Storyline rant

Oh Zippy, you're so impatient.

...you're so impatient.

Aww you 2 are nuts (wonder how zippy will work that...)

I think there's been some very good moments in the story, however at the same time I'd have to agree with the issues you've pulled up here.

I'll reply to the problem about Sarah Edmontons story... and I hope that the response remains.... the thing before was that Sarah Edmontons was a specific character that Paul Chadwick wanted created. So the thing about that is that Rarebit wouldn't have been able to do much with that storyline while Paul was working on the game incase he'd put Sarah there for a specific reason. That's equally why when the name Sarah Edmontons was mentioned again, it was her friend and you'll notice that when you read through it her friend hardly touches on how she knows Sarah and is careful about giving out certain bits of information...

Anyway, I guess it will be Rarebit's choice now if that's developed further or not.

I dont even think i could comprehend most of that...

The story has had its good points and one thing i have to say is about anome and "pew pew" Now i donno about you but i still think the best animation out there is the code eyes, maybe its patially because we know we wont see it unless berin shows his ugly mug. On top of that, meatwad... I dont know about you but the most enjoyable event i ever had was chasing Anome around downtown on vector. As shite as lazers etc is it made for a great in game event and for that it doesnt matter that its lazers (:

Sarah: The character was created and mentioned and we havent heard of her since. Now lin the movies clues to the end plot twist are shown throughout the film. As this story is as you said continuous story plot clues are given constantly... Unfortunatly not as often any more since events tend to be created in a short view point in the future. But i guess all we can do it wait for it to be resolved sometime in the future.

Reinsertion: Ouch...that has to be the worst plot twist ever. Now... i dont know where it came from... but can we point the finger at someone? ...more importantly, should we? As far as RolePlaying goes you play along with the story. As far as im aware there was reinsertions in the past matrix storyline, yet not anymore? The question i ask is really you can't include yourself as anything much different than what your told you should.

According to the matrix storyline, we are all redpills. You choose to create a different or unique background story you have to be aware of EVERY detail of the story and to do that is impossible. I mean ok its not like you shouldnt RolePlay but you must be able to accept consequences of an evolving story especially if your background is based on a branch of the Giant tree we call the Matrix Universe. Ofcourse i didnt effect me but thats partially because i tend to stick small when it comes to created characters.

Reinsertion: Ouch...that has to be the worst plot twist ever. Now... i dont know where it came from... but can we point the finger at someone? ...more importantly, should we? As far as RolePlaying goes you play along with the story. As far as im aware there was reinsertions in the past matrix storyline, yet not anymore? The question i ask is really you can't include yourself as anything much different than what your told you should.

According to the matrix storyline, we are all redpills. You choose to create a different or unique background story you have to be aware of EVERY detail of the story and to do that is impossible. I mean ok its not like you shouldnt RolePlay but you must be able to accept consequences of an evolving story especially if your background is based on a branch of the Giant tree we call the Matrix Universe. Ofcourse i didnt effect me but thats partially because i tend to stick small when it comes to created characters.

This is, I admit, a sticking point... it did interfere with a lot of peoples RP but, for someone like myself who has watched the movies, the animatrix, played the games (not read the comics or graphic stories, perhaps I should) All I 'know' is that reinsertion is talked about but never shown. Perhaps it should have continued as one of those aspects that wasn't focused on, then again the deeper you go the more you find out, doesn't mean you'll like the truth. As you said you need to play along with the storyline and with this story what you 'know' may not necessarily be correct.

Danger_Frog1471 wrote:

Reinsertion: Ouch...that has to be the worst plot twist ever. Now... i dont know where it came from... but can we point the finger at someone? ...more importantly, should we? As far as RolePlaying goes you play along with the story. As far as im aware there was reinsertions in the past matrix storyline, yet not anymore? The question i ask is really you can't include yourself as anything much different than what your told you should.

According to the matrix storyline, we are all redpills. You choose to create a different or unique background story you have to be aware of EVERY detail of the story and to do that is impossible. I mean ok its not like you shouldnt RolePlay but you must be able to accept consequences of an evolving story especially if your background is based on a branch of the Giant tree we call the Matrix Universe. Ofcourse i didnt effect me but thats partially because i tend to stick small when it comes to created characters.

