93 posts · 2008-01-25 19:37:01 to 2008-02-07 17:07:52
Good to see some of my fellows aggravating the magma-lovers.
...So he's... placing programs around the Matrix?
...So what? Why should we care?
...So he's... placing programs around the Matrix?
...So what? Why should we care?
Until we know what he really wants to get out from all his questions, we can not be sure his actions will be good or bad for us.
If he has indeed gone on a crazed tantrum, then we need to be prepared for more of these attacks.
From what we have seen the Intruder is cable of controlling agents and programs we can only fear the worst. Great fight everyone!
(Great fights against the Cyph and Machines, now that made us feel we really are at war. So thanks to the cyph's and mechs for helping out on this event)
img>Nicely done everyone. Although we failed, we showed a united Zion to those accelerated, cypherites and machines.
Special thanks to Sillaria for saving my life 
Programs that are destabilizing the Matrix. He's slowly chewing away at the simulation. Not to mention these accelerated guys popping up on you are really annoying. They all gang up on me and break my shield. Eugh....So he's... placing programs around the Matrix?
...So what? Why should we care?
Programs that are destabilizing the Matrix. He's slowly chewing away at the simulation. Not to mention these accelerated guys popping up on you are really annoying. They all gang up on me and break my shield. Eugh.
...So what? I really don't see what Zion has to gain by maintaining the source of Machine power while we're at war with them. He wants to destroy the Matrix he can be my guest.
Aquatium. wrote:
Until we know what he really wants to get out from all his questions, we can not be sure his actions will be good or bad for us.Well, none of it really affects us. He's got no way to permanently injure or kill any of our operatives. He's just destabilizing the Matrix, which should be one of our goals. He's helping us with these "tantrums" at this point.If he has indeed gone on a crazed tantrum, then we need to be prepared for more of these attacks.
By destabilizing the Matrix he's putting millions of Bluepill's lives in danger. We don't want inoccent lives getting caught in the crossfire of the intruder's temper tantrum. We need to find him and calm him down.
What happened to the whole event? The meeting afterwards was interrupted by agents and the zionites were brought outside and I combated Niobe. Fist time to fully participate in an event and I get shorted on the credits lol.
<a href="http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/baseballcrwf755/?action=view¤t=screenshot_214.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/baseballcrwf755/screenshot_214.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
What happened to the whole event? The meeting afterwards was interrupted by agents and the zionites were brought outside and I combated Niobe. Fist time to fully participate in an event and I get shorted on the credits lol.
[IMG]http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q200/baseballcrwf755/screenshot_214.jpg[/IMG]
((Coroebus: I'm a little teapot, short and stout... ))
Isn't it rather hypocrytical to tolerate New Zion's assistance, but disapprove of their presence in the first place? It's like a country relying on immigrant workers but refusing to give them legitimate residency.
We are all here to further the interests of the Human Race, we simply differ in our views as to how the future of our kind is best served. What is most frustrating is that we all continue to focus on our differences, rather than concentrate on our similarities: a little tolerence might go a long way...
I'm afraid that just doesn't work for me anymore. The Machines think that the Matrix is only their domain? Let this be their problem. I'm not going to let it come to the point where Niobe's telling us to collaborate with them to take him down somehow. It's not practical for us when after we succeed, they'll just be at our door ripping our our throats again.I see... instead of doing something to prevent the destabilisation of the thing that keeps millions of bluepills alive, you want to concentrate on fighting and hurting the Machines adding more to the risk to the bluepills, you know... the Human race? I'm please that Harkee has some sense about this.
Zionites aren't even supposed to be in the Matrix, remember? But while they're here, they may as well do the best they can to shut the Intruder up. So I appreciate Harkee's statement.
However, protecting the Bluepills does not involve annoying the living hell out of him, Colt. *Sighs.*
This War will not be won by Violence and Vengeance alone, Niobe has a point in wanting to further communications between New Zion and the Intruder, as his distractions seem to be worsening this conflict between Man, machine and Exile. And the fact that we do not yet fully understand his intentions should hasten our efforts.
But this statment alone is what strikes me with concern.
"Niobe : Let's hope he *doesn't* know about her." Referring to the Oracle.
It's a shame we didn't find him. But hopefully that Disk that Distephano found can help us out.
