Nvidia Geforce 8xxx series card issues on WinXP (Indoor performace issue)

Other other thread was locked as stated by the Mod so I am starting a new one

Dont post here unless you have something constructive to add to the discussion or it will simply be moved out of the topic.

The up shot here is Since the release of the Nvidia Geforce 8xxx series of video cards Matrix has experienced the persistant problem with Indoor performace in the extreme.

After testing by Rarebit and myself we came to the conclusion that when an object (door, npc, ect) comes into view while indoors the 8xxx series cards have issues rendering it and create a severe drop in performance while moving indoors.

This issue is only slightly offset if you use Vista with the 8xxx card. And as another thread states Vista has its own bag of issues with Matrix Online.

Rumor: It was reported the forum user, Marias, that some relief for Vista users may be in the works.

Status of issue: The remaining devs assigned to the project lack the necessary familiarity with the rendering engine to simply fix the problem. And it should be noted that no one outside of the current devs at SOE even knows anything about the code or engine design for MxO.

We have contacted Nvidia and Asked them to look into the problem as it does not occur with any later generations hardware. They have stated that the issue is on their list to investigate. Where on this list and how many issues are ahead of us is not known.

ATI Cards: There is some conflicting reports that the new HD series ATI cards are experiencing this problem also. This is being looked into at this time.

If there is anything to Update the community with we will.

Yeah, I have this problem. It's near impossible to do missions so levelling is out of the question. The majority of the live events have occurances indoors, which again, is nearly impossible to stand with about 3 fps. The only things you're able to do are the White Hallways (which for being indoors, surprising don't have any problems) constructs, and simply just standing outdoors. All I can say is I hope this is fixed as soon as possible, because it's ridiculous trying to play a game with 3 fps whenever I try to go indoors.

Ballak wrote:

Yeah, I have this problem. It's near impossible to do missions so levelling is out of the question. The majority of the live events have occurances indoors, which again, is nearly impossible to stand with about 3 fps. The only things you're able to do are the White Hallways (which for being indoors, surprising don't have any problems) constructs, and simply just standing outdoors. All I can say is I hope this is fixed as soon as possible, because it's ridiculous trying to play a game with 3 fps whenever I try to go indoors.

When you say White Hallways are you refering to the Elite Commando areas or the actual Org Areas?

9mmfu, you mention that an object coming into view may be the most likely cause.  And it reminded me of something...

Unlike textures, doors, NPCs & etc. perform actions.  In other words, they move and animate in some way.  Given what I've been reading lately, GPUs generally handle things like this, correct?

I'm thinking about how customers online who have PhysX processors have indicated that they are surprised to see increases in performance and framerate in games that are not specifically written for PhysX hardware--that it's almost as if the software knows what can be offloaded from the GPU to the PPU.

Example testimonials here

Any possibility the problem revolves around asking these objects to perform actions...which in turn gets poorly handled by the nVidia GPU?  I'm not even pointing the finger at nVidia on this one--maybe the rendering engine (is that Monolith's creation?) just asks nVidia to do something in a weird way (example of such behavior with HL2)

Do we have anybody here with a PhysX card and an 8X00 video card who can test it?

One possibly-irrelevant question:  do we have any idea if SLi makes a difference?  For instance, if someone has an 8800GT and gets 4fps indoors....does it go up to 6 or 8 with two 8800GTs in SLi?

Question. Can devs spawn specific objects, if so, would a dev be willing to take an hour or so to spawn specific objects with players indoors in a testing area to see what could cause it? I personally think it's those chairs, or possibly bluepills, but then the outside bluepills would affect us too, unless they're coded different, as we all can see them.

Rarebit and I did extensive testing by turning off various aspects of the game rending components and found that If a game object came into view or needed to be loaded for whatever reason (coming into view would be one of these) the client's performance was seriously effected.

However outside these same objects have no significant effect on the game client's performance.

The buildings around Mara District use to give me tons of lag but now I get next to none, but any other district is lag fest.

EDIT: What it seems to me is if I get a mission in an Office building type I get lots of lag, but if its in like an apartment I seem to do fine.

AlphaCoder does make a good point--SOE might consider even a marginal increase to the budget--I can't imagine it's razor-thin if the whole thing was dumped in SOE's laps by Warner Brothers.  Not my business, but I'd be surprised if MxO wasn't bought out at fire-sale prices.

Motorz and CrimsonKiller also bring up a possibility:  it's not like Monolith are gone forever and they had no idea what they were doing--is it against all odds to see if they could come onsite for a week?  Even if all they did was help train someone at SOE, you'd already be ahead of the game.

This is about dollars.  I can't imagine SOE would rather do without the revenue of its MXO players than allocate a much smaller portion of that money to making the product easier to manage.  When you weigh the number of hours your skeleton crew has to spend figuring out how stuff works, against the potential cost of, say, some short-term TLC from two Monolith techs, hopefully a good argument could be made for better resources.  I mean, we have your customer (LtCmdr_Tsusai) offering here to mail you their hardware if it would help...

