In the Animatrix, mankind nuked 01 several time to try to get rid of the machines. The narrator said that the machines weren't affected because they weren't as frail as the humans. I mean I can understand that, I can buy that. However, machines are electrical devices, and any nuclear blast will have an EMP explosion. How did the machines survive the EMP blast? I know one theory is that they have optical wiring which isn't affected by an EMP blast, but if that's true, then how come they didn't put them in the squiggy?
Nuking of 01
25 posts · 2007-07-05 17:57:01 to 2008-10-09 03:56:28
You know ive always wondered that.
And in addition i can understand the zero effect of the radiation on the machines, but a nuclear explosion also generates intense heat which would by all means melt any toasters within the initial radius i would of expected.
And in addition i can understand the zero effect of the radiation on the machines, but a nuclear explosion also generates intense heat which would by all means melt any toasters within the initial radius i would of expected.
I think I've seen a thread like this pop up at least twice before. I believe either
1) The writers didn't know that their was an elecromagnetic pulse that comes with the detonation of an atmoic warhead
Or
2) Despite the nuclear assaults, the machines still managed to rebuild their city quickly enough to still be a threat.
I'm sure they had structures that were heavily shielded from EMP type attacks, it would make sense to have that on large structures.
1) The writers didn't know that their was an elecromagnetic pulse that comes with the detonation of an atmoic warhead
Or
2) Despite the nuclear assaults, the machines still managed to rebuild their city quickly enough to still be a threat.
I'm sure they had structures that were heavily shielded from EMP type attacks, it would make sense to have that on large structures.
Zudrag wrote:
It's also possible that many were sheltered from the immediate blast and the comment of them not being as frail as human referred to them surviving the after effects of the bombs.
I think I've seen a thread like this pop up at least twice before. I believe either
1) The writers didn't know that their was an elecromagnetic pulse that comes with the detonation of an atmoic warhead
Or
2) Despite the nuclear assaults, the machines still managed to rebuild their city quickly enough to still be a threat.
I'm sure they had structures that were heavily shielded from EMP type attacks, it would make sense to have that on large structures.
It's also possible that many were sheltered from the immediate blast and the comment of them not being as frail as human referred to them surviving the after effects of the bombs.
Electronic devices do not survive the continious radiation of a nuke, not speaking of the EMP. Even optic-eletronic can get destroyed by the radiation.
Also, if I had to eradicate a Machine town, I'd use an E-Bomb, not an A- or H-bomb. Although it's got the least explosive power, the power of the EMP is many times as great as that of a H-bomb.
Also, if I had to eradicate a Machine town, I'd use an E-Bomb, not an A- or H-bomb. Although it's got the least explosive power, the power of the EMP is many times as great as that of a H-bomb.
Any Machines that escaped the bomb radius would be okay, wouldn't they?
GoDGiVeR wrote:
Why would radiation effect electronic devices ? Doesn't radiation only effect organic cells ?
Electronic devices do not survive the continious radiation of a nuke, not speaking of the EMP. Even optic-eletronic can get destroyed by the radiation.
Also, if I had to eradicate a Machine town, I'd use an E-Bomb, not an A- or H-bomb. Although it's got the least explosive power, the power of the EMP is many times as great as that of a H-bomb.
Why would radiation effect electronic devices ? Doesn't radiation only effect organic cells ?
898989 wrote:
Intense radiation grills them
So I guess, the initial radiation would have been a problem o_O
GoDGiVeR wrote:Electronic devices do not survive the continious radiation of a nuke, not speaking of the EMP. Even optic-eletronic can get destroyed by the radiation.
Also, if I had to eradicate a Machine town, I'd use an E-Bomb, not an A- or H-bomb. Although it's got the least explosive power, the power of the EMP is many times as great as that of a H-bomb.
Why would radiation effect electronic devices ? Doesn't radiation only effect organic cells ?
Intense radiation grills them
So I guess, the initial radiation would have been a problem o_O
GoDGiVeR wrote:
898989 wrote:GoDGiVeR wrote:Electronic devices do not survive the continious radiation of a nuke, not speaking of the EMP. Even optic-eletronic can get destroyed by the radiation.
Also, if I had to eradicate a Machine town, I'd use an E-Bomb, not an A- or H-bomb. Although it's got the least explosive power, the power of the EMP is many times as great as that of a H-bomb.
