Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

#36300384682 01/11/2008 06:19:27 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Procurator wrote:

Huh, I just realised... Was that really Laurence Fishburne's voice? If it is, did they get him back for this, did they already have his voice clips ready for this from years back, or have they re-used something?

If it's not him, they did a damned good job.

I think it was Lawrence Fishburne, they can get people to do one off speaches you know.

#36300384683 01/11/2008 06:19:45 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Procurator wrote:

Huh, I just realised... Was that really Laurence Fishburne's voice? If it is, did they get him back for this, did they already have his voice clips ready for this from years back, or have they re-used something?

If it's not him, they did a damned good job.

I think it was Lawrence Fishburne, they can get people to do one off speaches you know.

#36300384684 01/11/2008 06:28:05 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Gah, stupid posting.

#36300384692 01/11/2008 06:47:49 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

xenin wrote:

Procurator wrote:
Huh, I just realised... Was that really Laurence Fishburne's voice? If it is, did they get him back for this, did they already have his voice clips ready for this from years back, or have they re-used something?

If it's not him, they did a damned good job.

I think it was Lawrence Fishburne, they can get people to do one off speaches you know.

Like Bayamos said earlier, they didn't get him to record these lines they were recorded when MxO was being made.

4 8 15 16 23 42

#36300384790 01/11/2008 11:44:18 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Roukan wrote:

MotorZ wrote:
Okay, because I'm annoyed by people predicting things that have at least been said (things can always change) in a mission to not be true:

the Intruder is a FREE-BORN HUMAN. He's not a program. Agent Gray was the one who said this. He could always be lying, but at this point this is what we know.
Oh please, they lied about re-insertion. Why should I care what Gray says unless it's proven fact? (I haven't done a critical since Anome =P)

Did they lie? Or was it that Cryptos when he returned thought it was possible and passed his thoughts on to the Cypherites based on what they thought happened to Cypher. When Directly asked about reinsertion Gray said there and then that there was no procedure. I can't remember a time when Gray or Pace has outright lied, perhaps hide some truths, but not barefaced lies.

#36300384821 01/11/2008 12:31:10 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

PS10N wrote:

What kind of hardware does a free born use to jack in? Who would design such a rig?
What king of software does a free born use to jack in? Who would write such code?
What experts have gone missing recently and who Awakened them; why and for what?

He's using a revolutionary new program called "The Matrix Online".

#36300384843 01/11/2008 13:09:21 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Remember the Anome sim? How much it was like the original Anome, and almost as powerful?

Didn't Unlimit have some sort of plan pertaining to certain bluepill organizations?

It's just loose enough to work...

#36300384856 01/11/2008 13:45:27 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

ThePigeonKing wrote:

The Leo wrote:
This might seem silly but what if the intruder is actually on some kind of qest set by the machines to become the new architect, who will create a flawless new matrix which won't need the One and won't have the 1% of people leaving...

This is close to the theory I have; Intruder was set to be some sort of Architect in the next version of the Matrix and, because of what Neo did, the production of his version is obviously delayed. Maybe he's looking for Neo thinking he still has the "the one" code so he can reinsert him into the Source and everyone can move on to the next version.

This isn't that bad of a theory, I found it interesting when the Intruder said, "I could have you deleted." It could just be that he could delete the Architect himself, but he could also mean "I'm more important than you, I can have people come delete you for insubordination." However, I would think it odd that a new Architect would know so little about the current Matrix.

#36300384864 01/11/2008 13:54:50 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

MotorZ wrote:

ThePigeonKing wrote:
The Leo wrote:
This might seem silly but what if the intruder is actually on some kind of qest set by the machines to become the new architect, who will create a flawless new matrix which won't need the One and won't have the 1% of people leaving...

This is close to the theory I have; Intruder was set to be some sort of Architect in the next version of the Matrix and, because of what Neo did, the production of his version is obviously delayed. Maybe he's looking for Neo thinking he still has the "the one" code so he can reinsert him into the Source and everyone can move on to the next version.
This isn't that bad of a theory, I found it interesting when the Intruder said, "I could have you deleted." It could just be that he could delete the Architect himself, but he could also mean "I'm more important than you, I can have people come delete you for insubordination." However, I would think it odd that a new Architect would know so little about the current Matrix.

I can't remember if the Architect talks in 3rd person about creating the matrix in the 2rd movie or 1st person. If not himself then maybe he is actually just watching over everything...

#36300384888 01/11/2008 14:37:08 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

The Leo wrote:

MotorZ wrote:
ThePigeonKing wrote:
The Leo wrote:
This might seem silly but what if the intruder is actually on some kind of qest set by the machines to become the new architect, who will create a flawless new matrix which won't need the One and won't have the 1% of people leaving...

