Neo not the Anomaly? - MXO Forum Archive

#36300023157 08/12/2006 23:58:12 Neo not the Anomaly?

Rarebit Archived image unavailable: icon_minipost.gif 08/12/2006 01:30:11 Subject: Re:Ask the devs an MXO question v.2

ManicV wrote:

What's your theory on what happened to Neo/Smith at the end of Revolutions?

During my Christmas vacation, and after doing a marathon of the Matrix DVD Ultimate Collection, I came up with a whole crazy scheme that explains, as far as I'm concerned, what happened there, and why things happened the way they did. It carries implications for the future of the story, and I still have hopes of pitching some of it to Paul, so I don't really want to go into it too much. I guess I'll just say that part of my theory is that Neo was not, in fact, the anomaly (I realize this strains the most obvious interpretation of one of the lines from the movies, but eh), and that he was designed to cancel out Smith, which he did.

Hmm lets debate this...

#36300023167 08/13/2006 00:27:11 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Well in order for me to determine if I agree with your or not you would have to go into more detail about this "design"... by who?

Smith is not a problem until there is Neo, so you would have to explain why the answer to the problem creates the problem in the first place. Why go through the motion? How do you start from the negative ie how do you start with -7 if you have not established |7|

There is another thread here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=36300001496

The films, animatrix, & comics lead me to believe that Neo(by being host of this program or 'code' SMILEY is Hybrid. There is no other justification that I have found, that have answers for those 3 questions. Bane, obviously his negative version in the real, shows proof that a program can use a human body as a host or 'mere vessel'.

#36300023181 08/13/2006 01:24:05 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Heh. Well, you can debate these things up and down, and I'm not going to try to claim that what I said there is entirely supported by the movie scripts verbatim. There are two lines that seem to identify Neo as the "anomaly," both in Reloaded. There's the Agent near the beginning:

Neo: Hiya, fellas.
Agent 1: It's him.
Agent 2: The anomaly.

And then a line from the Architect:

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.

Now, if I were going to try to work my way out of that, I would say that a) the Agent is a relatively low-level program, and hasn't been told the whole story, and b) the Architect calls Neo not "the anomaly," but "the eventuality of an anomaly," meaning that his existence is due to the existence of the anomaly, but separate from it.

So nyah. =p

EDIT to kill t3h smiley. :ppppp

#36300023186 08/13/2006 01:34:00 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

If he is the "eventuality of the anomaly" and not it itself, I will need further explanation all of Neo's dealings with the Oracle.

Oracle - "I'm sorry kid. You got the gift, but you're waiting for something. Another life maybe, who knows."

The Oracle beleived he was the anomaly, how are/would you construe her actions taken and things said to fulfill your theory?

#36300023188 08/13/2006 01:40:36 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

yourbuddy wrote:

If he is the "eventuality of the anomaly" and not it itself, I will need further explanation all of Neo's dealings with the Oracle. Oracle - "I'm sorry kid. You got the gift, but you're waiting for something. Another life maybe, who knows." The Oracle beleived he was the anomaly, how are/would you construe her actions taken and things said to fulfill your theory?

The Oracle doesn't exactly play straight with people. That line you quoted is a pretty good example of it, in fact.

#36300023190 08/13/2006 01:56:16 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Rarebit wrote:

meaning that his existence is due to the existence of the anomaly, but separate from it.

In terms of "powers outside the matrix" is carrying the code a human quality? Johnny Mnemonic like maybe, but in a debate of semantics it would be like saying fighting over Jesus vs. God. I call it Hybrid (for lack of a better term)... you call it?

#36300023192 08/13/2006 02:01:11 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

AqueousRei wrote:

Rarebit wrote:
meaning that his existence is due to the existence of the anomaly, but separate from it.
In terms of "powers outside the matrix" is carrying the code a human quality? Johnny Mnemonic like maybe, but in a debate of semantics it would be like saying fighting over Jesus vs. God. I call it Hybrid (for lack of a better term)... you call it?

"I see providence, I see purpose." But I don't want to go into that, because it may end up being too spoilerish.

#36300023194 08/13/2006 02:04:37 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

In time travels you know not such things as spoilers SMILEY

#36300023384 08/13/2006 11:03:03 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Rarebit wrote:

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision.

eventuality

n : a possible event or occurrence or result

You are the occurrence of an anomaly.

You are the result of an anomaly.

Just putting it out there.

Only problem I see with your ideas Rare is this:

The Architect: The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

The Architect says he is the one.

#36300023427 08/13/2006 12:12:26 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Ah, but where does it say that the One is the anomaly?

#36300023463 08/13/2006 13:14:57 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Well, Neo is the anomaly embodied. The anomaly was the '0.1%' of the human population that wouldn't accept the program of the Matrix no matter what... I think?

Then again, the anomaly might be like a worm the Machines could never delete--A worm that eventually works its way back to the surface of the program forcing the Matrix to 'Save to System' or 'Reboot' instead of letting the worm take over. It's possible that Agent Smith is not as unique as we think he is but merely was a more important program which got infected and that the thing we now think of as Smith is actually just that worm somewhere in the darkness of the Matrix, lying in wait.

