[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

83 posts · 2007-05-24 01:08:49 to 2007-06-06 00:24:35

#36300246120 05/26/2007 12:39:38 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Procurator wrote:

(( 1. Creating an entire organisation. Inefficient (lots of resources used to keep it secret, recruit members and program a leader), but with the goal of keeping Redpill levels nominal (ergo keeping power levels efficient).

Wrong its more efficent for the Machines to create and organization to keep thre hired redpills in control


That's, uh, exactly what I meant. It is efficient - in the end!

How is the process inefficient? You take one program (gray in this case) to show you the rules and hand out assignments and humans do the rest. The steps taken to create an org are hardly inefficient.

2. Hiring Redpills. Inefficient (hovercrafts need to be built, humans need to be fed), but with the goal of keeping human relations optimal and the Matrix in good running order.

Wrong, hireing redpills has doubled if not tripled there efficienty in handling problems within the Matrix.

I know it is! That's exactly what I said! They hired Redpills for the sake of efficiency. But that efficiency was only apparent after the hiring. The hiring process itself was inefficient.

Again, one person to open a door, humans do the rest. Hardly inefficient.

3. Creating cheat codes. Dangerous, unecessary, but with the goal of... actually, I don't know what the point of the cheat codes was, so it couldn't've been that good.

Wrong the codes were very efficent for there intended purpose. It was there sides effects of the codes that created the problems but the codes themselves were very helpful.

The codes were meant to be helpful, but making them (as in - and stay with me here - the process of making them) was inefficient. However, this is a moot point as they never got to use the codes anyway.

The Machines didn't even make the codes. Kalt Chemical did.

4. This is the big one. Maintaining the Truce. The most inefficient thing the Machines have ever done, but something they've placed on a very high priority despite the vast array of problems it's caused over the past two or three years.

Again wrong, the truce keeping them alive as much as it is Zion. If one side dies all sides die as there is no One program in this version of the Matrix and the Smith virus that is still inside the Matrix.

What the-...? Where did you get that from? All they need to do is restart the Matrix. They have/had Neo, ergo they have the prime program. They've got lots of Redpill to repopulate Zion. Or, if they don't fancy that, they can scrap the whole deal and start again, like they did the first time.

I'll spell it out then. Zion destroyed redpill inhabitance gone. All problems for human machine operatives to handle are slowly decreasing and in a matter of time keeping freed humans alive becomes inefficient. Smith at some point will again surface and start taking over everything again. Thus, Matrix gone, Zion, gone man and machine gone. 

Every single step taken by the Machines is calculated, but not for immediate efficiency.

Ever step is calculated to make sure that it  is the most effient way of reaching there objective. If the Machines want the Cypherites trust back lying to them is not the way to get it.))

Their objective is efficient, yes. That's what I've been saying! But their means of obtaining those objectives need not be efficient in and of themselves. And who on Earth said they want the Cypherites' trust back? They've already considered terminating them (in a Machinist critical mission).

Trust, cooperate, whatever. They want them to follow there orders is the bottem line. Lying is not the way to do it. Your inability to produce a single step taken to any objective that has been inefficient continues to just prove my point that every step is calculated for its own efficiency to reach an objective.

I refuse to argue this any further, because I'm pointing out very obvious things. You know, facts of life (albeit set in a fictional universe). Efficiency is rarely obtained in a single step. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good. ))

All you have pointed out is that the end game has been efficient and your own ignorance into the mind of a Machine. You don't break a clog to make the machine work. You make sure every piece is in perfect condition and operating at 100%))



#36300246145 05/26/2007 13:51:37 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
GamiSB wrote:
SkyBruin-ML wrote:

That being said Gray's statement is vague enough to warrant further clarification.

Doesn't that go agisnt how an Agent is programed then? Every time I've ever talked to an Agent they have always been stright and to the point.


I'm just saying that Gray should clarify that he meant by " no such process". No for Cryptos, or any reinsertion process what so ever. Can you with 100 % certainty say what Gray meant? I can't.  
#36300246166 05/26/2007 14:49:20 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Vaico wrote:
(( The Sleepwalkers were Bluepills that never left their pods.))