This is, I admit, a sticking point... it did interfere with a lot of peoples RP but, for someone like myself who has watched the movies, the animatrix, played the games (not read the comics or graphic stories, perhaps I should) All I 'know' is that reinsertion is talked about but never shown. Perhaps it should have continued as one of those aspects that wasn't focused on, then again the deeper you go the more you find out, doesn't mean you'll like the truth. As you said you need to play along with the storyline and with this story what you 'know' may not necessarily be correct.

It's shown in the Matrix comics, which the canon of was never brought into question until MxO contradicted it.  In my own RP, reinsertion's possible and the fact that Gray said it isn't is just another Machine lie.  I don't really consider MxO canon, though.  The storyline's more like an elaborate fan fiction than it is an extension of the Matrix.

Alright, here's my buck o' five on why the MxO storyline is looked down upon or loses the community interest at points. Please realize this is a criticism and is not intended to be a flame of any sort, but rather a guideline of what I think could be changed to better retain a playerbase interested in the storyline.

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction. Yeah, it was earth-shattering when Morpheus, a well-established character from the movies was felled by the bullet of a Masked Assassin who then went loco and was hunted down by all three organizations for no good reason (but I'll get to that later). However, it was not earth-shattering when Anome died, because he really had no character depth. He was that arrogant sumbitch from Zion that, much like the Assassin, went crazy and was wanted dead by everybody. Same with the General before his defeat. He was the cocky arrogant sumbitch who had lots of Sentinel soldiers and wanted to destroy the Matrix for no good reason. See a pattern? Now, look at Halborn and Carlyne... Cocky arrogant sumbitches who don't give a *CENSORED* about the Matrix, are pursuing the Oracle and, in a result, making everyone want to kill them. It's tiresome, and, as we saw with Anome, no one really cared when he died. It was like "Oh, he's dead now? Thanks." And really, if you want an even more prime example, look at Danielle Wright. That was a waste of a chapter in my eyes. Furthermore, there's the Apothecary, who lasted for what, a week?

This is the problem that we've run into since the second Matrix movie. Too many new characters without enough background with too many new powers. It gets the audience lost, especially when they already have a perfectly sizeable and suitable cast of characters in front of them. (I know the first time I saw Reloaded I went "Wait, who the hell are all of these vampire and ghosty people and the french dude? On top of that, why is Smith alive and why can he clone himself. Furthermore, who's the asian guy protecting the Oracle all of a sudden? Didn't she used to have an apartment with little kids who bent spoons?) Surely exceptions can be made in the way of Cryptos, Veil, Kid (well, he was already in the movies), Shimada, Gray, Pace, Malphas, Ookami, and even Colt. The Effectuator's stretching it, but I think we can deal with him, too. That's widening the stage. But your Anomes, Unlimits, Halborns, and Carlynes... They don't do anything for the audience.

Motivation, or the lack thereof. Often there's no real motivation behind an organization's jump to hostilities with some entity, or, in many cases, that entity's jump to hostilities with everyone else. With the Assassin, Zion had cause to want him dead because of the assassination of Morpheus. The Machines, to a lesser degree, had justification due to the termination of Skinner and support for Zion (though, really, I think this would have been better painted as a feint - "Oh we care... But we're going to look over here and just not interfere".) Really, the only thing that brought them into the scenario was when the Assassin went loco and tried to destroy the Matrix, which was against their interests, though, really, there was no reason for the Assassin to go loco and try to destroy the Matrix. It was a deus ex machina to write him out, which was lame. Especially since the Merv justification was entirely manufactured as "OMG he randomly attacked Ookami! Killz him!" It's been this way for a while, too. Anome had a reason to try and take control the way he did, because he was a a crazy power-hungry bastard, and is sort of the exception, but the General, after having disappeared, returns out of the blue, trying to seek vengeance on Zion for not helping him out decides to try and destroy the whole Matrix? It just didn't make sense. And now we have two wireframe titans who are motivated by a BIP, for which I do give some sort of props to the storyline team there. However...

Supervillains don't listen to reason. Not ever. Halborn and Carylne will never stop to listen to an opinion. Neither did Anome. Neither did the General. I highly doubt they ever will. It's incredibly disinteresting being a part of a live event trying to gather information from a character who's predisposed to not giving out such information. And so, it makes interacting with these characters like talking to a brick.

