stacking clothing

35 posts · 2006-05-30 12:49:07 to 2007-09-18 00:15:00

#35600001459 05/30/2006 12:49:07 stacking clothing
found this out the other day, sploit that needs to be fixed, when you activate your class buffs then one hyper def then switch your clothes, it stacks clothing buffs, you have to use the same fighting style for the sploit to work, so duel hanguns the whole time, no using smgs with duelist or it resets, same with switching from hyper dodge to hyper sense have to stay with your def u began with, one of my friends who never loses a duel told me this sploit and its why he never loses, needs to be fixed asap



Moose Juice
  
#35600001462 05/30/2006 13:49:42 Re: stacking clothing
way to go, now every noob in the mega-city will be using it.


rofl.
#35600001464 05/30/2006 14:06:45 Re: stacking clothing
Best way to handle these things is a /ccr folks. Now people will begin using these things...
#35600001465 05/30/2006 15:10:26 Re: stacking clothing
What your describing if I understand it right is that you wear 1 set of clothing activate the buff then wear a different set of clothing for added bonuses?
#35600001466 05/30/2006 15:14:11 Re: stacking clothing
Yeah, that's pretty wierd. Can you keep stacking clothing over and over or only once?

Might want to edit your post and just /bug it.
#35600001467 05/30/2006 15:30:06 Re: stacking clothing
I think I know exactly what he's talking about. I'll send it to you in a PM to make it easy to understand, NoRepro.
#35600001469 05/30/2006 16:27:42 Re: stacking clothing
This is just another example of the devs ignoring our reports. I personnally spoke with you about this back in QA via private tells. You told me it was being handled... I don't get it?

However I discovered it with abilites but it also affects clothing.

Flashback!

Message Edited by lithium on 05.30.2006 08:32 PM



#35600001470 05/30/2006 16:44:51 Re: stacking clothing

That was the response I was given when I queried the devs about the issue at the time. This is the offical position for this bug in regards to clothing or passive abilities.


At this time exploiting the fact that Buffs do not dynamically update is considered a bug. As such, using said bug for gain either in PvE or PvP is considered exploiting. And if caught doing so is subject to the penalities deamed appropriate by CS.

#35600001474 05/30/2006 16:54:30 Re: stacking clothing
Just to offer a solution, although I'm not sure how feasible it is... Why not make all buffs refresh every few seconds? This would make it impossible to use clothing buffs as stated above and would keep the player updated on how long the buff was actually lasting, instead of just having to gauge it by what size section of the buff was lit up.
#35600001475 05/30/2006 17:18:34 Re: stacking clothing
Kivo for some reason I think that would cause a lot of lag on the server, but I'm not sure.
#35600001476 05/30/2006 17:26:52 Re: stacking clothing

well if you have the system refresh your style every few seconds, that would cause considerable lag i would think. and im not sure if they clarified this norepro, but technically there is NO "stacking". i just learned of this fairly recently, but what they are saying here, is that "x" person uses "A" set of clothes and activates this buff. then "x" person uses "B" set of clothes and activates another buff. its not like u can use 3 sets of clothes on one buff. wouldnt it make sense that you should have a set of clothes that you would want to use for each of your buffs? i mean if you want to be the best at something, wouldnt you have a bunch of different sets anyways to counter different loads?


now i know abilties can be used as well. that is definitely not right. but that seems easier to fix. because the styles wouldnt have to be constantly updated,  just whenever u change abilities.

#35600001477 05/30/2006 17:27:28 Re: stacking clothing





KivoOnline wrote:

blah blah blah.... although I'm not sure how feasible it is... blah blah blah




I had a little disclaimer in there. SMILEY
#35600001478 05/30/2006 17:32:34 Re: stacking clothing






KivoOnline wrote:






KivoOnline wrote:

blah blah blah.... although I'm not sure how feasible it is... blah blah blah




I had a little disclaimer in there. SMILEY





hehe, and to give an example of what im talking about in my post above, lets say you want to counter against a bunch oh i dont know hackers in PVP. lets say you are a duelist. so you put on a set of clothes which give you some viral defense, then you activate hyper deflect, this makes total sense to me. then you got to your load you would normall use for duelist and activate duel handguns and your duelist upgrade.


this would be fair because your opponents could do it too. you are activating a BUFF, you should be able to pick which clothing you want for that buff, right?

