The E Pluribus Neo Manifesto

Reeverb wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Reeverb wrote:

Prove the bluepill his reality is fake and his mind will break.
Tell the bluepill only a small part of the truth and chances are he'll regret it when he awakens.

Let the bluepill find his own way out and only guide those who seek the truth behind their reality. These bluepills are the ones who can accept the truth. This is the 1% that fails to stay connected to the system. You need to leave the other 99% alone for you will do more harm to them than good. Even offering a choice could break their mind. Your solution of giving the choice will not result in peace but in confusion. Confusion leads to frustration and in the end we're further away from peace than we are now.

You have to realise not everyone is ready to be given a choice and that they cannot be made ready regardless of how you present them the choice.

Thats why they have the choice to decide if they want it to be proven to them or not.

For the 4th time: Not everyone is ready to be given the choice.

For the 4th time we dont want them to only choose between real or Matrix We want them to be able to choose if they want to choose between real or the matrix. We want them to have a choice in everything, freedom over there lives.

Yes, I got that part...and I told you it doesn't make a difference of how you present your choice. It might still awaken the unready. - What difference does it make by asking the same question, formulated in another way? "Do you want to know what the Matrix is?" or "Do you want to choose to choose to choose to choose to choose so you have a choice, that can lead to the decision which eventually will awaken you or keep you asleep?"

Your speaking on behalf of everyone again athough you just claimed you don't, I say let everyone decide for themself if they want the choice or not.

You're now going against yourself.
First you tell us you want everyone to be given the choice. And with that last line you say that everyone can decide for themselves if they want the choice or not.

This is why EPN is failing: Y'all don't make sense and have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about! You're avoiding, missing or/and ignoring my point. I pointed out the flawes in your ignorant logic but you still just repeat them.

I give up.

EPN wants everyone to be given a choice, yes glad you can see that far. But not just in one thing small area, but in everything! I've said this from the start but you continually just overlook it and skip over to giving them the choice between red and blue saying that our plan is flawed because we are pushing this one area on everyone. Wrong we want everyone to know is there is a choice before the pills a choice before hearing about the truth. The choice to decide if you want to go down that path and hear the rest of the story. But 99% of the population is denied that first choice. Denied a chance to make sure that what they subliminally want is really what they want. And anytime someone reaches out to inform them that there is this choice. That its there if they want to make it. But right now that isn't allowed to happen. People can't choose if they want to hear about the truth or not.

That's what we want. The freedom so that every human plugged into the Matrix, apart of the 1% or 99% has the right to decided for themselves, consciously waht they want to make of there life.

So stop skipping over parts and start reading with an open mind and maybe you will understand that we aren't these lunatic redpills that want to shove a choice on everyone but just people that want to inform the world that if they want to have a choice they have it and its waiting for whenever they feel they are ready to choose.

GamiSB wrote:

99% isn't allowed to be aware, have it offerd, or even persue the choice thus they are bound to stay in the Matrix.

Actually that is wrong. All 100% have the choice, but only 1% are aware of it. The other 99% are not not (which means yes) allowed to be aware of it, have it offered or being able to persue the choice. The problem is: They are simply unaware of it and don't "need" to become aware of it as they have chosen (according to the choice EVERYONE has been given) that this is the world they want to live in. But that doesn't mean that they can't change that choice of theirs at any given time.  But forcing them to chance their choice by the means you stated Gami, well...

Wrong? Oh so then that little mission set in the Machine criticle archives where they were tracking down a Zion ship that sent out a few emails to the masses to locate potential bluepills never happend right? I believe there reasoning for trying to locate it bwas because it was sent to everyone and not people in the 1% that accoridng to them are allowed to be freed which was a violation of the truce. Right now no one outside the 1% is allowed to know about the truth, to be offerd a chance to find out about the truth, or even allowed to know it exicest outside the subconcious.

As I stated earlier, giving everyone, depsite of their own subconscious choice, the choice to take the blue pill or take the red pill, the experience will ultimately alter their subconscious leading to a dramatic increase of those who want free and thus unbalancing the system of the Matrix as seen by the Oracle (she forewsaw a balance at 1%). This will inexorably lead to a cataclysmic system crash ((the same way it should have gone when Neo chose to save Trinity instead of reinserting to the prime program and resetting the Zion/Matrix cycle. But Neo found a way... you know that part. I say this OOC cause my character doesn't know this.)) and therfore to the nullifying of the truth and the upcoming extinction of the human race. If the Mashines could survive without humanity is 
another question but they wouldn't allow us to get that far , even if that means to break the truce.

And as I said earler no it wont. The bluepill, why are you people forgetting about that pill. What it does, what its there for, why Cypherites use it on people and themselves. The bluepill puts a person into a deep sleep that when they wake up from they think everything taht happend to them that day was just a dream. The only people this wont work on is those that are apart of the 1%. The rest of them aftering takieng are in dream land and when they wake up they forget about it. I't wont increase it, its there so those that they who take it go back to there peacefuly lives they don't want to give up and so they stay happy.

Reeverb wrote:

Thats why they have the choice to decide if they want it to be proven to them or not.

For the 4th time: Not everyone is ready to be given the choice.

For the 4th time we dont want them to only choose between real or Matrix We want them to be able to choose if they want to choose between real or the matrix. We want them to have a choice in everything, freedom over there lives.

Yes, I got that part...and I told you it doesn't make a difference of how you present your choice. It might still awaken the unready. - What difference does it make by asking the same question, formulated in another way? "Do you want to know what the Matrix is?" or "Do you want to choose to choose to choose to choose to choose so you have a choice, that can lead to the decision which eventually will awaken you or keep you asleep?"

How does it not make a difrence then? Aparently Im missing some ablosute truth that says that no matter how you present something the result will always be the same. I'm sorry but your wrong presentation is everything. The way we desribe allows the person to decide when they are ready to hear more about the truth, allows them to decide when if they are ready to give up everything for the truth and allows them to deicde when they are ready to hear the truth. They are always the one that chooses, always the one that decides when they are ready. We offer they have as long as they need to decide when to choose. If they are not ready then they back out at any time, nothing they choose is set in stone EVEN after they take the red pill because even then they can go back.

