Image Retrieval - February 07, 2008

Grave · 02/12/2008 02:12:17

then who fault is it ??? ill hold them down you can punt...

mantra777 · 02/12/2008 02:13:48

Rarebit wrote:

mantra777 wrote:
I don't see the tug boat. Hey Rare, */Wave* Can we be able to step on the tugboat that was on the top center of from the previous maps?
No! That's where the last part of the Assassin lives, and he's a diiiiirty pirrrrate.

[Insert picture of Assassin wearing eyepatch over mask here.]

Also there's something funky with the radar array or satellite radio antenna or whatever it is on the thing, but I swear it isn't my fault.

Dang dirty pirrrrate! T.T */Shakefist* Must buy soap for the said pirate. =P Clean up will ya? =P

Oh! and I Blame Keith!!!

Rarebit · 02/12/2008 02:18:06

Rarebit wrote:

GypsyJuggler wrote:
Classy. How long do you expect the interiors to take? If it's a long time then you'll probably get people complaining about node spawn rates because half of the respawning nodes appear inside buildings and in other hard/impossible to reach places.
FOREVAR!!!!!"

Oh and actually, as far as I can recall, nodes don't actually have a timed "spawn rate" like you may be thinking. When one gets tapped out, another pops up somewhere else...uh...on the regionserver (/who area), I think. Either that, or in the neighborhood. It would be amount to the same thing for this construct in most cases. Anyway, so the number of them is supposed to stay pretty much constant. Not that they couldn't all end up in inconvenient spots, I guess, but last I knew, *in theory* we have abilities and tools that should be able to reach pretty much any node spawn location.

EDIT: Losing...perspicacity...

GypsyJuggler · 02/12/2008 02:23:34

Rarebit wrote:

Oh and actually, as far as I can recall, nodes don't actually have a timed "spawn rate" like you may be thinking. When one gets tapped out, another pops up somewhere else...uh...on the regionserver (/who area), I think. Either that, or in the neighborhood. It would be amount to the same thing for this construct in most cases. Anyway, so the number of them is supposed to stay pretty much constant. Not that they couldn't all end up in inconvenient spots, I guess, but last I knew, *in theory* we have abilities and tools that should be able to reach pretty much any node spawn location.

Oh, I'm aware that it's a 'tap one - spawn one' situation. The thing is that some people don't and as far as they can see the world 'runs out' of data nodes until the server is restarted. Sure half of the incoming nodes will be in the open but those ones get tapped first until all the 'new' nodes are inside, hidden or hard to reach.

Procurator · 02/12/2008 02:26:25

For a while I thought nodes only respawned after a server restart, but then I kept seeing them in places I'd already tapped out hours after I'd been there and before any reset. But always fewer of them.

Why're they more likely to spawn in buildings then? That's not fair. SMILEY

Rarebit · 02/12/2008 02:31:47

Hm well if they spawn inside mission areas then you wouldn't be able to get those, yah. Only three of those buildings actually have interiors to speak of, though, so it's a pretty dinky proportion of the overall space compared to, say, most neighborhoods in Downtown. Guess we'll see how it goes.

Oh and <3 t3h lowbs:

Demedrian · 02/12/2008 02:42:22

That's going to be a very bloody road.

Rarebit · 02/12/2008 02:45:02

Hm, either these Advanced Data Node Locator Goggles of mine are doing nothing, or data nodes don't spawn in mission areas, which is good.

EDIT: I called my goggles the WRONG NAME.

Demedrian · 02/12/2008 03:10:37

Rarebit wrote:

Hm, either these Advanced Data Node Locator Goggles of mine are doing nothing, or data nodes don't spawn in mission areas, which is good.

EDIT: I called my goggles the WRONG NAME.

Sounds like a glitch worked in your favor. *snicker*

GoDGiVeR · 02/12/2008 03:12:25

Rarebit wrote:

Hm, either these Advanced Data Node Locator Goggles of mine are doing nothing, or data nodes don't spawn in mission areas, which is good.

EDIT: I called my goggles the WRONG NAME.

The goggles, they do nothing. NOTHING!