Spontaneous Generation. I kind of touched on this in the motivation section, but really, most of MxO's villains show up out of the blue. The Effectuator has simply always been. Anome's some random nutbar that got appointed Niobe's controller. The General disappears for a while (why?) then reappears out of nowhere (also why? Just random chaos? I totally didn't buy it). Halborn and Carlyne, I guess we're still seeing, but honestly, it's taking too long, and I, at least, am losing interest.

Plot Mechanics that kill player RP. Read: Reinsertion. I honestly don't have a problem with there being no such procedure as reinsertion. However, the problem lies in that there has been no explanation of what happened to people who had been "reinserted." I had a blast with a semi-player RP in where I convinced Festaneve, a Cypherite member of LESIG, to get himself reinserted (and in, turn, write his character out). A big thank you goes out to him wherever he is now for letting me have such an influence on his character. I have always wondered, with the advent of reinsertion being a lie, what has happened to his character. If it were simply explained in a timely manner what really happened to those reinserted, I think there would've been far less disapproval of this mechanic. The same happened with Tick Tock's 1999 explanation, wherein afterward falacies were noticed by the playerbase but not acknowledged by the storyline. All that would've needed to happen would've been a return appearance by Tick Tock to clear that up by talking to another player, but there's this sort of... Stubbornness I've noticed on the development side to concede canonical defeat in the form of rephrasing or reorganizing certain concepts. It's very, very frustrating, and I think it would mean a lot to the players if sometimes concessions were made.

Hey you, look! Over there! The distraction principle. THIS IS NOT A GOOD PLOT DEVICE EVER. And yet, it happens all the time in MxO. Morpheus and Zion want the body of Neo returned to them. Suddenly Morpheus gets assassinated and Niobe declares war on the Merovingian. Result? Everyone has forgotten about Neo's body. Anome fries Niobe out of the blue, Niobe is quite randomly saved by the Merovingian. Result? Looks like the war on the Merv's over. The Machines ask for access to Zion's mainframe, Zion in return asks for access to the Machine mainframe. Tensions heighten. But OUT OF NOWHERE the General reappears and wreaks havoc on the Mega City. A war starts, suddenly this wireframe guy shows up and the Machines retreat. This makes the story appear unrealistic and makes its progression illogical in the eyes of the audience. What we really need is a focus more on the main conflict between Zion and the Machines (which extends out into Cypherites and EPN as well) without massive, generally unrelated, side stories getting in the way all of the time. MxO has had a sidestory mechanism built in since its inception, and that is the Merovingian storyline. Anything further is excessive. Yes, this includes Blue Sky which was another random organization of calamatous intent with no background that vanished as soon as it came that I've yet to mention.

And now a man who will fake his own death. Too many characters from MxO die only to come back a month later or so. Even Morpheus's death is hollow in that there is a simulacrum in his image roaming the streets now. Don't get me wrong, the initial idea of the simulacrum was good - it played along with many people's hopes and Morpheus's words far earlier in the storyline. But when it was revealed that it was a sim, I really think it would've been better for the story if it had terminated itself upon request (the only thing this would have countered would have been the signal locks on veteran operatives - which could have been rewritten to after the fall of Zion when Lock encountered machines. They would have kidnapped him and used his brain signal then, which makes more sense than an imposter Morpheus to me...). But following Morpheus, Niobe should have been dead (pew pew lazhurs and a construct cop out), followed by Searph (who apparently became aquaman by way of cheat vials - an extrapolation of an already hated chapter), Cryptos (I still don't buy Veil letting him be leader following his memory restoration - it would have been perfectly within her nature to murder his *CENSORED* in cold blood), and recently, Agent Gray and Hypatia among others I'm simply not recalling. I would have liked it if Lock died, too, but I can believe his survival for all of the others who died trying to save him. Feigned deaths cheapen the story because we come to expect death to be far less than permanent whenever somebody gets hit with a bullet, or even has their jack pulled now.