Why would radiation effect electronic devices ? Doesn't radiation only effect organic cells ?
Intense radiation grills them
So I guess, the initial radiation would have been a problem o_O
Radiation does not cause heat from what I've herd Oo .... The heat from the atomic bomb, comes from the energy that is released from the splitting/fusion of the atoms, and THAT would grill the machines... But I don't think that the radiation that "flies around" in the area after the explosion exposes any heat.
898989 wrote:
GoDGiVeR wrote:Dunno how to explain. Haven't had physics in years ...898989 wrote:GoDGiVeR wrote:Electronic devices do not survive the continious radiation of a nuke, not speaking of the EMP. Even optic-eletronic can get destroyed by the radiation.
Also, if I had to eradicate a Machine town, I'd use an E-Bomb, not an A- or H-bomb. Although it's got the least explosive power, the power of the EMP is many times as great as that of a H-bomb.
Why would radiation effect electronic devices ? Doesn't radiation only effect organic cells ?
Intense radiation grills them
So I guess, the initial radiation would have been a problem o_O
Radiation does not cause heat from what I've herd Oo .... The heat from the atomic bomb, comes from the energy that is released from the splitting/fusion of the atoms, and THAT would grill the machines... But I don't think that the radiation that "flies around" in the area after the explosion exposes any heat.
Yes, the EMP would own the machines, and so would the explosion. But the irradiation of the area also kills a lot of people, not machines. After the Hiroshima attacks A LOT of people died of internal bleeding cause the lining of their stomach was destroyed by the radiation (Radiation affects cells that multiply quickly the worst, hence why hair and teeth and skin gets all sorts of F*cked up) and well, their stomach acid ate away at the wall and they died. The radiation wasn't bad enough to burn people to death (I don't think radiation actually causes intense heat, it's fission and fusion reactions that do, radiation is the byproduct and catalyst of such reactions, and after detonating a nuclear device I doubt you could find much Uranium/Plutonium around for any significant reaction to occur), hence it wouldn't even be close to bad enough to destroy machines.
Farther out from the Epicenter of a nuclear explosion a lot of the people on the outskirts die a few weeks later from radiation poisoning, another thing machines wouldn't really be worried about. And yes while there is radiation flying about, Beta radiation (Electrons, which could affect circuits) doesn't get too far, heck it can't make it through a thin sheet of metal.
So yes, big explosion and EMP would kill machines, but resulting irradiation of area (Which accounts for A LOT of lives) does not.
They could also be referring to infrastructure. After a city gets nuked you probly have a couple of million survivors who need to be relocated, fed, clothed, sheltered and attended to medically. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how much of a task that would be, especially with all the people dying of radiation poisoning and the subsequent irradiation of the area making rescue attempts even worse.
Machines wouldn't have as many of those considerations. It's far easier to fix a robot than a person, and they wouldn't require as much aid as people nor would they be hampered by said irradiation of area.
I think the two above points are the main things that made us fragile compared to the machines.
Farther out from the Epicenter of a nuclear explosion a lot of the people on the outskirts die a few weeks later from radiation poisoning, another thing machines wouldn't really be worried about. And yes while there is radiation flying about, Beta radiation (Electrons, which could affect circuits) doesn't get too far, heck it can't make it through a thin sheet of metal.
So yes, big explosion and EMP would kill machines, but resulting irradiation of area (Which accounts for A LOT of lives) does not.
They could also be referring to infrastructure. After a city gets nuked you probly have a couple of million survivors who need to be relocated, fed, clothed, sheltered and attended to medically. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how much of a task that would be, especially with all the people dying of radiation poisoning and the subsequent irradiation of the area making rescue attempts even worse.
Machines wouldn't have as many of those considerations. It's far easier to fix a robot than a person, and they wouldn't require as much aid as people nor would they be hampered by said irradiation of area.
I think the two above points are the main things that made us fragile compared to the machines.
Radiation is just waves of energy in the electromagnetic spectrum, or particle Radiation
Radiation that produces heat is called Microwaves, which is obviously what is used in a Microwave due to the metal structures Microwaves would easily heat the surrounding area but that all depends on how resistant the Machines are to the effects of heat.
Ionizing Radiation like X-rays, Ultraviolet and Gamma Rays would definetally not have an effect on the Machines due to the fact that they alter the form of cells which break the bonds of the DNA causing Genetic diseases and Cancer in most cases.