Message Edited by Spartan1818 on 05.30.2006 09:33 PM

#35600001480 05/30/2006 17:48:33 Re: stacking clothing
I agree with Spartan about this issue. Using clothing to obtain a better buff seems fair to me because we had to farm that clothing to be able to use it. What I feel is unfair is people loading abilities to achieve extremely high defenses. With clothing the difference is merely a few points unlike the difference in abilities which would be almost 20 points if loaded correctly.
#35600001481 05/30/2006 17:52:38 Re: stacking clothing
Yeh guys if you test this out, you will find its only a few points (3-4 tops). If you lost everytime to someone who was doing this with their clothes, then they are just better than you, its not the clothes. Now if they were loading these crazy mod loads before activating their buffs, then thats a different story. ability stacking = NO. but having different sets of clothes for your buffs = I think should be YES.
#35600001498 05/31/2006 14:00 Re: stacking clothing
Yes LoTekGhost as sometimes happens policy changes.




LoTekGhost wrote:






NoRepro wrote:

That was the response I was given when I queried the devs about the issue at the time. This is the offical position for this bug in regards to clothing or passive abilities.


At this time exploiting the fact that Buffs do not dynamically update is considered a bug. As such, using said bug for gain either in PvE or PvP is considered exploiting. And if caught doing so is subject to the penalities deamed appropriate by CS.




So this official response is no longer correct?



NoRepro wrote: The stacking of passive abilities to make a buff stronger then unloading those abilities then loading your normal load out but your buff not decreasing "on the fly" is at this time By Design.


Just want to clarify.  If I'm interpreting it correctly also, it may be a good idea to make an official announcement regarding it's use, as such, an exploit.





#36300114676 12/07/2006 18:38 Re:stacking clothing
WOW!!! This thread is from May? Its mid December now and no fix.

Looks like it cant be fixed obviously as the system isnt designed to refresh itself as need be.

This is a REAL issue, and is just out of control. Your dead wrong if you think that this only gives you an advantage of 4 points. This explains so many uncanny things I have noticed for months on end as I have only recently discovered this myself while trying to figure out why my accuracy has constantly been floating around since the beginning of cr2.


What I dont understand is why does Resistance refresh automatically yet other things dont? I guess resistance is on some whole different type of table or something?


Seriously......... Can you PLEASE give us all the go-ahead to take advantage of this cause people are persisting to use this more and more and no one has gotten into any kind of trouble over this so why should some people be allowed to have this unfair advantage while the rest of us respectable players are not?

Can you please just say that this is intended design so we can all stop worrying about this issue and have the same advantage as the many players now useing it to theirs and claiming to be the pwn with it?


Seriously can we get the green light to use this as others are. Sure it doesnt make you invincible but on a one on one level it is quite noticeable.

How can this be enforced anyway who's to say you were conscious of switching outfits to your advantage anyway, as I often find myself wondering why I have a few extra points somehow but once you understand why this doesnt refresh like resistance its easy to end up with +15 on specific stats?


Please I cant state this enough, if it cant be "fixed" can this please be considered "intended design"?




P.S. I just noticed how many times this thread has been viewed yet so little posts, no wonder this is outta hand.


Please just make "intended design"





#36300114693 12/07/2006 19:13 Re:stacking clothing
Bayamo wrote:
Resistance is not an x% influence, that's why it updates when your pts fluctuate.

Sure, some players do use this, but a few points don't make much of a difference usually. And besides, there are ways to force opponents to refresh their style and lose the extra points if you think they're using it.


