Yeah, i went there ><
If they brought it back, what should they do to change it first?
If they brought it back, what should they do to change it first?
Zen Master
82 posts · 2007-03-19 17:12:20 to 2007-11-23 16:38:52
Reduce the uber DPS? :p I think spinning flower has like 320+ DPS.
that'd be pretty cool, but they sure need to hire more devs though
XRontix wrote:
I wouldn't count on that..
that'd be pretty cool, but they sure need to hire more devs though
I wouldn't count on that..
they would also need to repurpose it seeing as cr2 did to hackers what zen master was supposed to do for cr1 martial artists, balance things out (although the acc balance on hackers was a little over done...with a steel mallet...repeatedley)
Change balance to give thrown defence, which makes a lot more sense than viral anyway...
There was a 4th MA tree? 
Kinda like sniper in the current guntree.
The Leo wrote:
Ah, I see.
Kinda like sniper in the current guntree.
Ah, I see.
Zen Master FTW!!!
At the time you could load it, Technique could only level to 30. It was changed to 50 because of cr2 but there was no way to load it to level it to 50.
At the time you could load it, Technique could only level to 30. It was changed to 50 because of cr2 but there was no way to load it to level it to 50.
I still can't imagine how Zen Master was 'accidentally' implemented, even for its admittedly short life-span.
Sidenote: That damage is outrageous 0.0.
noctivagus wrote:
Min. Character Level of 99 does that, hehI still can't imagine how Zen Master was 'accidentally' implemented, even for its admittedly short life-span.
Sidenote: That damage is outrageous 0.0.
The DPS system was a bit different then. BUT ZOMG pics!!!!!!
They shud put it in with the viral bonuses and remove the nerf from hackers. Then all are happy !!!!!
They shud put it in with the viral bonuses and remove the nerf from hackers. Then all are happy !!!!!
in the current combat system akido can take pretty effectivley againts hackers simply from their natural defensive buffs + grab tactic.
i wasted an entire is bar of attacks which all landed but barley scratched the guy, id say a total of 10% damage overall, maybe 15%.
change the viral to thrown defence and its all good.
i wasted an entire is bar of attacks which all landed but barley scratched the guy, id say a total of 10% damage overall, maybe 15%.
change the viral to thrown defence and its all good.
change nothing and leave them as vet rewards 
GF, nice 1 v 1, all me son!
phaydren wrote:
Because I joined after CR2
Edit: That damage... *looks for a sploit to load ZM*
in the current combat system akido can take pretty effectivley againts hackers simply from their natural defensive buffs + grab tactic.Yeah... I've only ever lost a duel to one hacker and he was probably buffed to high hell
i wasted an entire is bar of attacks which all landed but barley scratched the guy, id say a total of 10% damage overall, maybe 15%.
change the viral to thrown defence and its all good.
Because I joined after CR2
Edit: That damage... *looks for a sploit to load ZM*
That would work. Or not necessarily veteran rewards, just very hard to acquire skills.
Make them non-codable, non tradable, non buyable. And only way to get them is via a very lenghtly quest (prior to Seraph's nut job I would have suggested something along the lines of doing "Focus" missions for Seraph, training in the Matrtial Arts)
Say, the equivalent of acquiring an Area K, and completing all PBs just for one skill...with an assortment of missions, collections, (Quests, missions which last even when you jack out and have several stages to be completed) and tasks for lvl50s.
Make them non-codable, non tradable, non buyable. And only way to get them is via a very lenghtly quest (prior to Seraph's nut job I would have suggested something along the lines of doing "Focus" missions for Seraph, training in the Matrtial Arts)
Say, the equivalent of acquiring an Area K, and completing all PBs just for one skill...with an assortment of missions, collections, (Quests, missions which last even when you jack out and have several stages to be completed) and tasks for lvl50s.
I still say balance em and implement them and remove the hacker penalty in IL and every1 r happy 
The Leo wrote:
Not everyone would be happy, because MA would be getting more moves... hacker and gun man and assassin and coder and.... you get the point?
I still say balance em and implement them and remove the hacker penalty in IL and every1 r happy
Not everyone would be happy, because MA would be getting more moves... hacker and gun man and assassin and coder and.... you get the point?
