Oligarch Theories. - MXO Forum Archive

#36300461411 05/30/2008 15:33:58 Oligarch Theories.

Just ran a Merovingian archive mission where the Merv is trying to figure out why the machines would choose humanity as their sole power source despite being so inefficient, operatives consult the oracle in regards to early machines and what really happened during the first war (since it questions the validity of the Zion Archive files) where she replies along the lines of "not everyone hated the machines for being good at business and it wasnt just business the machines were interested in". This in itself is an obvious allusion to the intruder colony but whats more interesting is the conclusion at the end of the mission after having scanned the 01 Taskmaster's coding...

Early machines around the time of first war were relatively simple, not creative enough to solve problems in unconvential ways. It begins to question the machines ability to have 'evolved' to their current intelligent state by themselves and suggests an early realiance on human beings.

So heres what comes to me: First war sparks, the intruder colony back the machines, theres an agreement made whereby the colony will help further develop the machine civilisation (since they wernt intelligent enough to do it themselves) and work on the technology (or allow controlled access to the already made reversal technology as alluded to in a recent merv crit) to operation dark storm, in exchange the machines are not allowed to slaughter humanity but instead are told to preserve them as a power source sealed within a giant interconnected neural simulation.

And there lies the crux of the theory. The Matrix was developed, or at the very least masterminded, by The Intruders and not The Machines. The Architect, the maker of the matrix, may well have been coded directly by one of the intruder colonists (backed up by the intruders obvious powers over and deletion threats to him).

/discuss and share your own theories.

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300461488 05/30/2008 20:53:18 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

I'm not quite sure of that.

A few theories floating in my head:

The Oligarchy, as I'll dub this brand of human, is a cyborg race that chose to surrender to the Machines sometime during or just after the Second Renaissance. As to your theory, Cloudwol(f), I'd say that the original Machines' A.I. had hit that little marker where they began to improve upon themselves; no outside force was necessary or ABLE to facilitate their evolution. Back to the Oligarchy. Possibly the human survivors that the Machines felt had no cause to be killed, and set up their own peace agreement with the humans.

The Oligarchy is in fact a city created by an earlier One (perhaps a Beta One (one of the Ones (too many Ones (too many parenthesis!)) before the Cycle) and kept intact by his sheer ability to manipulate Machine programs remotely, like Neo. This city evolved from that One's children, who shared the same basic abilities, of course slightly mutated with each generation explaining their "incompatibility" with the Matrix. Over time, the Machines grew from frustration over not being able to destroy them to fear of them being able to destroy 01, and relented to a peace agreement, which is itself slowly being strained by current events. Perhaps Halborn is the One that started it, keeping himself alive through his mechanical prowess.

The Oligarchy started as a faction of Machines that split off from 01 and evolved on its own course, using its own Matrix. I was going to say that it became so evolved that it started developing bio-mechanical beings above both human AND machine, but the first sentence is more likely to me.

#36300461490 05/30/2008 20:57:29 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

The thought that the Machines couldn't evolve by themselves had crossed my mind, and that they needed someone human to code the Oracle. She was programmed to create the Matrix, but it was never said who programmed her. The Machines relied on their system of control to make it look like they themselves had creativity, and were the equivalent/superiors of humans in terms of creativity, or to never even have the thought of "There might be other human colonies" exist in any Redpill's mind. The Machines had the path that all of Zion/The One took to get to where they wanted them to be, so there could be another stable reset of Zion. This way, Zion/The One would never hear of the Oligarch colony.

But I simply don't have enough information to throw a lot of my theories out there.

#36300461509 05/30/2008 22:20:06 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

wat

YOU ARE DEAD TO ME CLOUDWOLF.

*edited by admin*

#36300461524 05/30/2008 23:13:49 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

But what about Carlyne? From the clues I have seen from the older cinematics, he is the shadowy figure watching the remote video screens. Both their voices match. He seems to be the smarter of the two. I don't think your theory about Halborn is correct Zippy. Theres more to it. Carlyne, as stated by Halborn, has always been one step ahead. Maybe he is the Oligarch?

#36300461539 05/31/2008 00:46:58 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Ballak wrote:

wat
YOU ARE DEAD TO ME CLOUDWOLF.

O.o

why? lol.