Personally I can get 13 points and Im positive I can get more if I want as this was purely accidental and Im sure I could think it out to get quite a few more.

I can demonstrate what 13 points will do for my accuracy. Actually Id really like to test. I bet I can roll a hell of alot better in IL with a extra 13pts as well as way less deflections outside of IL. Doesnt accuracy effect your CT as well? Im not a MA so Im not sure but Im sure it would make a huge difference in 1 vs 1 using a pure MA build.

In fact some of the only builds I dont see benefiting from this are Gunmen and MA/patcher builds (MA patcher build already some cheesy ish Im sure they could still get the regen just cant spam the heals)

MKT they dont need to switch style for anything unless they wanna free fire

Same with Hackers

MAs sure like to switch up but I bet with the extra accuracy or defense a pure MA useing this stack is superior to most Hybrids.

Gunmens probably the only that REALLY cant take advantage of that but even then Im sure there some that can, what about snipers?



#36300114970 12/08/2006 05:35 Re:stacking clothing
Im not talking about CT as Im hacking but I am talking about my accuracy.

I was indeed able to add 15pts on to my viral accuracy which is a huge boost considering the main buffs add like 7pts VA.

So I was able to more than double that number which should be huge as thats like an extra buff of over double what a normal Hacker buff would be not to mention I still have that so Im left with an extra 15pts.

This can be done with other los Im just stated for hacks now so thats what I tested.

15 extra pts to Viral Accuracy no big deal?   I beg to F ing differ

I imagine the same can be done with MA, 15 extra points of Melee Accuracy no big deal in a 1 vs 1??

Truthfully Im seeing all kinds of evil things I could do but ill leave it at that.


Im sick and tired of people trying to justify cheats/sploits in this game.

Obviously it cant be fixed Id just like permission to use it myself at this point.


In the zerg it might not make a huge difference but on 1 vs 1 situations it TOTALLY does.
#36300115090 12/08/2006 08:27 Re:stacking clothing
cryshal wrote:
this was discussed a long time back. most ppl said bah who cares whats that extra 7 points gonna do for ya. in cr2, a few points here and there makes NO difference per the greater randomness of this combat system. now maras gonna be full of jackasses running around crying spl0it!#$ all day. wonderful. everyone put yer boots on, theres gonna be lots of arguing and bs'ing about sploits for the next month. someone pls tell the OP to log off and shoot himself in the face with a large caliber handgun.

I wouldnt really blame the OP at all for this, after all this thread was created over 6monthes ago. Although I never realized it as I dont generally read this section of the forums I now feel like a huge idiot for not realizing this much sooner on my own. Truth be told this "bug" has most likely plagued CR2 since its conception yet it took people time to figure out what was going on if they were checking their stat tab. It was inevitable in fact that this was going to become a huge issue eventually.

For a long time I had contemplated building defense suits to macro in 1 vs 1 IL situations. Only reason I didnt was due to lack of room in my inventory. Glad I never bothered to take the time as even if I had the bonuses wouldnt have made a bit of difference as I would need to refresh through HL to obtain them since they apparently do not work the same as resistances.

This falls in to the category of a bug that cannot be enforced of abusing such as "forced spam". This is not like when people were pushing their stats to 60 as that could be checked and was definite abuse.

Truth is just as forced spam people often could take advantage of this "bug" as it is hard to impossible to enforce as it can be done on accident, yet others take definite advantage of the fact with NO repercussions. Who's to say some did it on accident and some do it intentionally?

The ONLY solution I see at this time is to say that this 'bug" was "intended design". Many honorable players are NOT going to take advantage of the fact especially since 9mmfu stated that for the time being which was 6 months ago it was taking advantadge of a "bug" and indeed considered an exploit. Unfortunately many lame people wishing to get a slight edge have and will continue to do so.


