[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

123 posts · 2007-08-09 22:26:08 to 2007-09-05 22:49:36

#36300302850 08/13/2007 08:08:37 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Roukan wrote:
I understand the reasoning behind it too, but it still doesn't make it right. The hypocrasy here is astounding with Illyria's case. As someone stated before, killing Agents in self defense is a bad bad naughty move, but killing an innocent bluepill is not.

I'd like to see what Fanaticism and prejudice we've stated. Certainly not I, yet you choose to generalize. Please.


There is a difference between gathering in a group and luring agents out so you can kill them (and their bluepill hosts) for sport and killing a single target for a militarily advantageous reason.  Calling the agent/bluepill killings self defense is laughable, because the redpills are in no real danger.

I see fanaticism and prejudice every time I see things like "Zion is humanity" and "I don't consider the bluepills to be human" and "godd@mn toasters" and "Machine b1tch". 

Illyria

#36300302867 08/13/2007 08:48:30 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Merchant wrote:
You're missing one very obvious point. Well two maybe. I don't recall the Merovingian's learning anything about the power sources other then that they think it's a flawed assumption. Nothing really concrete there, though there could be new events I could be mistaken as I haven't been in the simulation a lot lately. Secondly, Zion and new Zion are both built in specific sites utilizing thermal energy from the earth itself. Sure the Earth is big, but just how much do you think you could tamper with nature even more so then humanity already has. Just how many locations are ideal to be able to power cities the magnitude of Zion, and new Zion through thermal, geo-thermal, and other such power types? Saying we could build more cities is easy. Finding ideal locations is the hard part. Oh and on a really obvious point, regarding power, to have left humanity alone would have doomed the machine civilization, even after their militaries were wiped out. Because their militaries made sure that they no longer had their plentiful powersource, the sun.

You seem to know alot about how Zion was built yet I see nothing but your words and no proof it but I'll play along. First your not figureing deaths into the equation and still useing billions with your assumptions. The amount of time that would have to pass to bring us to the point where we were crampd for space underground is hard to comprehend if you figure into it deaths and every other variable. 100 years on steady awakenings and Zion was hardly near the breaking point and thats counting the free borns.

As for the Machines power, again, get some merv contacts. The human body apparently is not capable of produceing enough energy no matter what kind of fusion used.


#36300303262 08/14/2007 00:56:24 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
I have Merovingian contacts, but thank you for the suggestion perhaps I'll try to get more. As to why I know a lot of Zion I'd have thought it would be rather apparent. I was Zion for over a year. In that time I did my best to learn everything about who I worked for. Zion was annihiliated six times, according to your own words, and in fact according to the historical archives provided. So many awakenings followed by how many restarts of a couple dozen people left alive by the One's choosing each time. Not only that, but if you recall more awakenings happened in the six months that Neo was with Morpheus, directly quoted from Morpheus himself, then Zion had been able to do in years. Furthermore, I don't really see you providing any proof for any of your arguments, while I try to explain mine in a clear, concise, and objective manner, generally using what historical data we have available. In fact, you seem to be moving on to different ones. Or deleting them. But again, back on topic, the population. I based my argument off Morpheus' quote, on what do you base your assumption? Also, as you have been eluding to quite frequently, the Morpheus program wasn't quite able to elaborate on the fields of humans. So, your call.
#36300303353 08/14/2007 12:39:03 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

Well apparently you don't use them as much as you should. The context of these quotes is the Merovingian sending out operatives to interview Raini, a former program that oversaw the fission process before she exiled and the machines switched to fusion. And Silver a known expert researcher for his opinion on if the human body could produce enough energy to fuel a city.