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300461541 05/31/2008 00:51:36 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Zudrag wrote:

But I simply don't have enough information to throw a lot of my theories out there.

Go for it, wild speculation can be fun ^_^

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300461612 05/31/2008 12:21:28 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Quotes to make note of

"The machines' artificial intelligence could be seen in every facet of society, including the creation of new and better AI." - From Second Renaissance part 1

"our information indicated that human knowledge of nanomachine technology was inferior to our own" - CAR80N

from these two quotes we can see that Machine AI was allegedly capable of bettering its self and improving thus creating over time a technological evolution for its species all the way to the point where in some areas it had surpassed human knowledge. The General I believe comments on this in his blog that the only thing humanity was able to produce that was worth purchasing by 01 was cinema.

And on Machine creativity Rama Kandra's wife as stated by him is said to be "highly creative" the two of them go so far as to create a program by themselves and each and every program we see as well as the machines are capable of showing human emotions through the connects that the words used to define them imply.

While 01 may have been "primitive" as far as decisions go they (like us) are capable of improving themselves thus createing a technological evolution that they have had at elast 600 years to improve. They are also able to make the connections bettween actions to understand human emotions so the thought process to create something is something equally attanable.

#36300461803 05/31/2008 17:31:02 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

cloudwolf wrote:

Ballak wrote:
wat
YOU ARE DEAD TO ME CLOUDWOLF.

O.o

why? lol.

Old Theory my *CENSORED*. It's pretty much the same thing you said.

*edited by admin*

#36300461944 06/01/2008 01:43:55 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Sorry, i still dont follow. I never said this was an old theory, just a thought i had randomly after running an archive mission =P

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300477294 07/11/2008 15:53:10 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

So we come to the realisation that Ouroboros is really just a front for the Oligarchs...

Ouroboros being an electrical goods company specialising in home toasters (i swear i remember reading that somewhere though i cant find the source for the life of me)...

This ties in all too well with the theory the Oligarch are in fact those humans who helped the Machines evolve past their own early self-design limitations, essentially giving them their sentience.

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300477388 07/12/2008 01:07:49 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

The Ouroboros Corporation makes robotic snakes and microchips along with being present in every major scientific field on electronics, the guide let us know that in this even t.

EDIT: Robotic kittens too xD

#36300477389 07/12/2008 01:14:19 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Still, robotics. You get the idea SMILEY

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300477524 07/12/2008 14:53:51 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

cloudwolf wrote:

Still, robotics. You get the idea " />

Machine crit 10.3.2. Just did it, the operator says he thinks he had a toaster from them.

Which would make the "toaster" name for Machines ironic if the Oligarchs had helped make them what they are today.

#36300477535 07/12/2008 15:23:40 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

MotorZ wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:
Still, robotics. You get the idea ">
Machine crit 10.3.2. Just did it, the operator says he thinks he had a toaster from them.

Which would make the "toaster" name for Machines ironic if the Oligarchs had helped make them what they are today.

A-ha! Knew i hadn't dreamt it, thanks.

But yeah, the irony would be xtreme. With an x to make it xtra cool. With an x to make it xtra cool. With an x...

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300477733 07/13/2008 07:55:47 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

From what I gathered, Ouroboros is a company who produces electronic items for bluepills within the simulation, but it also has a few Oligarch members posing as employees or board members who keep an eye on goings on in the simulation and report back to the Oligarchy. Mind you, would these members be actual Oligarch or Humans who are employed by the Oligarchy? The only reason why I ask is because as far as we saw from Halborn and Carlyne, their appearance in the simulation is somewhat different to normal.

#36300477742 07/13/2008 08:16:05 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

As I already called in some other thread.

The Oligarch is a civilization above the Machine rule. They in fact could be said to rule over them and be the cause for all this. For all the problems they have been causing the Machines one has to wonder why they do not attack this colony and why they are so afraid of them. If this was Zion doing this swift action would have already been taken against the city but we have yet to see such. Only reasonable answer is they can't because they are under the control of or enslaved by them.

Hmm which has gotten me thinking lately. What if that is the reason why the Machines called off the truce with Zion. Because they fortified themselves so much they may now be able to progress technologically past what the Machines have allowed. meaning they themselves could per say achieve the same level of technology as this colony has. This in turn could also be related as to what the Architect created the cycle for. That if allowed to Zion not only would become more and more stronger but also become more and more advanced. Perhaps his worries for his survival are because he has already seen or knows what humans are capable of in this colony?