Im a realist and from what I see the system isnt designed to refresh itself. Im no coder but most likely due to the original design of CR1. We are way past the point to bring CR1 back due to all the things that have been added since then. Im a realist CR1 aint coming back unfortunately, so since this issue cannot be fixed can they make this "intended design"? That way noone can scream sploits and if you didnt take the time to stack some of your accuracy,defense or damage that is just your problem. Truthfully it would add a little more depth to the combat system as you can pick more buffs to enhance yourself with. On the downside it will also lead to more imbalance as the possibilities are explored. Fix it, approve of it, whatever something needs to be done. Truth is CR2 is broke.

Im not waiting 6 months for a "fix" if its even possible, while others run around taking advantage of the system with NO repercussions even though we have been told NOT TO over 6monthes ago.

The solution is simple, truthfully Id rather see new content and other things worked on then them having to waste their time trying to fix this if it even can be done in this system.


"Intended Design" just go with it or give us CR3 if thats possible, I dont see that happening either though at this point. But something need to be confirmed here.


#36300115532 12/08/2006 17:26 Re:stacking clothing
Renesis13B wrote:
I can confirm this was known during Beta CR 2.0 and the devs confirmed it was by design.  It was real easy to do with macros and only took 1 mouse click and a few secs to execute.  I think the reason more people didnt take advantage of it was because they didnt understand (and still dont) how bonuses were applied.  Anyways its fixed now and having bonuses dynamically update is a good thing.


I dont know what your looking at but this IS NOT FIXED.


Dynamic updating? I been sittin here 20 min and my accuracy still +15 in a full resistance suit. My character been writin to database several times in that time as well.

Ill try damage next but ACC is definitely an issue.  Try it yourself cause wishful thinking is nice but ITS NOT FIXED
#36300292268 07/26/2007 21:03 stacking clothing
Combat is a fairly large part of this game, and to know that the whole combat system(particularly pvp) is affected by this stacking situation should make fixing it a fairly high priority.....come on, we already know this.

There is no way that the people that do this are going to stop doing it until it is forced on them.



ATTN: THE GAME IS BROKEN AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED.
#36300292469 07/27/2007 07:32 Re:stacking clothing
898989 wrote:
Just live with it ....


yep, i will.

by cancelling my sub, and finding a game that ISN'T broken.

*pines for the old combat system*


thanks for trying.
#36300292539 07/27/2007 10:19 Re:stacking clothing
Would it be a possibility to have refresh zones based on the area you're in that corresponds to a certain hardline - kind of like Mara to Tabor to Magog changes? Not many people would stack in front of another player before a duel/pvp. They would try to do it somewhere out of sight. Therefore there would be less desire to stack and possibly get caught in the act, hassled for it, etc while trying to pass it off at the hardline you're forced to use to avoid a zone change refresh.
#36300292982 07/28/2007 09:55 Re:stacking clothing
Arcanoloth wrote:
Trayen1 wrote:
Would it be a possibility to have refresh zones based on the area you're in that corresponds to a certain hardline - kind of like Mara to Tabor to Magog changes? Not many people would stack in front of another player before a duel/pvp. They would try to do it somewhere out of sight. Therefore there would be less desire to stack and possibly get caught in the act, hassled for it, etc while trying to pass it off at the hardline you're forced to use to avoid a zone change refresh.


But it's funny as hell to watch someone put on an Area K, Red/Purple Hosh chaps and the green shirt, then change to a full accuracy outfit moments before flagging up.


Jeez, everybody saw Mikefool stacking all kinds of things in front of their eyes, and when Nephilim tried to CCR him what happened? He got laughed at and a week later, banned because of accusation which have nothing to do with this thread here...
#36300293233 07/28/2007 20:30 Re:stacking clothing
That was actually a mixture of clothing stacking and title buff stacking.