Raini: Oh, poo! You're no fun. All right, all right... Lemme tell you, anyone who talks up fusion is usually a pipe-dreamer. Yeah, so fusion of deuterium produces more power than fission of an equivalent amount of uranium, results in less radioactive waste... But do you know what it takes to get fusion to work? You've got to hit the Lawson triple product, you need some kind of containment: plasma, or magnetic, maybe... Well anyway, it isn't easy! I don't see why the Machines would go with fusion over fission - it's not like they're worried about polluting or anything.

Silver: No, no, no... It doesn't matter what kind of fusion they may have come up with; even if it does utilize some type of biological reaction, there's no getting around the fact that the most perfectly - and I use that term relatively - conditioned human body is only about twenty five percent energy-efficient; the units dredged out of the pods can hardly can hardly be said to be in peak physical condition. Even if they could siphon off most of the energy produced - and I think we can admit that they must save most of the twenty percent of it normally used for brain function - they're still losing a significant amount of power in your flabby carcasses!

If you still believe that there isn't more to it then just "humans supply the power" after reading those two quotes then this discussion ends here.


You still have yet to show and proof for your own statements that Zion and New Zion were built using thermal energy. (I ask for it because for the life of me I don't remember that ever being said or explained ever). As for Morpheus' quote it has nothing to do with the city becoming cramped and running out of room or supplies. He was commenting on that fact that Neo had created an increase of awakenings within the Matrix and that the Machines were becoming worried. Actually that quotes leans in my favor when used in its proper context because from the fifth attack of Zion up until now the city has held us all without any problems other then its defenses. That's counting the massive serge of awakenings done once the truce was implemented. Why this is so and where is my proof of it? Well look around Zion for starters and you don't see people overwhelmingly crowded while walking through its streets, in desperate need of food, and multiplying at an out of control rates. Three clear signs of over population. Second do some research on things such as methods of population control, birth and death rates, and such and they will show you exactly why the over population of Zion let alone both New Zion won't come till hundreds of years from now which is ample time to find a location and build another city.

If I am moving on to different topics I'm sorry but I have merely been replying in segments to topics you had already brought up.


#36300303404 08/14/2007 15:23:58 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Hmm.. I must say that was very helpful.
#36300303642 08/14/2007 22:45:14 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Understandable. My view on Zion's population was geared toward a Machine file hackable from a mission that I once ran, detailing that Zion, the original, and this was oh, I'd say at least half a year back, was reaching it's full capacity based on an assessment of it's design by the Machines. I should have detailed all the sources I was using, one was the Architect detailing how there had been several Zion's, including the small number that Neo would be allowed to keep alive, another was the Morpheus quote, but I was also using that file I just mentioned which detailed they would soon reach full capacity. When coupled with another file that you could hack from a computer on the Machine side from an even earlier mission, the one detailing how Zion could not account for several thousand tons worth of machinery and materials, it was obvious that a base was being constructed, or that it was merely a matter of time before it was made. I always try to incorporate all the sources I come across, no matter how old.
#36300303654 08/14/2007 23:06:25 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Ah, thank you very much for that and its very helpful indeed. If what they say is true then I must admit then that we won't have hundreds of cities around the earths core at any time soon. However I stand by saying the with there only being roughly 60 million potentials within the Matrix and the average birth, death, and extraction rates rates, Zion and New Zion are not likely to be at risk of over population. Expecaily now that we have a war going on, it tends to lessen the number of redpills in Zion a bit.

#36300303814 08/15/2007 08:02:02 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
GamiSB wrote:
However I stand by saying the with there only being roughly 600k potentials within the Matrix

One percent of 6 billion is 60 million, not 600 thousand.

Illyria

#36300303832 08/15/2007 08:40:20 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Woops, forgot an extra zero.

#36300309879 08/24/2007 10:43:21 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
GamiSB wrote:

Well apparently you don't use them as much as you should. The context of these quotes is the Merovingian sending out operatives to interview Raini, a former program that oversaw the fission process before she exiled and the machines switched to fusion. And Silver a known expert researcher for his opinion on if the human body could produce enough energy to fuel a city.