This is close to the theory I have; Intruder was set to be some sort of Architect in the next version of the Matrix and, because of what Neo did, the production of his version is obviously delayed. Maybe he's looking for Neo thinking he still has the "the one" code so he can reinsert him into the Source and everyone can move on to the next version.
This isn't that bad of a theory, I found it interesting when the Intruder said, "I could have you deleted." It could just be that he could delete the Architect himself, but he could also mean "I'm more important than you, I can have people come delete you for insubordination." However, I would think it odd that a new Architect would know so little about the current Matrix.
I can't remember if the Architect talks in 3rd person about creating the matrix in the 2rd movie or 1st person. If not himself then maybe he is actually just watching over everything...

I think 3rd person because he says "I was once again, frustrated by failure..." after describing the failure of the second Matrix.

#36300384891 01/11/2008 14:42:24 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

The Leo wrote:

MotorZ wrote:
ThePigeonKing wrote:
The Leo wrote:
This might seem silly but what if the intruder is actually on some kind of qest set by the machines to become the new architect, who will create a flawless new matrix which won't need the One and won't have the 1% of people leaving...

This is close to the theory I have; Intruder was set to be some sort of Architect in the next version of the Matrix and, because of what Neo did, the production of his version is obviously delayed. Maybe he's looking for Neo thinking he still has the "the one" code so he can reinsert him into the Source and everyone can move on to the next version.
This isn't that bad of a theory, I found it interesting when the Intruder said, "I could have you deleted." It could just be that he could delete the Architect himself, but he could also mean "I'm more important than you, I can have people come delete you for insubordination." However, I would think it odd that a new Architect would know so little about the current Matrix.
I can't remember if the Architect talks in 3rd person about creating the matrix in the 2rd movie or 1st person. If not himself then maybe he is actually just watching over everything...

Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix.

#36300384910 01/11/2008 15:23:13 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

ThePigeonKing wrote:

The Leo wrote:
MotorZ wrote:
ThePigeonKing wrote:
The Leo wrote:
This might seem silly but what if the intruder is actually on some kind of qest set by the machines to become the new architect, who will create a flawless new matrix which won't need the One and won't have the 1% of people leaving...

This is close to the theory I have; Intruder was set to be some sort of Architect in the next version of the Matrix and, because of what Neo did, the production of his version is obviously delayed. Maybe he's looking for Neo thinking he still has the "the one" code so he can reinsert him into the Source and everyone can move on to the next version.
This isn't that bad of a theory, I found it interesting when the Intruder said, "I could have you deleted." It could just be that he could delete the Architect himself, but he could also mean "I'm more important than you, I can have people come delete you for insubordination." However, I would think it odd that a new Architect would know so little about the current Matrix.
I can't remember if the Architect talks in 3rd person about creating the matrix in the 2rd movie or 1st person. If not himself then maybe he is actually just watching over everything...
Architect: Hello, Neo.
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix.

No no I meant when he said about when he/they failed with the different instances of the matrix.

#36300384924 01/11/2008 15:45:26 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

I could see where the Intruder would be something like the "New and Improved Architect" although still something just doesn't jibe with that. I mean if the Architect was around for the other previous versions of the Matrix, I'm sure he would be around for any other upcoming versions.

But because of Neo's choice, things are different now.

That is true, but still I get this feeling that this Intruder is just something the Machines see as a tool and not the actual creative hands of the Matrix.

Or maybe not...

A theory or a suspicion that I have always had is that the Architect is not the sole governing body of the Machines. Like every program, the Architect performs within his function. His function, so far as I have seen has been more on the upkeep and care of The Matrix also he seems to serve as some sort of "messenger" to those programs under his command.

This leaves the Intruder and who he might be and his function, and that is going to be the most difficult question (with the evidence we have so far) to answer. We know that the Intruder is more powerful than your average Agent, also he seems to be searching for someone (although who exactly is up for grabs). We also see that he can be haughty, issue threats and is determined to carry out his goal.

Whether or not his attitude is something of false self perception remains to be seen. The Architect did not seemed to be worried about the Intruder's threats of deletion (although from the cinematic, that's not really all too clear, I'm just relying on the dialog).

That leaves another question if the Architect is genuinely threatened by the Intruder, or is the Architect is just stringing the Intruder along, feeding into his ego just for the end result. The Architect can be just as crafty and tricky as the Merv and I think we may just see some "Merv-like" qualities in the Architect just yet. Anyway just some thoughts I wanted to throw out, I am anxious to see where this goes ! SMILEY

#36300385014 01/11/2008 19:08:15 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

I think it's rather brilliant how information on the Intruder has been bled out slowly through so many different outlets that very few people have enough idea what's going on to draw a complete picture of the situation. Well done Rarebit.

#36300385032 01/11/2008 19:29:08 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

GypsyJuggler wrote:

I think it's rather brilliant how information on the Intruder has been bled out slowly through so many different outlets that very few people have enough idea what's going on to draw a complete picture of the situation. Well done Rarebit.

((that's why I do all 3 crits every week and read all live events to attempt to have some grasp. this intruder stuff is still a little difficult to figure out anyway))

I'd agree with Crimson that the Architect is not the sole governing body. It seems more like he is just more of a head of the Matrix, but outside the Matrix, he's just another piece of the puzzle.