Stop skipping over parts yourself, Gami.
No wait.

Stop reading and start thinking for once. Though I doubt you'd understand that your way of handling minds could be a crucial factor of breaking it. The problem isn't choice anymore Gami. The problem is the system and how it treats the minds of humans. Start working on a solution so that more than 1% can handle the choice and I might not try to stop you.

Right back at you. But I doubt that you will even bother to listen and continue to speak on behalf of everyone saying they arn't ready without even offering them the chance to decide if they are or not. Everything begins with choice and choice is always the problem. The system of awakening minds functions on choice and is only broken when someone denies a person a choice. If they follow the awkening procedure how they should then the bluepill is the one that makes all the decisons and decides when they are ready. When they dont then you have problems, they were forced to do something, they didn't have enough time to think it threw, they acted on impule because they were scared. The system treats the minds with the utermost care and allows them to be in charge of there life. The problem is when humans get selfish which is why we proposed that Man and Machine look over and take care of the procedure so that its always done right.

SEPET wrote:

I like when a machine say "u cannot take decision for every one" when the machine take it before.... Do u really think if the unconcious choice is not a need of the system, any man have ever the choice? yes? the next question i supposed to be, is this air that i'm breathing now?? Please wake up guys befor to talk of who can take decision for all.....

First of all, I am not a Machinist.
Thus secondly, I don't take decisions for the innocent nor do I have plans for the innocent.
Get your facts straight before you accuse people. It are the Machines who took away choice, not the Machinists and definitely not the Cypherites.

RetroX wrote:

You fail to address the concerns of those who want out, who would be happy with the truth. You are thinking about this as if you were having the choice. There is a need for people to be given a choice between a dream enslaving them in Bondage and The Real. If they don't want the choice they can always take the blue pill.

I fail to adress what? Are you kidding me?
It's EPN's manifesto, not mine. I shouldn't have to come with a solution for your problem. Because for me, there is no problem.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

99% isn't allowed to be aware, have it offerd, or even persue the choice thus they are bound to stay in the Matrix.

Actually that is wrong. All 100% have the choice, but only 1% are aware of it. The other 99% are not not (which means yes) allowed to be aware of it, have it offered or being able to persue the choice. The problem is: They are simply unaware of it and don't "need" to become aware of it as they have chosen (according to the choice EVERYONE has been given) that this is the world they want to live in. But that doesn't mean that they can't change that choice of theirs at any given time.  But forcing them to chance their choice by the means you stated Gami, well...

Wrong? Oh so then that little mission set in the Machine criticle archives where they were tracking down a Zion ship that sent out a few emails to the masses to locate potential bluepills never happend right? I believe there reasoning for trying to locate it bwas because it was sent to everyone and not people in the 1% that accoridng to them are allowed to be freed which was a violation of the truce. Right now no one outside the 1% is allowed to know about the truth, to be offerd a chance to find out about the truth, or even allowed to know it exicest outside the subconcious.


Pfft, that's inside information then (that archieve). I think that anyone in the system can adress themselves to those topics, with boundaries (of course, but unfortunately) given. But actually it is inevitable nowadays since the redpill and Exile population grows and their (passive and active) influence gets stronger but not yet stronger than Mashine control. It is a matter of time until the Mashines either drastically seperate us from the public or let them roam around more freely. What do you think is more possible?

As I stated earlier, giving everyone, depsite of their own subconscious choice, the choice to take the blue pill or take the red pill, the experience will ultimately alter their subconscious leading to a dramatic increase of those who want free and thus unbalancing the system of the Matrix as seen by the Oracle (she forewsaw a balance at 1%). This will inexorably lead to a cataclysmic system crash ((the same way it should have gone when Neo chose to save Trinity instead of reinserting to the prime program and resetting the Zion/Matrix cycle. But Neo found a way... you know that part. I say this OOC cause my character doesn't know this.)) and therfore to the nullifying of the truth and the upcoming extinction of the human race. If the Mashines could survive without humanity is 
another question but they wouldn't allow us to get that far , even if that means to break the truce.

And as I said earler no it wont. The bluepill, why are you people forgetting about that pill. What it does, what its there for, why Cypherites use it on people and themselves. The bluepill puts a person into a deep sleep that when they wake up from they think everything taht happend to them that day was just a dream. The only people this wont work on is those that are apart of the 1%. The rest of them aftering takieng are in dream land and when they wake up they forget about it. I't wont increase it, its there so those that they who take it go back to there peacefuly lives they don't want to give up and so they stay happy.

The bluepill cannot alter the subconscious as you belief. It erases your memory but if I may draw an anology to Computers: You can erase any data you like but some parts will always be reconstructable. Of course there are more enhanced eraser programs that work so efficient that nearly no data can be reconstructed but that's still not enough and such programs are rarely used. According to this analogy and the fact that the humans of Zion produced and worked on the design of both pills, one can say that the erasing program of the blue pill is not at an level of efficiency (although Mashine Blue Pills of nowadays might be, although I have no knowledge that they produce some that are different to those of Zion) where the memory can be erased so that in  most cases no data (the splinter) remains. Maybe you are lucky and remove the splinter from their mind, but maybe you're not and the splinter remains. Your argument only is able to slow down the process I said to the degree of efficiency of the blue pill.

the other saviour that we are all familiar with, Neo gave his life for both the good and the evil so they may carry on with a certain level of peace, basically delaying the inevitable destruction of both worlds.

But again this was only a delay, in hopes that many more could be saved from the system, before his second comming..were he will spread justice amongst those left...

The true question here is..Wich side are you on? As only one will inherit the earth.

I read something like this in a Chick tract once...

Illyria

GamiSB wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

99% isn't allowed to be aware, have it offerd, or even persue the choice thus they are bound to stay in the Matrix.

Actually that is wrong. All 100% have the choice, but only 1% are aware of it. The other 99% are not not (which means yes) allowed to be aware of it, have it offered or being able to persue the choice. The problem is: They are simply unaware of it and don't "need" to become aware of it as they have chosen (according to the choice EVERYONE has been given) that this is the world they want to live in. But that doesn't mean that they can't change that choice of theirs at any given time.  But forcing them to chance their choice by the means you stated Gami, well...