Tenshi · 02/12/2008 03:28:44

You should liek, totally show us an NPC of this new area =D

That is if their is one? /shrug

Rarebit · 02/12/2008 03:31:44

Tenshi wrote:

You should liek, totally show us an NPC of this new area =D

That is if their is one? /shrug

Psst.

Tenshi · 02/12/2008 03:33:01

Oy, I lose 1 internet point ><

Rarebit · 02/12/2008 03:33:36

Demedrian wrote:

Rarebit wrote:
Hm, either these Advanced Data Node Locator Goggles of mine are doing nothing, or data nodes don't spawn in mission areas, which is good.

EDIT: I called my goggles the WRONG NAME.

Sounds like a glitch worked in your favor. *snicker*

Nah, it make sense they'd work that way. Which is why I was a little surprised that they did =P but anyway I think it was intentionally set that way for a few reasons.

MotorZ · 02/12/2008 04:00:30

lol gank zone! hopefully i can remember not to be tapping in those areas...just ganking

Croesis · 02/12/2008 04:46:19

Rarebit wrote:

I dunno if you construct-haters are thinking this through all the way, or just jumping on what you think sounds most convenient...
Well, I guess there really isn't much worth saying about it until you've at least tried it.

You know Rarebit, you never did answer Proc's question. We know that entrances are random therefore the proxies in the construct are merely exit points which makes your earlier statement of 'No no, Archivist Proxies are exits, not entrances.' understandable, however, your screenshots show and therefore tell us that you enter Datamine via a normal world area proxy.

The only concern we have for that is the amount of time it takes to get into the construct via that route, that's all. If you can't get the construct on the phone list, fine. Normal archives don't do this, I gather, because it would prevent the archive books from wearing down if you can access the archive from the LA. This suggests to me that we will indeed require another key for the area which will wear down.

In any case we are only suggesting ways that would improve the experience for us. I mean is there a reason for the delay to get into an archive? Why isn't there a delay to get back? Why can't we click on the Archivist in a bookshop and get sent there immediately? The amount of time it takes to re-materialise in a world district and head back to a bookshop is really (I think) long enough for those who had the last win to rest up even without the extra few minutes it takes for the Archivist to decide to send you there. Plus with random entry there will be a slightly longer time re-identifying the combat area. All we are trying to prevent is PvP becoming a quick fight then a boring 5+ min wait for the next round.

I really don't think 'construct-haters' is a very accurate term. Sure, we had hoped for a district at first, then we knew it was a construct with FFA PvP, then some of us had hoped for manual flagging (bar Vector) so we can enjoy your new creation how we like to play the game, that's not going to happen so we've accepted it. 'Construct-haters' is a pretty harsh term imo, we may not have much input in the design process but suggesting ideas is something we're always going to do and until we get a straight answer people are going to keep on suggesting them up until we experience the finished version.

Tenshi · 02/12/2008 05:18:50

The way I always saw the archivist was actually a solution to having constant pvp, whereas once you killed someone, or a group of people, you wouldn't have to worry about running into them for at least a brief period of time. Either way, pvp is a danger you'll have to face in this construct, if the time it takes to reconstruct and enter the construct is a hassle, find the best way to avoid it...

Plus, promise I wont attack you Vinia

Procurator · 02/12/2008 05:45:01

*Cheers for Vinia.*

Oh, the means to access the Archives isn't a hassle. It's mind numbing tedium, that's all.

As I suggested a while back, the random placement from entry to Datamine should be enough to stop people leaping straight back into the frey, which is one of the shortcomings of regular PvP in the Mega City. We don't also need to load Richland, hyperjump to the bookshop, buy a book if we've lost our old one (an absurd mechanic right from the off if you ask me), then hang around the Proxy for five minutes waiting to be teleported.

Seriously, that's going to put people right off. Before you know it we'll have given up on Datamine and will be demanding Edgewater be FFA instead.

Croesis · 02/12/2008 06:05:03

Tenshi wrote:

The way I always saw the archivist was actually a solution to having constant pvp, whereas once you killed someone, or a group of people, you wouldn't have to worry about running into them for at least a brief period of time. Either way, pvp is a danger you'll have to face in this construct, if the time it takes to reconstruct and enter the construct is a hassle, find the best way to avoid it...