Zion fought hard and with passion this day. It was an honor to participate.
Pill
Neoteny wrote:I'm afraid that just doesn't work for me anymore. The Machines think that the Matrix is only their domain? Let this be their problem. I'm not going to let it come to the point where Niobe's telling us to collaborate with them to take him down somehow. It's not practical for us when after we succeed, they'll just be at our door ripping our our throats again.I see... instead of doing something to prevent the destabilisation of the thing that keeps millions of bluepills alive, you want to concentrate on fighting and hurting the Machines adding more to the risk to the bluepills, you know... the Human race? I'm please that Harkee has some sense about this.
If Niobe came to the decision that collaboration with the Machines to combat the risk is necessary... don't you think that that may be a step toward ending the war? It's been done before by one man. Now noone has his powers but if all of Zion work toward it, I'm certain that another truce can be formed.
Surely you don't think you can defeat the problem with the Intruder and defeat the Machines and keep all of the innocent bluepills alive? The only way this war is going to end is either another truce, the eventual decimation of Zionite operatives or the defeat of the Machines with massive bluepill casualties. I see that you are leaning toward the last option.
Now you've got me all confused. I was under the impression that Command, along with Niobe, Ghost, and the rest of our leaders, were the great satan and that in order to achieve peace we had to rebel at any corner? I thought the Machines said that we were at war; that they didn't want us here. You're telling me that I should follow my chain of command and violate yours? My God, it's almost as if you've got common sense!
But in all honesty and seriousness, I realized a long time ago that the war will end in either one of two ways: with peace, or with a victory. I haven't seen the opportunity for a Truce (well, I suppose I shouldn't even say Truce, I don't want a goddamn Truce - the last one only lead to war, mistrust, and deceit, and I'll have no further false peaces in my time) and so I've been pushing for victory, unlikely though it is.
As it stands, there is no agreement that we'd be granted peace upon termination of the so-called "Intruder," so why should I have any illusions that it might be restored at such a point? The Machines want our help? They can promise us peace and make an agreement that both sides have a part in deciding. Until then, I see no reason to protect the System that fuels their war-machine.
It's not that I want to see bluepills die - I'd love to save them all, I'd love it if they'd all see the truth, I'd love it if they could all even continue to live their lives as they do without powering the Machine, but they cannot. If it's a decision between us and them, I choose us. But I'll be damned if I won't try to save as many as I can before and when the System goes down. They're just victims of circumstance, after all.
Unsurprisingly, Neoteny's the only one I see talking any sense.
Let the Intruder tear this place apart. Works for me.
You seem to forget who put us there in the Matrix in the first place.....H'mm? What's that got to do with anything? The Machines dictate who is and who isn't allowed in the Matrix. You have no inherent right to enter it just because you were born into it. It's not your domain anymore now that you've left.
Now you've got me all confused. I was under the impression that Command, along with Niobe, Ghost, and the rest of our leaders, were the great satan and that in order to achieve peace we had to rebel at any corner? I thought the Machines said that we were at war; that they didn't want us here. You're telling me that I should follow my chain of command and violate yours? My God, it's almost as if you've got common sense!How is a decision, made by the Zion leadership, to approach the Machines in order to offer help in return for a new treaty a violation of my chain of command? Any new treaty would have to be agreed by both sides. At first I thought it would have to be a number of Zion operatives who would need to violate their chain of command in order to broker a new truce or treaty. Now I see it might have to be the Zion leadership who will have to violate their operatives wishes to do it.But in all honesty and seriousness, I realized a long time ago that the war will end in either one of two ways: with peace, or with a victory. I haven't seen the opportunity for a Truce (well, I suppose I shouldn't even say Truce, I don't want a goddamn Truce - the last one only lead to war, mistrust, and deceit, and I'll have no further false peaces in my time) and so I've been pushing for victory, unlikely though it is.
As it stands, there is no agreement that we'd be granted peace upon termination of the so-called "Intruder," so why should I have any illusions that it might be restored at such a point? The Machines want our help? They can promise us peace and make an agreement that both sides have a part in deciding. Until then, I see no reason to protect the System that fuels their war-machine.