Wrong? Oh so then that little mission set in the Machine criticle archives where they were tracking down a Zion ship that sent out a few emails to the masses to locate potential bluepills never happend right? I believe there reasoning for trying to locate it bwas because it was sent to everyone and not people in the 1% that accoridng to them are allowed to be freed which was a violation of the truce. Right now no one outside the 1% is allowed to know about the truth, to be offerd a chance to find out about the truth, or even allowed to know it exicest outside the subconcious.


Pfft, that's inside information then (that archieve). I think that anyone in the system can adress themselves to those topics, with boundaries (of course, but unfortunately) given. But actually it is inevitable nowadays since the redpill and Exile population grows and their (passive and active) influence gets stronger but not yet stronger than Mashine control. It is a matter of time until the Mashines either drastically seperate us from the public or let them roam around more freely. What do you think is more possible?

It doesnt matter, the fact is that people are not being allowed to hear something or even haveing the chance to decide if they want to hear it. Freedom of speech aparently does not apply when dealing with the truth and that is what needs to be changed. Stop the censorship, stop babying everyone and allow huamnity to think for it's self again.

As I stated earlier, giving everyone, depsite of their own subconscious choice, the choice to take the blue pill or take the red pill, the experience will ultimately alter their subconscious leading to a dramatic increase of those who want free and thus unbalancing the system of the Matrix as seen by the Oracle (she forewsaw a balance at 1%). This will inexorably lead to a cataclysmic system crash ((the same way it should have gone when Neo chose to save Trinity instead of reinserting to the prime program and resetting the Zion/Matrix cycle. But Neo found a way... you know that part. I say this OOC cause my character doesn't know this.)) and therfore to the nullifying of the truth and the upcoming extinction of the human race. If the Mashines 
could survive without humanity is another question but they wouldn't allow us to get that far, even if that means
to break the truce.

And as I said earler no it wont. The bluepill, why are you people forgetting about that pill. What it does, what its there for, why Cypherites use it on people and themselves. The bluepill puts a person into a deep sleep that when they wake up from they think everything taht happend to them that day was just a dream. The only people this wont work on is those that are apart of the 1%. The rest of them aftering takieng are in dream land and when they wake up they forget about it. I't wont increase it, its there so those that they who take it go back to there peacefuly lives they don't want to give up and so they stay happy.

The bluepill cannot alter the subconscious as you belief. It erases your memory but if I may draw an anology to Computers: You can erase any data you like but some parts will always be reconstructable. Of course there are more enhanced eraser programs that work so efficient that nearly no data can be reconstructed but that's still not enough and such programs are rarely used. According to this analogy and the fact that the humans of Zion produced and worked on the design of both pills, one can say that the erasing program of the blue pill is not at an level of efficiency (although Mashine Blue Pills of nowadays might be, although I have no knowledge that they produce some that are different to those of Zion) where the memory can be erased so that in  most cases no data (the splinter) remains. Maybe you are lucky and remove the splinter from their mind, but maybe you're not and the splinter remains. Your argument only is able to slow down the process I said to the degree of efficiency of the blue pill.

So what your saying then is that any person that has taken the bluepill after going threw the procedures we have now is going to wake up? Thats what your saying right? that the offering of the choice affects the subconcious and that cant be undone?

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree. if this was true humans would be wakeing up left and right without takeing pills becasue there subconcious was alterd and this entire procedue would a danger period because if you so much as talk to a person they wake up. You said it yourself the subconcoius is not something that is easly manipulated so how is something like this going to affect it? It's not and if it does the bluepill takes care of it.

"You didn't come here to make the choice you've alreayd made it. Your here to understand why you made it" Thats what the pills do, they offer an explination of why your about to choose red or blue.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

99% isn't allowed to be aware, have it offerd, or even persue the choice thus they are bound to stay in the Matrix.

Actually that is wrong. All 100% have the choice, but only 1% are aware of it. The other 99% are not not (which means yes) allowed to be aware of it, have it offered or being able to persue the choice. The problem is: They are simply unaware of it and don't "need" to become aware of it as they have chosen (according to the choice EVERYONE has been given) that this is the world they want to live in. But that doesn't mean that they can't change that choice of theirs at any given time.  But forcing them to chance their choice by the means you stated Gami, well...

Wrong? Oh so then that little mission set in the Machine criticle archives where they were tracking down a Zion ship that sent out a few emails to the masses to locate potential bluepills never happend right? I believe there reasoning for trying to locate it bwas because it was sent to everyone and not people in the 1% that accoridng to them are allowed to be freed which was a violation of the truce. Right now no one outside the 1% is allowed to know about the truth, to be offerd a chance to find out about the truth, or even allowed to know it exicest outside the subconcious.


Pfft, that's inside information then (that archieve). I think that anyone in the system can adress themselves to those topics, with boundaries (of course, but unfortunately) given. But actually it is inevitable nowadays since the redpill and Exile population grows and their (passive and active) influence gets stronger but not yet stronger than Mashine control. It is a matter of time until the Mashines either drastically seperate us from the public or let them roam around more freely. What do you think is more possible?

It doesnt matter, the fact is that people are not being allowed to hear something or even haveing the chance to decide if they want to hear it. Freedom of speech aparently does not apply when dealing with the truth and that is what needs to be changed. Stop the censorship, stop babying everyone and allow huamnity to think for it's self again.

As I stated earlier, giving everyone, depsite of their own subconscious choice, the choice to take the blue pill or take the red pill, the experience will ultimately alter their subconscious leading to a dramatic increase of those who want free and thus unbalancing the system of the Matrix as seen by the Oracle (she forewsaw a balance at 1%). This will inexorably lead to a cataclysmic system crash ((the same way it should have gone when Neo chose to save Trinity instead of reinserting to the prime program and resetting the Zion/Matrix cycle. But Neo found a way... you know that part. I say this OOC cause my character doesn't know this.)) and therfore to the nullifying of the truth and the upcoming extinction of the human race. If the Mashines 
could survive without humanity is another question but they wouldn't allow us to get that far, even if that means
to break the truce.