I've got data miner levelled up to a point that I don't need to mission for a while.

I'll want to do more archive missions at some point so I can get the gucci fire/code stuff and my system suit, but not going to be doing any mishing while this lag issue is left unresolved.

I actually canceled my account because of this. My brother and I play MMO's together and I convinced him to try this out since I've played since launch. Unfortunately his Nvidia 8600 causes all kinds of massive lag for him and makes the game unbearable and unplayable. Therefore, we head back to CoX! I wanted to play this again and he wanted to play and like it really bad, but because of this issue 1 new player and an old timer ain't coming back anytime soon. Maybe I'll see you in Paragon 9mmfu! Shoot me a PM, maybe we're on the same server. " />

*Green codeview mode. On my machine with it running I have no indoor lag in any area that I know to experience it in. I have even grinded with it set to an infinite time setting and even though it was annoying, it worked great.

LtCmdr_Tsusai wrote:

*Green codeview mode. On my machine with it running I have no indoor lag in any area that I know to experience it in. I have even grinded with it set to an infinite time setting and even though it was annoying, it worked great.

I tried this the other night. It worked well in most areas but the building behind the Tabor W hardline still drove my machine to a screeching halt.

I have an ATI HD Pro 2600 card, and I have similar issues with indoor lag, but only at certain intervals.
The main time I get lag is when I first enter a new building after jacking in, OR just a new building that I hadn't been in during that current play session.
After running around the area and visiting the same-type structure numerous times (like during missions or such), the lag goes away, normally within 30-45 minutes. I guess it's during this time, the game just recycles the same textures when you enter the same-type structure.
I play with high detail, high shadows, and several of the advanced graphics sliders at high or max.
While it's not a solution, that's all I've noticed out of my card - just when first entering new buildings or entering after jacking in, I get massive, jump from this place to the other lag. I just ignore and it and go on, as after a while, it does smooth out.
That's just an observation on my part.

Yeah...office/professional workplace buildings suck.  Try at the more residential parts of Richland if you can.

I was under the impression that the problem was to do with rendering the outdoors first before the indoors when going through a door. That said i lowered the view distance when looking out the window and it drastically reduced the lag but i still have some because i cant stand having nothing but fog outside if im running past a window. Also ive heard it might be part of the HDR effects which i can believe because i killed the indoor lag in Vanguard when i switched off the HDR so it might be completely old coding for HDR making the new cards go haywire in the HDR coding pipeline. Im no pro but im sure that makes sense.

Plus the ATI cards that i have had multiple friends try out have worked perfectly on XP and Vista and i am getting a 3870 myself so im sure TonyJaa that you will have absolutely no problem on virtually any game brought out running on full specs on a 19" screen at 1440x900 if not a 1680x1050 22" screen but i wud also suggest going to www.tigerdirect.com and getting the HIS IceQ3 Turbo 3870 and getting 2 wud just be excellent. The core clock gets a 80Mhz boost from what i remeber if you get that version. Im getting this version.

~Please keep this discussion on-topic. - Alternity

I've lost many good friends and faction mates to this issue.  My Faction founder Beachhead was the first one to bring this issue to light.  And he was treated like * for it.  Sorry 9mmfu, Rarebit, and Virrago (I believe Raijinn was the Comm.Rep at the time) and gang - but you did treat him like * and skirted the issue and ignored it and blamed it all on his system settings for the longest time.  I still believe that the Dev team owes my guild-leader a massive apology.  Just for treating him so badly all this time despite his repeated attempts to inform and self-repair the problem on his end.  It may be a moot point now ... but Beachhead is still waiting for an apology ... I think it would just be a common courtesy to give him one.  He brought up this thing over a year ago when Vista and the cards where released and ppl started getting it.  And he was treated like *.  And still feels like the Dev team treats him like * on the lag issue and doesn't give a flying rat's *.  And now this a total community blow-up - which was a long time coming.  And will untill it's fixed.   

Many ppl have left, and new ppl with 8000 series cards who get buddy-keys will try the game and run into this problem and not buy the game.  Simple economics and customer services 101.  I also live with the same problems.  And have put up with them as long as my faction leader Beachhead has had them.  I have an 8600gts Nvidia card.  What is wierd is 8600 has no indoor lag in Vista, but does so on XP.  None of my other games have this issue or have had this issue. And I am not going to downgrade my system for one sloppy game.  It is only this game.  So ... all roads point to * code game design.  The blank screen problem, texture tweekage, all of that * is only MxO specific.  But I have known this from the start so I am tired of being mad about it. 

Just give Mr. Beachhead his formal apology that he is owed and work on fixing it.  If the new area still has all these problems .... how can we enjoy it?  Answer me that ...   If the devs think this is terrible screaming, wait till that new package is put out.  Once ppl realize they can't play in it do to the lag issues ... it will get a whole lot worse.