Hmm...dunno why I did that first part here OOC. This cinematic probably isn't something our characters would actually know about.

#36300385062 01/11/2008 20:58:19 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

I doubt The Intruder is going to be the New Architect, because, he's human, and an Architect would have to be a Program.

#36300385119 01/11/2008 23:11:53 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

MotorZ wrote:

I'd agree with Crimson that the Architect is not the sole governing body. It seems more like he is just more of a head of the Matrix, but outside the Matrix, he's just another piece of the puzzle.

I think alot of people just assumed that the Architect is the main man in charge of everything in the machine world. He only said that he built the matrix. The Architect is a man who would clearly state "I am the machines. I am the Source" or something slightly less grandiose.

I still think the Intruder, with his One like powers to control/delete programs on a whim, exiled or not, is tied strongly to the Machine Source

#36300385169 01/12/2008 03:12:09 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

MetaLogic wrote:

I doubt The Intruder is going to be the New Architect, because, he's human, and an Architect would have to be a Program.

That's exactly my point. If he is human it will remove the 1% of people realizing what the matrix is.

#36300385235 01/12/2008 07:58:01 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

I think the intruder is the personification of the source. Maybe the source was making the next version of the matrix when Neo went all sideways and broke the circle, leaving the source with a Matrix that is higher then this version's but no way to implement it. That would reinforce the theorys that he is looking, to reinsert his code and move on with the implementation of the next version. And notice his wording in the cinematic "Or i'd have you deleted." He doesn't say HE would delete the Architect himself, only that he would have him deleted. That implies he has some sort authority, that or he would get someone else to do it.

And I do remember Agent Grey saying that the Intruder is a free born hacking in, but that really doesn't make any sense. How does a freeborn hacking in have access to the next version's code? And if it was someone like Locke then why would he *CENSORED* around trying to find someone instead of just bring down the system like he wants to? It doesn't add up. If it is a free born it isn't locke, and given that he is currently the only un-accounted for freeborn (we are aware of), then we have to be introduced to this mystery person.

Of course there is that bluepill that was supposedly conditioned for life outside a pod, and then the machine lost all track of him. Perhaps he has something to do with this.

#36300385285 01/12/2008 10:19:01 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

sontag wrote:

I think the intruder is the personification of the source.

But he is human. Source: Friday's live event on Recursion.

#36300385295 01/12/2008 10:42:09 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

I suppose I'll chime in here with my thoughts, though most of what I think has been covered already.

The Architect did create the Matrix, and I don't think we'll be seeing him "replaced" in future iterations. I'm sure he may receive upgrades or assimilate new information from time to time, which is something he had to do to "understand" the need for new versions of The Matrix, even if he doesn't completely understand the humans in them. But, of course, then the question is who created the creator. I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the Intruder, being a freeborn human somehow able to jack into the Matrix, is part of the controlling force outside of The Matrix itself. Possibly a human / machine coalition governing the system for the time being while troubles outside of the system are resolved. It's easy enough to see how some human members of this coalition could get agitated with the situation and take a negative stance against the Machines and could look to disrupt things.. hence we have the Intruder. The ability to jack in may not be anything special at all, but simply just access to some sort of technology only available to the humans in this coalition.

But that still leaves the question of the Auditor's statements about the Intruder being from a higher version of The Matrix and thus incompatible with this one. Of course, that could simply have been a conclusion he made based on what he knew and saw as opposed to a conclusion based on the truth.

#36300385307 01/12/2008 11:29:38 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was never actually stated that the Intruder is from a higher version of the Matrix. They discovered that his code was a higher version than the one currently used in the Matrix. All that means is that the code the Intruder uses was programmed after the current version of the Matrix was programmed.

His code could have been used for anything: a new Matrix, new Machine firmware, his jacking in station... whatever. It's just a newer version of the programming language the Machines use for their various applications.

#36300385371 01/12/2008 13:11:07 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Procurator wrote:

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was never actually stated that the Intruder is from a higher version of the Matrix. They discovered that his code was a higher version than the one currently used in the Matrix. All that means is that the code the Intruder uses was programmed after the current version of the Matrix was programmed.
His code could have been used for anything: a new Matrix, new Machine firmware, his jacking in station... whatever. It's just a newer version of the programming language the Machines use for their various applications.

Auditor: His code is not compatible with the System.
Auditor: It is the wrong version.
Auditor: Meaning analysis is not my function. The number is a higher iteration. That is all I know of it.
From this event.

While the suggestion of a new matrix was very strong at the time, you could well be right.

#36300385392 01/12/2008 13:46:54 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Thanks. Yeah, I think maybe the term 'iteration' got people thinking the Intruder was from the next Matrix. The word 'iteration' is not, however, solely applied to Matrices. For example, Fortran 2003 is a higher iteration than Fortran 95. I reckon the Auditor was just talking about the Intruder's code, not the environment in which that code was meant to work.

#36300385876 01/13/2008 16:30:46 Re:Cinematic 9.2 discussion SPOILERS

Good point....