And as I said earler no it wont. The bluepill, why are you people forgetting about that pill. What it does, what its there for, why Cypherites use it on people and themselves. The bluepill puts a person into a deep sleep that when they wake up from they think everything taht happend to them that day was just a dream. The only people this wont work on is those that are apart of the 1%. The rest of them aftering takieng are in dream land and when they wake up they forget about it. I't wont increase it, its there so those that they who take it go back to there peacefuly lives they don't want to give up and so they stay happy.

The bluepill cannot alter the subconscious as you belief. It erases your memory but if I may draw an anology to Computers: You can erase any data you like but some parts will always be reconstructable. Of course there are more enhanced eraser programs that work so efficient that nearly no data can be reconstructed but that's still not enough and such programs are rarely used. According to this analogy and the fact that the humans of Zion produced and worked on the design of both pills, one can say that the erasing program of the blue pill is not at an level of efficiency (although Mashine Blue Pills of nowadays might be, although I have no knowledge that they produce some that are different to those of Zion) where the memory can be erased so that in  most cases no data (the splinter) remains. Maybe you are lucky and remove the splinter from their mind, but maybe you're not and the splinter remains. Your argument only is able to slow down the process I said to the degree of efficiency of the blue pill.

So what your saying then is that any person that has taken the bluepill after going threw the procedures we have now is going to wake up? Thats what your saying right? that the offering of the choice affects the subconcious and that cant be undone?

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree. if this was true humans would be wakeing up left and right without takeing pills becasue there subconcious was alterd and this entire procedue would a danger period because if you so much as talk to a person they wake up. You said it yourself the subconcoius is not something that is easly manipulated so how is something like this going to affect it? It's not and if it does the bluepill takes care of it.

"You didn't come here to make the choice you've alreayd made it. Your here to understand why you made it" Thats what the pills do, they offer an explination of why your about to choose red or blue.

Amazing how hard people will argue to defend their position now that they've seen the truth about us, isn't it, guys?

Look at them, fighting so desperately to cling to their own false assumptions. Just like a bluepill who isn't ready to be freed.

This just goes to show you, no matter what, people are just going to keep their minds closed and think what they want to think just because that's what they've been told.

Actions speak louder than words, I suppose.

Lets break this down slow and eazy for the Special Ed Brigade. [You know who you are]

As the Truce dictates, Zion is allowed to offer the choice to any of the 1% who do not beleive the system. They are allowed to do this in the method that offers choice. A red and blue pill. That is the only way acceptable, and the only way allowed under the truce.

EPN? You can have "big ideas" and a "vision" all you want, and can relase your "manifesto" at will. But any actions taken outside of offering the red or blue pill to the applicable 1%, and you will be outside the bounds of the Truce, and we will kill you.

NightTrace, Customer Service Tech, The Mega City Department of Energy

GoDGiVeR wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

99% isn't allowed to be aware, have it offerd, or even persue the choice thus they are bound to stay in the Matrix.

Actually that is wrong. All 100% have the choice, but only 1% are aware of it. The other 99% are not not (which means yes) allowed to be aware of it, have it offered or being able to persue the choice. The problem is: They are simply unaware of it and don't "need" to become aware of it as they have chosen (according to the choice EVERYONE has been given) that this is the world they want to live in. But that doesn't mean that they can't change that choice of theirs at any given time.  But forcing them to chance their choice by the means you stated Gami, well...

Wrong? Oh so then that little mission set in the Machine criticle archives where they were tracking down a Zion ship that sent out a few emails to the masses to locate potential bluepills never happend right? I believe there reasoning for trying to locate it bwas because it was sent to everyone and not people in the 1% that accoridng to them are allowed to be freed which was a violation of the truce. Right now no one outside the 1% is allowed to know about the truth, to be offerd a chance to find out about the truth, or even allowed to know it exicest outside the subconcious.

Pfft, that's inside information then (that archieve). I think that anyone in the system can adress themselves to those topics, with boundaries (of course, but unfortunately) given. But actually it is inevitable nowadays since the redpill and Exile population grows and their (passive and active) influence gets stronger but not yet stronger than Mashine control. It is a matter of time until the Mashines either drastically seperate us from the public or let them roam around more freely. What do you think is more possible?

It doesnt matter, the fact is that people are not being allowed to hear something or even haveing the chance to decide if they want to hear it. Freedom of speech aparently does not apply when dealing with the truth and that is what needs to be changed. Stop the censorship, stop babying everyone and allow huamnity to think for it's self again.

So you're for the second version (marked). I can't say that the censorship is good but neither can I say that's totally evil since it keeps us at bay and Zion safe.

As I stated earlier, giving everyone, depsite of their own subconscious choice, the choice to take the blue pill or take the red pill, the experience will ultimately alter their subconscious leading to a dramatic increase of those who want free and thus unbalancing the system of the Matrix as seen by the Oracle (she forewsaw a balance at 1%). This will inexorably lead to a cataclysmic system crash ((the same way it should have gone when Neo chose to save Trinity instead of reinserting to the prime program and resetting the Zion/Matrix cycle. But Neo found a way... you know that part. I say this OOC cause my character doesn't know this.)) and therfore to the nullifying of the truth and the upcoming extinction of the human race. If the Mashines 
could survive without humanity is another question but they wouldn't allow us to get that far, even if that means
to break the truce.

And as I said earler no it wont. The bluepill, why are you people forgetting about that pill. What it does, what its there for, why Cypherites use it on people and themselves. The bluepill puts a person into a deep sleep that when they wake up from they think everything taht happend to them that day was just a dream. The only people this wont work on is those that are apart of the 1%. The rest of them aftering takieng are in dream land and when they wake up they forget about it. I't wont increase it, its there so those that they who take it go back to there peacefuly lives they don't want to give up and so they stay happy.

