed to leaving an impact. I just hate watching Machinists clutch at straws all the time.
Again, you have no opposing evidence to say that there is no detrimental effect over the long term. The only evidence you are willing to present is that there has been no evidence thus far.
Year One: No noticeable side effects or recordable after-effects to the simulation.
Year Two: Still nothing.
How is this not good enough for even the most scrupulous followers of the scientific method? It's like saying Santa Clause may yet be real; just because we've never seen him doesn't mean he's not!
While the code of the simulation was written by the Machines, adding a new program, one that does something that was never intended by the simulation, could have long term consequences. Deny it all you want with the same old flimsy excuse, the devices get you results so who cares what actually happens to the simulation and it's bluepill population?Oh, please.
ShiXinFeng wrote:So-- hacking into the Matrix from your ship at broadcast depth is...what? Safe? Unintrusive?
Oh wait, let me guess, you Machinists get 'special access' so that's it's not 'hacking' technically...
CPD's have never had any long term detrimental affect on the prison construct. Please refrain from fear-mongering in the absence of supporting evidence.
Well if you want to go that route, then I'd be willing to bet our broadcast signal is more welcome than yours in the Matrix.If you're comparing such an act to a "barrage of hacks and dirty code deep into the system, uncovering and transmitting data that would otherwise not be reachable", we might as well end this debate right now.
This will only end in disaster.
How is what a CPD does that much different from hacking into a tenuous, inherently-unstable simulation for the purpose of injecting into a closed system personalities that may further destabilize the Matrix simply by being there?
Vinia wrote:Lack of short term effects does not negate long term effects, without any apparent study you do not even know of an adequate timeframe for effects to manifest themselves. Again using the flimsy excuse that so far they don't not seem to have any apparent effect is quite ridiculous, especially when you say it's greater evidence. Using something for it's immediate benefit and not even bothering to study any possible long term effects is simply irresponsible considering where it's being done.Again, you have no opposing evidence to say that there is no detrimental effect over the long term.
And you have no evidence to say that there is.To be honest, there is a far greater amount of evidence in support of the CPD, being that they have been used over the course of two years without any damaging effect. Long-term effects would generally show themselves within such a timeframe. However, you can pull that "the jury's still out" card as much as you like on the long-term - you still have no evidence that there is any impact whatsoever. What is certainly known is that there is no short-term impact which does throw support to their use.
Not that I'm opposed to leaving an impact. I just hate watching Machinists clutch at straws all the time.
While the code of the simulation was written by the Machines, adding a new program, one that does something that was never intended by the simulation, could have long term consequences. Deny it all you want with the same old flimsy excuse, the devices get you results so who cares what actually happens to the simulation and it's bluepill population?
Were the actions of the program Smith intended by the simulation? I guess we both agree that they were not. And still, after the program deletion, the system was reset in a few seconds. Completely. As if nothing happened. And the bluepills were ok. S please, do not under-estimate the flexibility of the Matrix and it's capacity to get any corruptions fixed.
For now, all you say about any harm, caused by CPD, is a pure speculation. Nothing more.
Neoteny wrote:Vinia wrote:Lack of short term effects does not negate long term effects, without any apparent study you do not even know of an adequate timeframe for effects to manifest themselves. Again using the flimsy excuse that so far they don't not seem to have any apparent effect is quite ridiculous, especially when you say it's greater evidence. Using something for it's immediate benefit and not even bothering to study any possible long term effects is simply irresponsible considering where it's being done.Again, you have no opposing evidence to say that there is no detrimental effect over the long term.
And you have no evidence to say that there is.To be honest, there is a far greater amount of evidence in support of the CPD, being that they have been used over the course of two years without any damaging effect. Long-term effects would generally show themselves within such a timeframe. However, you can pull that "the jury's still out" card as much as you like on the long-term - you still have no evidence that there is any impact whatsoever. What is certainly known is that there is no short-term impact which does throw support to their use.
Not that I'm opposed to leaving an impact. I just hate watching Machinists clutch at straws all the time.
How do you study that which manifests no physical or psychological attributes? What is this supposed to be, a ghost hunt?
And besides, if a few of the Sleepers get the idea that what they are being force-fed here ain't exactly kosher, well...all the better for the future of humanity.
In any case, like Zu-Zu said, just try and stop us from using them.
Michael1 wrote:Code Pulses. My bad.ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:I haven't seen EPN blow any code bombs in... years.2 weeks ago we blowed a couple code bombs to distract the Cypherites.
Well, okay, there was Taecross. And Taecross's fan club with their annual code bombings. But those guys are just crazy. ;p
And as far as I know the Code Pulse doesn't actually do any damage to the Matrix (i.e. freakin' out the code, drowning blues).
Edit: And again I haven't seen any Code Pulsing since the Morpheus Returns events.
Code bombs have the green code effect, Code pulse devices use yellow/gold code. Are you sure it was green?