Sit down, let's have a chat. The storyline progresses too slowly. Much of the cause of this is the number of insignificant events that happen on a regular basis. We don't need to have an event where Pace just talks to Machinsts, really. Nor do we need to have an event where organizational heads talk to a throwaway exile contact, give him whatever crap he needs for information, then proceed to destroy white puffballs and crackheads for an hour or so. That doesn't progress the storyline. With a more manageable sentinel in place of cinematics, it would be nice if the event for each day actually had an impact. For example, instead of having such meetings with Pace, the Machine organization would track down Halborn in the middle of his search for the BIP and either give him a lead, trying to get him away from some sort of residential area. Instead of simply stumbling upon accelerated exiles, Zion could have stumbled upon Halborn and began the initial questioning of who he was and what he wanted. Plot progression optimally would be revealed through each live event. By making each event contribute to plot progression, not only would they be far more interesting to the playerbase (honestly, there's no comparing giving a pair of commando goggles to some exile and fighting a swarm of accelerated exiles to seeing Seraph punch Cryptos and reveal that he's an overwrite - it's an imbalance), but chapters could move along more quickly, resulting in far less slows and stops which lose players.

I'm sure there's more that I could add to this, but that's all I feel I need to write for now... And I really do hope that with Rarebit completely and entirely at the helm, that some of these concerns will be addressed, changed, or circumvented in the future. Or that, at the very least, they are not taken lightly or disregarded.

There's nothing terribly wrong with the pacing of the story.  I think it comes down to players being bored inbetween advancements.  You have to consider that as an MMO, MxO is meant to go on for a long time, years...maybe even a decade.  Therefore they can't throw everything out there just to keep us busy.  Things must be drawn out. 

It's irritating, believe me, I understand, but it's necessary.  In regards to some things being poorly written...yeah, some things seemed a bit odd.  Nothing is ever perfect.  Personally I was most disappointed in how many of the good story elements were just dropped during the SOE/Lith transition.  I understand the reasoning but can't help but still feel miffed about it all.

Personally, I think that if we had more than just one developer and his merry team of volunteers progressing the storyline, then we'd be drenched in much more than we are now.  Maybe now that SOE isn't fitting such a bill for Chadwick they can hire out some more help. :S

Very well said, Neoteny.

We need to get rid of this villain of the week idea.  I, as a player and as a character, am wholly disinterested in Halborn and Carlyne.  There is a -war- going on.  Why is Zion dropping everything to investigate these two jokers?  Why are we not focusing on the war and taking advantage of the fact that these two jokers have the Machines distracted.

It's frustrating.

Almost as frustrating as when the organization's leaders do something that is very much against popular opinion of the org as a whole.  The players' feelings towards an action need to be taken into consideration...  if for any other reason just to make us feel like we're involved and have an impact on the story.  Zion working with the General in chapter 3 is a perfect example of this.  The entire community had been made aware of the General's relation to the LED Agents, proof was given showing the Commandos were sentinel programs MONTHS, if not a year before it was revealed by Pace...  and yet Zion still agreed to work with him?  That's one of the reasons I left Zion way back.  My faction did months of work pulling information together about the General.  When he showed up with his commandos, all the information we had gathered was sent to Niobe...  old clippings from the Sentinel, coordinates showing every helipad location in Downtown, etc...  and we basically got the cold shoulder and told that Niobe knows what's she's doing.

The storyline needs to be somewhat flexible in this regard.  It's like Neoteny said...  talking to storyline characters now feels like talking to a brick wall.  They're so stubborn in their desicions, which leaves us, the players, feel like spectators instead of movers and shakers.

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

MetaLogic wrote:

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p

Rarebit wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p

Naaa that was the Twins. Smith spawned all 3 films he was the major protagonist (like Lex Luthor and Superman), the twins were what you could call villain of the week, and should have never been brought back IMO. Cool that they are back, but totaly contradicts with the films.

