Update 58 Discussion

Not a poster.  Would rather ljack-in than troll these forums.  At least for two years anyway.  This DataMine construct was a good idea gone way bad.  There should not even be a higher rate of $i per tap.  There should have only been new and different spawns, which if successfully handled would yield more $i or purple frags for an extremely rare super-tap, etc..

There was great demand for a FFA construct.  There was a popularity of the enhanced data-mining feature primarily because of the spawns and their drops.  These two ideas don't seem to have been combined in a well-thought out way.  Hardly anyone is actually even making an attempt to form a team and/or defeat the spawns in the FFA construct.  It seemed as if the thought behind associated updates of the ForceMultiplier abilities would suggest that there was an expectation that teams would be assembled to work on the data-mining spawns in the new construct.  This would coincide with the FFA design, prompting alliances to be formed in order to survive what was expected to be a chaotic environment in the Construct.  However, the predominant LO used in Datamine is a Shadow Master/Miner LO.  This has exactly the opposite effect.  It completely nerf the potential for chaos and motivation for teams in the new FFA environment.

I have a number of screenies of players bragging about how they have mined for $i100mil, $i150mil and even $i200mil per day.  Contrast this to the motivation for strategic development that was necessary to succeed in the various quests from earlier updates (Patcher's Headgear, defeat of Tengu Spawn, or even just surviving when the Reactors roamed all districts) and collect a modest $i sum to this point.  Now, any and all work put into previous quests, missions and sales on the marketplace can be earned by the singular simplistic and completely RP-devoid "strategy" of being a Master Shadow Miner in just a few hours!!  Creativity is gone.  The economy of the entire time of MxO has been nerfed.  The cat is out of the bag.  Literally $ibillions have been mined already, mostly by individuals, not teams.  What motivation will there be to work on strategies in the future if the $i gained by avoiding all interaction in Master Shadow allows previous-slackers to simply purchase everything with their earnings from largesse of the new Datamine?

Previous posts say that the mining rates might be nerfed to only 5x in a "few weeks" if the MxO economy seems to be in trouble.  How many billions will have been mined by then?  Then, it will take just 2 days to earn $i200mil.  Well, boo hoo!

papajustice wrote:

Great Patch... Shows you can add areas in the future. And alter current items that we were originally told it would be very hard to. My kudos to all involved. Its even brought players back from hiding which is very nice to see.

 However... 

To some the construct is amazing... to others a dread...  its great for the pvpers to go for cq points....  great for money IF your a lvl 45 and up or need to buy that CR1 item or headgear.  Also makes it nice to be able to go thru HL's without lag due to pvp.

But for people around 30 and under this new area is a pain in the *** and a waste of time. Can make more money running missions.  The equipment we have to use is nothing compared to whats available to lvl 45 and up. We dont get near as much info. Most I got was 112k. Average 75k. Not to mention every one is immediately after you as soon as u log in. You cant use MS like lvl 50's can. And there are only 2 zones where you can tap the nodes without it saying over your ability to tap. And yes there are zones Nice feature i might add on the map.

All in all a great patch keep more like this coming. But it sux that either I have to grin to 50 or miss out on making booku bucks like everyone else. I mean who wouldnt want to make 120 mil in a day of playing without the tedious task of the headgear quests. Especially since lvling to 50 is what costs you mioney not being lvl 50.

The point of the construct is to inject some more entertaining and varied ways of making info than standard missioning, hence the FFA pvp, countering the promise of great info with the threat of being ganked by anyone and everyone.

Either way at your level all you really need info for is to level abilities.  It's once you get to the higher levels, especially level 50 that you need bucketloads of info.  Between the price of the multitude of items we need, levelling other trees, maintaining our inventory and so on being a 50 is actually drastically more expensive than levelling up to 50.

Maybe its just me then. But I am already leveling other trees and buyng items for when I get to level 50. I already have over 6 trees lvled to 33 with most of them with the abs up to lvl 50 and I already am farming constructs to hell. I still have 11 pairs of ashencourte shades.  Cause you cant argue that at any time there can be item up for sale thats one hella deal to pass up.  Old players arent the only ones who want to buy items. I did save alot with faction members helping alot. Still costly to level.