(Nephillim btw. 2 L's. )
#36300293330 07/29/2007 02:23 Re:stacking clothing
Arcanoloth wrote:
Fatmop wrote:
Arcanoloth wrote:
GoDGiVeR wrote:
Arcanoloth wrote:
Trayen1 wrote:
Would it be a possibility to have refresh zones based on the area you're in that corresponds to a certain hardline - kind of like Mara to Tabor to Magog changes? Not many people would stack in front of another player before a duel/pvp. They would try to do it somewhere out of sight. Therefore there would be less desire to stack and possibly get caught in the act, hassled for it, etc while trying to pass it off at the hardline you're forced to use to avoid a zone change refresh.

But it's funny as hell to watch someone put on an Area K, Red/Purple Hosh chaps and the green shirt, then change to a full accuracy outfit moments before flagging up.

Jeez, everybody saw Mikefool stacking all kinds of things in front of their eyes, and when Nephilim tried to CCR him what happened? He got laughed at and a week later, banned because of accusation which have nothing to do with this thread here...

What are you talking about? MikeCool never stacked, he was just superior to every other player with every tree and won every time from personal skill alone. And his 3.6k hp Aikido GM loadouts, they were just really good hybrids, I just haven't figured out what they were yet... SMILEY

Just a disclaimer, that was pure sarcasm, in case someone thinks I was being serious.
Aikido GM + Kung Fu GM + Karate GM (all 3 title buffs btw) + Doctor up to Upgrade Health.  Duh.
Ooooooh, it seems so simple now, gosh I'm an idiot.

You forgot Kungfu Master, Karate Master, Aikido Master, Martial Arts Initiate, Soldier and Operative title. He had them all on at the same time.
#36300321753 09/12/2007 22:29 Re:stacking clothing
so, errr, is this the end of this discussion about clothing stacks?  people know it isn't by design, but it's something that can be done without fear of punishment?



*check check*
*is this thing on?*
#36300323072 09/14/2007 20:28 Re:stacking clothing
Sphairo87 wrote:
Roukan wrote:
9mmfu wrote:

Stacking clothing is a bug and as such an exploit. If caught expected to have action taken against you by the csr team.

Next.

Wouldn't the next step be to.......... fix it?
...exactly like that of the switching tactics exploit...
How is that an exploit?
#36300323304 09/15/2007 10:14 stacking clothing
cloudwolf wrote:
Because its not an intended use of the system and gives an unfair advantage to one who knows how to use it against one who doesn't.

Oh, ok. Thanks
#36300323808 09/16/2007 14:07 Re:stacking clothing
Yasamuu1 wrote:
TeeHee wrote:
Sphairo87 wrote:
Roukan wrote:
9mmfu wrote:

Stacking clothing is a bug and as such an exploit. If caught expected to have action taken against you by the csr team.

Next.

Wouldn't the next step be to.......... fix it?

The problem is though like GG said, because so many people use it it's become univerally accepted, exactly like that of the switching tactics exploit. Everyone knows that most if not all people use it whenever possible? You'll be suspending *alot* of people... :s

Stacking is not something that is univerally accepted! Nearly every person i know dislikes stackers, reports stackers, and if it was universally accepted, why would someone be banned for stacking?


Just because some people do it, doesnt mean it should be copied. Don't stack, report the stackers, and the problem will eventually dwindle itself out.

Exactly. People have been banned/suspended for stacking recently. Just report them. The sooner we drum out the exploiters, the better PvP will become.

Or everyone else could just go MKT to make stacking not worth the trouble. =D
#36300323898 09/16/2007 16:17 stacking clothing
Ballak wrote:
AFGM1 wrote:
cloudwolf wrote:
Because its not an intended use of the system and gives an unfair advantage to one who knows how to use it against one who doesn't.

Oh, ok. Thanks

Meh, I use it. I don't know who doesn't use it. Almost everyone learns how to use it before 50 where it really counts in the first place, and to be honest if they really wanted to fix it (like in your thread that you posted) they'd have the damage count before the move even went through, preventing the player from having time to switch tactics when the moved has rolled high enough, clicking into place.

Has the switching combat tactics ever been officially announced as an exploit?