Source? I remember in live events back then Cryptos and from my own conversations with liasion Matarax that the Sleepwalkers were a problem derived from within their organisation. They were trying to play the good guys by saying it was their own weakness that let them come to being it would be them to put things right.

Edit: Source - Sleepwalkers confirmed as fanatic Cyphs.
#36300246269 05/26/2007 18:14:17 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
The path has never been clearer

Cryptos
the dreamer
sufferer of pain
unveiler  of  truth
dreams   no   more

The redpill offers
broken dreams
terrible truth
no warning
no choice

no return

The path has never been clearer
a poignantly revealed truth
brings focus to our
purpose

One more horror of this reality
one 
more 
burning 
pain
to protect the Blues
from
those who dare
wake the dreamers to find
a hopelessly destroyed world
all they knew and loved
forever lost

no return

reinsertion denied

I cried

The Smith lied
tender, juicy steak
ignorance is bliss
but
no return

The Machines
protect the system
never said
were never asked
And then
one question
mindjob rebuffed
another hidden truth
exposed

no return

The path has never been clearer
salvation  vanished
one vital dream left
only  for the  Blues
their fragile dream
once disturbed...
once

no return

The path has never been clearer
truth has raised the stakes
the delicate Blue dream
a precious slumber
do not disturb
no return
ever
 
 
 
 
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#36300246289 05/26/2007 18:52:14 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

I really do feel sorry for Cryptos, and there are alot of parallels between him and Morpheus, both believed so hard, and fell just as hard when shown it wasn't exactly what they believed.

But, a reminder, Morpheus did get what he wanted in the end (Peace), it just did not come out the way he planned.

I know I said earlier that the Cypherites are up against the wall, well, Cryptos is trapped in his own box, and if he's paralleling Morpheus, we may need to keep a few more eyes than nature gave us on him

Side Note: I'm now in the process of promoting a Matrix Battle of the Bands: Dreami vs Soluma

#36300246290 05/26/2007 18:52:53 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

null

#36300246406 05/27/2007 02:26:11 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
GamiSB wrote:
Desc1ple wrote:
GamiSB wrote:

1. she is no where to be found in any of the screenshots till then end.
2. It takes awhile for Veil to even show herself after Gray had left
3. as I have already stated what good would pissing off the spies you just hired after they left you the first time for lying to them.

It's not logical, something that is the backbone of every Machine scheme.))



Veil is an MKT no?  They can be stealthed, can they not?
see number 2
Ah, so you know exactly how long transpired between Gray leaving and Veil revealing herself because you were there right? Oh wait no one was there.
Then of course there's the whole matter of whether or not she was supposed to be there in the first place, so perhaps waiting until Gray is surely gone is probably the best idea before revealing your presence. 
However, since you were obviously there and I was not you win this argument.
#36300246588 05/27/2007 09:04:09 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Desc1ple wrote:
GamiSB wrote:
Desc1ple wrote:
GamiSB wrote:

1. she is no where to be found in any of the screenshots till then end.
2. It takes awhile for Veil to even show herself after Gray had left
3. as I have already stated what good would pissing off the spies you just hired after they left you the first time for lying to them.

It's not logical, something that is the backbone of every Machine scheme.))



Veil is an MKT no?  They can be stealthed, can they not?

see number 2
Ah, so you know exactly how long transpired between Gray leaving and Veil revealing herself because you were there right? Oh wait no one was there.
Then of course there's the whole matter of whether or not she was supposed to be there in the first place, so perhaps waiting until Gray is surely gone is probably the best idea before revealing your presence. 
However, since you were obviously there and I was not you win this argument.
No Im just useing common sence. I don't know how long it was but by looking at the three images between Gray hyperjumping and Veil finaly appearing you can tell that some time has passed. Which sudgested that rather then being in sneak she jacked in there and came after the meeting had already happend. Also yeah Veil is an MKT but shes also been a SMG specialist and awakened before. Are you saying you were there and know what she was loaded as?

#36300247090 05/28/2007 05:26:14 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

Alright... Alright... Let us see where this goes.

This gives me a whole new reason to jack back in. Gray, you really are something else. Makes me almost miss being a Machinist.

Almost.