Plus, promise I wont attack you Vinia

We'll see about that... but as I was saying I agree that constant PvP is a bit frantic and the Archive entry procedure prevents this but the way I see it, and I agree with Procurator, is that as well as the 2 loading screens, one for the world, then back in the construct (not everyone's loading time is superfast) you also have to transit to the Archivist then wait for the Archivist to finish the chapter in his book before he sends you on your way. In PvP it only takes abround a minute to build up your health and IS and another to talk tactics in your team, the rest of the time is spent waiting around for hostiles (If you can trust your team members not to decide to take you out for teh lulz). Now boredom for the team (or individuals) in the construct may diminish depending on how many other teams are also there, but the tedium for the people to get back into the fray will still be there.

I say again that is really the only concern. I wasn't around for the introduction of the Archives but I probably would have had similar concerns then albeit slightly lesser than now due to the known entry points... I don't think that makes me or Procurator or anyone else who agrees 'construct-haters'.

TonyJaa · 02/12/2008 06:30:44

Rarebit wrote:

All right. Crisis averted, everyone! Take off the panic hats! Okay!

Thanks to that timely reminder that you can't actually tap higher level nodes (now who'd have forgotten a thing like that *cough*), we now have lowbie mining zones, as follows:

They're relegated to relatively small parts of the island, yes, but hey, let's face it, why give a lot of real estate to someone who's gonna be dead in one shot, anyway?

>_>

<_<

=D

*cough*

Now, ungenerous level 50 types may refer to these small, concentrated target areas as

"gank zones," or something equally disrespectful, buuuuut I'm sure everyone will leave the poor lowbies to mine in peace.

;D

Of course we will..MUAHAHAHAHA

TonyJaa

GoDGiVeR · 02/12/2008 06:32:07

Vinia wrote:

I don't think that makes me or Procurator or anyone else who agrees 'construct-haters'.

BURN THEM. Rarebit, get the crowd and the pitchforks ready. We're going on a hunt. WEIDMANNS HEIL

0uranos · 02/12/2008 06:33:39

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Vinia wrote:
I don't think that makes me or Procurator or anyone else who agrees 'construct-haters'.
BURN THEM. Rarebit, get the crowd and the pitchforks ready. We're going on a hunt. WEIDMANNS HEIL

If you burn Proc... Can I have his gun ?

GoDGiVeR · 02/12/2008 06:37:38

0uranos wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:
Vinia wrote:
I don't think that makes me or Procurator or anyone else who agrees 'construct-haters'.
BURN THEM. Rarebit, get the crowd and the pitchforks ready. We're going on a hunt. WEIDMANNS HEIL

If you burn Proc... Can I have his gun ?

No, it's mine. ALL IS MINE MWAHAHAHA

Procurator · 02/12/2008 06:52:43

/crossarms

Just try. SMILEY

ArchDuke · 02/12/2008 07:26:42

7 Proxies... maybe there are 7 ways to get in too?

a new Proxy in each archive construct + 1 unknown one for lowbies that can't get to yuki?

Am I getting close?

Croesis · 02/12/2008 07:34:31

ArchDuke wrote:

7 Proxies... maybe there are 7 ways to get in too?

a new Proxy in each archive construct + 1 unknown one for lowbies that can't get to yuki?

Am I getting close?

That would mean taking even longer to get into Datamine! As far as I can tell the current Archivists in Archives only send you back to the main simulation so its reasonable to assume that there are seven ways to exit Datamine, there are no entry points (or unlimited entry points depending on the way you look at it) as you get put into a random place every time you enter the place...

Procurator · 02/12/2008 07:38:42

Exactly. Earlier in the thread people were assuming there were going to be new Proxies to find in the Mega City. That would be madness.

-Collbard- · 02/12/2008 08:03:05

Look, you guys keep bringing it up, but I really don't see the problem with using the archivists to enter. Proc said it is mind-numbingly tedious...

*click hardline location
*enter building
*do absolutely nothing at all for a few short minutes

there are few things in this game that are less tedious than this. FFA is not ruined by this; in fact, if you are entering the construct at the same time as someone else, you know beforehand that someone else is going to be there for you to beat up on/get pwnd by. Also, by increasing traffic to the archivists, players (specifically mid-level players) may get involved with the other things to do there (arhcive constructs, archive missions stat-hack, org construct).

