Upgrade Attacks Overpowered - MXO Forum Archive

#35300000889 03/22/2006 16:28:29 Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

I have the serious impression that the Selective Phage ability Upgrade Attacks is seriously overpowered.

Can you name me one other accuracy boosting ability which re-use timer is shorter than its duration? I mean, you can use Upgrade Attacks ad infinitum, boosting your viral accuracy for +65 accuracy points plus influence bonuses resulting in +100 accuracy bonus points for 80 seconds and even longer cause you can re-activate it like every 15 seconds.

>revolt_

#35300000891 03/22/2006 16:50:22 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

ooooh good find. I just fixed this - duration is now 20 seconds, reuse timer 90 seconds, just like the Martial Arts and Firearms damage buffs.

#35300000892 03/22/2006 17:07:58 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Ohh My, the hackers keep getting weaker and weaker. I mean they nurfed Vector Infect area 2.0 to 50 dmg. Any lvl 50 will absorb 1/2+ of that and regen the rest even before the next pulse of the infection. Try launching any hacks after using upgrade attacks- maybe 3-4 with a 20 second duration. I mean they just lowered the ability to fight in interlock, it's almost near imposible for anyone to roll out of interlock. So now everyone join the MA club. Everyone will now be MA's/Gunman/Operative.

Rock Paper Scissors

While playing CR 2.0 I was happy when they fixed the reuse timer of upgrade attacks. It was almost impossible to launch any barrage of attacks prior to running out of "Accuracy" boosting power. Also any Hacker must go down the Arb Tree to even load this ability taking more memory away from other useful abilities.

Now it's going to be nurfed again... 20 seconds of hacking. Come On!!

My evade takes two hits as a hacker with blur on. I get interlocked and am going to suck now, and will quickly die.

Well we shall see how much more diversity is added due to these changes.

#35300000893 03/22/2006 17:12:04 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Ah, good to hear. It was one of the reasons why I kicked your butt with my DoT attacks, Frog. =P

>revolt_

#35300000894 03/22/2006 17:46:22 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

lol, us hackers just can't get a break can we?

No matter, i will adapt like i always do.

#35300000895 03/22/2006 18:25:27 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Well, a hacker's Code Nuke 3.0 did 760+ damage to me during PvP today. That's not nerfed, is it?

#35300000896 03/22/2006 18:29:20 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

That might have been me, when I cleared the hardline of Transcendents for like 20 secs. xD

>revolt_

#35300000897 03/22/2006 18:42:41 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Hackers have been overpowered since the beginning of time. I say dont stop at this..keep going..Nerf away!

#35300000899 03/22/2006 19:19:43 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Nicodemusx wrote:
My evade takes two hits as a hacker with blur on. I get interlocked and am going to suck now, and will quickly die.

that's the way it should have been for the last year and it's about time it was fixed.

#35300000900 03/22/2006 19:25:37 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Devs,

MA abilities do lots of damage to me, please nerf them kthnx.

#35300000901 03/22/2006 19:40:19 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Load Consistent Technique and Hyper-Block. And armoured stuff.

>revolt_

#35300000902 03/22/2006 19:41:08 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Whoa, hold on a second Frog. I don't think that is the right solution. Upgrade Attacks is a level 22 ability that costs 35IS and 22Buffer and requires 41 memory to reach. Martial Arts Prowess and Firearms Skill cost 20IS have "NO" buffer cost and are level 4 abilities and each requires only 20 memory to reach.

I think it should last longer than 20 seconds, but maybe raise the reuse timer some instead.

Message Edited by ZaneZavin on 03-22-200607:57 PM

#35300000903 03/22/2006 20:08:01 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

The +65 boost plus influence bonuses (I get +100 accuracy) seems to make up for it, non?

>revolt_

#35300000904 03/22/2006 21:07:51 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

It only adds to your accuracy, both of those other skills add to damage. If it is only gonna last 20 seconds, they must remove the buffer cost and lower the IS cost.

Message Edited by ZaneZavin on 03-22-200609:09 PM

#35300000905 03/22/2006 23:32:17 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

I'm glad it's been changed. No more uber-hacking in interlock, thankfully. It's in line with the other tree's abilities now.

#35300000906 03/23/2006 02:42:57 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

MA abilities do lots of damage to me, please nerf them kthnx.