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#36300247235 05/28/2007 11:41:57 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
only time will tell

GF, nice 1 v 1, all me son!
#36300247241 05/28/2007 11:48:22 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

okay, I hate to be that little *CENSORED* who points out the truth...actually, sometimes it's fun, but now I hate to be that guy. Everyone who keeps saying "Gray has to be more specific, maybe it was only for Cryptos, bla bla bla bla bla" I have a strong feeling, that sorry kids, you're WRONG. The thing is, you're having a large problem of facing the truth, and getting over it. Trust me, I know how hard and PimP slap to the face the truth can be, but like that Maskette Haigen said, you have to move on.

Oh, and by the way, see the little sneaky the Machines pulled, trying to get cypher to believe he could be resinerted, that's exactly why you should join up with them, always have a back up plan or another set of cards hidden under the table.  Join Up SMILEY SMILEY 

Oh, & whoever said those who were reinserted were probably killed off, you're probably right, some kind of drug death I am assuming, most of the Operatives who thought they were being reinserted probably fought off the drug with their large amount of Innerstrength

-Dh

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#36300247346 05/28/2007 16:10:39 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Shadow Griever wrote:

Side Note: I'm now in the process of promoting a Matrix Battle of the Bands: Dreami vs Soluma

((Soluma hasn't sung in years... Good luck with that SMILEY ))
#36300247348 05/28/2007 16:13:29 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
GamiSB wrote:
Desc1ple wrote:
GamiSB wrote:
Desc1ple wrote:
GamiSB wrote:

1. she is no where to be found in any of the screenshots till then end.
2. It takes awhile for Veil to even show herself after Gray had left
3. as I have already stated what good would pissing off the spies you just hired after they left you the first time for lying to them.

It's not logical, something that is the backbone of every Machine scheme.))



Veil is an MKT no?  They can be stealthed, can they not?


see number 2
Ah, so you know exactly how long transpired between Gray leaving and Veil revealing herself because you were there right? Oh wait no one was there.
Then of course there's the whole matter of whether or not she was supposed to be there in the first place, so perhaps waiting until Gray is surely gone is probably the best idea before revealing your presence. 
However, since you were obviously there and I was not you win this argument.
No Im just useing common sence. I don't know how long it was but by looking at the three images between Gray hyperjumping and Veil finaly appearing you can tell that some time has passed. Which sudgested that rather then being in sneak she jacked in there and came after the meeting had already happend. Also yeah Veil is an MKT but shes also been a SMG specialist and awakened before. Are you saying you were there and know what she was loaded as?
Edit: whoops!

You know, Veil follows him everywhere.
#36300247355 05/28/2007 16:34:09 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

((I was just looking at the ammount of posts in the LE forum, and on the first page, it is only Cyph and ENP LEs that reach 100 posts SMILEY

Seems they are the most interesting))

Darkhawk's Gallery | Section 9's Past | Metal Gear?! It's already active?!
There can only be room for one Snake, and one Big Boss!
#36300247357 05/28/2007 16:37:41 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
SolidRevolver wrote:

((I was just looking at the ammount of posts in the LE forum, and on the first page, it is only Cyph and ENP LEs that reach 100 posts SMILEY

Seems they are the most interesting))


They are polarized and cause the most debate because of it. Those orgs as extremes naturally tend to cause the most commotion.
#36300247364 05/28/2007 16:56:44 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Pyraci wrote:
They are polarized and cause the most debate because of it.
(( What can I say? I'm persistent. SMILEY ))
#36300247482 05/28/2007 20:37:43 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Whoo... this is a doozy. Glad to see some deceit going on in the Matrix again. Things have been making far too much sense lately, I've almost forgotten to jack in.

Anyway... here goes....

Rogue wrote:
Here's a reality check. I was there, I served under Genmaskeered and Enmascarado. You, good sir, have no idea what you are talking about. The Cypherite organization, speaking of those of us who passed Enmasc and Genmask's test and were accepted in, was to 1. Protect the bluepills. 2. Do what we could to make it safe to be re-inserted. 3. Be re-inserted. It was never about "Killing off all redpills" or having total domination of the simulation.

You have no place to speak, you were not around during this time, you did not serve under them, you did not know our purpose.