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction. Yeah, it was earth-shattering when Morpheus, a well-established character from the movies was felled by the bullet of a Masked Assassin who then went loco and was hunted down by all three organizations for no good reason (but I'll get to that later). However, it was not earth-shattering when Anome died, because he really had no character depth. He was that arrogant sumbitch from Zion that, much like the Assassin, went crazy and was wanted dead by everybody. Same with the General before his defeat. He was the cocky arrogant sumbitch who had lots of Sentinel soldiers and wanted to destroy the Matrix for no good reason. See a pattern? Now, look at Halborn and Carlyne... Cocky arrogant sumbitches who don't give a *CENSORED* about the Matrix, are pursuing the Oracle and, in a result, making everyone want to kill them. It's tiresome, and, as we saw with Anome, no one really cared when he died. It was like "Oh, he's dead now? Thanks." And really, if you want an even more prime example, look at Danielle Wright. That was a waste of a chapter in my eyes. Furthermore, there's the Apothecary, who lasted for what, a week?

odj wrote:

Rarebit wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p

Naaa that was the Twins. Smith spawned all 3 films he was the major protagonist (like Lex Luthor and Superman), the twins were what you could call villain of the week, and should have never been brought back IMO. Cool that they are back, but totaly contradicts with the films.

HAHAHA WAT

O LAWD

The General was a *CENSORED* cool bad guy.

It seemed as if almost every event we had, he had his hands in.  Just as Smith was the main antagonist in the movies, the General should have been the main antagonist (and has been, for the most part) of MxO.

He and Veil are definitely my two favorite "bad guys".  BTW, I liked the Cypherites much better when they were a mysterious group of masked men and women.

Some very good points/emotions touched upon in the original post.

I'm just hoping that the sentinel can pull things together.  The reinsertion was a lie thing is brilliant.  How many things in mxo have really changed how you watched the films?  They would tell Cypher whatever he wanted to hear.  I like it because it logically makes sense.  Once awakened to the truth, it is impossible to forget.  The 1999 thing to me is a different story.  It defies logic.  The Machines had no other way to keep the technology from advancing too much?  Yet, at the same time it adds another layer of creepiness.  If they can lie to the mind that well, what else are they capable of?

What I want to see is more things ingame to reflect what is going on in the story.  In this chapter, we could have accelerated or whatever enemies all around the city or at least in certain areas, not just when an event is happening.  The sentinel would have warnings of unusual gang activity and large outbreaks of violence in those areas.  They would tell the blue pills to avoid it at all costs.

Bring the story to life.

Aww you 2 are nuts (wonder how zippy will work that...)

I think there's been some very good moments in the story, however at the same time I'd have to agree with the issues you've pulled up here.

I'll reply to the problem about Sarah Edmontons story... and I hope that the response remains.... the thing before was that Sarah Edmontons was a specific character that Paul Chadwick wanted created. So the thing about that is that Rarebit wouldn't have been able to do much with that storyline while Paul was working on the game incase he'd put Sarah there for a specific reason. That's equally why when the name Sarah Edmontons was mentioned again, it was her friend and you'll notice that when you read through it her friend hardly touches on how she knows Sarah and is careful about giving out certain bits of information...

Anyway, I guess it will be Rarebit's choice now if that's developed further or not.

I dont even think i could comprehend most of that...

The story has had its good points and one thing i have to say is about anome and "pew pew" Now i donno about you but i still think the best animation out there is the code eyes, maybe its patially because we know we wont see it unless berin shows his ugly mug. On top of that, meatwad... I dont know about you but the most enjoyable event i ever had was chasing Anome around downtown on vector. As shite as lazers etc is it made for a great in game event and for that it doesnt matter that its lazers (:

Sarah: The character was created and mentioned and we havent heard of her since. Now lin the movies clues to the end plot twist are shown throughout the film. As this story is as you said continuous story plot clues are given constantly... Unfortunatly not as often any more since events tend to be created in a short view point in the future. But i guess all we can do it wait for it to be resolved sometime in the future.

Reinsertion: Ouch...that has to be the worst plot twist ever. Now... i dont know where it came from... but can we point the finger at someone? ...more importantly, should we? As far as RolePlaying goes you play along with the story. As far as im aware there was reinsertions in the past matrix storyline, yet not anymore? The question i ask is really you can't include yourself as anything much different than what your told you should.

According to the matrix storyline, we are all redpills. You choose to create a different or unique background story you have to be aware of EVERY detail of the story and to do that is impossible. I mean ok its not like you shouldnt RolePlay but you must be able to accept consequences of an evolving story especially if your background is based on a branch of the Giant tree we call the Matrix Universe. Ofcourse i didnt effect me but thats partially because i tend to stick small when it comes to created characters.