I hope not. I'll admit, I do this, but that's how I was taught when I was a new player (pre-EPN).
#36300324397 09/17/2007 13:25 stacking clothing
The Leo wrote:
l0ri wrote:
The Leo wrote:
9mmfu wrote:
GoDGiVeR wrote:

AFGM1 wrote:

Tactic switching is a known issue for the devs since start of cr2. The reason they can't fix it, because it would go into a cr3, a complete overhaul of the combat system.

Although it's been officially announced as an issue, it is not, however, announced as an exploit. Stacking clothing, though, is an exploit for the devs.

It some times amazes me that simply because a dev doesn't put their stamp of disapproval on something before a player will go hrmm "that doesn't seem right perhaps I shouldn't do it"...

Anyways switching tactics in the same round to gain the benefit of both in the given round is indeed a bug and an exploit.

So you have been warned.

Just to throw in my $info... as far as I remember in CR1 no matter what tactic you used an ability would do the same damage. Can't it be made so Abilities do a kind of base damage of the style used... like let's say an universal tactic that all abilities use but that you can't manually use? An idea.

I think you're right (can't remember for sure, it's been a while) about the special doing about or near the same dmg regardless of tactic.  Your rolls were the same too.  Regular attacks would do different dmg though. 
Yeah normal would of course but now abs are important. I also have a bit of info how the states problem can be fixed. You know how when using misdirect punch, or sky high (or someone else on you) the downgrade starts before the damage and the animtion or in worst cases simultaneously. Can't this be done with normal tactics so they work in the same way? Maybe even make them blinking like abilities, and every ability for itself (with a base damage unexploitable)?

Anyway this is way off topic so I wud suggest a lock since we got our answer to this one. Any1 wanna start the thread about ideas to fix the above mentioned problems??
Um, that's not what I said in the quote. Might wanna learn2 properly. SMILEY

AFGM1 wrote:
Ballak wrote:
AFGM1 wrote:
cloudwolf wrote:
Because its not an intended use of the system and gives an unfair advantage to one who knows how to use it against one who doesn't.

Oh, ok. Thanks

Meh, I use it. I don't know who doesn't use it. Almost everyone learns how to use it before 50 where it really counts in the first place, and to be honest if they really wanted to fix it (like in your thread that you posted) they'd have the damage count before the move even went through, preventing the player from having time to switch tactics when the moved has rolled high enough, clicking into place.

Has the switching combat tactics ever been officially announced as an exploit?

I hope not. I'll admit, I do this, but that's how I was taught when I was a new player (pre-EPN)


#36300324483 09/17/2007 16:14 Re:stacking clothing
Back on the topic of clothing stacking/exploits:

I would like a straight yes or no answer on if this specific scenario would be an exploit:

I load as a KungFu/Karate/Awakened mix.  I change all my clothing to the best I have for Damage Resistances.  I apply all the "sticky" abilities/items I can (abilities and items which cause a symbol to appear under the hotbars without a timer or with a very long timer) including Hyper-Dodge, finishing with the Kung Fu Master Upgrade.   I flag up for PvP.  There is an attack and we are in interlock and I use "specials" until my IS runs out.  OK, so now I put on my Sakura Ninja Bandanna and Dragonskin Wrap in hopes that the increased IS Regen will build up so I can use another "special."  My opponent has switched from shooting to melee attacks, so I hit Hyper-Block.

Did I just stack/exploit?

#36300324722 09/18/2007 00:15 Re:stacking clothing
Finally the light comes on, thank you Bayamo.  What I understood from your post is this: the only Influences from clothing that can become stacked are those which match the Attributes of an Upgrade ability, and they stack at the time the upgrade is applied.  Now that I know this, I can avoid it, and it means that changing clothing during combat isn't stacking so long as no clothing which Influenced the Attributes of the Upgrade was being worn at the time the Upgrade was applied.  Hope we don't see this as a fix: "You must remove all your clothing before applying that Upgrade!"