I'm past being mad.  I am numb to the pain.  Actually, that is just one of the reasons I am crying in my current signature. 

I will add, and news for the Devs if they have not heard (stop ignoring me for once Rarebit and listen!!).  Vista service Pak 1 is coming out this late spring to the start of summer.  Some ppl w/ friends who have tested some beta action say that MANY graphical glitches where fixed.  However that is just rumor.  I reported this as a news brief a little bit ago ... why to the Devs ignore anything I have to say so much?  Anyway - VISTA SERVICE PAK 1 coming out soon.  Vista users with Nvidia I highly suggest we get this and use it.  And my mention was a heads up for the Devs - but they just like to ignore. 

* Please stop circumventing the profanity filter. Thanks.

I have an ATI HD Pro 2600 card, and I have similar issues with indoor lag, but only at certain intervals.
The main time I get lag is when I first enter a new building after jacking in, OR just a new building that I hadn't been in during that current play session.
After running around the area and visiting the same-type structure numerous times (like during missions or such), the lag goes away, normally within 30-45 minutes. I guess it's during this time, the game just recycles the same textures when you enter the same-type structure.
I play with high detail, high shadows, and several of the advanced graphics sliders at high or max.
While it's not a solution, that's all I've noticed out of my card - just when first entering new buildings or entering after jacking in, I get massive, jump from this place to the other lag. I just ignore and it and go on, as after a while, it does smooth out.
That's just an observation on my part.

Travi wrote:

I have an ATI HD Pro 2600 card, and I have similar issues with indoor lag, but only at certain intervals.
The main time I get lag is when I first enter a new building after jacking in, OR just a new building that I hadn't been in during that current play session.
After running around the area and visiting the same-type structure numerous times (like during missions or such), the lag goes away, normally within 30-45 minutes. I guess it's during this time, the game just recycles the same textures when you enter the same-type structure.
I play with high detail, high shadows, and several of the advanced graphics sliders at high or max.
While it's not a solution, that's all I've noticed out of my card - just when first entering new buildings or entering after jacking in, I get massive, jump from this place to the other lag. I just ignore and it and go on, as after a while, it does smooth out.
That's just an observation on my part.

Thats normal.  Thats what you said, loading lag.  But even if I stay in a place for 30 min...it still lags.  Slight difference.

id say sell that card and upgrade to the 3870 because it sounds like it has buffering problems.

id say sell that card and upgrade to the 3870 because it sounds like it has buffering problems.

man i just replied to what he said he also thought he had indoor lag therefore on topic and this is all about solutions for the problem so therefore that is a solution and im on topic so get off my case.



btw the last thread was closed because of personal attacks *hint hint*

man i just replied to what he said he also thought he had indoor lag therefore on topic and this is all about solutions for the problem so therefore that is a solution and im on topic so get off my case.



btw the last thread was closed because of personal attacks *hint hint*

1stAnomaly wrote:

man i just replied to what he said he also thought he had indoor lag therefore on topic and this is all about solutions for the problem so therefore that is a solution and im on topic so get off my case.



btw the last thread was closed because of personal attacks *hint hint*

Please refrain from offering a solution of "Dump the 8xxx cause i think it's trash".  As a graphic desinger, this card is tops.  Duel screen, and running high rez for layouts, ill put any mac to shame.

Those of us posting in here to try and work out a solution with 9mmfu (Thanks for the help in game btw 9mm) are obviously NOT (Say that again...) NOT going to swap out our cards for the advice of some player with god knows what background.

ATI is not relevant, nor  will it be, EVER (let me say that again as well) ATI Will NEVER be relevant when dealing with Nvidia.

Thanks for your opinions, but we are looking for serious solutions, and not cop-outs.

Anywho...

Magog W, most of the larger buildings, I suffer a fraction of the lag there as if I were in clubs.  If I absolutely have to mission, I go there, and try and hit the big buildings that the Crossbones hang around.  Oddly enough, the same building styles elsewhere, suffer the lag.

Perhaps a different coder wrote this area than others?  Its just like the clubs, only lag I suffer is in doorways.  Once through and the door is closed, I am fine.

*edited for flamebaiting*

Sigh.

Anyways, My 8800 GTS Nvidia card is just getting straight up raped when it comes performance when entering buildings. If I stand still in a spot, the lag goes away because as stated earlier, MxO isn't trying to load up any more objects at that time. So I guess there's two ways of dealing with this problem.

Upgrading to Vista, yet again, substituting more problems instead of indoor lag, or trying to get something worked out with NVidia.. I mean we can shoot problems around all day, but I'd actually like to take this thing a step further and get help from NVidia. I heard someone from SOE sent out a request, but no further explainations thus far.

P.S. A reaffirmation on the building objects, because there are certain rooms in the game with fewer objects that don't lag as greatly as others, but it's still intolerable.