Certain abilities having no effect?

#35300002992 06/15/2006 18:31:24 Certain abilities having no effect?

Without any abilities loaded (besides Awakened of course) I have 2150 HP and 220 IS. Anyway, I was messing around with different loadouts tonight when I noticed a few things.

Execute Program (to the level I have it) is supposed to give a Max IS bonus of 3%, yet when it's equipped my IS stays at 220. It's also supposed to give an increase of 3% to my IS regen rate, yet that stays at 3.63p/s

Aikido Prowess is supposed to give a Max HP upgrade of 12% and yet my HP also stays at 2150.

Are passive buffs having no effect?

I've also noticed discrepancies in the Bonuses panel. Some screenshots;

At the top of the list we can see I'm getting a 10% IS Regen boost from wearing the Caution boots. It's also giving me a movement speed boost, but we'll come to that later.

When I scrolled down towards the bottom, to my confusion, I found another category; Innerstrength Regen Rate Bonus. This contains the Execute Program buff and Vitality buff.

Now here's the first thing: This is the Bonuses panel. Anything listed here is construed as a bonus, so why the need for a second category when they're both percentages?

The second thing: While I had the Combat panel open, I equipped and dequipped Execute Program, and found that my IS rate didn't change from 3.63, but when I dequipped my Caution boots, it decreased to 3.3!

The third thing: The second IS regen category contains the apparent 10% buff from Vitality. Yet if I dequip Execute Program, this category disappears altogether. So is Vitality not getting used if there isn't another buff running with the same upgrades?

Nearly everything seems to have two categories. Force Combat for example, being raised by 20% thanks to Compel Close Combat.

Yet further down the list, we have Force Combat Bonus, containing Combat Insight. These are both percentages affecting the same thing, so why aren't they under the one category? As I said above, I'm getting a movement speed bonus with Caution, and both that and Hyper Speed are under the one category.

I have a sneaking suspicion that some passive buffs aren't actually working. I disabled Kung Fu Proficiency and my damage stayed within the same threshold, give or take 20 points, and I hit the NPCs just as often.

And call me a pedant but it's sloppy for IS to be called Inner Strength at the top and Innerstrength at the bottom. Actually maybe that's the problem! In my extremely limited programming skills, heh. Perhaps you have one object named Inner Strength and one named Innerstrength, and only have one of them being added to? I dunno.

Has this been brought up or addressed before? I searched the forums and didn't find anything, but any answers would be appreciated SMILEY

#35300003025 06/16/2006 00:46:47 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

I now have a headache:smileyindifferent:

#35300003028 06/16/2006 01:28:23 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

Wish I knew mate

InnerStrength Regen - XX%
InnerStrength Regen Bonus XX%

seems odd unless one is desinged to stack on the other???

I would presume IS Regen Bonus to stack on to IS regen...

And we'll probably get told that its because buffs don't Dynamically up date or summat...

*shakes head* no idea:smileysad:

#35300003113 06/18/2006 12:55:01 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

Left the abilities on and off for an hour each way, and nothing changed so I'm guessing dynamic buffing isn't in effect.

If it was a piece of buffed clothes or something I wouldn't care less, but these are abilities that cost a lot of hard earned $info to level up. Everyone's going around trying out different hybrids, but because of the messed up Bonuses panel and the fact that none of the abilities' buffs may even be being applied renders using more than one tree pointless.

I'd appreciate feedback from anyone (players and devs alike) who knows why buffs aren't being applied or why the Bonuses panel has 2 categories for things that only need one.

#35300003128 06/18/2006 19:51:53 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

It is supposed to be this way, although we are hoping to see this changed soon. The buff say IS regen/max IS BONUS. A bonus means that it applies to an ability that is used. So you would only see that bonus come into play, if you casted an ability giving you either IS regen or max IS. Since no abiliites currently give either of those things, at the current that bonus is completely 100% worthless!

#35300003129 06/18/2006 20:19:29 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

BakuraRyou wrote:

I'd appreciate feedback from anyone (players and devs alike) who knows why buffs aren't being applied or why the Bonuses panel has 2 categories for things that only need one.

They aren't the same thing.

the % bonuses under the bonus tab only activate when you use an ability...for example your melee accuracy bonuses % will only show up when you use a melee ability, which you will never see because they don't show combat rolls.