I was around during this time, and though I'm proud to say I didn't serve under them, I did know their purpose, given the vast extent to which information is distributed within the System:

The two men stand nearby with clenched fists. A red scarf peeks from the pocket of one. The other has a green scarf in his pocket.
“He’s got to die. They all do. We go back now, and they’ll just haul us out again. Lie to us again.”
“This is making me physically ill. What is he trying to do?”
“Screw this. Call the cells. Our plan is going into effect. When can we be ready?”
“Give it a week, maybe two. Set up the safehouses. Finish stockpiling. Tactics boosters… and guns.”
“Two weeks. Get it in motion. We’re going to kill every single one of them. Every single one. Then we’ll go and get out reward.


Available here, in case you need to see it for yourself.

Pyraci wrote:
Fen wrote:
If Gray is not lying, then Rarebit or Chadwick have made a SERIOUS faux pas in the canon of the story.  The comics ARE considered canon, and since they came first, take precedence over contradictions in the Matrix Online story.))
*shrugs* Hey dude... the same thing happened in "Goliath", which if I'm not mistaken, was written by Chadwick himself.
You are mistaken, actually--Goliath was not written by Chadwick, The Miller's Tale was. Also, Goliath is the one comic that I have the biggest beef with, as I'm sure many people do. For one thing, it's one documented case of there being other cities simulated within the Matrix, which the filmmakers have stated in the past is not true--that the Matrix only simulates one Mega City surrounded by mountains. Yes, there is mention of Morpheus being sighted at Heathrow Airport in a news article on Neo's computer, but as we've been told through MxO, the newspapers are lies to keep the bluepills unaware of the truth.

steadyhand wrote:
btw from what iv read agent gray stated that no such thing existed   ,

however he did not say that it could not be done just that it does not exsists (sp) at the moment. so for all we know we thier could be a way to reinsert its just not been made yet thier for  meaning agent gray is not lieing he just not giveing the full answer

i suck at spelling so sorry for any errors
This does not solve the problem of people who have worked reinsertion into their personal RP stories up until now, which is what a lot of people have a major issue with.

The_Big_V wrote:

This is minor but I did do the 1st Mr. Po mission "shadowplay" again and it deals with a group of mercenary exiles who reinsert redpills for a fee.  If reinsertion is a myth then for continuity's sake you'd have to say that they are just killing the redpills as well.  Although perhaps Neoteny is right and those who submit to what they think is reinsertion are actually submitting to being overwritten.

One has to wonder how an Exile trapped within the Matrix itself has the ability to reinsert a person's body into the Power Plant in the Real world.

Fatmop wrote:
Vesuveus wrote:
Fatmop wrote:
((I would like to reiterate with a high degree of emphasis what a load of crap this is.  There's no explanation that will save my character.  None.))

     ((Well, this is a challenge to your RP. You weren't decieved, your character was. What would he do?))

((No, let me make this very clear, I was deceived.  For 6 of the last 8 months, my character was "reinserted."  He was a bluepill.  I wrote about this many, many times here and on other forums.  I now have to rewrite all of it and change Kellner's story, and it is ridiculous.))


It's not up to the storyline writers to succumb to every deviance from their prewritten storyline written by their players. I do agree that this is a severe slap in the face to creativity and the supposed ability given to us to make this our own story, but you do have to accept that there are limits to what's plausible within an RP-setting, and playing a reinserted redpill in a game like MxO is a little awkward.

Tytanya_MxO wrote:
The sad truth here is that the whole 'Cryptos getting his mind overwritten' pretty much invalidates everything we know about the matrix. To suggest that machines are capable of overwiting the mind of someone who 'chose' to exit the matrix in the first place, gives them the exact capability to create a full permanent Matrix, no need for reboots, no need for any anomoly....we might be able to accept this is a one off but to suggest it can happen routinely pretty much means we should all pack our bags and go home SMILEY
I'd say Bane sets pretty good precedent for the ability of a Machine program to overwrite all or part of a redpill's mind.

Zerotolerance wrote:
 The only continuity that this disturbs is the scene with the Runner waking up in the Animatrix and then finding himself back inside the simulation later. I never expected Smith to be telling the truth to Cypher when he promised him reinsertion. SMILEY)
I wouldn't say that was reinsertion--it was more of an interrupted self-substantiation.