My question to rarebit is, will the seperate data node spawning areas somehow be marked off? for instance, "Now entering level 30 Data Node location" or are we just going to have to go off of that map and learning the area? Either way is fine and understandable (gives those who take the time to learn the area a bit of an advantage), I'm just curious.

CrimsonKiller01 · 02/12/2008 08:17:47

Well there is no doubt that there will be glitches, Murphy's Law always applies. The label "construct-haters" is something I wouldn't give a second thought to, it's just too stupid to get into a tizzy over. And yes it would have been great if this construct was a new district but from what I understand that would be a serious undertaking and it is not known it would be possible. I guess in that aspect time will tell but it would be nice to get a definitive answer on the possibility for new districts.

The idea of having a construct that has everyone red flagged to everybody seems promising. I can already see where this is going to bring a different angle to roleplay, I mean it would be interesting to have a version of Cypher in each faction.

As far as the entries and exits of the place, well with the constructs I have always looked at it as an "all or nothing " scenario. Meaning either your team is gonna be the victors or totally demolished and none of this re-jacking in from a hardline two seconds after you got killed.

Two things though more in the form of question/suggestion. Would it be possible to hollow out the buildings? Maybe instead of having doors that open and close you just have and the frame and no doors, same goes for the windows. You could use stairs instead of elevators to get to different floors so all of this would probably save time and energy on just programming elevators and doors. A few hollowed out building with just floors, window frames where you can put a few snipers and also be a good place to hide out for a while if things get too hectic outside.

Second thing I was going to ask/suggest, any chance for a construct boss?

Procurator · 02/12/2008 08:22:39

-Collbard- wrote:

there are few things in this game that are less tedious than this. FFA is not ruined by this; in fact, if you are entering the construct at the same time as someone else, you know beforehand that someone else is going to be there for you to beat up on/get pwnd by. Also, by increasing traffic to the archivists, players (specifically mid-level players) may get involved with the other things to do there (arhcive constructs, archive missions stat-hack, org construct).

Firstly, as far as we know, there's no guarantee that the person waiting in the bookshop with you is going to spawn in the same place as you. Do players appear randomly no matter when they go or is each trip assigned a random destination (the whole group going to the same place)? We don't know yet.

As for people getting involved in the few other things Archivists have to offer, I think that's a rather far fetched dream. If people know about Datamine, they know about the Archives. Passing their entrance isn't likely to spark a sudden new enthusiasm to kill Tasky or Tengu.

Phluff · 02/12/2008 08:29:02

Rarebit wrote:

Hm well if they spawn inside mission areas then you wouldn't be able to get those, yah. Only three of those buildings actually have interiors to speak of, though, so it's a pretty dinky proportion of the overall space compared to, say, most neighborhoods in Downtown. Guess we'll see how it goes.

Oh and <3 t3h lowbs:

Broke linky to pic? =(

*edit* The image is showing now and............... wow. This has to be one of my phavorites so phar. 0_0

Croesis · 02/12/2008 08:29:33

*Await LA to load
*click hardline location (No time at all...)
*Await simulation to load
*Transit to bookshop
*enter building (No time at all... unless you have the 8800!)
*do absolutely nothing at all for a few ~~short~~ minutes
*Await Construct to load
*Find out where you materialised and where the fight was
*Transit to last known location of fight
repeat as required....

This is the way I see it, its quite a long time (in the PvP word) between rounds it's also quite a long period between fun... imo.

If we absolutely have to use the Archivist because there is no other way of getting there, fine. If not, isn't there a slightly quicker way? Preferably without having to stand in front of an Archivist for 5 mins trying to get his attention? I like the idea of random spawning points I don't wanna see that go, but there is a lot of time in which to get bored and head back to Mara... unless you really wanna kill someone in your own org, gank the lowbies or you want to mine the increased yield in the area.

Shadow-SK · 02/12/2008 09:02:40

Rarebit seems pretty excited. SMILEY

Did someone hit him with Movement Accelerator 3.0? =P

Also, I too am not a construct hater. Just some thoughts that came to mind about the archivist transport system.