Per speculation though on my part.

#36300477755 07/13/2008 08:30:53 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

GamiSB wrote:

Only reasonable answer is they can't because they are under the control of or enslaved by them.

Or have an equitable agreement with them that could, if broken down, cause even bigger problems for both parties involved. The Oligarchy may have some aspect of control over the simulation above the Machines but control or enslavement over the whole Machine civilisation is just speculation.

#36300477763 07/13/2008 08:35:25 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Vinia wrote:

GamiSB wrote:
Only reasonable answer is they can't because they are under the control of or enslaved by them.
Or have an equitable agreement with them that could, if broken down, cause even bigger problems for both parties involved. The Oligarchy may have some aspect of control over the simulation above the Machines but control or enslavement over the whole Machine civilisation is just speculation.

Perhaps but it stands to reason that it may be the case. Zion was stuck in the truce for the for about 2 and half years and if they broke it they would be dead. Fear makes us do a lot of things and is more of an en slaver then any Matrix. While I've long sense concluded that the pods do not give the Machines energy I still stand by the idea that every lie has a shred of truth in it so there is something in this lie that may be the reason for their fear of losing the simulation and thus their fear of this colony.

#36300477772 07/13/2008 08:39:30 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Possibly. I have to agree that there is something about the colony and/or the relationship with the colony that worries the Machine civilisation. That much is obvious. Hopefully we'll find out more in the coming months.

#36300477782 07/13/2008 08:44:03 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Vinia wrote:

Possibly. I have to agree that there is something about the colony and/or the relationship with the colony that worries the Machine civilisation. That much is obvious. Hopefully we'll find out more in the coming months.

Lets hope, i got a feeling it should all be coming soon or at least bits of info sense now the Oligarchs been notified (presumably) of whats going down in the Matrix.

#36300478075 07/14/2008 03:01:49 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Me and a good friend, ijakings, were talking earlier where we discussed our shared idea that Ouroboros may well have been the company that first created the Machine AI. I mean, are the intital creators actually referenced anywhere? Animatrix, comics or anything?

He also made the connection that Binary Boy, a collector obsessed with machines and their early history, is stationed just outside Ouroboros HQ. Tied together with the robotics research and ironic manufactuer of toasters it becomes that much more of a probable theory. Recreating their own creators within their simulation of the world they were created in, while allowing their real creators to control their own company of old, from behind the scenes in their technologically advanced surface colony, it all gets rather interesting. Dont you think?

#36300478086 07/14/2008 04:21:23 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

cloudwolf wrote:

Me and a good friend, ijakings, were talking earlier where we discussed our shared idea that Ouroboros may well have been the company that first created the Machine AI. I mean, are the intital creators actually referenced anywhere? Animatrix, comics or anything?

He also made the connection that Binary Boy, a collector obsessed with machines and their early history, is stationed just outside Ouroboros HQ. Tied together with the robotics research and ironic manufactuer of toasters it becomes that much more of a probable theory. Recreating their own creators within their simulation of the world they were created in, while allowing their real creators to control their own company of old, from behind the scenes in their technologically advanced surface colony, it all gets rather interesting. Dont you think?

Seems reasonable enough

#36300478112 07/14/2008 07:54:34 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

its the sort of thing I can see rare doing for kicks.

It may also explain why the machines decided to let this colony of humans survive, rather than any other. Possibly because the machines need their original creators to survive to keep updating them and helping them to evolve, and possibly because they may not be able to harm these humans, either by fear of possibly superior technology or by it being programmed into them.

#36300479628 07/17/2008 16:06:17 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Some other things floating around since the latest Zion crits suggests no real heirarchical structure to the Ouroboros (thus, Oligarch's) systems:

- Each Oligarch works on a purely self contained basis, able to operate individually within the substructure of the group as a whole.

- Each could be a physically dead bio-mort like Halborn, controlling everything at the colony by their thoughts and suspended counciousness alone. They would be the very first creators of the machine AI, a sort of immortal elder-council.