And I did say the construct was a great addition. Even gave kudos for it.

But it gets to be a bore when you can only tap in 2 areas, Otherwise you get an above your level message. And the max u get is 112k. I have even got a 9k node.  And this is a all level construct but is aimed more towards level 50's. Construct should have said lvl 40-50.

And  I am in no hurry to miss out on the game just to get to a lvl.  

Mona wrote:

So like Rare " />

When shall we expect these changes to come into play? Is the $info nerf going to be at the server restart tomorrow.

Not tomorrow. Possibly when the Anniversary Event goes out, which I think is a few weeks before chapter 10.1 comes along. If necessary to SAVE THE ECONOMY! we may have to reduce $info payout before then, but eh until that happens, enjoy the fat data loot.

 cause I'm gonna be a member of the Filthy Billionaires Club soon and spend it on strippers in Westview!

Yup, no problem at all. 

Don't mind me, I'm just farming.

I for one am sick of always being flat broke in game, and not having a rediculous Faction Bank to dip into when I need something.

Anyone who says they want the info nerfed because of the economy is talking out of his/her arse, and just trying to keep themselves rich, and the poorer players poor.

Datamine pays off simply because the risks are higher, please DO NOT nerf the info!

Thanks.

Not a poster.  Would rather ljack-in than troll these forums.  At least for two years anyway.  This DataMine construct was a good idea gone way bad.  There should not even be a higher rate of $i per tap.  There should have only been new and different spawns, which if successfully handled would yield more $i or purple frags for an extremely rare super-tap, etc..

There was great demand for a FFA construct.  There was a popularity of the enhanced data-mining feature primarily because of the spawns and their drops.  These two ideas don't seem to have been combined in a well-thought out way.  Hardly anyone is actually even making an attempt to form a team and/or defeat the spawns in the FFA construct.  It seemed as if the thought behind associated updates of the ForceMultiplier abilities would suggest that there was an expectation that teams would be assembled to work on the data-mining spawns in the new construct.  This would coincide with the FFA design, prompting alliances to be formed in order to survive what was expected to be a chaotic environment in the Construct.  However, the predominant LO used in Datamine is a Shadow Master/Miner LO.  This has exactly the opposite effect.  It completely nerf the potential for chaos and motivation for teams in the new FFA environment.

I have a number of screenies of players bragging about how they have mined for $i100mil, $i150mil and even $i200mil per day.  Contrast this to the motivation for strategic development that was necessary to succeed in the various quests from earlier updates (Patcher's Headgear, defeat of Tengu Spawn, or even just surviving when the Reactors roamed all districts) and collect a modest $i sum to this point.  Now, any and all work put into previous quests, missions and sales on the marketplace can be earned by the singular simplistic and completely RP-devoid "strategy" of being a Master Shadow Miner in just a few hours!!  Creativity is gone.  The economy of the entire time of MxO has been nerfed.  The cat is out of the bag.  Literally $ibillions have been mined already, mostly by individuals, not teams.  What motivation will there be to work on strategies in the future if the $i gained by avoiding all interaction in Master Shadow allows previous-slackers to simply purchase everything with their earnings from largesse of the new Datamine?

Previous posts say that the mining rates might be nerfed to only 5x in a "few weeks" if the MxO economy seems to be in trouble.  How many billions will have been mined by then?  Then, it will take just 2 days to earn $i200mil.  Well, boo hoo!

See, my experience has been exactly the opposite of this. I have been on teams in Datamine where we tried to work together (keep in mind, it's so new, we are all still trying to work out the strategies) and I have seen teams working on spawns all over the place.

I went into Datamine last night with only the mining abs and the rest of my loadout up in the patcher tree. No Master Shadow because I personally detest it, and that was only after using it for one night (anyone wtb MS tree leveled?). I kept myself buffed, especially with the new and improved buffs, and when Deecodes and I tied up, I was able to throw a couple of debuffs, a couple of shotty rounds, hit my mobius and got the hell out of there (cause let's face it, no hybrid Data Miner lo is ever going to stand toe-to-toe for long against an MKT who knows what they are doing). After that, I stayed buffed, had a couple of snipers take pot shots at me and miss, and I was able to datamine until I was done for the night.