Grave · 02/12/2008 09:05:18

Vinia wrote:

*Await LA to load
*click hardline location (No time at all...)
*Await simulation to load
*Transit to bookshop
*enter building (No time at all... unless you have the 8800!)
*do absolutely nothing at all for a few ~~short~~ minutes
*Await Construct to load
*Find out where you materialised and where the fight was
*Transit to last known location of fight
repeat as required....
This is the way I see it, its quite a long time (in the PvP word) between rounds it's also quite a long period between fun... imo.
If we absolutely have to use the Archivist because there is no other way of getting there, fine. If not, isn't there a slightly quicker way? Preferably without having to stand in front of an Archivist for 5 mins trying to get his attention? I like the idea of random spawning points I don't wanna see that go, but there is a lot of time in which to get bored and head back to Mara... unless you really wanna kill someone in your own org, gank the lowbies or you want to mine the increased yield in the area.

lol look at it this way no DE when you get back in there.

Shadow-SK · 02/12/2008 09:14:07

Looks like healers could play a part in holding numbers in the construct, if the rez fix doesn't change anything (voluntarily or involuntarily). >_>

Croesis · 02/12/2008 09:26:32

Grave wrote:

lol look at it this way no DE when you get back in there.

Not thought of that. It is a plus, but I'd still prefer a quicker entry. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Next issue please....

<.<
>.>

nubious81 · 02/12/2008 10:12:41

well id say recall Ftw?

ArchDuke · 02/12/2008 10:46:36

nubious81 wrote:

well id say recall Ftw?

Can't recall into the archives though.

MXOWinterMute · 02/12/2008 11:08:27

If I were the devs, I'd be giggling with glee at all the excitement this is producing.

And...I'd be playing my cards close to my chest. I'm betting that for all our speculation, we find some interesting surprises when this area is finally opened to us.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping this is where those bridges I'd seen a long time ago, are supposed to go. It'd be nice if this area is easy to get to. SMILEY

Procurator · 02/12/2008 11:14:16

Which bridges would those be?

cloudwolf · 02/12/2008 11:42:23

For what its worth i'm ok with using the archivist system. Theres a reason why constructs were always intended as the game's main pvp system and i commend the devs for at least trying to encourage it's use again.

ZaneZavin · 02/12/2008 11:52:13

Thanks for fixing up the node levels. Now, I'll have a reason to get ganked in style.

GoDGiVeR · 02/12/2008 14:17:55

Since there'll be a lvl 5 node area, the question arises:

Who ganks the gankers?

I know I will ^_^

Edit: Lowbies ftw

Phluff · 02/12/2008 14:59:47

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Since there'll be a lvl 5 node area, the question arises:

Who ganks the gankers?

I know I will ^_^

Edit: Lowbies ftw

Ooooooo good idea. I'll be there with you. SMILEY

They will need protection! I bet we can get more to help too!

"Datamine Security Phorce" SMILEY

<_<

GoDGiVeR · 02/12/2008 15:54:00

Phluff wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:
Since there'll be a lvl 5 node area, the question arises:

Who ganks the gankers?

I know I will ^_^

Edit: Lowbies ftw

Ooooooo good idea. I'll be there with you. " />
They will need protection! I bet we can get more to help too!
"Datamine Security Phorce" " />
<_<

Go Zion! We got what you need!

GypsyJuggler · 02/12/2008 19:09:12

There are still a lot of unanswered questions about how Datamine will work but as Rarebit suggests, it's probably better to wait and see before we start arguing about it.

Rarebit · 02/12/2008 19:44:01

Dang, forgot to raise the AA again.

nubious81 · 02/12/2008 19:47:11

Rarebit wrote:

Dang, forgot to raise the AA again.

O.o so is this going to be a go for next thursday? or beyond?

mantra777 · 02/12/2008 19:50:34

nubious81 wrote:

O.o so is this going to be a go for next thursday? or beyond?

YOu meant this Thurday, Non? As update 57 states that 9.2.4 started last week.

nubious81 · 02/12/2008 19:55:43

we have one week between a .5 of a chapter so there will be no criticals this thursday next update 58 will be next thursday