- The other colonists may likely know nothing outside of the Oligarchy, in much the same way awakened humans automatically went to the side of the Zionites (their awakeners, "saviours" before the truce and alteratives the Oligarchs may be using awakened humans as indoctrinated followers.

- The self containment of individual Oligarch members may result in more internal conflict within the Oligarchy than we suspect, there could be internal power struggles going on all the time behind the scenes (See Carlyne wanting to get rid of Halborn).

- Mauser may have been saved by and subsequently hired by an Oligarch whos interests lie in stopping the war (this same oligarch may well be involved with the Oracles plot). A more off-wall theory connected to this in a sec.

- As already mentioned earlier in the thread, The Oligarchs are also the creators of the Matrix/Pod system, they helped the Machines evolve (being their original creators afterall) and win the war on the stipulation they preserve humanity as a power source as opposed to genocide. This is backed up the Merv research showing no logical reason to use humans as power.

- Now for that off-the-wall theory. And theres a couple of ways this could go... Right, here goes. Neo, following his saving of The Matrix and all of Humanity and the Machines (not due to saving any sort of critical power source but by stopping the extinction of Humanity which in turn have broken the initial agreement with the Oligarchy, resulting in them pwning the Machines), was moved to the colony where he was nursed back to health and accepted as a member of their civilisation (maybe even an Oligarch himself) (Note: this side tracks into a seperate theory that the Oligarchy are actually formed from previous Ones and not the creators of AI but that contradicts everything else here and will be held for another day). He's allowed to watch how things unfold from afar, never allowed to leave. He follows the rules. Until the war starts again; the one thing he'd worked so hard to stop. So he starts this plot (possibly in cohots with Morpheus, who'd figured out where his body had been moved to and faked his own death to mask his own infiltration into the colony) alongside the Oracle to end the war again. For good. This includes leaking information on the biological interface to Halborn, who'd rush to the Matrix in a rage and reveal the Oligarchy to Zion and other third parties. Now, the grand plan, destroy the Oligarchy from the inside out (remember the Oracle coding kill codes, looking at you Oligarch head council). Once the Oligarchy are gone theres no reason for the Machines to enslave Humanity as part of the original agreement and, following the awesome act of freeing them from their own prison of Oligarchy control, the Machines call off the war, shut down the Matrix and free Humanity on mass. The End.

Edit: Also, was it ever confirmed where Sarah Edmontons worked? If it turns out to be Ouroboros, I'd say thats pretty much confirmation Neos at the Colony...

Edit 2: A lot of credit goes to ijakings, my fellow wild speculator.

#36300479659 07/17/2008 17:35:10 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

I like the thining on this thread. But is there anything canonical (actual ingame material) that refers to this Oligarchy?

#36300479666 07/17/2008 18:02:09 Re:Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Shadow Griever wrote:

I like the thining on this thread. But is there anything canonical (actual ingame material) that refers to this Oligarchy?

Machine Critical Mission 10.3.3

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Archived Media

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#36300479668 07/17/2008 18:07:11 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Felt like this was worth putting up

(not my idea Phasmata gets all the credit.)

"Morpheus said he had to go away for awhile and everybody was going to think he was dead. I think Morpheus found the secret people. I think Cryptos knew too and he told the Morpheus simulacrum. That's why the Morpheus simulacrum started acting weird and collaborating with the Oracle's people. But that leaves several unanswered questions. If Morpheus faked his death, did he make a deal with the Merovingian or the Assassin? Maybe after Morpheus found out about the secret people, he understood why the machine programs wouldn't let him see Neo, so he decided to go live with them. Since he had caused enough trouble in the Matrix, the Matrix Trinity probably wanted him to go away anyways and the Merovingian used the Assassin to make it look like Morpheus got killed. Killing Morpheus shocked all the redpills and made them stop doing bad things to the Matrix, which is what the Trinity wanted. Nobody saw him get killed first-hand so it was never verified. But then the Assassin spoiled the ruse so the Trinity got the redpills to kill him too.

Morpheus probably went to live with the secret people in one of their colonies. He told them about Neo and more importantly, Smith, and Halborn wanted to investigate. If the BIP allowed Smith to write himself to humans and the Oracle created it, then the Oracle made Smith to counter Neo. AND the Oracle is the one that keeps Smith coming back to manipulate the humans. Anyways, Halborn was old and thought he could use the BIP to make himself a new body and that's probably why he started taking bluepills from the pods so he'd have test bodies to use. It would be nice to live forever, but then everybody would always try to make things bad for you because you're different."

blue jeans are very overrated.