As far as the worry about everyone making "billions" off of this, well, I'm sorry I just can't agree with that concern. Sure, you might have a few people who don't have to work and can spend all day in there, mining away. But I doubt they are coming up with "billions" (plural) just yet. And if they do, so what? The majority of us can only farm for maybe a couple hours every night, and I can tell you from experience that that ain't gonna get anyone billions, unless they've found an exploit. Between evading ganks, finding good node clusters, and the failure rate, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that by working hard at it, one might be able to farm and average 5 million an hour. That's hardly going to break the economy.

Because, as I said in another post with regard to this bizarre fear of hurting the economy, people may try to jack up prices for sakuras and the like, but who's going to actually pay more for it today than they did last week? I'm not going to pay 50mil when I know it should only be 5 or 10 at the most and I think most people feel pretty much the same as I do.

The thought process was to create a FFA construct. But how to get people in there? Easy, pump up the data mining payout. Now you have the gankers (who choose the killing over the info) killing the miners (who are willing to take the risk due to the reward). Based on this, I'd say it was a success. If the info is nerfed down to the average amount you can get farming Downtown, with no chance of getting ganked, I dare say that will kill Datamine faster than anything else. Miners will stop going, which will leave only the pvp'ers to fight over the supertap. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Any long-term method of making more $info than there was previously will inflate the economy eventually, that's inevitable.

BUT 

I'm not too worried about people making x10 for 3 more weeks (until the Anniversary Event update). It will create a bit of an economic "bubble," but that'll work its way out of the system after a little time goes by.

Thank you.  Now, can that be the final word, people, or does the "OMG..Z...ZOMGZLOLZ... NONOTLOLZ...OMG...*CENSORED*, THE ECONOMY WILL KILL US ALL...OH GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD...AGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH." need to continue?

No?  Awesome.

I think "instant" means like, no timer, which 4 second interlock moves have?

Quote: Executing instant abilities while in the wrong style will now change styles and invoke the ability. This also fixes the problem with NPCs where sometimes their instant and delayed abilities wouldn't go off, which is especially noticeable in Nuker-types.

Not working in IL. Style still switches AFTER the win/lose calculation is done so karate bites the dust again....and the kung fu whores will keep running around using abs with bigger acc bonus...

Quote: Executing instant abilities while in the wrong style will now change styles and invoke the ability. This also fixes the problem with NPCs where sometimes their instant and delayed abilities wouldn't go off, which is especially noticeable in Nuker-types.

Not working in IL. Style still switches AFTER the win/lose calculation is done so karate bites the dust again....and the kung fu whores will keep running around using abs with bigger acc bonus...

Your reading to much into this Patch note. The fix doesn't address the scenario you are describing nor was it intended to.

The fix is intended to correct an order of operation problem that had the ability start to be used then cancelled when the style switched. In this case the style should switch then the ability invoked.

The problem you are expressing is another bug entirely.

The Leo wrote:

Quote: Executing instant abilities while in the wrong style will now change styles and invoke the ability. This also fixes the problem with NPCs where sometimes their instant and delayed abilities wouldn't go off, which is especially noticeable in Nuker-types.

Not working in IL. Style still switches AFTER the win/lose calculation is done so karate bites the dust again....and the kung fu whores will keep running around using abs with bigger acc bonus...

Your reading to much into this Patch note. The fix doesn't address the scenario you are describing nor was it intended to.

The fix is intended to correct an order of operation problem that had the ability start to be used then cancelled when the style switched. In this case the style should switch then the ability invoked.

The problem you are expressing is another bug entirely.

Any long-term method of making more $info than there was previously will inflate the economy eventually, that's inevitable.