Raini: Oh, poo! You're no fun. All right, all right... Lemme tell you, anyone who talks up fusion is usually a pipe-dreamer. Yeah, so fusion of deuterium produces more power than fission of an equivalent amount of uranium, results in less radioactive waste... But do you know what it takes to get fusion to work? You've got to hit the Lawson triple product, you need some kind of containment: plasma, or magnetic, maybe... Well anyway, it isn't easy! I don't see why the Machines would go with fusion over fission - it's not like they're worried about polluting or anything.

Silver: No, no, no... It doesn't matter what kind of fusion they may have come up with; even if it does utilize some type of biological reaction, there's no getting around the fact that the most perfectly - and I use that term relatively - conditioned human body is only about twenty five percent energy-efficient; the units dredged out of the pods can hardly can hardly be said to be in peak physical condition. Even if they could siphon off most of the energy produced - and I think we can admit that they must save most of the twenty percent of it normally used for brain function - they're still losing a significant amount of power in your flabby carcasses!

If you still believe that there isn't more to it then just "humans supply the power" after reading those two quotes then this discussion ends here.


Whilst I can't disagree with these two... people... after all, I am no expert on any of these fields. However, one who got exiled because the Machines preferred fusion over fission, and another who hates human beings and may have his own agenda...
It is remarkable how you would take these comments at face value....
#36300315636 09/02/2007 16:30:38 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Heh. In the end, Pace's ordering of a bluepill, guilty only of the crime of thinking that there's something wrong about the world around him, to be killed, is pretty *CENSORED* hilarious.
#36300316051 09/03/2007 12:40:16 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
TheMagus wrote:
Heh. In the end, Pace's ordering of a bluepill, guilty only of the crime of thinking that there's something wrong about the world around him, to be killed, is pretty *CENSORED* hilarious.

I don't think that any situation where a bluepill is killed is particularly funny, even if it was deemed by the system as a necessary step in trying to end this war as quickly as possible thus preventing more death.
#36300316055 09/03/2007 12:48:29 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Croesus wrote:
GamiSB wrote:

Well apparently you don't use them as much as you should. The context of these quotes is the Merovingian sending out operatives to interview Raini, a former program that oversaw the fission process before she exiled and the machines switched to fusion. And Silver a known expert researcher for his opinion on if the human body could produce enough energy to fuel a city.

Raini: Oh, poo! You're no fun. All right, all right... Lemme tell you, anyone who talks up fusion is usually a pipe-dreamer. Yeah, so fusion of deuterium produces more power than fission of an equivalent amount of uranium, results in less radioactive waste... But do you know what it takes to get fusion to work? You've got to hit the Lawson triple product, you need some kind of containment: plasma, or magnetic, maybe... Well anyway, it isn't easy! I don't see why the Machines would go with fusion over fission - it's not like they're worried about polluting or anything.

Silver: No, no, no... It doesn't matter what kind of fusion they may have come up with; even if it does utilize some type of biological reaction, there's no getting around the fact that the most perfectly - and I use that term relatively - conditioned human body is only about twenty five percent energy-efficient; the units dredged out of the pods can hardly can hardly be said to be in peak physical condition. Even if they could siphon off most of the energy produced - and I think we can admit that they must save most of the twenty percent of it normally used for brain function - they're still losing a significant amount of power in your flabby carcasses!

If you still believe that there isn't more to it then just "humans supply the power" after reading those two quotes then this discussion ends here.


Whilst I can't disagree with these two... people... after all, I am no expert on any of these fields. However, one who got exiled because the Machines preferred fusion over fission, and another who hates human beings and may have his own agenda...
It is remarkable how you would take these comments at face value....

Hardly, I try to take everything with a grain of salt expecting there to be some bias within it unintential or not. Fact remains though that this is a diffrent image then what the Machine has been painting for us and their explinations are a bit more "informative" then the Machines.