It's shown in the Matrix comics, which the canon of was never brought into question until MxO contradicted it.  In my own RP, reinsertion's possible and the fact that Gray said it isn't is just another Machine lie.  I don't really consider MxO canon, though.  The storyline's more like an elaborate fan fiction than it is an extension of the Matrix.

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction.

My issue with that is that there's no main deaths in the storyline anymore. I'll tell you, some of the minor deaths could have at least had a bigger impact on the game. For example, suppose Flood really fell for the Apothecary? Or what will the Merv do without the Trainman?

That brings me to another rant: Love. Remember when Agent Pace had a crush on NightTrace and later Ghost? Obviously, for NightTrace nothing would be expected to happen =p, but there's always that little spark between the Agent and the Human. Niobe loved Morpheus. I would think the Merovingian would still be on her death list even after saving her life.

As far as I'm concerned, the Effectuator's the perfect character for a person like Rarebit. I mean, no offense, but I've noticed that Rarebit falls into the category of a person who is affected personally, even a little, by something someone says to him IC. I'm not saying he's a bad actor, no, that's what makes good actors, the ability to get into your character so much that you share their feelings. If we had just one person assigned to LET to split the workload with Rarebit, we might not get so many abrupt /ignores or moody developers immediately after an Event.

Supervillains don't listen to reason. Not ever.

That's a Script issue. I never did like Scripted Events. I know Rarebit has to follow a guideline, but a little improv or flexibility in reaction to things players do during events - example again, NightTrace and Pace's crush. I liked that little bit.

Spontaneous Generation.

I disagree, Anome had some good introduction and foreshadowing leading up to his revolution. The General, well, I can't really remember everything about his return, so I can't say about that. My skepticism of the Wireframed Man I think I made clear enough. ;)

Hey you, look! Over there!

Agreed. The main concept of a new Story Arc in MxO is "Whaaat a tweest! Forget what we were doing just now, concentrate on that!" The exception to that is the end of Unlimit, in the critical mission where you had to finish off the last bunch. That was a nice end.

And now a man who will fake his own death. Niobe should have been dead (pew pew lazhurs and a construct cop out), followed by Searph (who apparently became aquaman by way of cheat vials - an extrapolation of an already hated chapter), Cryptos (I still don't buy Veil letting him be leader following his memory restoration - it would have been perfectly within her nature to murder his *CENSORED* in cold blood), and recently, Agent Gray and Hypatia among others I'm simply not recalling. I would have liked it if Lock died, too, but I can believe his survival for all of the others who died trying to save him. Feigned deaths cheapen the story because we come to expect death to be far less than permanent whenever somebody gets hit with a bullet, or even has their jack pulled now.

No, not Niobe, if she had died by Anome it would have been very cheap and I'd be complaining about it now. But yes, major character death was brought to us by Morpheus and ironically taken away by the very same ghost.

Sit down, let's have a chat. 

A good ol' chat session between players and a LE character (or group of characters *eyes Agent Griffin*) would likely be a good event. Plus, it would give Rarebit himself an opportunity to practice or flesh out each Org Hero's unique style of being. I must say that in my opinion, Rarebit is very good at playing a character (see above). I never think of Agent Gray as "Rarebit as Agent Gray."

I'm sure there's more that I could add to this, but that's all I feel I need to write for now... And I really do hope that with Rarebit completely and entirely at the helm, that some of these concerns will be addressed, changed, or circumvented in the future. Or that, at the very least, they are not taken lightly or disregarded.

Oh, yes, that's what I like about Rarebit being totally in charge now. He's very open to ideas and how to kick said ideas in the nuts. I mean, implement them. ;) I kid, I kid. *hides from Rarebit's meatwad*

We're all impatient for the most part anymore, insinuating that we should just keep waiting isn't going to fix that. You could ask Void how long every single conversation we've had has made reference to the fact that we're just waiting for change.

And Zippy, you just put everything I've thought lately out there with 300x less swearing, so thanks. But do watch out, a couple...dozen more threads like this and you'll be labeled Excessively Negative and the Devs won't speak to you anymore. heh.

Some of the storyline elements I have found less than satisfactory, but you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

I haven't read all your post yet 'cos I'm in a hurry, but...