Alpha Particles are a group of 2 Protons and 2 Neutrons, it's a large clump of atoms that would be unable to penetrate the metal shell. Beta particles is just a single electron and would also be unable to penetrate the Shell. Neutron Radiation though is a different matter, Long term bombardment with Neutron Radiation would cause dislocations in materials and make the Machine structures become brittle.
In the Case of an EMP I'm sure that the Machines would have developed something similar to a Faraday Cage which is simply an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields.
Radiation that produces heat is called Microwaves, which is obviously what is used in a Microwave
due to the metal structures Microwaves would easily heat the surrounding area but that all depends on how resistant the Machines are to the effects of heat.Ionizing Radiation like X-rays, Ultraviolet and Gamma Rays would definetally not have an effect on the Machines due to the fact that they alter the form of cells which break the bonds of the DNA causing Genetic diseases and Cancer in most cases.
Alpha Particles are a group of 2 Protons and 2 Neutrons, it's a large clump of atoms that would be unable to penetrate the metal shell. Beta particles is just a single electron and would also be unable to penetrate the Shell. Neutron Radiation though is a different matter, Long term bombardment with Neutron Radiation would cause dislocations in materials and make the Machine structures become brittle.
In the Case of an EMP I'm sure that the Machines would have developed something similar to a Faraday Cage which is simply an enclosure formed by conducting material, or by a mesh of such material. Such an enclosure blocks out external static electrical fields.
898989 wrote:
Radiation does not cause heat from what I've herd Oo .... The heat from the atomic bomb, comes from the energy that is released from the splitting/fusion of the atoms, and THAT would grill the machines... But I don't think that the radiation that "flies around" in the area after the explosion exposes any heat.Radiation. Heat that 'flies around' is called radiation.
GypsyJuggler wrote:
eer... thank you for that but I only wanted to explain to GG that the radiation after the explosion would not have "grilled" the machines, but the HEAT that gets released from the fusion or splitting of the atoms would have.
898989 wrote:Radiation does not cause heat from what I've herd Oo .... The heat from the atomic bomb, comes from the energy that is released from the splitting/fusion of the atoms, and THAT would grill the machines... But I don't think that the radiation that "flies around" in the area after the explosion exposes any heat.Radiation. Heat that 'flies around' is called radiation.
eer... thank you for that but I only wanted to explain to GG that the radiation after the explosion would not have "grilled" the machines, but the HEAT that gets released from the fusion or splitting of the atoms would have.
898989 wrote:
GypsyJuggler wrote:Fusion is 2 atoms coming together, Splitting of atoms is called Fission mate898989 wrote:Radiation does not cause heat from what I've herd Oo .... The heat from the atomic bomb, comes from the energy that is released from the splitting/fusion of the atoms, and THAT would grill the machines... But I don't think that the radiation that "flies around" in the area after the explosion exposes any heat.Radiation. Heat that 'flies around' is called radiation.
eer... thank you for that but I only wanted to explain to GG that the radiation after the explosion would not have "grilled" the machines, but the HEAT that gets released from the fusion or splitting of the atoms would have.
MetaLogic wrote:
lol Maybe they missed.
In the Animatrix, mankind nuked 01 several time to try to get rid of the machines. The narrator said that the machines weren't affected because they weren't as frail as the humans. I mean I can understand that, I can buy that. However, machines are electrical devices, and any nuclear blast will have an EMP explosion. How did the machines survive the EMP blast? I know one theory is that they have optical wiring which isn't affected by an EMP blast, but if that's true, then how come they didn't put them in the squiggy?Pilots... Learn2Aim, thank you.
lol Maybe they missed.pack-hunter wrote:
898989 wrote:GypsyJuggler wrote:Fusion is 2 atoms coming together, Splitting of atoms is called Fission mate898989 wrote:Radiation does not cause heat from what I've herd Oo .... The heat from the atomic bomb, comes from the energy that is released from the splitting/fusion of the atoms, and THAT would grill the machines... But I don't think that the radiation that "flies around" in the area after the explosion exposes any heat.Radiation. Heat that 'flies around' is called radiation.
eer... thank you for that but I only wanted to explain to GG that the radiation after the explosion would not have "grilled" the machines, but the HEAT that gets released from the fusion or splitting of the atoms would have.