Hahah! How the worm has turned. Sorry my old hacker friend, I just can't help but laugh.

#35300000908 03/23/2006 04:39:26 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

HCFrog wrote:
ooooh good find. I just fixed this - duration is now 20 seconds, reuse timer 90 seconds, just like the Martial Arts and Firearms damage buffs.

Like ZaneZavin said ... Martial Arts Prowess and Firearms .. (sorry forgot the name) are incommensurable to Upgrade Attacks. Overclock is the Hacker dmg buff and can be compared with them.
Upgrade Attacks adds only Viral Accuracy and it is necessary for a hacker to have a chance to hit the opponent (I have a viral acc close to 200 and even miss against lot of peeps). It is ok to reduce the Viral Accuracy in Interlock, but please don't make the Hacker powerless out of Interlock.
If you want to change it -> 40sec viral acc boost and 60sec re-use timer.

peace,
CJ

#35300000909 03/23/2006 05:08:51 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Agreed 20 seconds is much too short for the is cost

#35300000910 03/23/2006 05:30:51 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Try to fight in a crowded area, with a high latency. I know interlock is a no-no for hackers, but if you're grabbed in, with the new contested rollout and with the low chances to land a viral attack, because the lack of Viral Accuracy, and you find that you're forcing players into be MA for PvP. No variety.
Again we're going from balance to giving a class more strength than the others. Being that there's no other visible way to upgrade Viral Accuracy through the use of abilities, I think the timer is too short. As it was suggested, increase the reuse timer to be higher than duration. Like 60 seconds duration and 120 reuse time.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000911 03/23/2006 09:48:47 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

My highest viral defense ive been able to get as a duelist was like 165. Having 200 viral accuracy and having no way for another class to get 200 viral defense is called overpowered. Its the same thing on live now with viral transmission so easy to get and viral deflection very costly to get.

CrazyJun wrote:

HCFrog wrote:
ooooh good find. I just fixed this - duration is now 20 seconds, reuse timer 90 seconds, just like the Martial Arts and Firearms damage buffs.

Like ZaneZavin said ... Martial Arts Prowess and Firearms .. (sorry forgot the name) are incommensurable to Upgrade Attacks. Overclock is the Hacker dmg buff and can be compared with them.
Upgrade Attacks adds only Viral Accuracy and it is necessary for a hacker to have a chance to hit the opponent (I have a viral acc close to 200 and even miss against lot of peeps). It is ok to reduce the Viral Accuracy in Interlock, but please don't make the Hacker powerless out of Interlock.
If you want to change it -> 40sec viral acc boost and 60sec re-use timer.

peace,
CJ

#35300000912 03/23/2006 10:38:38 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

There is only one other ability like the Upgrade Attacks ability, Steady Aim. although they aren't quite alike and Steadt Aim does more then it says. also, there is no melee accuracy boost in any Ma tree's.

Steady Aim seems to take 30 IS every 8 seconds, but it's not listed in the description panel. And it also seems to have a re-use timer of 24 seconds, but is also not listed. As you can see it doesn't add to nearly as much accuracy as Upgrade attacks.

This leads to the conclusion that Upgrade attacks is only similar to another ability

However, the two are still not completely similar with the shorter timer, longer re-use timer, and addition to Ballistic damage. Lineupshot and Steady aim are stackable to a certain degree as well.

#35300000913 03/23/2006 10:59:21 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Hm. A new Upgrade Attacks with 20 sec duration seems appropriate in comparison to Line Up The Shot. The lesser re-use timer and DPS bonus of Line Up The Shot balances itself with its Concealment requirement I think.

>revolt_

#35300000914 03/23/2006 11:21:42 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

No, it's a short time. As I said, it become useless on interlock because the contested rolls. The downing of DPS of viral damage is good, but the lack of viral accuracy is fatal. Try it by yourself. MA is overpowered now against a Hacker. I want balance, not nerfing in any form.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000916 03/23/2006 13:09:54 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

MA cant do much outside of interlock and Hackers arent an interlock class so I dont see the problem. You cant have the best of both.

#35300000917 03/23/2006 13:28:33 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Renesis13B wrote:
MA cant do much outside of interlock and Hackers arent an interlock class so I dont see the problem. You cant have the best of both.