#36300479669 07/17/2008 18:18:57 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Seems pretty similar to what we came up with Gami, which is good because its a sound theory. Although with all the twists and turns the MxO storyline takes a sound theorey isnt too sound at all.

Although I remember cloud saying to me that it was Neo that had the BIP. Im not sure on this as Im just incharge of all the Wild Speculation and putting 16 and 7 together and making 14.

If anyone has any confirmation on this can they please post?

I for one hope the Merv wasnt a part of Morpheus's faked death, Id love to do the merv crit if Morph and/or Neo Ever came back I have a feeling that would be an interesting crit. Just for Floods Comments and the Mervs emotes.

Also thanks LoTek for the Screenie.

#36300479672 07/17/2008 18:34:31 Re:Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

OS-ijakings wrote:

Although I remember cloud saying to me that it was Neo that had the BIP. Im not sure on this as Im just incharge of all the Wild Speculation and putting 16 and 7 together and making 14.

Its only been theorized that Neo was then given the BIP but nothing official has been said to confirm that.

#36300479762 07/18/2008 01:51:19 Re:Re:Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

GamiSB wrote:

OS-ijakings wrote:
Although I remember cloud saying to me that it was Neo that had the BIP. Im not sure on this as Im just incharge of all the Wild Speculation and putting 16 and 7 together and making 14.

Its only been theorized that Neo was then given the BIP but nothing official has been said to confirm that.

Yeah, nothing ever official, it was confirmed there was one other BIP, that Halborn already knew about it, and it'd already left the simulation and that the Oracle hade made it. We put the dots together and found Neo to be the strongest candidate (He'd already left, Halborn was always interested in Neo, The Oracle could've easily slipped into that cookie, or that sweet etc) but this was never confirmed with "canonical" material, no.

#36300479765 07/18/2008 02:11:47 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Also, from the latest Sentinal, regarding the Oracle's death, "Don't worry about your friend, dear, because the dead are never truly gone forever. They say that when we go to that final resting place, we're reunited with all of our lost loved ones. I'd like to believe that to be true. "

If that doesn't fit in all too well with the theory shes working with Neo and Morpheus from within the Colony I must be blind.

Also, from EPN's secret message, "but interesting elements seem to be working in our favor lately. Some are inexplicable, as if Neo himself were behind them. He guides us still as he guides many of you, even those who never knew him"

Neo behind recent inexplicable events, eh?

Annnnndd this, ding ding ding, we have a hatrick of hints to theory confirmation ^_^

#36300479915 07/18/2008 13:28:48 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Aren't we simply looking for a "saviour" with all this talk of Neo et al? We might have too many loose threads here, which are trying to be tied-in to one strory-line. I half expect to see mention of The Reverse Vampires in the style of that Simpsons episode.

All speculation is valid regardless. Good theories: let's keep them coming!

/bump

#36300479980 07/18/2008 16:10:05 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

The Neo bit is one of the more out there parts of our speculation.

But assuming Morph is in the Intruder colony (really big assumption right there) hes gonna need someone on the inside in order to get him in. I severly doubt that from the animosity that halborn has shown zion they are just going to open their gates and give him some cake which may or may not be a lie.

Hes going to need someone on the inside, probably as an Oligarch to sway enough influence to let him in. Possibly neo.

Mauser could also be working with them, which would sort of explain the ship blips EPN have been recording at the same time Mauser jacks out. We dont know how this stealth technology works on the Oligarch ships (Once again the stealth and internal Hover pads are something which came from cloud which i have no idea of its origin). But if its was a normal ship surely EPN wouldnt get just a blip when he jacks out, surely they would get a steady signal. Unless the jackout procedure interferes with the stealth and they can see the ship for just an instant.

Now whats all this mauser business leading to you ask? Well if mauser IS working with them, the same theory as with morpheus applies, how is he going to get in and their trust without someone already on the inside?

Ill admit its far fetched and theres not alot of evidence to back up this whole Morpheus and Neo thing apart from Sentinel hints and such.