It's not that I want to see bluepills die - I'd love to save them all, I'd love it if they'd all see the truth, I'd love it if they could all even continue to live their lives as they do without powering the Machine, but they cannot. If it's a decision between us and them, I choose us. But I'll be damned if I won't try to save as many as I can before and when the System goes down. They're just victims of circumstance, after all.
Mindsweep wrote:Yes it has been arguing a thousand times before Proc, but that does still not mean you are right! So as long as the matrix excist and you machines keep this war going on, we will have this argument. Not our domain??? We never claim it to be ours, we were forced against our own will to be a part of this system you claim to be yours. If you still believe, that we will follow the machines orders...then you are very wrong.You seem to forget who put us there in the Matrix in the first place.....H'mm? What's that got to do with anything? The Machines dictate who is and who isn't allowed in the Matrix. You have no inherent right to enter it just because you were born into it. It's not your domain anymore now that you've left.
Again, I'm arguing about something that's been covered a thousand times before. Gargh!
Yes it has been arguing a thousand times before Proc, but that does still not mean you are right! So as long as the matrix excist and you machines keep this war going on, we will have this argument. Not our domain??? We never claim it to be ours, we were forced against our own will to be a part of this system you claim to be yours. If you still believe, that we will follow the machines orders...then you are very wrong.I'm not saying I'm right here. Nor am I saying you're right. My point is that the arguments reached unsatisfactory conclusions all times they've been had before, so there's no point starting it up again. We'll just cover the same points, make the same claims, and end up with nothing except a large gap where 'spare time' used to be.
I'm not saying I'm right here. Nor am I saying you're right. My point is that the arguments reached unsatisfactory conclusions all times they've been had before, so there's no point starting it up again. We'll just cover the same points, make the same claims, and end up with nothing except a large gap where 'spare time' used to be.Is that your subtle hint for me to shut up already?
The only new point I raised was the irony that our leadership is telling us to get involved and calm down the Intruder, whereas yours is telling us to get lost and get out of the Matrix, and yet you, the Machinists, are telling us to follow the directives of our leadership. When I say that I'd almost rather follow the directives of yours in this scenario, you call me insensetive, uncaring, a selfish bastard and such, even though you've all been telling me to get lost and doing nothing but shouting about how Zion's leadership is entirely corrupt and uncaring, that they caused nothing but war and that in order to find peace, we'd need to stop listening to them altogether.
You guys flip-flop so much, it's ridiculous.
I want peace, so your *CENSORED* right I'd support whoever in Zion wants to look for it. At first I thought Zion operatives wanted it, many had said that they'd prefer to end the war whilst the leadership carried on. Now it seems there may be a small suggestion that it's the leadership that may end up looking for it, despite what their operatives may say or think.
Some within Zion want peace, some do not. I can't say I blame them either, considering the track record.
I wouldn't suggest that we go out and hunt down these hostile programs, it's not our job to do that. However, if they keep intercepting us and attacking us while we try to track the Intruder down(common sense says they probably will) then that is a different story. In this situation, we were slowed down by those accelerated machine programs while trying to establish contact with the Intruder, thats when it becomes our problem and our job to destroy them. The same goes for those Cypherites as well, ugh, we owe you lot one.
-Trep
Is that your subtle hint for me to shut up already?*Laughs.* No, don't worry. I only tell myself or my opposition to shut up.
Some within Zion want peace, some do not. I can't say I blame them either, considering the track record.I wouldn't suggest that we go out and hunt down these hostile programs, it's not our job to do that. However, if they keep intercepting us and attacking us while we try to track the Intruder down(common sense says they probably will) then that is a different story. In this situation, we were slowed down by those accelerated machine programs while trying to establish contact with the Intruder, thats when it becomes our problem and our job to destroy them. The same goes for those Cypherites as well, ugh, we owe you lot one.
-Trep
Well said, Trepetia, and I agree wholeheartedly. Naturally, if they get in our way, we get rid of them, but we're not the terminators here.
Vinia, my problem is that we have no guarantee of peace. Hell, we've got no guarantee of anything. And I won't let them have it both ways - either we are granted permanent and unrestricted access to the Matrix (i.e. no more "you don't belong here" talk) and have a mutual agreement that there will be some form of peace (a Truce, a pact, an alliance, whatever) or we don't. There can't be an agreement that we will cooperate and forget about the war, the decimation, the genocide everytime the Matrix is threatened by some exterior force. There can't be an agreement that we can show up and lend a hand only when there is a perceived threat to the System. We're not puppets.