Your melee accuracy + bonus will show up as your CT, though, under the combat tab.

Basically, all the bonuses with %'s give you that certain % of your + bonuses when you use an ability that pertains to those bonuses.

Confusing...might wanna read that a few times.

#35300003149 06/20/2006 11:17:33 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

I believe the confusion you are seeing is based on the difference between an Influlence and an Attribute.

Force Combat is an Attribute

Force Combat Bonus is and Influence

Influences modify it's associated Attribute.

So for example the "Base" value on Compel Close Combat ability is 20%. Lets say you have a 10% Force Combat Bonus, this would make your Compet Clos Combat ability provide 22% instead when activated.

In the status panel bonuses tab all Attributes show there modified values "Not" their base values before influences.

This is the same for every Attribute / Influence relationship in the game.

I hope this has clarified the issue for you.

#35300003150 06/20/2006 11:24:10 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

Repro, any word on the changes on how the max IS, and IS regen bonuses are going to be "made better". I know you all never said exactly what you were going to change, so you have any update?

#35300003153 06/20/2006 14:23:24 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

NoRepro I think the most important part of the question you left unanswered, why is his max health and or IS not changing when he loads an ability that is supposed to increase one or the other?

#35300003177 06/21/2006 13:58:59 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

There's no base for the influence to modify.

The Patch v. 1.2 | The Guide

#35300003195 06/21/2006 19:11:51 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

Max health is modified when using an ability that increases your max health, such as bolster health down the upgrade tree, same thing with IS although i dont know for sure if there is an ability that increases max IS,

However i do know there is no ablilty that increases your IS regen, although there is one that increases your health regen(fast healing also down upgrade tree) so in essence with this new system some bonuses are useless and others are downright odd, (sweep bonus?) yeah, still some things we need to get adjusted to, but i do agree about them not showing the combat tactics rolls, like they used to, i guess people coundnt get used to the 2 sets of rolls instead of just one. other than that though once you figure out what influences your true abilites you can play well.

#35300003196 06/21/2006 21:27:32 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

has anyone noticed that this is all just smoke and mirrors? is norepro drinking on the job?

compel CC base stat is 20%. k, great. 20% of what? and if something else provides a 10% bonus, what in the hell is the point of that? in cr2, 2% is not gonna be noticeable cuz the base roll can be so much higher than before, whereas in cr1 our actual rolls werent very high and our bonus made up most of what the number turned out to be.

this nonsense needs a THOROUGH review, WITH A CALCULATOR. ive been saying this for months.

these guys changed all kinds of stuff around but didnt work out the math to see what it DOES now.

as you can see.. lots of it is doing nothing =D 'is regen bonus' my **bleep**. im guessing this is the reason some loadouts are more 'punked' than others, such as MKT which runs out of IS if you just stare at your opponent with a mean look on your face.

#35300003359 06/29/2006 09:05:22 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

In fact I only used Compel Close combat as an example to display the relationship between an Influence and an Attribute. It was not intended to give out the inner working of how the Force Combat works. I suppose I could have used a more easily identifiable Attribute/Influence combination like Melee Damage Resistance to address the OPs concerns.

The fact however is there is only a single ability that increases the IS regen Attribute. Its in the Coder Tree and is a buff for a Sim, which I admit doesn't do a paticular player much good. The bonuses being discussed from Vitality are there for future use simply put.

Message Edited by NoRepro on 06.29.2006 10:05 AM

#35300003380 07/01/2006 16:04:37 Re: Certain abilities having no effect?

cryshal wrote:

these guys changed all kinds of stuff around but didnt work out the math to see what it DOES now.

Oh, I disagree.

They did work out the math, but ain't sharing much with us. It bugs me how complicated they made everything with virtually no explanation of how a bunch of it actually WORKS (initiative for example).

All I get from anyone is that initiative means specials are more likely to hit. No explanation of how it interacts with melee accuracy, my opponents melee defense, whether a bonus to a 0 initiative base (you have none till you hit desperation it seems) has any effect. Oh, and if we both try specials are we rolling against the others attack or their defense? If it is defense we could both hit, so is it who hits by the most? This is just a single example, there a plenty of others that have only a vague description of the inner workings. Jeez CR1 was simple.