Atem's probably on the money that it has to be more like around x3 base to remove serious inflation threat. At that rate, there's still incentive to try it solo (you can make x3 times the cash that you can missioning or tapping in the high level areas of DT), and even when you take a guard in with you, you still come out ahead, since you're both up for 150% payoff for time invested--if you're good at avoiding ganks.

That's probably what I'll end up going with, although if I do, then I'd put the say two "super taps" at x3, instead of just x2. That way, there's always the chance that if you go in there, you can make x9 for a while, but since it's limited to just a few people at a time (and possibly under heavy fire), that should put a pretty effective bottleneck on its damage to the overall economy.

One thing that I think is interesting about this FFA mining thing is that it actually benefits those who play in low-population hours more than those who play during US prime-time, since there's less competition for the area.

And there will be several more reasons to want to go in there besides the node tapping, at least...hmm...at least one of which should be along for update 59.

I'm not too worried about people making x10 for 3 more weeks (until the Anniversary Event update). It will create a bit of an economic "bubble," but that'll work its way out of the system after a little time goes by.

Any long-term method of making more $info than there was previously will inflate the economy eventually, that's inevitable.

Atem's probably on the money that it has to be more like around x3 base to remove serious inflation threat. At that rate, there's still incentive to try it solo (you can make x3 times the cash that you can missioning or tapping in the high level areas of DT), and even when you take a guard in with you, you still come out ahead, since you're both up for 150% payoff for time invested--if you're good at avoiding ganks.

That's probably what I'll end up going with, although if I do, then I'd put the say two "super taps" at x3, instead of just x2. That way, there's always the chance that if you go in there, you can make x9 for a while, but since it's limited to just a few people at a time (and possibly under heavy fire), that should put a pretty effective bottleneck on its damage to the overall economy.

One thing that I think is interesting about this FFA mining thing is that it actually benefits those who play in low-population hours more than those who play during US prime-time, since there's less competition for the area.

And there will be several more reasons to want to go in there besides the node tapping, at least...hmm...at least one of which should be along for update 59.

I'm not too worried about people making x10 for 3 more weeks (until the Anniversary Event update). It will create a bit of an economic "bubble," but that'll work its way out of the system after a little time goes by.

I like Datamine.  I like that when theres not many people on late at night,  I can farm easy info for a little while.  Then when I run across someone,  I can punt them and keep farming lol  And when theres alot of people on,  I can just hunt people or gank them if there are other Exploits logged on.  I think if alot of new npc drops and Boss drops are added into Datamine over time,  it will only get better. 

My main idea for datamine is this......BRING BACK THE ASSASSIN AND MAKE HIM THE BOSS OF DATAMINE!!!  Since its only a construct it wouldnt effect the storyline at all.  Make him the construct boss, and you also could have LET play his character  too.  How cool would it be to be farming info,  or busy ganking people, and all of a sudden the Assassin jumps infront of you and beguns kicking everyones *CENSORED*.  It was ALOT of fun back in the day when he would be around doin that - totally pwning everyone in sight.  And then when he dies,  he just comes back cuz hes the Datamine Boss. 

Anyways either that......... or let us wear our Assassin halloween masks in there, and we will do it ourselves lol

Players won't pvp in Datamine as long as they know there's a nerf coming. Once the nerf hits it'll be a dead zone, especially if you time the nerf with the Anniversary event.

Perhaps the Datamine info rate does need to be lowered. But the impact of nerfing it is going to have three times the impact you think it will because everyone's mining their *CENSORED* off knowing it's going to be nerfed. Interest in mining will drop significantly after it's nerfed and everyone already has a fat bankroll.

It would be better to leave it as it is and focus on making it more dangerous. More spawns would make it more dangerous. A roaming boss would make it more dangerous. High level node areas where hyperjump is not possible would make it more dangerous. I'm sure you could find other ways to make it more dangerous too.

Even as good as the info rate is, not everyone is in there. And if players knew it wasn't going to be nerfed, they'd be more laid back about it. As it is, the current rate IS what it takes to get players to go into Datamine regularly. But they're not going to pvp as long as they know it's too good to last.