I have to disagree regarding the General. He's been around right from the start (or thereabouts), mucking around in the background and bringing a well needed sense of mystery to MxO. It's taken ages to track him down and get rid of him, and his downfall was brought on by a multi pronged attack that I don't think has happened with any other enemy, save perhaps the Assassin. Of course, after he was defeated he's become little more than a joke, but before that he definitely stood out from the other badguys.

I agree with what you're saying about all the other badguys though. Oh, except for the fact that Danielle Wright's not dead. >_>

Oh, no, I agree. He's one of the greater MxO characters with a good deal of backstory. The problem came about in the fact that he disappeared for quite a while, without a word, only to return an angry somebitch who wanted to destroy the Matrix for no good reason. Logical character progression was essentially put on the back burner, only to be seen again (in a reduced capacity) when he was thwarted. I do love the reluctance, arrogance, and lip we still see out of him in Merv live events. But for the chapter, he was a supervillain with all of the hallmarks (everyone trying to kill him, random malicious intent [i.e. no real motivation], an army of faceless goons, etc.).

If Danielle Wright's not dead, I'll be pissed, because she'll be a part of the And now a man who will fake his own death category, which is also overplayed.

Rarebit wrote:

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p

Well, Rare, if we're looking at it that way, the movies only spanned one week and I'll be damned if Smith didn't kill the interest of quite a few people who had gone to see the original Matrix. But I'm sure if they had made trilogies upon trilogies of new movies with new supervillains, there would be an exponential decrease in the number of tickets to such movies sold. And that's very much the case here. I think most people rather enjoyed the Assassin chapter, and even his death. But when forces emerged after that event and carried their plans out in the exact same pattern, it lost community interest. And in the future, I would estimate that it will continue to do so (as it's already happened multiple times). That's just the way it seems to be. Supervillainy has gotten repetative, and the majority of the community would tell you that their interest lies far more in how their organizationas are dealing with the war (and are quite miffed that most are ignoring it).

Rarebit wrote:

...you're so impatient.

...there is cool stuffs coming with the story soon plz?

odj wrote:

Rarebit wrote:

...you're so impatient.

...there is cool stuffs coming with the story soon plz?

Dunno. How good are you at hovercraft battles?

MetaLogic wrote:

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p

odj wrote:

Rarebit wrote:

...you're so impatient.

...there is cool stuffs coming with the story soon plz?

Dunno. How good are you at hovercraft battles?

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction. Yeah, it was earth-shattering when Morpheus, a well-established character from the movies was felled by the bullet of a Masked Assassin who then went loco and was hunted down by all three organizations for no good reason (but I'll get to that later). However, it was not earth-shattering when Anome died, because he really had no character depth. He was that arrogant sumbitch from Zion that, much like the Assassin, went crazy and was wanted dead by everybody.

Neoteny wrote:

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction. Yeah, it was earth-shattering when Morpheus, a well-established character from the movies was felled by the bullet of a Masked Assassin who then went loco and was hunted down by all three organizations for no good reason (but I'll get to that later). However, it was not earth-shattering when Anome died, because he really had no character depth. He was that arrogant sumbitch from Zion that, much like the Assassin, went crazy and was wanted dead by everybody.

I'll read the rest of your post later, but I wanted to pick out this particular part. Anome and the following had no depth whatsoever because they weren't in the movie. We knew Morpheus, we knew his capabilities, his inner conscience. Anome was just.. introduced. Hell, how long have we had someone like Veil, yet we know not much about her?

I don't honestly think Rarebit is capable of creating character depth parallel to the amounts we hope for, having so many characters; but they are a necessary evil. I believe that was your point, right?

Roukan wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction. Yeah, it was earth-shattering when Morpheus, a well-established character from the movies was felled by the bullet of a Masked Assassin who then went loco and was hunted down by all three organizations for no good reason (but I'll get to that later). However, it was not earth-shattering when Anome died, because he really had no character depth. He was that arrogant sumbitch from Zion that, much like the Assassin, went crazy and was wanted dead by everybody.

I'll read the rest of your post later, but I wanted to pick out this particular part. Anome and the following had no depth whatsoever because they weren't in the movie. We knew Morpheus, we knew his capabilities, his inner conscience. Anome was just.. introduced. Hell, how long have we had someone like Veil, yet we know not much about her?

I don't honestly think Rarebit is capable of creating character depth parallel to the amounts we hope for, having so many characters; but they are a necessary evil. I believe that was your point, right?