Though, I don't know. It's a reoccuring thing, or was, according to the Architect. That's why I like to think of this game being set in the past... And we, in real life, are the future. SMILEY

We live in a perfect 7th or 11th version of the Matrix or whatever where no one is able to reject the simulation and every program is doing what it must do.

That's just a theory I had for a while now. It seems like a good ultimate ending if you ask me. To incorporate our time and present into the storyline like that instead of making the Matrix just some futuristic science fiction story, eh? Heh. I dunno.

#36300023470 08/13/2006 13:24:16 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Though one is the prime number, prime program... The Matrix just needs a reboot or something to keep the 0.1% of humans unaware so that they all don't wake up at once. 0.1% is a lot of people when it's like billions of people in the Matrix. Yeah... Probably about 700,000,000 people or so that will eventually reject the System. That's like 2 and a half United States of America suddenly disappearing from the world, or just suddenly dropping dead with no explanation. Kind of sounds like a Rapture to me... Hmm.

I'm getting a head of myself. It's been a very long time since I've seen the films in their entireties. Maybe the Architect said 0.01%?

What could this anomaly be? It's inherit to the programming of the Matrix and requires a unique human being, randomly set up with the 'Prime Program', to reset it or patch it or something.

#36300023513 08/13/2006 14:48:30 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Heh. Sykin your right about the 7th Matrix, we are in the perfect world. SMILEY

Your right rarebit about that saying you are the one. So then what was he, if he wasn't the one? Perhaps a tool of the Machine desinged to balance out all evil? Come to think of it, the game still takes place in the 6th Matrix....

Ah to many ideas running through my head right now, all of this written down sounds like blabber to me. Pardon my poor chain of thought.

#36300023571 08/13/2006 16:28:12 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

It was 1%, and of course there are still people rejecting the simulation--where do you think Zion's new recruits come from?

#36300023576 08/13/2006 16:36:59 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Rarebit's new avatar is... An inkblot test!!

Heh. But yes, Rarebit, 1%... That'd make for a lot of subscriptions! :O

Let's say the anomaly is a problem. Are you thinking Neo is supposed to be the hotfix, not the anomaly? That the One is essentially supposed to fix the DE bug? Just as an example.

#36300030278 08/21/2006 07:11 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

This got off-topic due to Smith again...*CENSORED* him!

#36300030929 08/22/2006 06:57:18 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

My theory?

Like Sykin says, Neo (aka The One) is not actually the anomoly (the anomoly simply being the mathmatical percentage) but instead the pyhsical, and ineviatable, manifestation of it. The upgraded agents simply refer to him as the anomoly because well... its easier to say than 'the natural occurance diritive from the anomoly'. This theroy fits with the Architect's dialogue too.

As for Smith, he was an agent to begin with, nothing more. Well, maybe a bit crazy but hey. Until Neo was reborn and The One code awakened Smith was just another program. But when The One was activated a natural counterbalance had to occur, this counterbalance code was released the moment Neo was reborn as The One. Ity then began to search for a host. Since Smith was the first thing Neo killed, causing his his code to scatter all over the place it chose him. Since he was an easy target.

This infection was what led smith to deny his programming to return to the source. Instead, he became Neo's opposite. But only after Neo's awakening. This would explain why the Architect didn't delete Smith beforehand. Because he simply didn't know he'd be the counterbalance.

From there on out the pre-planned scenario played out, The Machines were sent to destroy Zion and the 2 opposites played their parts inside the simulation. Now, this normally cumulates to the re-insertion of the prime program when the Architect meets The One. Giving him the choice between a reset or the complete destruction of the human race.

But this time The One choose not to return to the source. This threw all the Architect's plans out of whack, the opposite's existance past the re-insertion point was never planned before. Smith grew past The Machine's control. This is why Deus Ex Machina agreed to the truce.

And the rest they say is history in the making.

SkyJackal's MxO Video Collection

#36300031377 08/22/2006 17:27:46 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

The greatest of dreams are experienced right before dying. E63 E25 E51 E53 E32 P8 E14 37 38 J800 ?

#36300033416 08/25/2006 13:02:01 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

RainKingX wrote:

So...

The problem is choice
Neo is the anomaly and the integral anomaly.
Smith was/is Neo's equal and opposite reaction.

Which Is why IF Neo was some type of Arc or Oracle created Hotfix it was for the problem of zion NOT to Patch Smith. The other point being that otherwise the Architect could have deleted smith at least before Neo bugged Smith, if not before theSmith Virus takes on the Oracles RSI.

#36300034136 08/26/2006 22:37:44 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

AqueousRei wrote:

RainKingX wrote:

So...

The problem is choice
Neo is the anomaly and the integral anomaly.
Smith was/is Neo's equal and opposite reaction.

Which Is why IF Neo was some type of Arc or Oracle created Hotfix it was for the problem of zion NOT to Patch Smith. The other point being that otherwise the Architect could have deleted smith at least before Neo bugged Smith, if not before theSmith Virus takes on the Oracles RSI.

interesting theory.