And yeah, what did you think the agents meant by this?:

Agent Brown: If indeed the insider has failed, they'll sever the connection as soon as possible, unless...
Agent Jones: They're dead, in either case...
Agent Smith: We have no choice but to continue as planned. Deploy the sentinels immediately.


Doesn't exactly sound like they had any plans to leave anybody alive.



#36300247492 05/28/2007 21:09:57 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Stack wrote:

And yeah, what did you think the agents meant by this?:

Agent Brown: If indeed the insider has failed, they'll sever the connection as soon as possible, unless...
Agent Jones: They're dead, in either case...
Agent Smith: We have no choice but to continue as planned. Deploy the sentinels immediately.

Doesn't exactly sound like they had any plans to leave anybody alive.




Finally someone else gets it! Been saying that sence I first started debateing reinsurtion.

#36300247496 05/28/2007 21:24:27 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
GamiSB wrote:
Stack wrote:

And yeah, what did you think the agents meant by this?:

Agent Brown: If indeed the insider has failed, they'll sever the connection as soon as possible, unless...
Agent Jones: They're dead, in either case...
Agent Smith: We have no choice but to continue as planned. Deploy the sentinels immediately.

Doesn't exactly sound like they had any plans to leave anybody alive.





Finally someone else gets it! Been saying that sence I first started debateing reinsurtion.
Exactly. It didn't matter either way.

Oh yeah, and I stand corrected. "Goliath" was done by Neil Gaiman, and Note the cover: "based on concepts by the Larry and Andy Wachowski". I take this more as a "What-if" than as an actual part of Matrix canon, personally, but then again, I'm always wrong...right?
#36300247585 05/29/2007 04:48:07 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Pyraci wrote:
GamiSB wrote:
Stack wrote:

And yeah, what did you think the agents meant by this?:

Agent Brown: If indeed the insider has failed, they'll sever the connection as soon as possible, unless...
Agent Jones: They're dead, in either case...
Agent Smith: We have no choice but to continue as planned. Deploy the sentinels immediately.

Doesn't exactly sound like they had any plans to leave anybody alive.






Finally someone else gets it! Been saying that sence I first started debateing reinsurtion.
Exactly. It didn't matter either way.

Oh yeah, and I stand corrected. "Goliath" was done by Neil Gaiman, and Note the cover: "based on concepts by the Larry and Andy Wachowski". I take this more as a "What-if" than as an actual part of Matrix canon, personally, but then again, I'm always wrong...right?
No thats exactly how you should take it. If it's not written by the bros or Chadwick then it aint canon. There may be a few things not written by them that fit very nicely and don't contridict that could maybe be seen as canon but Paul and the bros are the only people that have full control over the universe.

#36300247659 05/29/2007 07:23:03 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Stack wrote:
Fatmop wrote:
Vesuveus wrote:
Fatmop wrote:
((I would like to reiterate with a high degree of emphasis what a load of crap this is.  There's no explanation that will save my character.  None.))


     ((Well, this is a challenge to your RP. You weren't decieved, your character was. What would he do?))

((No, let me make this very clear, I was deceived.  For 6 of the last 8 months, my character was "reinserted."  He was a bluepill.  I wrote about this many, many times here and on other forums.  I now have to rewrite all of it and change Kellner's story, and it is ridiculous.))




It's not up to the storyline writers to succumb to every deviance from their prewritten storyline written by their players. I do agree that this is a severe slap in the face to creativity and the supposed ability given to us to make this our own story, but you do have to accept that there are limits to what's plausible within an RP-setting, and playing a reinserted redpill in a game like MxO is a little awkward.

Of course Milton Friedman, Kellner, woke up again, just about 4 weeks before this news came out (the day after I got a laptop capable of playing MxO in Germany).  The only time I played a reinserted redpill was the day I came back to the game so that I could get back in the thick of things.  I understand that I could just keep going with that story and ignore this dictate handed down by the Wachowski brothers, but that would put me at odds with certain major MxO characters OOC and I'm not going to RP something that can't happen according to the universe I'm working with.