How do you study that which manifests no physical or psychological attributes? What is this supposed to be, a ghost hunt?Many subjects that provide no physical attributes have been studied, including your 'ghost hunt' some people don't stop at appearances. But you only see what the simulations code allows you to see, has Zion or EPN stopped to try to regularly look within the code where an event took place to observe it? I doubt it.And besides, if a few of the Sleepers get the idea that what they are being force-fed here ain't exactly kosher, well...all the better for the future of humanity.
In any case, like Zu-Zu said, just try and stop us from using them.
Were the actions of the program Smith intended by the simulation? I guess we both agree that they were not. And still, after the program deletion, the system was reset in a few seconds. Completely. As if nothing happened. And the bluepills were ok. S please, do not under-estimate the flexibility of the Matrix and it's capacity to get any corruptions fixed.And there are no lasting effects from the Smith Virus... Agent Gray might disagree with you there. The Smith virus was quite an event and you cannot compare a CPD event to the Smith event. The simulation doesn't get reset after a CPD event and so the release of hacks and dirty code could build up, as I said earlier, a cumulative effect. Again I bring to you the corrupter, that has hardly been fixed has it?For now, all you say about any harm, caused by CPD, is a pure speculation. Nothing more.
Vinia, does the fact that your bosses lose a few of their energy batteries drive you so stressed?
Seriously, just go and suggest to your leaders to effectuate a research on the effects of a CPD. When you get any official info about it, we'll have something to discuss. Untill such a research is done, we have no discussion subject here.
Personally I'd like to think of those 'batteries' as Human beings, so yeah, I'm annoyed when any of them die unnecessarily especially on a whim.Vinia, does the fact that your bosses lose a few of their energy batteries drive you so stressed?
Seriously, just go and suggest to your leaders to effectuate a research on the effects of a CPD. When you get any official info about it, we'll have something to discuss. Untill such a research is done, we have no discussion subject here.
You have no evidence that they cause any damage, longterm or shorterm.
Your point is moot.
Still prevention is better than a cure, so you'd better expect us to try stop you from using them.
Your whole argumenation, especially this quote, sounds exactly like G. W. Bush administration's one when the were preparing the Iraq war 
.
And anyway, you still seem to have all the excuses for not willing to suggest any research on the subject. It is quite possible EPN will discuss the question - I will do what I can to get this done. You can also try to get some solid arguments - or just stop speculating please.
You can also try to get some solid arguments - or just stop speculating please.When you present some solid evidence, other than your own usual speculation, I'll do the same. For someone who says that there is no discussion here, you sure are talkative.
You have no evidence, other than the most basic visual observation of the simulation, that they don't cause damage. You point is also weak.You have no evidence that they cause any damage, longterm or shorterm.
Your point is moot.
You can also try to get some solid arguments - or just stop speculating please.
(( I like how I turned this into a discussion on global warming :p))((lol, now that's a point, would CPD's cause global warming? Within the simulation obviously...
))Burden of Proof. Look it up.
You claiming there is harm done or could be harm done means you have to prove its there not that we have to prove it isn't there.
But on that note the evidence is by far in favor of those saying there is not lasting affect. We have 2+ years where not even the testing site (01 construct) is affected. Lets not stop there though, lets compare it to other hacks that have gone on and the time it took to fix them.
Code Bombs, no lasting affects in the simulation after blowing and easily fixed by a reset of the area.
The Override hacks the Intruders used. They took out an entire district and the area was fixed up the next week.
Assassin's deterioration that corrupted the code around every monument in the system, fixed the week after his death.
Sleepwalker's hack, fixed over night!
Affects of Sati not being present in the Matrix over a course of...not sure on specifics but a long *CENSORED* time and brought the simulation almost to the point of collapse. Fixed over night.
All of those are a hundred times more deadly to the simulation and the areas they took place in you can't even tell it happened without knowing it did. Fixed up within a few days on average and your claiming that this one, although the Machines know it happens when it does, is some how eluding there systems to restore the simulation to how it was before it was hacked?
Yeah, that's really logical.
Edit: yay quick submit and silly grammer
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, unlike yours my point is not moot.You have no evidence that they cause any damage, longterm or shorterm.
Your point is moot.
Neoteny wrote:No its just bad debating. The same argument can be made for his side. The absence of evidenced to prove him right doesn't mean he's wrong.The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence, unlike yours my point is not moot.You have no evidence that they cause any damage, longterm or shorterm.
Your point is moot.
Well, despite the fact that I have learned the difference between code bombs and code pulses, what I wanted still hasn't been accomplished. Has EPN used the code bombs outside of the misguided, extreme members of the organization (even though the cypherites would like to believe that's everyone). If so, why would they do this? Isn't the point of E Pluribus Neo not just honoring and fighting for Neo's memory, but to give every bluepill the choice of awakening or staying asleep? That's what I thought, but maybe there's more than meets the eye like most things in life.