We will all have to wait and see but If this idea could be distilled into a horse, it would be the one id back.

#36300479986 07/18/2008 16:31:40 Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Not to mention Mauser brought Override codes back into the Matrix with him, where'd he get a hold of that tech if not directly from someone inside the Colony? It could explain his ability to jack in as well, i mean, Halborn and Carlyne used wireless tech didn't they? Although thats kinda been tried into Wright's research before she "died", as well as the fact he isn't incompatible and wireframey.

#36300480021 07/18/2008 19:32:33 Re:Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

Coro wrote:

Aren't we simply looking for a "saviour" with all this talk of Neo et al? We might have too many loose threads here, which are trying to be tied-in to one strory-line. I half expect to see mention of The Reverse Vampires in the style of that Simpsons episode.
All speculation is valid regardless. Good theories: let's keep them coming!
/bump

I'm agreeing with Coro here. This is way to neat of a package being wrapped for so much info but it is also leaving out a few other things too. How the Oracle and the Morpheus sim fit into all this for instance. I think cloud you and Ijak are now reading in what you want to read in and may want to take a step back to get a view of the larger picture.

#36300480059 07/18/2008 20:29:00 Re:Oligarch Theories.

I have some questions for you all to think about. It may go towards the connection between the Oligarchy and the Machines.

Question one. When robots were destroyed and exiled after b1gg3r's trial, How did they form 01?

Question two. If the economy of the time of b1gg3r's trail heavily relied on a robotic workforce, who would stand to loose the most when robots were no longer part of that workforce?

Question three. Who Created the Darkstorm cloud over the earth, not used it but created it?

Question four. Where does the power for the machines come from?

Here are my theories Of these questions.

Question one and two together. I believe that corporations not wanting to loose the capability of a robotic workforce created 01 from the remnants of the destroyed and exiled robots.

Question three. We humans used the darkstorm cloud but a military contractor most likely created it. who better than than the very corporations that backed 01?

Questions four. If the above is true then the creators of the darkstorm cloud also know how to stop it or circumvent it. What if they have in a limit area? They could use solar power or other sources to provide more power to the matrix. thus ensuring their hold over the machines.

What do you all think?

#36300480116 07/19/2008 03:11:24 Re:Re:Re:Another Interesting Intruder Theory.

GamiSB wrote:

Coro wrote:
Aren't we simply looking for a "saviour" with all this talk of Neo et al? We might have too many loose threads here, which are trying to be tied-in to one strory-line. I half expect to see mention of The Reverse Vampires in the style of that Simpsons episode.
All speculation is valid regardless. Good theories: let's keep them coming!
/bump
I'm agreeing with Coro here. This is way to neat of a package being wrapped for so much info but it is also leaving out a few other things too. How the Oracle and the Morpheus sim fit into all this for instance. I think cloud you and Ijak are now reading in what you want to read in and may want to take a step back to get a view of the larger picture.

I think its the severe lack of any real answers for the last... I don't know, 2 chapters. Its got to the point where I have to start making up my own just to keep me sane and following the storyline with any real feeling of connection.

But yeah, the main reason I've started tying a lot of stuff together is from some initial conversation with Ija, while he was doing some archive missions no less, where we talked about Rare being clever enough to drop hints to greater story archs sometimes even chapters before anything really relavant to them comes to light. So i thought hey, what if he's pulled a Hideo and found a way to tie absolutely everything together in the most convoluted but nethertheless entertaining way imaginable?

Regardless, I think we can all pretty much agree we're just looking forward to getting some good concrete answers. Maybe come Chapter 12?

#36300480242 07/19/2008 14:14:18 Re:Oligarch Theories.

I get what you are doing cloud, and all power to your elbow. I also agree that it is human nature to look for nice tidy solutions, and that a Hideo-style finale would be great... But a finale also comes at an end; so may be not so good.

Theories prompt others to come up with their own. I have myself previously offered theories on these pages, which I have little belief in personally, nevermind trying to convince others! Hopefully, we can collectively come up with a variety of ideas and might jointly stumble on the truth.

All opinions should be respected and I apologise if my words were interpreted as any form of rebuff. We must be supportive of any theories offered here, as they will encourage others to provide more.

(/bump again)

#36300502254 09/23/2008 14:34:51 Re:Oligarch Theories.