I certainly do agree that there are limits to what's possible in an RP setting.  However, you acknowledge that the machines can overwrite part or all of a human's memory or consciousness, right?  That, in itself, eliminates the single biggest hurdle to the feasability of reinsertion.  Finding suitable plugs for reattachment should not be terrible difficult, and a certain risque scene in Revolutions showed us that all the plugs along the spinal cord were still intact.  Regrowing and reteaching neurons is already medically possible, though difficult, in the real world today.  That just leaves finding a pod and taking care of the coding to put the person back inside, hardly insurmountable issues.  Might it cause insanity or quick reawakening?  Sure, maybe, but with what we'd been given up to that point, believing reinsertion was at least possible (if not time-consuming or wasteful) was not out of the question.

#36300247666 05/29/2007 07:37:38 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
(( Kell, in your case I suggest you just ignore this supposed revelation by Gray. Keep your character going on assuming that he was reinserted - at least until it's absolutely clear that it couldn't have happened.

If that is made clear in the end, you can then come up with something new. Maybe you weren't reinserted; maybe you were deceived and put into a separate reality for which there was an insertion process. Maybe you had your memory erased and were just jacked in like a Redpill with feeding tubes. Maybe it was a dream... Whatever. Let your imagination run wild! SMILEY I know it sucks if a dramatic change in the perceived game world messes up people's continuity, but we need to be flexible.

But for now, don't worry. ))
#36300247670 05/29/2007 07:43:54 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
((I guess that's what I'll have to do.  But let it be known that I am shaking my fist at the world IRL right now.))
#36300247674 05/29/2007 07:47:37 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
(( I don't blame you. ))
#36300247728 05/29/2007 09:51:22 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
((I can surely imagine that a reinsertion procedure would take up a large amount of recourses (prepping the body, memories, pod, etc.) and that way it's also quite possible that the Machines haven't developed a reinsertion procedure. If that was the case then everybody who tried to be reinserted was killed. Well, so far you guys have already said that. IMO it could be that in these numerous Matrix iterations there was once a case where reinsertion was a feasible "price" compared to what that person supplied (e.g. maybe he supplied the Zion codes or The One) and that's why the Machines held their word and reinserted him/her (which would also mean that they now have a basic reinsertion procedure developed on which they can build on).
/shrug I guess the theme of reinsertion will be handled carefully from now on.))
#36300247805 05/29/2007 11:33:22 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Fatmop wrote:
((I guess that's what I'll have to do.  But let it be known that I am shaking my fist at the world IRL right now.))
((



))
#36300248405 05/30/2007 01:43:04 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

((More like

))

#36300249282 05/31/2007 02:14:38 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
What if, say, Gray told Cryptos what he did knowing that Veil would be listening... just to see how the Cypherites would react?  Just to see how devoted they'd be to their ideals after learning that their ultimate goals may be unattainable?  Or heck, maybe no such procedure exists now, but they'll be able to dangle "Well, we might be able to do it, given time" over the heads of the Cypherites just to keep them in line.
#36300251226 06/02/2007 03:36:37 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
You know. I started to re-read all of this. And a song popped into my head. Enjoy

Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a *CENSORED*,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a *CENSORED*,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Huh!

Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a *CENSORED*,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.

And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a *CENSORED*,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.


#36300251334 06/02/2007 07:11:17 [7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
Gray used us as his pawns, our organization was nothing but another Machine tool! We know the truth now, and we are prepared to face it. But rest assured when I say that this betrayal will not go unpunished!
#36300253662 06/05/2007 18:04:07 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

Well, you *were* doing Machine missions all through it...

Illyria

#36300253684 06/05/2007 18:45:57 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07
NightTrace wrote:
You know. I started to re-read all of this. And a song popped into my head. Enjoy

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a *CENSORED*,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.


Wow that's an OLD song.  My mom liked that song when she was really young.  That is a definite cultural relic from the '60's.  I don't think we have any comperable anti-war songs in popular culture today.

Why did this particular song pop into your head?  SMILEY

#36300253914 06/06/2007 00:24:35 Re:[7.2.5] I want to go back. I have to. - Vector - 5/22/07

Because of these lines:

What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a *CENSORED*,