The bluepill cannot alter the subconscious as you belief. It erases your memory but if I may draw an anology to Computers: You can erase any data you like but some parts will always be reconstructable. Of course there are more enhanced eraser programs that work so efficient that nearly no data can be reconstructed but that's still not enough and such programs are rarely used. According to this analogy and the fact that the humans of Zion produced and worked on the design of both pills, one can say that the erasing program of the blue pill is not at an level of efficiency (although Mashine Blue Pills of nowadays might be, although I have no knowledge that they produce some that are different to those of Zion) where the memory can be erased so that in  most cases no data (the splinter) remains. Maybe you are lucky and remove the splinter from their mind, but maybe you're not and the splinter remains. Your argument only is able to slow down the process I said to the degree of efficiency of the blue pill.

So what your saying then is that any person that has taken the bluepill after going threw the procedures we have now is going to wake up? Thats what your saying right? that the offering of the choice affects the subconcious and that cant be undone?

When did I say that the obvious flaw in the deletion programming of the blue pill awakes you sooner or later? I said that there's the possibility that the splinter stays, even after the process. And no, the choice can never be undone. It will affect that person forever. This doesn't necessarily make ppl wake up again, though.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree. if this was true humans would be wakeing up left and right without takeing pills becasue there subconcious was alterd and this entire procedue would a danger period because if you so much as talk to a person they wake up. You said it yourself the subconcoius is not something that is easly manipulated so how is something like this going to affect it? It's not and if it does the bluepill takes care of it.

"You didn't come here to make the choice you've alreayd made it. Your here to understand why you made it" Thats what the pills do, they offer an explination of why your about to choose red or blue.

The blue pill solidifies the subconscious choice that you do not want to know the truth. Of course the experience of that choice could be still stuck afterwards. But those who take the blue after already being free already made the other choice once and thus there's this possibility too. You take it to the extreme though. What I speak of is a small margin of error along the line, which is of course not unimportant. But according to your belief the blue pill takes care of all problems. The choice cannot be undone. And the effect on the subconscious choice of rejecting or accepting the Matrix through taking one of the pills should not be taken all too easy. This is a new topic, since during the war and the Zion/Matrix cycles, there wasn't enough influence and chance through redpills to show this.
Of course, if you take the pills once the affect would be unknowingly (but definitely very) small. But if the process is repeated (which could very well happen these days) the aftereffects could be unwanted and lead unwanted awakening through "bluepill overdose". ((OMG new term creations at it's best )) if you give the blues the choice to think about the choice the margin of error could be widened, the same way it could be widened by every sight of Matrix bending. Heck, it's of course not confirmed neither unconfirmed, even the "invisible" Code Pulse could affect blues at a very small level.
 

EPN? You can have "big ideas" and a "vision" all you want, and can relase your "manifesto" at will. But any actions taken outside of offering the red or blue pill to the applicable 1%, and you will be outside the bounds of the Truce

/agreed. 

Illyria

Amazing how hard people will argue to defend their position now that they've seen the truth about us, isn't it, guys?

Look at them, fighting so desperately to cling to their own false assumptions. Just like a bluepill who isn't ready to be freed.

This just goes to show you, no matter what, people are just going to keep their minds closed and think what they want to think just because that's what they've been told.

Actions speak louder than words, I suppose.

Pfft, that's inside information then (that archieve). I think that anyone in the system can adress themselves to those topics, with boundaries (of course, but unfortunately) given. But actually it is inevitable nowadays since the redpill and Exile population grows and their (passive and active) influence gets stronger but not yet stronger than Mashine control. It is a matter of time until the Mashines either drastically seperate us from the public or let them roam around more freely. What do you think is more possible?

It doesnt matter, the fact is that people are not being allowed to hear something or even haveing the chance to decide if they want to hear it. Freedom of speech aparently does not apply when dealing with the truth and that is what needs to be changed. Stop the censorship, stop babying everyone and allow huamnity to think for it's self again.

So you're for the second version (marked). I can't say that the censorship is good but neither can I say that's totally evil since it keeps us at bay and Zion safe.

We simply want there to be no restirctions for any human when dealing with the choice. Nothing more nothing less.

---

The bluepill cannot alter the subconscious as you belief. It erases your memory but if I may draw an anology to Computers: You can erase any data you like but some parts will always be reconstructable. Of course there are more enhanced eraser programs that work so efficient that nearly no data can be reconstructed but that's still not enough and such programs are rarely used. According to this analogy and the fact that the humans of Zion produced and worked on the design of both pills, one can say that the erasing program of the blue pill is not at an level of efficiency (although Mashine Blue Pills of nowadays might be, although I have no knowledge that they produce some that are different to those of Zion) where the memory can be erased so that in  most cases no data (the splinter) remains. Maybe you are lucky and remove the splinter from their mind, but maybe you're not and the splinter remains. Your argument only is able to slow down the process I said to the degree of efficiency of the blue pill.

So what your saying then is that any person that has taken the bluepill after going threw the procedures we have now is going to wake up? Thats what your saying right? that the offering of the choice affects the subconcious and that cant be undone?

When did I say that the obvious flaw in the deletion programming of the blue pill awakes you sooner or later? I said that there's the possibility that the splinter stays, even after the process. And no, the choice can never be undone. It will affect that person forever. This doesn't necessarily make ppl wake up again, though.

Forgive me then I misunderstood. The splinter will only stay if the person that takes the bluepill was apart of the 1%. For them there subconsious has already determined they are to live in missery within the simulation and unless they can break free of it they wont be happy. How do you fix this for someone that subconcously wants freedom but conciously doesnt? I dont know and can't say I have ever experenced this and I believe it is an area that a specialst would need to examine and figure.

However for those that do not have the splinter the process does nothing to them. As you said it is very hard to alter the subconcoius. A thirty minute talk won't do enough to change it forever and if it does in the slightest then it is something that the bluepill can easily erase completly. Thats just how it works. 

When they take the bluepill those that were happy stay happy. Those that were upset stay upset.