More crazyness from Cloudja (me and ija fused xD)!

So Danielle Wright is back despite her physical body being destroyed (if Gray is to be believed) and not only that but shes using the Oligarch's crazy wireframe tech. Yet shes apparently not an Oligarch either. And I don't really think the Beirn theory of being purely code works well in her situation, where would she have been all this time? So lets say, for arguements sake, she was the one who invented the wireless human connection technology. The Oligarchs (having always been free-born, since they were never enslaved, due to their alliegence during the war) found out somehow (possibly through their dummy corporation, Ouroboros, which they used to keep an eye on things from inside the Matrix.) and go round her real world lab for a chat regarding them using it in return for them sharing their own knowledge of crazy stuff (Oligarchs are proven bargainers and DW is hardly one to turn down scientific knowledge). This is where she learns the Matrix is more than she'd assumed, not just a simulation for a power source but the very symbol of the "peace" agreement between the Oligarchs and the Machines. Her idea of a human controlled Matrix is flipped on it's head and she starts helping the Oligarchs. She then provides them with the wireless tech which later provided Halborn the ability to come looking for the BIP, but we'll get to that in a sec.

So is too far fetched to assume that with some sort of combination between the BIP, Wright's tech and the Oligarch tech (remember they were able to use human minds as data storage, maintaining the link to their eyes and ears in Ouroboros.) they could have created some way to transfer a person's being between physical bodies, much in the same way programs could swap shells? I mean, machine overwriting uses the same basic principle. Think about it, we already know there was another BIP floating around that had "already left the matrix" that Halborn apparently knew about. He saw what the other Oligarchs and Wright achieved using this BIP (possibly the "slave" Seraph was talking about and wanted to use it to transfer himself to a new body (remember he was super old and crippled or something or other), but they wouldn't let him. Hence his going a bit rogue and tearing the Matrix up. And when it came to Wright's assassination, she used the body transfer before the sentinels killed her (explaining the confirmed body). Only problem is she must've transferred to a freeborn body, hence her using the wireframe tech.

So whats the big deal with all this? Bringing back the dead. In the intial character outlines before MxO's launch they made the point of the mind still managing to survive moments after the death of the physical body (specifically speculating the return of Trinity). Well, lets say for instance the experimental device the Assassin witnessed on her body (specifically on the cortex jack) was making a digital "backup" of her mind. Now thats all well and good but without a body to house a mind, or more specifically a method of inserting this data back into physical form its not a lot of good (apart from research into emotion, hence Agent Pace (and more recently the valkyre chicks) being dirivitive of Trinity). So if Wright had really developed a body swapping using BIP technology she could theorectically bring back any backed up mind into physical existance. Think Neo, Trinity, Morpheus here. All it takes an image of their minds, a host body and a way of interfacing it (Biological Interface Program) and you're set.

/Speculate.

#36300502267 09/23/2008 15:03:22 Re:Re:Oligarch Theories.

cloudwolf wrote:

Well, lets say for instance the experimental device the Assassin witnessed on her body (specifically on the cortex jack) was making a digital "backup" of her mind.

Interesting, but I am at a loss about what the above is about. Was it something that came up during the assassin era?

#36300502271 09/23/2008 15:07:49 Re:Re:Re:Oligarch Theories.

Vinia wrote:

cloudwolf wrote:
Well, lets say for instance the experimental device the Assassin witnessed on her body (specifically on the cortex jack) was making a digital "backup" of her mind.
Interesting, but I am at a loss about what the above is about. Was it something that came up during the assassin era?

Yeah, it was part of the Assassin Memoirs. He was in charge of body disposal and liquidation but when it came to disposing of Trinity's body he saw a strange device on the back of her neck and was told to leave her be. This confused the Assassin and may well have been the starting point of his rampancy and subsequent exile.

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300502275 09/23/2008 15:11:30 Re:Oligarch Theories.

Ah, didn't know that, thanks!

#36300502303 09/23/2008 16:21:40 Re:Oligarch Theories.

Wha? I thought they just sprang out of the nothing from the mind of... oh wait nvm...

#36300503565 09/26/2008 18:22:26 Re:Oligarch Theories.