Well, despite the fact that I have learned the difference between code bombs and code pulses, what I wanted still hasn't been accomplished. Has EPN used the code bombs outside of the misguided, extreme members of the organization (even though the cypherites would like to believe that's everyone). If so, why would they do this? Isn't the point of E Pluribus Neo not just honoring and fighting for Neo's memory, but to give every bluepill the choice of awakening or staying asleep? That's what I thought, but maybe there's more than meets the eye like most things in life.
Answer is no. At its birth several over zealous members used them which started off the "EPN = Terrorist" BS. Then Taecross came along but several people skip over the fact that he left EPN before he went on his crusade.
No sane member who understands the ideals and mission of EPN has ever used Code Bombs because they understand that they hold no place in achieving EPN's mission. A point I constantly use to have to make to some was that this is E Pluribus Neo not E Pluribus Morpheus.
You have no evidence, other than the most basic visual observation of the simulation, that they don't cause damage. You point is also weak.
I'm simply attempting to prove that there is no damaging effect, which has been tried and proven true through the use of the devices. As for mere basic visual observation? The devices were tested many times during their development to ensure their function. As you have no evidence to the contrary, you have no basis for the argument that they cause damage.
By the logic you are using to argue that CPDs can cause damage, I could say that if you reply to this, that your head will explode. Oh, maybe it won't happen the first time you do it, but each time you post a message on this relay, maybe the chance that your head will explode will climb. Maybe it will happen in four years. Or five. Or eighty. Or maybe it will happen tomorrow morning. But *CENSORED* it, I'm telling you that your head might explode, so you'd better stop posting messages on this relay.
And I'm basing this all on absolutely nothing.
By the logic you are using to argue that CPDs can cause damage, I could say that if you reply to this, that your head will explode. Oh, maybe it won't happen the first time you do it, but each time you post a message on this relay, maybe the chance that your head will explode will climb. Maybe it will happen in four years. Or five. Or eighty. Or maybe it will happen tomorrow morning. But *CENSORED* it, I'm telling you that your head might explode, so you'd better stop posting messages on this relay.And I'm basing this all on absolutely nothing.
Now you're just being absurd. Posting does makes no physiological or psychological entry into my head, in fact information flow when I post comes from my head. Opposite to that of a CPD which introduces dirty code and hacks into the Simulation.
You're post, other than being simply amusing, would have been better thought out with a better Air of Reality if it was the forums at risk of exploding due to my continuous posting. I may actually believe that. You may base it on nothing to try to prove a point but if you think about it a little more, continuous use and posting on these forums does have the possibility of making them unstable.
However, seeing that there aren't thousands of people dependant on the forums to survive, I take the risk.
This whole argument is pointless. Everyone shut up. There's no proof either way. Maybe it does damage, maybe it doesn't. Nobody knows, and until Rarebit decides to write otherwise, nobody ever will.
Now, the most annoying thing about this is all the ignorant EPN members who still after two years do NOT know the difference between a code pulse and a code bomb and insist on calling CPD's bombs. Bombs explode. CPD's inject a flow of code into the simulation that brings back information. You can argue all you want that it LOOKS and SOUNDS like a bomb, but we all know the reason for that is that its appearance in game is just more recycled content because we don't have an animator to make a different effect.
Seriously, if you can't understand EPN history then why bother even being in the org if you're just going to run around with all these misconceptions.
Aside from the very beginning in a few crits, TaeCross and his followers (and actually he received his code bombs from the Cypherites, I had a fellow faction member who found out about it and defected because of it), and Eliseus and his crew if you want to go that far, code bombs have never been used. Period.
Code pulses have been used quite often however to obtain information such as where the Morphues sim would next appear, to get into constructs, etc. etc. And I actually suggested once that Kid offer one to Pepper in exchange for information. So she still has one that to my knowledge she hasn't used yet.
So honestly, EPN, get your facts straight.
Morpheus himself set off code bombs, in an attempt to blackmail the Machines into returning Neo's body. He understood that this would lead to the deaths of bluepills, even admitting it to the Oracle, but he didn't care. And this was while the truce was still in effect.
Lyr
Seriously, if you can't understand EPN history then why bother even being in the org if you're just going to run around with all these misconceptions.
Archangel wrote:Wasn't really directed at you, more of a general statement. I've seen similar things in the past quite a bit. EPN members not knowing the difference and acting like they do or calling a CPD a bomb when it's clearly not.Seriously, if you can't understand EPN history then why bother even being in the org if you're just going to run around with all these misconceptions.
It's not that I don't understand EPN history, it's the fact that I was never told. (( I joined this game in '06 )). I've never seen a code bomb go off, and up until very recently had never even heard of one, or a code pulse. So, I did the logical thing and actually found out so that I new the truth. Besides all that, there are other reasons to be in EPN other than just setting off code bombs and CPD's.
Did Zion declare him renegade before or after he started his bombing campaign?