---

The blue pill solidifies the subconscious choice that you do not want to know the truth. Of course the experience of that choice could be still stuck afterwards. But those who take the blue after already being free already made the other choice once and thus there's this possibility too. You take it to the extreme though. What I speak of is a small margin of error along the line, which is of course not unimportant. But according to your belief the blue pill takes care of all problems. The choice cannot be undone. And the effect on the subconscious choice of rejecting or accepting the Matrix through taking one of the pills should not be taken all too easy. This is a new topic, since during the war and the Zion/Matrix cycles, there wasn't enough influence and chance through redpills to show this.
Of course, if you take the pills once the affect would be unknowingly (but definitely very) small. But if the process is repeated (which could very well happen these days) the aftereffects could be unwanted and lead unwanted awakening through "bluepill overdose". ((OMG new term creations at it's best )) if you give the blues the choice to think about the choice the margin of error could be widened, the same way it could be widened by every sight of Matrix bending. Heck, it's of course not confirmed neither unconfirmed, even the "invisible" Code Pulse could affect blues at a very small level.
 

The process would only stick in the minds of those who subconously wanted out. For anyone else it is but a dream because the world was perfect to them and they had no reason to doubt. If a mind is freed and wants back in then it will continue to live happily back in the simulation untill they reawaken. But as it is now anyone who has taken a bluepill is offlimits even if apart of the 1%. The need for this "rule" is for exactlly the reason you put forth. However I believe (if I read right) that the siutation you are discribing is what happens when a peron who has taken the blue pill comes back and asks to be freed. Again this is getting into an area that I can not come up with an anwser for. There mind aparently subconlusly wants to be free of the world but they themselves do not.  Pychatric help could help with this maybe but i do not know. The situation Isn't exaclty one that is seen to often and I believe this would be an area that the Machines would need to take control of and decided.

I personly would let them choose whatever it is they want. They want out, let them be free. They want back in allow them to be reinsurted, they want back out again, then give it to them. Sooner or later they will find the world where they are happy.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

I personly would let them choose whatever it is they want. They want out, let them be free. They want back in allow them to be reinsurted, they want back out again, then give it to them. Sooner or later they will find the world where they are happy.


Yeah but the question now is. Is a multiple switch between the realities and thus also the multiple use of the blue pill healthy? Well, I'm no scientist but I'd say no. Of course it hasn't happened so far as far as I know.

There is no point in continuing the arguments here.

Our manifesto was not published here to invite your challenges. Although we had no doubt there would be some, and we do not fear these questions, this was designed to be a statement of who we are and what we intend to do.

You may continue to argue your points, to pick apart our declaration, but know that your arguments will not deter us from our mission.

The Machines are the ones who must realize failure. No matter how hard they try to control the human race, they can never be rid of even the smallest percentage of us who will never accept them as masters.

There is no point in continuing the arguments here.

Our manifesto was not published here to invite your challenges. Although we had no doubt there would be some, and we do not fear these questions, this was designed to be a statement of who we are and what we intend to do.

You may continue to argue your points, to pick apart our declaration, but know that your arguments will not deter us from our mission.

The Machines are the ones who must realize failure. No matter how hard they try to control the human race, they can never be rid of even the smallest percentage of us who will never accept them as masters.

You know something everyone is caught up defending their own views and pointing fingers to the other side. But the truth of the matter is Machines as a whole have turned mankind into slaves regardless of their "good intentions".

At this point putting aside any and all affiliation with zion,mero,cyph or epn  at the end of the day we are all human

And for that reason we must put aside those loyalties we have made and think about the bigger picture.

Is our current reality what we want for humanity? Is it in the best interest of humanity?

Again forget about your loyalties and your tranperent hate/love towards one another and embrace the bigger picture.

 Are we as humans going to allow our own creation to bring us to our knees for an indefinite amount of time?

You know something everyone is caught up defending their own views and pointing fingers to the other side. But the truth of the matter is Machines as a whole have turned mankind into slaves regardless of their "good intentions".

Are you not free?  Do the machines still attack humans and not allow them to roam the earth at thier will?

The blue pills you know do not know they are in a dream world, and they live what would be a normal life if they had not destroyed thier own real world. To me that does not sound like slavery. That sounds like a 2nd chance and a paradise. Those who reject the system ON THIER OWN (for saftey reasons) are free to leave and live a diffrent way life. One that suites them better than the matrix. 99.9% of the blue pills like thier surrounding and accept it. How can 99.9% of the population be wrong?

At the 1st sight of a Human doing backwork for the machines while a robot whips them, then i will agree that humans are enslaved. But as it stands, that has not/will not happen. Bluepills are simply, asleep, and living out thier lives.

There is no point in continuing the arguments here.

Our manifesto was not published here to invite your challenges. Although we had no doubt there would be some, and we do not fear these questions, this was designed to be a statement of who we are and what we intend to do.

You may continue to argue your points, to pick apart our declaration, but know that your arguments will not deter us from our mission.

The Machines are the ones who must realize failure. No matter how hard they try to control the human race, they can never be rid of even the smallest percentage of us who will never accept them as masters.

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

There is no point in continuing the arguments here.

Our manifesto was not published here to invite your challenges. Although we had no doubt there would be some, and we do not fear these questions, this was designed to be a statement of who we are and what we intend to do.

You may continue to argue your points, to pick apart our declaration, but know that your arguments will not deter us from our mission.

The Machines are the ones who must realize failure. No matter how hard they try to control the human race, they can never be rid of even the smallest percentage of us who will never accept them as masters.

The machines dont want you to accept them as your masters you idiot!  They want you to accept them as your EQUALS.

"repeatedly personally attacking someone is no way to win an argument."

I'd like to belive it and want to believe it but from what have seen and still see I can't believe it. Not yet. The truce put us as equals. Zion and 01 just two cities carrying on, but one side couldn't give up ithe control it ocne had over the other and still can't. They have to know whats going on inside, have to have access to everything, have to always maintain this since of power over the other. And as long as they keep it up, then we will never be equals. One side is always trying to push the other down. When they stop trying to police the world then we can be equals again but untill then exepect a rebellion.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

I personly would let them choose whatever it is they want. They want out, let them be free. They want back in allow them to be reinsurted, they want back out again, then give it to them. Sooner or later they will find the world where they are happy.

Yeah but the question now is. Is a multiple switch between the realities and thus also the multiple use of the blue pill healthy? Well, I'm no scientist but I'd say no. Of course it hasn't happened so far as far as I know.