I agree. A class must not excel both at Interlock and Free Fire. However, Hacker is being adjusted at both ends.
The problem with reducing the time of Upgrade Attacks is that it's affecting not only IL. Have you tried it as a Hacker at the EP server? I do and I like the change overall, but landing a viral accuracy can't be boosted in any other way that I aware off.
If there's a way to penalize Viral Accuracy at Interlock, without reducing the times, in order to balance the class for interlock, I'm all for it. Otherwise, the changes are going for nerfing instead of the balance that you talk about.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000918 03/23/2006 13:47:44 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

The way I see it is similar to what Renesis said.

MA's (and to some extent duellists) are the kings of interlock. If you're a hacker and I'm an MA, my job is to hunt you down, pull you into interlock, and beat the living daylights out of you. Your job is to stay out of interlock and blast the crap out of me before I get you into my zone of destruction, or blast the crap out of me while your MA friend keeps me in interlock. That jerk.

Those are pretty broad strokes and of course people are always experimenting with hybrid loadouts, which is one of the things that I think is really cool about MxO's combat. Also, Hackers should probably be a little better off in interlock under CR2 than they were in the old system, since there are no longer any "I'll never hit you and you'll always hit me" situations. Add to that the non-zero sum rounds and the more profound effect that tactics now have (like going into grab mode if you want to boost your defense while still being able to attack and use special moves) and a smart hacker shouldn't be instantly pwned in interlock.

But hackers are definitely not intended to be balanced with MA in interlock.

#35300000919 03/23/2006 13:49:11 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

oops I missed that last post Tekmon. Anyhow Upgrade Attacks was never supposed to be something you ran constantly. That was an error transferring data from our abilities spreadsheet to the actual game abilities.

#35300000921 03/23/2006 14:00:32 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

HCFogs post made the points I was trying to make but hes a LOT better with words than I am.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-23-200605:10 PM

#35300000922 03/23/2006 14:09:26 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

HCFrog wrote:
oops I missed that last post Tekmon. Anyhow Upgrade Attacks was never supposed to be something you ran constantly. That was an error transferring data from our abilities spreadsheet to the actual game abilities.

I agree, that it should not be possible to use Upgrade Attacks constantly, but running around 70 secs without the viral accuracy bonus is the death of every hacker in PVP (and PVE against same lvl mobs).
I tested my hacker load against a SMG Spec without using my Upgrade Attacks and I hit him maybe 1 or 2 times before he break my shield and killed me (and my viral accuracy is good). Compared to the gunman, the hacker is only effectiv using the specials. The gunman is effectiv with free fire AND specials, the MA with punches AND specials, the hacker with specials (low accuracy, no chance to hit with specials, no dmg, no balance) The difference between using time and re-use time should be 20 or maybe 30 secs, but NOT 70 secs!!!

peace,
CJ

#35300000923 03/23/2006 14:16:01 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Why not just use a hybrid build? Load some Viral hacks and patcher. If you get stuck in interlock you can heal yourself until you can roll out. Possibilities are there if you take the time to find them. If you stick with only 1 type of combat your not going to do very well.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-23-200605:16 PM

#35300000924 03/23/2006 14:16:39 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Noted Frog. I see that the change has landed at the EP. I don't want hacker to be the king of the hill and I understand that there's no balance per se on IL. There must be a class differentiation that make one slightly better than other at certain situations. I can live with that.
Nevertheless, Viral Accuracy is needed for free fire (or ranged attacks if you like). Reducing the times of Upgrade attacks leave hacker hanging on the line.
Why don't you increase the duration to 30 seconds, leaving the reuse timer at 90 seconds, as it is?
A 3 to 1 ratio gives the chance of not exploiting it and gives a small edge to try 3 viral attacks with better chance to hit. PvP is all about latency...

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000925 03/23/2006 14:20:38 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Renesis13B wrote:
Why not just use a hybrid build? Load some Viral hacks and patcher. If you get stuck in interlock you can heal yourself until you can roll out. Possibilities are there if you take the time to find them. If you stick with only 1 type of combat your not going to do very well.