Yes and a atomic bomb can either be triggered by a FUSION or a SPLITTING/FISSION of the Atom(s)
It is my understanding that EMP does not effect electrical systems if they are shielded by even a thin piece of metal ie. a Faraday cage, as previously mentioned. Knowing the past history of man, these precautions would have been designed from very early on. Also remember that the Machines were on the forefront of technology and economy (the reason why Humans attacked in the first place) Even if they didn't have alloys that could withstand large amounts of heat, they could easily repair the infrastructure. Radiation would have a negligible effect on a Machines systems but is cumulative so that effects would increase (degradation of circuitry etc...) but easily and quickly repaired.
Just why were they stupid enough to declare war on an technologically superior, physically and mentally superior being is the better question... Especially when said beings sought peace... Twice...
Anyway, I love the irony (if that's the right term) of that Squid in the United Nations end of Second rennaisence... Nuke 'em back, go on boy you know you want to! =D
Ok, going back to the idea that the machines had the technology to be unefected by the emp effect of an A bomb. Then someone asked why the squiggies were effected by the ships emp blasts. Perhaps it was another form of control by the machines. The machines relied on the cycle of the one to keep the matrix going. If the humans had no weapon against the machines, they probably wouldnt have lasted long enough to get the one out of the matrix and to the source. The machines couldnt just not send anything against the humans, it had to seem as though the machines just wanted them all dead. So the machines made the sentinals vaulnerable to emp blasts.
Could have simply gone underground...
Could also be a much more stronger, better EMP device now?
Zion also seemed to only have EMP's on their ships not the city, so it could be classified as a low level threat. Plus all EMP'd machines happened to be revived during the attack on Zion iirc, or the digger was anyway...
And I'm probably wrong on this but, isn't it possible to avoid EMP-fried brains by simply switching the machines off? or something similiar I forget...
EMP Shielding is SUPER EASY. Dr. Foxo even has a Handy Guide on how to EMP-proof your hovercraft.
MetaLogic wrote:
In the Animatrix, mankind nuked 01 several time to try to get rid of the machines. The narrator said that the machines weren't affected because they weren't as frail as the humans. I mean I can understand that, I can buy that. However, machines are electrical devices, and any nuclear blast will have an EMP explosion. How did the machines survive the EMP blast? I know one theory is that they have optical wiring which isn't affected by an EMP blast, but if that's true, then how come they didn't put them in the squiggy?Are you suggesting the Matrix Mainframe is run by Fiber Optic? If it was, there must have been some part of the matrix that was affected(The wires may have broke because of the Explosions), possible matrix damage could include the rapid deteroriation of Westview's Code. And the reason Sentinels aren't equipped with Fiber Optic is because it would mean Dragging around Many Miles of Fiber Optic cable in order to stay connected to Deus Ex Machina(The Source), Making them suceptible to Breakdown(Cable being damaged by scratching against Pipes),Unable to attack Zion(Cable wouldnt be long enough, they'd need a lot of cable which would probably pile up and block the pipes) and highly Vunerable(All the Hovercraft have to do is snap the cable), so Fiber Optic Sentinels would be Impractical, Useless, a waste of power and rescources in all. And besides, Sentinels are programmed to Hunt down Zion Hovercraft and destroy Them, if they were Fiber Optic, they would be too slow to hunt(Dragging along Hundreds of kilo's of Cable), and too vunerable to Destroy Hovercraft(Like i said, all the crew have to do is snap the cable), thats a lot of sacrifice just to proect Sentinels from Emp, and Zion would remove EMP's from Hovercrafts, and add other weapons(Like More Ballistic Turrets, or More Living Quarters and Uplink Chairs).
I think the OP was talking about the nuking of 01 before the Matrix was created, when mankind was still a global power with resources and capability to do it. Machines now wouldn't need the protection because Mankind does not have access to nuclear technology in the real and they wouldn't get close enough to the Matrix mainframe or the Machine city to set it off with any real destruction. Thats why EMP's are so affective against sentinels, but the hovercraft gets one shot with it and if they don't take out all the sentinels that are after them with it then they need to start praying.
Machines back during the war may have been cabled up inside with fibrop wiring and EMP shielding at least in the most important Machines and infrastructure anyway. The main issue would still be the physical destructive effects of the nukes.