As i said before that final piece, it would require a specialst to make the final call I would think but the situation is very unlikely and created by asking "what if".  

((Imax, I'm gonna ask you nicely, as a favor to a fellow player: please do not allow the hostility to spill over to OOC posts. You got a personal beef with a person, you take it up in PM's to that person. Leave the rest of us out of it.

Do not get this thread locked.))

((Imax, I'm gonna ask you nicely, as a favor to a fellow player: please do not allow the hostility to spill over to OOC posts. You got a personal beef with a person, you take it up in PM's to that person. Leave the rest of us out of it.

Do not get this thread locked.))

For those who wish to stop us, I beg you to try.

 I am Steelle, and I support this broadcast

It doesnt work that way. This is why RP sux, its all about one person acting like they are better than the other.

I'd like to belive it and want to believe it but from what have seen and still see I can't believe it. Not yet. The truce put us as equals. Zion and 01 just two cities carrying on

Not exactly two cities...more like one city, and the rest of the world.  Only a very small fraction of the world is under human control. 

GamiSB wrote:

 but one side couldn't give up ithe control it ocne had over the other and still can't. They have to know whats going on inside, have to have access to everything, have to always maintain this since of power over the other. And as long as they keep it up, then we will never be equals. One side is always trying to push the other down. When they stop trying to police the world then we can be equals again but untill then exepect a rebellion.

They police the world because they control most of it.

Illyria

imax wrote:

It doesnt work that way. This is why RP sux, its all about one person acting like they are better than the other.

(( Ehm? I can prove how big my cohones really are in rpvp or a duel. If I win, I didn't act like I am better; I am better. Tell ya the truth, pvp and duels become way more intense if you have a good reason to fight, with a nice story and all. ))

Reeverb wrote:

imax wrote:

It doesnt work that way. This is why RP sux, its all about one person acting like they are better than the other.

(( Ehm? I can prove how big my cohones really are in rpvp or a duel. If I win, I didn't act like I am better; I am better. Tell ya the truth, pvp and duels become way more intense if you have a good reason to fight, with a nice story and all. ))

((but these guys arnt on vector, so they are free to run thier mouths 24/7))

/endorse, though I only speak for myself, and not the Brood as a whole.

Thank you, Vedren, and all of those who have given their endorsements and confirmations here. ((btw V, your sig rocks:thumbup)

A man once said

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"

The Machine is not working. Freedom was not meant for just the few that are special. It was meant for everyone. Zion can not see this. They wish to only free those that they deem worthy and not even attempt at the others. The Machines want every one plugged back in as do the Cypherites. The Merovingian is a man only out for himself and no one else.

If you are tired of being in the dark, tired of seeing others in the dark and not freed, tired of the lies, tired of the mystery behind our savior's remains and how things are run within Zion, then consider joining us. We are E Pluribus Neo. We fight for giving all of humanity a choice in freedom or slavery. We fight for the truth. We fight for what Neo wanted.

Remember, "It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance."

May Neo's example be a beacon of hope and a shining example to all.

The Machine is not working. Freedom was not meant for just the few that are special. It was meant for everyone. Zion can not see this. They wish to only free those that they deem worthy and not even attempt at the others. The Machines want every one plugged back in as do the Cypherites. The Merovingian is a man only out for himself and no one else.

We fight for what Neo wanted.

May Neo's example be a beacon of hope and a shining example to all.

Also, the Machines know that plugging everyone back into the Matrix would cause a system failure, because of the 1% that reject it.  That's why they created Zion in the first place -- as a place to hold those who reject the simulation. 

Illyria

Also, the Machines know that plugging everyone back into the Matrix would cause a system failure, because of the 1% that reject it.  That's why they created Zion in the first place -- as a place to hold those who reject the simulation. 

Illyria

Now who thinks they know what Neo wanted, eh GodGiver?

Imax, you are quoting Morpheus from a time before the end of the hostilities. In fact, it is documented that while Morpheus and Neo were together, they freed a record number of minds from the system. The Matrix is different now; more people are becoming aware, thanks in part to the everyday activities of the Awakened. The human mind is stronger than you credit it. The Sleepers realize that something is . . . amiss. You have only to read the paper to see that.

It does not take a mind-reader, or even an Oracle, to know what Neo wanted for humanity. One only has to look at his actions. . .and his sacrifice. Before Neo stood and faced Deus Ex Machina high on that black tower overlooking the Machine City, before he faced his final choice, before he even uttered the word "peace," he fought for us. Yes it is true that Neo died for peace, for that is what he could give us. Until that choice, though, he, like every other man and woman before him, fought the Machines every day. For what did they fight? For Peace? Co-Existence? No, my friends. They fought and died for the liberation of mankind.

Right up until the day Neo choose to return to the Source, he fought for Freedom. This is the example that Neo left for us.

Illyria, I could not have made the point clearer if I had written it myself. You said, "That's why [the machines] created Zion in the first place -- as a place to hold those who reject the simulation." If that doesn't scream 'control' to every freedom-loving human being, I don't know what will.

The Rogue Agent, Smith, is attributed with a phrase that best captures our plight. He is purported to have said, "We are not here because we are free. We are here because we are not free." It took an exiled Agent of the System, one who was likely quite mad by our standards, to realize the Truth. So long as the Machines own the body, they own the mind. They own our souls.

It is for freedom from this, that E Pluribus Neo struggles. What you read into this manifesto, is your own bias, your own fears and doubts. You see your own disbeliefs in our declaration. Your minds are not free. And you are afraid.

The time is coming soon to either stand for something, or die for nothing.

Imax, you are quoting Morpheus from a time before the end of the hostilities. In fact, it is documented that while Morpheus and Neo were together, they freed a record number of minds from the system. The Matrix is different now; more people are becoming aware, thanks in part to the everyday activities of the Awakened. The human mind is stronger than you credit it. The Sleepers realize that something is . . . amiss. You have only to read the paper to see that.