TimeMaker wrote:
The Leo wrote:Coder is a sim tree they already have few moves. Hacker is the biggest and most flexible tree ingame and already have more abs. Spy have their special attacks both in and out of IL + the abs tht drag you in IL and gunmen have the snipersubtree which was how zen-master suppsoed to work for MA so right now gunmen can have more accuracy (bonuses form the sniper) and damage while MA is plain old MA with the 65 IS cost of wrist throw, 60 IS cost of ki summon, 1 useless aikido ab, 1 almost useless aikido ab, and abilities with A chance of stun (no % or whatever). I canot draw the picture any clearer than this so I still hold on the remove the hacker penalty and add zen-master which anyway wont happen because the devs apperantely prefer to fix old bugs and we don't have a QA server because...god knows why that is...
I still say balance em and implement them and remove the hacker penalty in IL and every1 r happy
Not everyone would be happy, because MA would be getting more moves... hacker and gun man and assassin and coder and.... you get the point?
For the two-hundred eleventy-eighth time, Zen Master is not coming back. They couldn't rebalance it, because it was designed specifically to counter other imbalances in the combat system.
Bringing Zen Master back into the game with CR2.0 rules will unbalance the system again.
Not to mention, if I remember correctly, the only people who wanted it back after it left were the players who learned to exploit using it.
If any new work needs to be done, it should be done on our existing trees: Animations, Accuracy vs Defense, Damage vs Resistance, new abilities, etc.
There is no animator so no new animations will happen and so no new abilities while if they introduce a balanced zen master they can introduce the already made trojan coder and citadel coder. I never used zen master or saw it and you can't say it was exploitable because it came really by misstake for one day but was also introduced in the QA which is for testing such things. The system is balanced now yes but with the changes you can't say if zen master will unbalance it or make it better without a QA server so don't make false assumptions. And if you think the system is balanced why do you want the devs to work on the existing trees' accuracy vs defence and damage vs resistance??
exsuscito wrote:
Cause they did it on purpose.
I still can't imagine how Zen Master was 'accidentally' implemented, even for its admittedly short life-span.
Sidenote: That damage is outrageous 0.0.
Cause they did it on purpose.
Oh for Neo's sake this had to be said again? It wasn't just for imbalances, otherwise Citadel Coder and Trojan Horse wouldn't have been on the QA server. The trees were meant for an update, while yes, giving bonus certain trees couldn't give at the time.
Anyone got a link to a video of the animations for those moves? I really want to see the old animations like the Scorpion Kick (probably wasnt called that, Trinity does it in the films).
The moves were very sexy. Even though you had to manually load it. I remember accidentally finding it before the server merge. When we switched to SOE I apparently filled out the billing info wrong and lost my account. From what I heard people who had either sold it, quit, or gave it to someone who quit. I don't remember the level limit though, probably a little while after I lost my account. I was using it at level 43.
Man I wish I would been able to use this tree looks nice but thats probably because I didnt play before cr2....deviljonny wrote:
...just let us equip 'em. ;)
XD
change nothing and leave them as vet rewards :PAgreed. :P
...just let us equip 'em. ;)
XD
Cmdr_Dezreki wrote:
After some minor balances to damage and viral defense*
deviljonny wrote:Agreed too.* I just wanna see Spinning flower again..change nothing and leave them as vet rewardsAgreed.
...just let us equip 'em.
XD
After some minor balances to damage and viral defense*
Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:
He speaks the truth. I'd rather see all of the above tampered with before we even think about integrating the lost trees.For the two-hundred eleventy-eighth time, Zen Master is not coming back. They couldn't rebalance it, because it was designed specifically to counter other imbalances in the combat system.
Bringing Zen Master back into the game with CR2.0 rules will unbalance the system again.
Not to mention, if I remember correctly, the only people who wanted it back after it left were the players who learned to exploit using it.
If any new work needs to be done, it should be done on our existing trees: Animations, Accuracy vs Defense, Damage vs Resistance, new abilities, etc.
They mentioned at the Fanfaire why it couldnt come back..but for the life of me I cant remember. Il have a think.
its because it was designed to balance a weakness against hacker that originally required ma and to an extent gunmen to load up abilitys from the hacker tree, there by crippling the build. since cr2 aliviates these issues zen master aside from its asthetic values is not nessicary.
Couldn't they just tone down the current passives and give Zen master MA only buffs? that would remove the Hacker equation wouldn't it? assuming there isn't some hidden effects which there might be
At this point implementing these trees would only be justified by the fact that everyone wants to have the coveted "Zen Master" title on their hotbar. It just doesn't have any practical application at this point.
Anyone got any footage of some moves doubt it but worth asking?
