[8.3.5] "All my work will be lost" - Syntax - 11/14/07

I love it when people come in thinking there opinion is right/truth and force it on you.

Funny, I was just pointing that out here --  http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300018789 -- and immediately afterwards someone gave an example of doing just that.

Illyria

The trick is to not try and speak on behalf of everyone. Generalization is a *CENSORED*, you claim one side thinks this way and thats it, when in reality we don't know everyone, we don't know how everyone thinks, and actully I doubt we truely can know how one single person thinks. Speak on behalf of yourself only and stop trying to generalize everyone else. You only end up pissing people off, looking like a fool, and starting seven page long arguements in multi colors.

Want to share your views fine but don't force them. As Karl Popper put it "No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude". You can't expect a Machine to suddently addapt a EPN belief system, or a Zionite a Merv's. All you can do is explain why you believe what you do, show evidence to support it, and answer questions that get asked. Change wont happen by force only by the willingness to accept it.

If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites. What's said was said. You can accept it, or you can reject it - that's your choice. I don't have the power to force anything on anyone. But I do have the power to put truth and logic out there for the accepting rational minds to see.

If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites.

That's the difference between our two organizations -- I never begrudged anyone their choice to work for Zion or the Merovingian, and I would never want to force anyone to join my org, even if I had that power. 

Zion has been indignant that not every redpill wants to stay with them ever since the truce went into effect.  (Check out the archived early missions for evidence of this...heck, even the introductory missions from Tyndall before the truce ended make it obvious that Zion looks down on anyone that leaves them.)

Illyria

Neoteny wrote:

If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites.

That's the difference between our two organizations -- I never begrudged anyone their choice to work for Zion or the Merovingian, and I would never want to force anyone to join my org, even if I had that power. 

Zion has been indignant that not every redpill wants to stay with them ever since the truce went into effect.  (Check out the archived early missions for evidence of this...heck, even the introductory missions from Tyndall before the truce ended make it obvious that Zion looks down on anyone that leaves them.)

Illyria

Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you''ll find a few that really didn't want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was who may be offended that you write them off so easily. Machiniest aren't the only one's looking for Pecace you know.

Quiet! You're not supposed to say things that make sense. Nor are you supposed to tell people that we think for ourselves and have our own viewpoints about things that aren't controlled by the commander or the council. We all have to be war mongering, chaotic, self-destroying heathens because we don't want to be controlled by the Machines. Nothing more.

Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you''ll find a few that really didn't want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was who may be offended that you write them off so easily. Machiniest aren't the only one's looking for Pecace you know.

It's too bad that Zion's leaders didn't listen to those who wanted peace. 

Illyria

GamiSB wrote:

Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you''ll find a few that really didn't want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was who may be offended that you write them off so easily. Machiniest aren't the only one's looking for Pecace you know.

It's too bad that Zion's leaders didn't listen to those who wanted peace. 

Illyria

And its too bad that the Machine didn't listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple.

Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn't going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn't going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can't compromise and figure out a way for us both to live in peace on equal terms.

Illyria22 wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you''ll find a few that really didn't want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was who may be offended that you write them off so easily. Machiniest aren't the only one's looking for Pecace you know.

It's too bad that Zion's leaders didn't listen to those who wanted peace. 

Illyria

And its too bad that the Machine didn't listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple.

Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn't going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn't going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can't compromise and figure out a way for us both to lvie in peace without equal terms.

GamiSB wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you''ll find a few that really didn't want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was who may be offended that you write them off so easily. Machiniest aren't the only one's looking for Pecace you know.

It's too bad that Zion's leaders didn't listen to those who wanted peace. 

Illyria

And its too bad that the Machine didn't listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple.

Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn't going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn't going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can't compromise and figure out a way for us both to lvie in peace without equal terms.

As good as that sounds on paper, it seems and sounds way to easy than what really has to be done. Compromising on both sides results in someone reaching into some else's cookie jar either way. I believe if there is to be peace on both sides, there needs to be know compromising done, just connection. Try to connect each way of living together. We live in feelings, hope, love, fear. The machines live in logic and numbers. Some how we have to find a way to live in them altogether, not shortening anyone's stack ya know. IF that is even possible.

NiChO wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Stop pooling all of Zion into one giant anti-Machine group. you''ll find a few that really didn't want this war and are trying to get it back to how it was who may be offended that you write them off so easily. Machiniest aren't the only one's looking for Pecace you know.

It's too bad that Zion's leaders didn't listen to those who wanted peace. 

Illyria

And its too bad that the Machine didn't listen to those that wanted them to cut ties with the Cypherites or overwriteing poeple.

Past is in the past, live for the present and plan for the future. This war isn't going to stop if both sides keeping bringing up the past. It isn't going to end if no one learns to get over it. And we will never have peace if both sides can't compromise and figure out a way for us both to lvie in peace without equal terms.

As good as that sounds on paper, it seems and sounds way to easy than what really has to be done. Compromising on both sides results in someone reaching into some else's cookie jar either way. I believe if there is to be peace on both sides, there needs to be know compromising done, just connection. Try to connect each way of living together. We live in feelings, hope, love, fear. The machines live in logic and numbers. Some how we have to find a way to live in them altogether, not shortening anyone's stack ya know. IF that is even possible.

Heres an idea... One Mech.. One Zion... Use opposite hands and grab a cookie from each others jar at the same time on the count of 3... Hand from both sides is in the jar for apprx 5 seconds to find a cookie. If one is found snatch it take it out... If not.. wel then the side with no cookies in there jar better pay up.. I spent mass amounts on those ingredients.. XD

Neoteny wrote:

If I had the power to force my opinion, there would be no Machinists, no Cypherites.

That's the difference between our two organizations -- I never begrudged anyone their choice to work for Zion or the Merovingian, and I would never want to force anyone to join my org, even if I had that power. 

Zion has been indignant that not every redpill wants to stay with them ever since the truce went into effect.  (Check out the archived early missions for evidence of this...heck, even the introductory missions from Tyndall before the truce ended make it obvious that Zion looks down on anyone that leaves them.)

Or maybe I'd rather not kill human beings. Maybe I'd rather not have other human beings trying to kill me. I've always had a problem with Cypherites. Why? They jump our ships and murder our operatives. I figure that's a good reason for me to want there to be no Cypherites, yeah?

I don't have any inherent problems with Merovingian operatives and I'll be goddamned if you tell me that I didn't work with Machinists to support the Truce in its time. I had a bunch of friends who worked for the Machines, and it's sad what's happened. But they've started killing our operatives, too, as seen here.

Now, is it so wrong for me to wish that there were no human beings working against us, killing our operatives? Is it so wrong for me to wish that I had no human enemies?

But I don't have that kind of power - which was my point - and I'll have to work to kill Machinists and Cypherites. That's just how this game is going to work, isn't it?

If you continue to intrude in the Matrix, yes.  At least until another truce is declared.

Illyria