Are they true? Well that remains to be seen but it's foolish just to ignore what they say just because they have a history with the Machine. Every lie has a  bit of truth to it after all.


#36300316416 09/04/2007 06:41:59 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Croesus wrote:
TheMagus wrote:
Heh. In the end, Pace's ordering of a bluepill, guilty only of the crime of thinking that there's something wrong about the world around him, to be killed, is pretty *CENSORED* hilarious.

I don't think that any situation where a bluepill is killed is particularly funny, even if it was deemed by the system as a necessary step in trying to end this war as quickly as possible thus preventing more death.
It was a "laugh or cry" situation for me. Well, perhaps more "express extreme outrage and shock" than cry, but you get the picture.


#36300316509 09/04/2007 09:57:01 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Illyria22 wrote:
Roukan wrote:
I understand the reasoning behind it too, but it still doesn't make it right. The hypocrasy here is astounding with Illyria's case. As someone stated before, killing Agents in self defense is a bad bad naughty move, but killing an innocent bluepill is not.

I'd like to see what Fanaticism and prejudice we've stated. Certainly not I, yet you choose to generalize. Please.


There is a difference between gathering in a group and luring agents out so you can kill them (and their bluepill hosts) for sport and killing a single target for a militarily advantageous reason.  Calling the agent/bluepill killings self defense is laughable, because the redpills are in no real danger.

I see fanaticism and prejudice every time I see things like "Zion is humanity" and "I don't consider the bluepills to be human" and "godd@mn toasters" and "Machine b1tch". 

Illyria

You think I say those things? I say humanity must strive, bluepills are more important than reds, and that YOU'RE a *CENSORED*. Not machine *CENSORED*.

There is certainly no difference in luring an agent out to kill them, killing a bluepill straight out, or staying in a restricted zone, confusing an agent, and watching him drop dead due to systematic problems.

However, as Vincent says, it's best to ignore you. There's no point in arguing with someone who doesn't believe in honor.
#36300316592 09/04/2007 12:38:32 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

Your definition of honor is different than mine.

Illyria

#36300316605 09/04/2007 12:59:02 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Illyria22 wrote:

Your definition of honor is different than mine.

Illyria

Oh really now? So you believe in something other than working for the benefits of others?

Oh Doh, I just answered my own question, Ms. Bluepill Killer.
#36300316616 09/04/2007 13:21:43 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
honour

hon·or  [on-er]–noun
1. honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions: a man of honor.
2.
high respect, as for worth, merit, or rank: to be held in honor.


honour doesn't mean working for the benefit of others, it is as stated above.
I believe Illyria can be viewed as someone who has fulfilled these requirements.
Obviously I don't expect you to agree, you seem to view Honour as something completely different.
#36300316621 09/04/2007 13:27:11 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Oh and I hear that another Org has killed at least one Bluepill as a test subject...
#36300316626 09/04/2007 13:29:17 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

I heard that too.  But I can predict what Zion/EPN will say...

"It's ok, because they Died Free!"

Illyria

#36300316631 09/04/2007 13:32:01 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Illyria22 wrote:

I heard that too.  But I can predict what Zion/EPN will say...

"It's ok, because they Died Free!"

Illyria

What good is freedom if the people who 'rescue' you kill you whilst doing so due to their ignorance?
#36300316633 09/04/2007 13:33:21 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07

Maybe they think "Better dead than supplying power to the Machines"?

Illyria

#36300317703 09/05/2007 22:49:36 Re:[8.1.4] Mr. Manohar must be reconfigured - Recursion - 8/8/07
Oh, and just a little OOC update.

There have been a total of 18 Live Events since the last time Recursion Machinists had their last one.

Mind you, that is live events that have been posted. Syntax Machines just had another one tonight, and I believes theres another couple that have yet to be posted.

Fun stuff that.

Though it was fun that some people have the time to log onto mains, but not log onto their Liaisons...