Relox wrote:
Anyone got any footage of some moves doubt it but worth asking?If someone were to submit footage of the moves, it would be proof of exploiting. >_>
XXT wrote:
Zen Master FTW!!!I really miss this *sigh*
At the time you could load it, Technique could only level to 30. It was changed to 50 because of cr2 but there was no way to load it to level it to 50.
yuenwoping wrote:
XXT wrote:Zen Master FTW!!!I really miss this *sigh*
At the time you could load it, Technique could only level to 30. It was changed to 50 because of cr2 but there was no way to load it to level it to 50.
Its not nice to give someone something, then take it away and say 'Nope, you cant have it anymore'. Thats the easiest way to make kids cry 
Saying that, Zen Master had come and gone before I joined MxO.
I dont see why it cant be re-introduced with a few changes, remove the insane damage, remove the extrodinary Viral Defence. Just build it as an average 16-30 tree. Loading this means MAs would have to sacrafice higher level abils in other tree's.
We had those Org Abils snatched away at the last moment, this looks like our best chance for new abils in MxO 
Sweep the floor is the only move I want to see, considering that disarm debuff.
I think this needs to be put back in. Every other MA ability is the same and boring. How about put it back in the game for another 3 days.. and don't change any of it.
I say Keep the moves, and turn the DPS down.
The DPS is that high cause they're currently level 99 to load...
I would go back to MA just to have zen master. Come on lol. We have NO Free fire abs that are really effective. Especially when rooted. MA are the ultimate tanks. Why not give it to them?
Therinwhitten wrote:
I would go back to MA just to have zen master. Come on lol. We have NO Free fire abs that are really effective. Especially when rooted. MA are the ultimate tanks. Why not give it to them?Because MA isn't supposed to, it's a win button for interlock so It shouldn't have any out of interlock abilties
pack-hunter wrote:
LOL but that is not normally the case anymore, as we see on vector on a daily basis. The duelist with smg or sniper is good in and out of Interlock, therefore we go through that again. His only weakness really is mkt as most gun clothing has viral resist and def.
Therinwhitten wrote:I would go back to MA just to have zen master. Come on lol. We have NO Free fire abs that are really effective. Especially when rooted. MA are the ultimate tanks. Why not give it to them?Because MA isn't supposed to, it's a win button for interlock so It shouldn't have any out of interlock abilties
LOL but that is not normally the case anymore, as we see on vector on a daily basis. The duelist with smg or sniper is good in and out of Interlock, therefore we go through that again. His only weakness really is mkt as most gun clothing has viral resist and def.
Therinwhitten wrote:
pack-hunter wrote:Duelist is an IL build, the other 2 1/2 tree's are majorly out of IL and therefore are easy prey, unless they have duelist loaded. MA is purely in Interlock, it would be mainly devastating to other builds if MA's had out of interlock abilities.Therinwhitten wrote:I would go back to MA just to have zen master. Come on lol. We have NO Free fire abs that are really effective. Especially when rooted. MA are the ultimate tanks. Why not give it to them?Because MA isn't supposed to, it's a win button for interlock so It shouldn't have any out of interlock abilties
LOL but that is not normally the case anymore, as we see on vector on a daily basis. The duelist with smg or sniper is good in and out of Interlock, therefore we go through that again. His only weakness really is mkt as most gun clothing has viral resist and def.
Can't they have once in a month like a QA day on any of the servers or all of them (maybe even at different times) where they introduse untested stuff like zen master and try rebalance them??
The Leo wrote:
That would require a patch to have all the Zen Stuff be useable and loadable, and another patch to remove it all, all in the space of one day. And the patch (even if nothing much has changed) would have to be tested slightly each time by the devs to make sure nothing major is going to go bang ingame.
Can't they have once in a month like a QA day on any of the servers or all of them (maybe even at different times) where they introduse untested stuff like zen master and try rebalance them??
That would require a patch to have all the Zen Stuff be useable and loadable, and another patch to remove it all, all in the space of one day. And the patch (even if nothing much has changed) would have to be tested slightly each time by the devs to make sure nothing major is going to go bang ingame.
Honestly, guys. This topic was talked over and over a billion times.
Rarebit said in the first or the second "Ask-A-Dev-A-MxO-Question" threads that most of the content included in Zen Master already MADE its way into the game in cr2. There is no chance that we will see Zen Master ingame like it was.
Vitruv wrote:
BUT I STILL HAVE THE ABILITYS!
Honestly, guys. This topic was talked over and over a billion times.
Rarebit said in the first or the second "Ask-A-Dev-A-MxO-Question" threads that most of the content included in Zen Master already MADE its way into the game in cr2. There is no chance that we will see Zen Master ingame like it was.
BUT I STILL HAVE THE ABILITYS!