It does not take a mind-reader, or even an Oracle, to know what Neo wanted for humanity. One only has to look at his actions. . .and his sacrifice. Before Neo stood and faced Deus Ex Machina high on that black tower overlooking the Machine City, before he faced his final choice, before he even uttered the word "peace," he fought for us. Yes it is true that Neo died for peace, for that is what he could give us. Until that choice, though, he, like every other man and woman before him, fought the Machines every day. For what did they fight? For Peace? Co-Existence? No, my friends. They fought and died for the liberation of mankind.

Now who thinks they know what Neo wanted, eh GodGiver?

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

 

Wrong again, they fought for survival. And now that there is no one to fight, no one threating thier lives, we have nothing to do but rebuild and live. We can live together, but EPN does not want that. They want what Smith wanted, they want everything. Selfishness is the ultimate sin and EPN is more selfish than anyone in the matrix. Even more than the Merv himself.

You misdunderstand our objective my friend.

Humans are not slaves we are not to be used for the wellbeing of another species (if it can even be called that) Lets keep in mind machines are not alive.

Therefore animals have more rights than machines do.

Machines as we know them today are highly evolved thinking programs, yet with all their technological advances they still only mimic LIFE.

For that reason they have no right to terminate us, enslave us or even demand our respect.

All EPN wants is for mankind to be free, yes some are more carebear-like than others, but at the end we all want the same thing.

Oh one last thoght how could setting all humans free be consisdered a selfish act? are you not human as well?

It's a selfish act because they're putting their own desires over the well-being of others -- those that they're "freeing" -- because until there's room enough and food enough outside of the Matrix for those billions of bluepills, freeing them will only lead to misery and starvation.

Illyria

You misdunderstand our objective my friend.

Humans are not slaves we are not to be used for the wellbeing of another species (if it can even be called that) Lets keep in mind machines are not alive.

Oh one last thoght how could setting all humans free be consisdered a selfish act? are you not human as well?

"Who is to say that a machines, endowed with the very spirit of man, did not deserve a fair trial?"

                                                                                                                                              ~The Animatrix

Who are you to force every human to make a choice that will most likey lead to thier death? 

And lets get one thing strait, you are no friend of mine.

Rxu wrote:

You misdunderstand our objective my friend.

Humans are not slaves we are not to be used for the wellbeing of another species (if it can even be called that) Lets keep in mind machines are not alive.

Oh one last thoght how could setting all humans free be consisdered a selfish act? are you not human as well?

"Who is to say that a machines, endowed with the very spirit of man, did not deserve a fair trial?"

                                                                                                                                              ~The Animatrix

Who are you to force every human to make a choice that will most likey lead to thier death? 

And lets get one thing strait, you are no friend of mine.

You need to realize that humans would have never been put in this situation if it werent for the machines and their selfish need for energy.

If AI is so great and men endowed these machines with our spirit as you say, wouldn't they have experimented with other methods to gather energy.

 But of course it is easier to farm humans and feed them their own dead to use them as personal power plants.

Yeah humans had a need, they needed to work less and make their lives easier...and through the centuries we experimented with all sorts of tools and even today machines are a tool created by man to work for us.

So in principle it is wrong to defend the machines, as they are no better or greater than any appliance made to facilitate life for humans.

You need to realize that humans would have never been put in this situation if it werent for the machines and their selfish need for energy.
If AI is so great and men endowed these machines with our spirit as you say, wouldn't they have experimented with other methods to gather energy.
But of course it is easier to farm humans and feed them their own dead to use them as personal power plants.
Yeah humans had a need, they needed to work less and make their lives easier...and through the centuries we experimented with all sorts of tools and
even today machines are a tool created by man to work for us.

So in principle it is wrong to defend the machines, as they are no better or greater than any appliance made to facilitate life for humans.

Listen you bafoon, and stop putting so many spaces between your lines.

The HUMANS destroyed the sky, and with it the very energy source that the machines needed to survive, alonf with the rest of the planet. Look around, nothing lives without electric powered UV light. There is no sun, and therfor no energy. But yes the Machines expiremented and tried MANY ways to produce engergy for them sleves. And the salavageing of the human body was the best answer to tha problem. After what the humans did to thier own world and how they tried to destroy the machines in the war, how can you blame them for takeing the path they did. How dare you blame someone for trying to survive.

All the machines ever wanted was to live together, but that was to much to ask then, and to much to ask now apprently.

((im going to go out on a limb and say youve never watched the 2nd Renaissance, if you havent you should, all these outragous claims have been asnwered already in those short films.))

BlueCode wrote:

shinpseudo wrote:

BlueCode wrote:

Code pulses, bombs, there all the same - and E Pluribus Neo dont have a problem with setting any of them off.

That little piece of ignorance nullifies any other potential credibility the remainder of your argument may have had.

What? You think that by insulting me it'll pass off the atrocities you've created and been a part of in the matrix? You fool.

Even you yourself have said that my statement may have some potential credibility. You know it's the truth.

    May have had. Meaning it could of, but it dont. Go back to sleep troll.

"Listen you bafoon, and stop putting so many spaces between your lines".

At this point I normally would stop replying as it is obvious this conversation has gone beyond your maturity level, But since there is little RP in-game....

 But yes the Machines expiremented and tried MANY ways to produce engergy for them sleves. And the salavageing of the human body was the best answer to tha problem.

Of course machines were designed to stop working without the power source of the sun..It is a fail safe system. Do you not enjoy the safety in knowing that if your PC was to never shut off on it's own that you have several ways to turn it off, including pulling the plug?

After what the humans did to thier own world and how they tried to destroy the machines in the war, how can you blame them for takeing the path they did. How dare you blame someone for trying to survive. 

Lets get one thing clear, "someone" is you,me and anybody else that lives and breathes, even those in the deepest of comma's, but no machine is a "someone" they are after all machines Do you formally call an ATM machine Miss? or Mrs? I thought so.

Your argument still is surrounded by a dillusional thought that these machines care about you somehow when we all know that if they really understood what caring was, they would never have kept us in these pods. Also anybody that truly cares is capable of giving their own life in exchange for another .

Never seen a machine do that, nor will I ever.

It was the machines purpose to serve us, just like it is our purpose to survive, it has been the same since the beggining of time.