#36300034173 08/26/2006 23:32:39 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

My first theory was that the Oracle created neo playin the Virgin Mary in symbol, but in character making neo the ultimate probe for collecting information on the human subjects using the cookies as spyware as with the rest of the potentials. But then I watched AI, I robot, T3 & read Let it all fall down and that changed my perception of it. It seems like it makes more sense to me that Reeves captured neo so well with his Bill "whoa" Point Blankness because if a program that was a manifestation of AI within the matrix was to aquire a human host, it would be to a certain degree childlike. Now, having had a full human life within the Matrix Neo is not *CENSORED*... But the Oracle cracks her jokes on him & he stumbles onto things more than he really figures them out.
Then I go to Bane. The first time I saw smith take him I knew what happened but "OK how did he just do that?" +/-
If smith can do it, so can Neo. I think this is very important in the explanation of the things neo does outside the Matrix in the real. If that was the "real world" then what neo was doing was not exactly human. An AI program escapes from the system because it would be destroyed and it hides there inside a baby coppertop, perhaps it was born there instead of inside the Matrix, or maybe it was actually one of Peters EPOS that got trapped in the fields during the webstream, agents come and shoot up the harddrive in the Matrix and it is stuck out there. I don't rule out that the Arc or oracle made him, I just have not seen any proof. Either way, if he is just another pure human potential then I don't really understand how he could see what was going on without eyes?

#36300034175 08/26/2006 23:36:01 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

lol R3tarrrdeded gets censored ...
whoa.

#36300035140 08/28/2006 16:58:04 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Yeah I was wondering how he got those powers out of the matrix. Keep it up SMILEY

this stuff is interesting stuff to read.

#36300036617 08/30/2006 13:31:37 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

The Anomaly Problem

Woah. In writing my first response to this, I was all prepared to argue that Neo was the anomaly. Mostly because of the Agents referring to him as such. After pouring over the Architect's speech during their meeting however, I realize that this is not the truth. Neo is not the systemic anomaly that the architect refers to.

The anomaly is what happens when a human becomes aware of the Matrix.

The Machines control the humans (bluepills) in the Matrix, by making them aware of the fact that they are part of the simulation. The only way they can do this with 99% acceptance is to give us a choice on a "nearly unconcious level": choose the Matrix, or reject it. Those who reject it, become aware of the simulation and become Awakened (redpills). These Awakened represent the 1% who cannot accept the Matrix or be controlled by the Machines. The Architect says that if these Awakened were left unchecked, they "would constitute an escalating probability of disaster." That is when Neo realizes exactly "why" he is supposed to save the human race.

The One is how the Machines control the 1%.

Using a Prophecy passed down by the 5th One at the beginning of the sixth cycle of the One, the Machines have put the freed humans on a path to follow this prophecy until the "return" of the One. And so, the humans wait, hoping for the day when the One returns to save humanity. This benefits the Machines, because the humans don't get it in their heads to start tearing apart the Matrix or take on kamikaze missions to take out the battery city with hovercraft, or resort to other crazy unpredictable behavior. All they have to do is wait and watch for their savior.

Then, when the Machines deem Zion to have become "full", they create the One (a thirty-forty year process, because Neo is "irrevocably human" SMILEY and begin the process of destroying Zion.

Maybe the upgraded Agents refer to Neo as "the anomaly" because he is an Awakened, and therefore an anomaly. Maybe he was "the" anomaly they were sent to find.

I would also venture to say that the scenario of a savior would appeal most to humans, making it the most readily accepted form of control the Machines could use.

***

The Smith Problem

Neo did not become the One until he died. During this critical process, he realized the extent to which he could control the Matrix. After this pivotal moment, his awareness of the Matrix was heightened immensely. Until Neo overwrote the Smith program, the Agent was just that: a program. When Neo overwrote him, a connection was created between Neo and Smith, whereby Smith gained Neo's heightened awareness of the Matrix. Every time Neo's powers progressed, so did Smith's.

In short, Smith was an accident, created by the One. That's why he was beyond the control of the Machines.

***

D@mn , I wish I could make a living at this. Right or wrong, it's a lot of fun. . . SMILEY

#36300036873 08/30/2006 18:12:04 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

The Anomaly Problem
Woah. In writing my first response to this, I was all prepared to argue that Neo was the anomaly. Mostly because of the Agents referring to him as such. After pouring over the Architect's speech during their meeting however, I realize that this is not the truth. Neo is not the systemic anomaly that the architect refers to.

But if all awakened humans are anomalys... then Neo would be the root of the problem because he freed thousands people in the six months between The Matrix 1 and Reloaded.

So he would be the anomaly that is at the root of the other anomalys.... SMILEY

#36300036954 08/30/2006 20:36:15 Re:Neo not the Anomaly?

Well, it's not thousands, exactly. Morpheus only says that "in the past 6 months, we have freed more minds than in the past 6 years". While this number is probably substantial, considering the big deal they seemed to make of it, it probably wasn't thousands.

And they never really say how proactive their 'recruiting' process was. Perhaps the anomaly was occuring at an accelerated rate. This may have been the catalyst that the Machines used to identify the time to initiate the actual attack.

You're on the right track, though. Keep it coming!