[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

#36300284547 07/16/2007 21:07:22 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

Satta wrote:

Neoteny wrote:
Satta wrote:
Okay let's get back to the Matrix now. The only way to get there is together. But if Zion is unable or unwilling to quiet the radical Zionites who continue to be a threat to the Matrix and bluepills by attacking the Machines then we will take them out ourselves. We must rid this cancer in humanity so that humanity can live.

We don't attack the Machines, we don't have the means.
They attack us, and I'll be damned if we won't defend ourselves.
If that makes us all demons in your eyes, then so be it, I'd rather be alive and demonized than a dead saint.
((Man, I hope the brothers W. are reading this stuff, I think they'd finally see that this little project is easily living up to the franchise.))
Morpheus : The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see?
Business people, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy.
As long as people in Zion actually believe this crap TC will be there to protect bluepills from Zionites. I wish there was a TC presence before my father was killed by careless Zionites.
"Niobe, you were thankful that Neo bought you two years. But if you'd abided by the truce, he could have bought you *forever*." - Illyria
((I agree I wonder if the W brothers have even thought this type of debate could occur. This is the best thing for the Matrix since the game went live.))

Where did you get the impression that I was Morpheus, again?

#36300284664 07/17/2007 00:37:54 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

Illyria22 wrote:

Crossover wrote:
It has, is, and always will be Zion's agenda to promote freedom. . . and to defend it by any means she feels is necessary. When you have something as vital, as important and as precious as that to protect in your home, you can't afford to not be ready for any possible outcome. Its unfortunate not everyone is willing to understand the importance of that.

If I were a machinist I would be preaching to the machines with all my heart to not retract the truce simply because Zion's protecting herself. But thats just me. It's up to each individual to decide whether they believe New Zion is really this 'military build up' that the Machine is painting us out to be.

But keep in mind no one can be told what New Zion is...you have to see if for yourself.

The Machinists are not your keepers. We will not go to the Machines begging them to forgive you for doing something that your leaders *knew* would be construed as breaking the truce. If you want the truce back so badly, talk to them yourselves.
Illyria

Your own views on peace are pretty evident in that last post. But lets hope not all of the Machinists share this kind of selfish mindset. As for the keepers comment I have no idea where you got that impression. However, you make it painfully clear that you wouldn't do the same as me if I were in your shoes. Which is what I was actually alluding to my original post... SMILEY

See what I did there?

#36300284691 07/17/2007 01:40:22 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

I like the way that throughout this thread the allegation that the Machines started the war runs like a poisonous snake. May I remind you that a truce is only a temporary ceasefire within which time relations and bridges can be built, therefore the war was the same one that Man and Machines have always been fighting. Now if I may remind each and everyone of you, Humanity started the war against Machine kind out of petty jealousy and hatred.

The Machines had the capability to fight back and maintain the advantage over Humanity because our ancestors built them to be able to survive and to think logically. Humans go to war over resources, jealousy and hatred, Machines went to go for survival.

#36300284695 07/17/2007 01:47:16 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

funny how things go have an habit of going 180 on you.

#36300284713 07/17/2007 02:25:18 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

steadyhand wrote:

can some one show my any copy of the truce beucase i never got to see one

The Zion council agreed to the terms on behalf of Zion on the whole. If you, or any Zionite did not agree with the truce or you didn't know what the terms were, you should have asked. Ignorance is no excuse. It seems that you were quite content to live under it's protection for the last 2 years while it suited you.

In any case those in Zion who were aware of New Zion also knew that the building of a fortified city would go against the agreement. Niobe all but admitted this when she said that they almost kept a lid on the whole thing. If it wasn't against the truce, why the secrecy? The Architect called off the truce after Zion violated the terms of the agreement, and the Architect does not do such things on a whim.

#36300284826 07/17/2007 05:54:29 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

Let me quote article 16.7 of the truce.

16.7 - Zion is not to take advantage of the inept manner in which we manage the Earth including urinating on 01, leaving hcft's double parked or building cities.

And later point 25.1

25.1 - WMD's may only be hoarded following completion of form 101b and authorised by the electronic signature of Janitor Program Bob

Isn't machine authority cool they think of everything.....well except actually looking of course.

#36300285053 07/17/2007 11:41:39 Re:[8.1.1] We had to move because they had us dead to rights - Vector - 7/12/07

Crossover wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

The Machinists are not your keepers. We will not go to the Machines begging them to forgive you for doing something that your leaders *knew* would be construed as breaking the truce. If you want the truce back so badly, talk to them yourselves.
Illyria
Your own views on peace are pretty evident in that last post. But lets hope not all of the Machinists share this kind of selfish mindset. As for the keepers comment I have no idea where you got that impression. However, you make it painfully clear that you wouldn't do the same as me if I were in your shoes. Which is what I was actually alluding to my original post... See what I did there?

My views on peace have no bearing on what happens next. Zion command chose to commit acts they knew would lead to the end of the truce; and now Zion has to accept the consequences of those actions. As for myself? My patience has worn thin. It's hard to have sympathy for a group so self-destructive and seemingly so determined to commit mass suicide.

If and when Zion wants peace again, let them go to the Machines and offer to negotiate.

Illyria