But the more we "help out" now, the quicker we go back to being actively pursued throughout the tunnels by sentinels. And that doesn't sit right with me.
Zionites aren't even supposed to be in the Matrix, remember?There was a time when non-white people couldn't sit on a bus unless there were seats in the back, couldn't eat in the same room with white people, couldn't use the water fountains or bathrooms that white people used, couldn't get the same education or medical care which white people enjoyed. Why? Because the white people told them "you are not supposed to be in there." These conditions weren't ended because those in power said "oh, it's OK now." They were ended because those who were told "you're not allowed; you're not supposed to; you can't" refused to be controlled by false authority any longer. Get this through your muddled skulls and report it back to the programs who are your masters:
There was a time when non-white people couldn't sit on a bus unless there were seats in the back, couldn't eat in the same room with white people, couldn't use the water fountains or bathrooms that white people used, couldn't get the same education or medical care which white people enjoyed. Why? Because the white people told them "you are not supposed to be in there." These conditions weren't ended because those in power said "oh, it's OK now." They were ended because those who were told "you're not allowed; you're not supposed to; you can't" refused to be controlled by false authority any longer. Get this through your muddled skulls and report it back to the programs who are your masters:
1) We do not recognize any claim of ownership of any property, actual or virtual, by any non-human being.
2) We do not recognize any claim of authority or power, actual or virtual, by any non-human being.
3) These tenets will be enforced by the destruction or deactivation of any mechanical or virtual being claiming to hold authority, power or property.
There is no article of law ever written which gives a Mechanical or Virtual Being the right to own property on planet Earth. Therefore, the materials used to construct the Matrix in its physical form have always rightly belonged to humanity, and they were stolen from us at the end of an illegal war by those who are not recognized as having any right whatsoever to property or authority. Eventually, mankind will again flourish in a sunlit, lush biosphere with Mechanicals happily going about the work for which they were created: serving the needs of mankind, just like the mechanicals in New Zion do now.
+SuvejzTMsq9g0ml+s7/cXE2aN3R2R9kIdGu7kmDhFXjxuwIwp8Eq9SJYaCikaXpvjpFTKOhABCjtCfrtgmWSb7NCYqj9KQegXWfckB0YUWanz/b0sW3NV5MX3STOJBaRZjYfzmBWH6K7LSvlK2xfE3ThAAFyT+NZ3KBWSrajIKRpCLC22jZtifcGH7zxa5A+N/05+bq6zFquzLVwRJsGHqrKDXt7mjcoxubjZuToFMmnUWKgKdF6T6SROTTdJzLIlFJn+vOktuY+7fabdbM0V5848m92nwqO/+is3Y/+eI=
*laughs hysterically*
Oh my, that is humerous, in a "pot, meet kettle" sort of way. The first part of this post talks about how certain individuals who were once oppressed rose up against those in authority, and the second part firmly sets another group of individuals as unable to own property, hold power, or have any self-determination.
Digital apartheid, anyone?
Illyria
ThePigeonKing wrote:Programs that are destabilizing the Matrix. He's slowly chewing away at the simulation.
...So what? I really don't see what Zion has to gain by maintaining the source of Machine power while we're at war with them. He wants to destroy the Matrix he can be my guest.Aquatium. wrote:
Until we know what he really wants to get out from all his questions, we can not be sure his actions will be good or bad for us.Well, none of it really affects us. He's got no way to permanently injure or kill any of our operatives. He's just destabilizing the Matrix, which should be one of our goals. He's helping us with these "tantrums" at this point.If he has indeed gone on a crazed tantrum, then we need to be prepared for more of these attacks.
Here's a thought...
Zion, if you really want peace with the Machines -- not the destruction of them (or yourselves), but actual peace with them -- you may want to take our current situation with the Intruder as an opportunity to let them know that. Show that you don't want the Intruder to harm the Matrix or the bluepills that depend on it -- take down any accelerated programs you see before they can hurt anyone still attached to the simulation, and don't antagonize the Intruder or egg him on to commit any more acts of violence against the system. Don't try to get the Intruder on your side, or try to use him to bring down the Machines.