One phrase: Inner Strenght Consumption. Healing abilities consume a lot of IS. Believe me, the only way to do what you propose is pulling a Neo... If you can win the rollout contest.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000926 03/23/2006 14:27:51 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Thanks for the laugh. I really had a good one when I saw my new forum title. I'm guessing it was because of my posts in this thread. Did I get Frog'd or who got me?

#35300000928 03/23/2006 14:47:48 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Renesis13B wrote:
Why not just use a hybrid build? Load some Viral hacks and patcher. If you get stuck in interlock you can heal yourself until you can roll out. Possibilities are there if you take the time to find them. If you stick with only 1 type of combat your not going to do very well.

Another thing is, that you CAN'T heal yourself when you try to Withdraw. Everything your RSI does is blocking and rolling a contested withdraw roll every round. It's impossible to heal.

Frog, is there any chance that withdraw could get more ganker victim friendly? Meaning that if you have to fight against multiple enemies and you get caught in Interlock that you can have atleast a greater chance to withdraw than hoping that your withdraw will be successful in a short 2 secs window? Allow us to heal ourselves (pills) or let us use passive abilities. Any chance of something like that being incorporated?

>revolt_

Message Edited by >revolt_ on 03-23-200602:48 PM

#35300000929 03/23/2006 15:05:12 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Here's the thing:

On average a level 50 Hacker can drop roughly 200-300 pts. of damage every 4 sec. or one IL roll (and this i doubt as I've seen hackers land three hits in 8 seconds). In 20 seconds a hacker can, on average, do 5000 pts. of damage if all hits lands. That's 2-2.5 deaths in some cases. And that's all damage attacks, not including stretching it out with stun/roots or decreasing resistence which increases how much damage is done with viral attacks. So on average, if a Support class like hacker were able to stay out of IL and 50% of their attacks went through in 20 seconds a hacker could do 2,500 dmg..

On average a level 50 MA can do roughly 100-200 pts. of dmg. thus taking them much longer to actually kill anything and that's in IL not including any specials. Most MA's can get 3 maybe 4 specials off that equally could kill an opponent, but only two of those specials can be done out of IL.

Mind you, all specials create a Zero-Sum situation. And we all know that Zero-sum forces one ability to "out-roll" another, leaving almost all hacker abilites to create a Zer-Sum situation, all of the time and MA's to only cause that situation part of the time.

I think 20 seconds is long enough, but if not, we have a week to test and see if upgrade attacks could use another 10 seconds. But again, MA's do NOT have anyway to buff their accuracy like Gunmen or Hackers.

#35300000930 03/23/2006 15:22:50 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

AvatRAMa,
Please, check your numbers. Let's take for granted that a Hacker can do 300 damage per viral attack (the maximum damage you posted). In 20 seconds, we have 5 IL rounds. So 300 * 5 is equal to 1,500 points of damage. Even if the 3 hits per 8 second is used, it's roughly 2,250 points of damage, not 5,000.
Now, I've experienced that in the best of the cases, attacks land like 66%, giving you with 1,350 points of effective damage. Hardly a killer on equal levels and you still have to worry of your IS usage to try to withdraw.
Anyhow, the effect of reducing Upgrade Attacks is affecting Free Fire attacks. OK, I accept that I'm a supporting class. I try to avoid IL and use the distance. Why I must be penalized for an IL consideration?

#35300000931 03/23/2006 15:43:27 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

The Frog wrote:

On average a level 50 MA can do roughly 100-200 pts. of dmg. thus taking them much longer to actually kill anything and that's in IL not including any specials.

Alright, then how bout giving us more evade shield defense or lowering the force combat on grab tatics cause as it stands know 2 attempts on your sheild and it falls over. Then its IL and contested withdrawls then death. Block tatics gives us a heap of evade combat but you can't do anything while using it so unless you like standing there watching people bounce off you its pretty much useless.

Avat wrote:

On average a level 50 MA can do roughly 100-200 pts. of dmg. thus taking them much longer to actually kill anything and that's in IL not including any specials.

Sorry mate but i don't think thats right, I seem to get hit for at least 300-500 when fighting MA's so the damage output is almost nearly on par with a hacker. But this may be because of defenses, hve to test it without any defense i guess.

Hackers unite! Stop the tyranny!