Let's say the Oligarchs have their own Simulation, like the Matrix. From there we can toss in the information that the current Machine pod system doesn't generate nearly as much power as previously supposed, and we have something of an economy of energy. The Machines could be trading the humans they work out of their pods to the Oligarchs in exchange for more energy.

But why would the Oligarchs want humans from the Matrix? How could they be resources? Halborn's outcry of "I've been waiting [for] centuries" might suggest (if he wasn't exagerating) that the Oligarchs' life spans are much greater than a normal human's - for a cost. Their reproductive systems are destroyed to make way for technology that keeps them alive. Then again, the Oligarchs might not be human at all, but something more Robin Williams-like; super advanced cybernetic humanoids.

I don't really know, it's all just some spur of the moment speculation derived from a short comment given to me by MetaLogic. I have got to do those crits!

#36300511325 10/17/2008 10:31:37 Re:Oligarch Theories.

The last Merv crit (ever oh noes!) has me thinking that the Oligarchs are at war with the Machines now over who controls the Matrix. Danielle said something along the lines of "the Matrix will be put under the control of those who power it."

#36300511328 10/17/2008 10:44:07 Re:Re:Oligarch Theories.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

The last Merv crit (ever oh noes!) has me thinking that the Oligarchs are at war with the Machines now over who controls the Matrix. Danielle said something along the lines of "the Matrix will be put under the control of those who power it."

That's always been her MO. Even before her "death" she was saying that.

#36300511334 10/17/2008 11:04:38 Re:Oligarch Theories.

I'm bored and don't know where exactly to put this, so I'll put it here. Mainly it concerns the BIP, but that's what a few Oligarchs seem to be after anyway.

Me and a few other people were talking, and it seems to us that the BIP since it can go into any RSI it wants, probably was the thing that gave The Ones their powers in the Matrix and the Real. Through the cycle that the Machines had(have?), they have the Prophecy that drives a portion of Zion to find the One. But, to make sure to attempt to keep The One/the rest of Zion from getting outside it's parameters, they have the Biological Interface Program in the One since they were a bluepill. Because the One's actions are so significant given their powers, coupled with the Machines' actions in the real and in The Matrix, the BIP in the One keeps Zion in check for a large period of time until the reset occurs.

This also brought up the memory of Halborn saying in a Crit something along the lines of "If only he hadn't of taken the other one." That probably means that there's not one but two Biological Interface Programs. Thinking on why, the BIP seems to be very random and not directly controllable by the Machines. So, they needed something to counteract the BIP, and what better way than with another one? So throughout every version of the Matrix, the two BIPs have kept each other in check so that neither Zion prospers nor the Machines lose their seat of power.

So the Oligarchs want it for whatever reasons. They've said themselves that they've lived for much longer than a typical human lifespanm, through whatever way they do it (BIP or some other help from the Machines perhaps). Halborn was very interested while searching for the BIP in the powers that The One had, and did not know that Neo could shut down sentinels in the Real; that the Machines had told him of Neo's powers but not fully. So, people are probably after the BIP because they think that if they had it that they could have the powers of The One, maybe even greater with their understanding of the BIP.

On another observational note, the BIP seems to have some similar properties as a system program dubbed by "The Joker" so-to-speak: "Bandersnatch". It can multiply seemingly an endless amount of times. It's possible that the BIP can examine another program and obtain the same powers/properties as the program, sort of assimilating them without consuming them; or it's possible the Machines/The Oracle programmed the BIP(s) with that ability.

#36300511527 10/18/2008 00:02:24 Re:Re:Re:Oligarch Theories.

GamiSB wrote:

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:
The last Merv crit (ever oh noes!) has me thinking that the Oligarchs are at war with the Machines now over who controls the Matrix. Danielle said something along the lines of "the Matrix will be put under the control of those who power it."

That's always been her MO. Even before her "death" she was saying that.

i hope she come back and kick Archived image unavailable: screenshot_6.html lol

#36300511576 10/18/2008 05:46:53 Re:Oligarch Theories.

Eval what you said about the BIP i think is right, i think the BIP program allows for the installation of the "one" program. You could control the machines and the matrix with that ya' know? Also my theory on the olgiarchy is that maybe they are the orginal creators of AI where they have built a failsafe that ultimatley never lets the machines question their authority, just them, not the rest of humanity.