This will go a long way towards demonstrating that you do want to live in peace with the Machines...by showing that you don't necessarily want the Machine race wiped out.
That is the fear behind this new war, you know...that if humans regain any of our old power, we will use it to try to destroy the Machines, just as our ancestors did. Show us that this isn't what you want. Take this opportunity to help protect the Matrix and the bluepills from the Intruder. The Machines will remember your actions long after the Intruder is gone.
It just might be the first step towards peace.
Illyria
1) We do not recognize any claim of ownership of any property, actual or virtual, by any non-human being.
2) We do not recognize any claim of authority or power, actual or virtual, by any non-human being.
3) These tenets will be enforced by the destruction or deactivation of any mechanical or virtual being claiming to hold authority, power or property.
There is no article of law ever written which gives a Mechanical or Virtual Being the right to own property on planet Earth. Therefore, the materials used to construct the Matrix in its physical form have always rightly belonged to humanity, and they were stolen from us at the end of an illegal war by those who are not recognized as having any right whatsoever to property or authority. Eventually, mankind will again flourish in a sunlit, lush biosphere with Mechanicals happily going about the work for which they were created: serving the needs of mankind, just like the mechanicals in New Zion do now.
+SuvejzTMsq9g0ml+s7/cXE2aN3R2R9kIdGu7kmDhFXjxuwIwp8Eq9SJYaCikaXpvjpFTKOhABCjtCfrtgmWSb7NCYqj9KQegXWfckB0YUWanz/b0sW3NV5MX3STOJBaRZjYfzmBWH6K7LSvlK2xfE3ThAAFyT+NZ3KBWSrajIKRpCLC22jZtifcGH7zxa5A+N/05+bq6zFquzLVwRJsGHqrKDXt7mjcoxubjZuToFMmnUWKgKdF6T6SROTTdJzLIlFJn+vOktuY+7fabdbM0V5848m92nwqO/+is3Y/+eI=
Like I told Vinia, some Machinist think that the Machine will stop fighting us if we play nice, but there is no evidence that this is the case, and there is no word from the Machine that there is a clause for ending this war. When the Machine wants the war to end, it'll make those terms clear.Neo had no evidence that the Machines would listen to his proposal, he had no word from the Machines that there may be a clause, they didn't make terms clear before their meeting. He did what he did because he believed in it. This is an opportunity, an opportunity to show the Machines that we can put hostilities aside and work together once more and I would consider any Zionite who wants peace a fool if they did not at least attempt to take advantage of the opportunity. They should know that they would get support from any Machinist who desires peace, something that Neo never had.
I hate to break it to you, but most of us never wanted war to begin with. We're just quite unwilling to disarm in the middle of one, and, well, at least in my eyes, to disarm at all for fear of a strike of opportunity now.
I've already said that peace is the most desirable outcome. But there will have to be agreements to it before we start doing any favors for them.
Zion succeeded in pushing away Cypherites and keeping them outside the building. Good work.Nope.
Ednix wrote:Well...you didn't get Niobe, so whatever you won first round or second round inside the building the battle contiue outside and we kinda still won...Zion succeeded in pushing away Cypherites and keeping them outside the building. Good work.Nope.
Marias wrote:You did win, for a while. Then we whored you untill you went to the club, then we whored you when you came out.Ednix wrote:Well...you didn't get Niobe, so whatever you won first round or second round inside the building the battle contiue outside and we kinda still won...Zion succeeded in pushing away Cypherites and keeping them outside the building. Good work.Nope.
Mindsweep wrote:Marias wrote:You did win, for a while. Then we whored you untill you went to the club, then we whored you when you came out.Ednix wrote:Well...you didn't get Niobe, so whatever you won first round or second round inside the building the battle contiue outside and we kinda still won...Zion succeeded in pushing away Cypherites and keeping them outside the building. Good work.Nope.
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Yeah..something like that.
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Marias wrote:Darn Niobe's curiously fast regeneration... >_>Ednix wrote:Well...you didn't get Niobe, so whatever you won first round or second round inside the building the battle contiue outside and we kinda still won...Zion succeeded in pushing away Cypherites and keeping them outside the building. Good work.Nope.