I dunno.  I think it's  hard in any video game, especially an MMO, to create a lot of depth the characters that you aren't interacting with on a frequent basis.  With most of our badies, events involved trying to kill them or their minions.  This is where the Intruder badies seem to be heading, but over a long period of time and with lots of interaction with Hal and Carl, I'd say they have a fair amount of depth to them (and still mystery).  Perhaps over the last subchapter they've become a lot more "Rawr!  Fight the programs, fight the wireframe!" But I think that was intended as Carlyne's introduction forced Hal to get a lot more aggressive.  Some part of me greatly assumes though, that these characters are probably only going to be around for another chapter at the most...Maybe I'm wrong though, we'll see.

Good post by Neoteny. 

We need to be able to convince ourselves events matter, we need characters we care about, we need to feel our character has some part to play (however minor) and isnt just simply a dialogue foil.

We need both consequence and reward to drive us forward as players but most importantly as characters to give the story resonance. Organisations need identity, there needs to be both benefits and consequence to this choice of who you work for to emphasise this identity.

Charismatic and iconic characters from the movies need to be hyped up, not backgrounded, we already care about most of them, exploit that emotion. The set up from Revolutions was the perfect one for any mmo, take a leaf from that book and build on the foundations we have already had to accept, stop trying to reinvent the wheel as every reinvention undermines our ability to be convinced of the value of the current one.

Story and game are currently out of step and it is badly hurting both. We have content that make no sense in the context of the Matrix franchise and has no connection with story events, we have story events which are incredibly important that the game engine simply cannot credibly reflect. There has to be some consideration and conscession between these elements or the story collapses under a sea of ludicrous contradiction and the game becomes a souless run around.

----------

BTW I think the General and the manner in which we actually got the Sentinels into the Matrix for us to meet was the best thing the story has given us to date...the matrix we know yet presented in a manner that fits the way we interact with the game, an example of just how something like that should be done imo.

MetaLogic wrote:

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p

-Collbard- wrote:

Roukan wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Too many characters are written in AND too many are written out very soon after their introduction. Yeah, it was earth-shattering when Morpheus, a well-established character from the movies was felled by the bullet of a Masked Assassin who then went loco and was hunted down by all three organizations for no good reason (but I'll get to that later). However, it was not earth-shattering when Anome died, because he really had no character depth. He was that arrogant sumbitch from Zion that, much like the Assassin, went crazy and was wanted dead by everybody.

I'll read the rest of your post later, but I wanted to pick out this particular part. Anome and the following had no depth whatsoever because they weren't in the movie. We knew Morpheus, we knew his capabilities, his inner conscience. Anome was just.. introduced. Hell, how long have we had someone like Veil, yet we know not much about her?

I don't honestly think Rarebit is capable of creating character depth parallel to the amounts we hope for, having so many characters; but they are a necessary evil. I believe that was your point, right?

I dunno.  I think it's  hard in any video game, especially an MMO, to create a lot of depth the characters that you aren't interacting with on a frequent basis.  With most of our badies, events involved trying to kill them or their minions.  This is where the Intruder badies seem to be heading, but over a long period of time and with lots of interaction with Hal and Carl, I'd say they have a fair amount of depth to them (and still mystery).  Perhaps over the last subchapter they've become a lot more "Rawr!  Fight the programs, fight the wireframe!" But I think that was intended as Carlyne's introduction forced Hal to get a lot more aggressive.  Some part of me greatly assumes though, that these characters are probably only going to be around for another chapter at the most...Maybe I'm wrong though, we'll see.

One thing we need to recall(I'm just replying to this part in particular, I've not read the whole thread yet so forgive me if it's already been mentioned) is the missions in which Anome was sometimes the controller. I felt there was a fairly significant depth added to his character through those along with some of the further depth introduced during the Unlimit period. (Particularly, the stuff about his mother) Perhaps the stuff during the unlimit period came a little too close to his death for it to be taken in properly at the time, I dunno, but I think there is a fairly significant depth to Anomes character.

MetaLogic wrote:

Can we at least get rid of the "Villain of the week"?  Please Rarebit, let's have a more "natural" storyline, lets go back to the War Arc....

Smith wasn't a villain of the week in the movies? =p