MxO has no economy. That's a seperate problem. Any 50 who's been around for any length of time has info grow on them without trying because there's really not much to spend it on.

I make 10 million info an hour in Datamine. Drop that to 3 million info an hour and seriously, what's the point? I can make that datamining in Downtown where I can fight the spawns and not worry about getting ganked, yes, even on Vector.

Making a supertap that shines like the sun doesn't make it any more obvious that someone is datamining. Sure it's a bonus tool but it's not going to make lots of players go into Datamine to fight for it. Nor is it going to be the priority target of pvpr's who aren't there to datamine. Anyone using goggles is a pvp target in Datamine because of the weakened hybrid load it suggests.

And why is there no dataming bonus to XP? 

Yeah, that's something that needs to be addressed, not being able to rez reds is a bit harsh...

OIC you mean dying means something bad now?

Good.

Wow. Did PvP ever suck in there tonight. One hyper ftl. Sorry devs, but that was a total failure of an idea. Against a team that was balanced between MKT, hax, and snipers, I couldn't last more than two or three exchanges. Being able to last only 4 seconds in pvp sucks, especially when you have to crawl back into a construct.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Wow. Did PvP ever suck in there tonight. One hyper ftl. Sorry devs, but that was a total failure of an idea. Against a team that was balanced between MKT, hax, and snipers, I couldn't last more than two or three exchanges. Being able to last only 4 seconds in pvp sucks, especially when you have to crawl back into a construct.

Sorry, I'm going to have to agree with this one. One at a time is suicide, especially if you're one person fighting a zerg. Any two at a time or One Sheilded/Armored would have made so much more sense. Now Coders are virtually impossible to fight alone, since even someone on the outside with the accuracy of a blind 90 year old will hit. While some may argue that "You shouldn't be able to fight more than one person at a time, because that's generally how it works in real life!", I find that to be a complete load of garbage. It's a game, an outlet, and this pretty much trashes the PvP experience for anyone but the zerg.

I was sad when I found datamining exp isn't increased in Datamine.

Yes that is very bizarre, the one aspect of the mine that might tempt lowbies in, (itself providing the option for teams to protect a vulnerable 'other' denied????

As for the changes to hypers, it is also bizarre CR2 already favoured numbers to a crippling degree, this just makes it worse still. The rules of reality are completely irrelevent, many on one combat is inherent in the franchise, it is inherent in pve, it is inherent in every form of entertainment (flims tv movies etc etc), it was inherent in the old combat system with multi IL. 90% of pvp finds the numbers on each side unblanaced, in the interests of pvp the combat system has to offer some reasonable chance to the smaller side at any time.

One easy option is to leave the one hyper activation and increase the inherent resistences and defences in the awakend ability, decrease the addtional bonuses provided by the hypers (keeping the peak figures as per today etc) so that all characters are more inherently robust against different types of damage. Then make use of Multi fighting to actually encourage IL combat even when the odds are against you, if only to give you time to survive so you can roll out and escape.

Any long-term method of making more $info than there was previously will inflate the economy eventually, that's inevitable.

Atem's probably on the money that it has to be more like around x3 base to remove serious inflation threat. At that rate, there's still incentive to try it solo (you can make x3 times the cash that you can missioning or tapping in the high level areas of DT), and even when you take a guard in with you, you still come out ahead, since you're both up for 150% payoff for time invested--if you're good at avoiding ganks.

That's probably what I'll end up going with, although if I do, then I'd put the say two "super taps" at x3, instead of just x2. That way, there's always the chance that if you go in there, you can make x9 for a while, but since it's limited to just a few people at a time (and possibly under heavy fire), that should put a pretty effective bottleneck on its damage to the overall economy.

One thing that I think is interesting about this FFA mining thing is that it actually benefits those who play in low-population hours more than those who play during US prime-time, since there's less competition for the area.

And there will be several more reasons to want to go in there besides the node tapping, at least...hmm...at least one of which should be along for update 59.

I'm not too worried about people making x10 for 3 more weeks (until the Anniversary Event update). It will create a bit of an economic "bubble," but that'll work its way out of the system after a little time goes by.