Message Edited by AItais on 03-23-200603:44 PM

#35300000932 03/23/2006 15:54:13 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Ive been fighting hackers on ep since this patch and im still getting destroyed in interlock. MA's I can handle but hackers still outroll me in interlock as a duelist with 30 focus.

For those saying you cant heal in interlock is bs. Ive done it just fine and IF YOU WANT TO WIN ROLLOUTS USE SIDE ROLL ESCAPE. Its in caps so people will see it. I have a 100% success rate with it rolling out. Wake up people and look at other abilities but hacker.

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-23-200607:03 PM

#35300000933 03/23/2006 16:15:04 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Renesis13B wrote:
Ive been fighting hackers on ep since this patch and im still getting destroyed in interlock.Ã Â MA's I can handle but hackers still outroll me in interlock as a duelist with 30 focus.

For those saying you cant heal in interlock is bs. Ive done it just fine and IF YOU WANT TO WIN ROLLOUTS USE SIDE ROLL ESCAPE.Its in caps so people will see it. I have a 100% success rate with it rolling out. Wake up people and look at other abilities but hacker.

More use of hybrids classes. I know there might be more combinations to achieve a certain result, like winning the contested rolls using the ability you said.
However, it's like the current cry on live about the need to load certain abilties to boost your Viral Deflection. There's a switching of unbalance from one class to another.
My current point is not the effectiveness of hacker on IL, but the downgrading of the class at ranged distance too. Ok, take us the overpower at IL, but don't do the same at distance.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000934 03/23/2006 16:25:52 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

From what ive seen on EP so far hackers still have no problem getting hits in. Im also popping ab's like crazy with those dot abilities like Code Infection. Accuracy isnt that important if you can land attacks than do a ton of damage every 5 seconds.

#35300000935 03/23/2006 16:41:23 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Renesis13B wrote:
For those saying you cant heal in interlock is bs.

You CAN heal in interlock. But you CAN'T heal while withdrawing.

>revolt_

#35300000936 03/23/2006 16:57:20 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

If you try to withdraw and it fails you cant switch to a speed attack ..heal and then switch to withdraw?

>revolt_ wrote:

Renesis13B wrote:
For those saying you cant heal in interlock is bs.

You CAN heal in interlock. But you CAN'T heal while withdrawing.

>revolt_

Message Edited by Renesis13B on 03-23-200607:58 PM

#35300000940 03/23/2006 19:41:33 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

CPULoyal wrote:
AvatRAMa,
Please, check your numbers.

Wow, huge Error on my part. Forgive me, you're numbers are correct. but look at what you're saying, a hacker can take out more then half a MA's life in 20 seconds. now I know IL is supposed to be much faster, but even when I fight other MA's or gunmen as a MA it takes much longer then 20 seconds to fight, even longer then the 90 seconds you'll need to recoup Upgrade attacks and continue at 66%.

So what we need to be testing is what percent the accuracy boost from Upgrade attacks increases Hacker attacks as opposed to hacker attacks without Upgrade Attacks.

There's alot more to hacker to consider then just their single hits, which are being overlooked completely, Hackers can drop AoE's , something no other class can do. So my suggestion of 2.5 deaths from a hacker attack isn't unrealistic. Hackers alos have an aresenal of effects type abilites which can severly limit one player or a group. So a small reduction to how often they hit in IL, to me, is within the scope of balance.

And , yeah Al, we need to work on your resistence a bit. As all the Hackers I've seen jump into IL with any other class never take that much damage at all. Usually on average it's about 100pts. but I've seen it as low as 66 pts. and 200+ pts. w/o specials.

I understand how it must look for someone who doesn't normally play as a hacker to say anything about how you all will play, but thing is it is my concern how all classes will play. For personal reasons I like to know a litte about all classes, as a faction leader I want all my members happy and satisfied with their playing style but I also learn how all classes work to help any new players in or out of the faction get an edge. I'm not asking for a nerf, only realistic expectations for what each class should and can accomplish as a group or solo.

#35300000941 03/23/2006 20:36:47 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Funny how 90% of the pvpers are using viral attacks now. Whatever interlock penalties hackers have its not enough. If anything hackers rather be in interlock now since each round takes 4 seconds. They can launch an attack that does a lot of damage in less than 4 secs and have a very high success rate in landing it. As a duelist theres hackers trying to interlock me instead of me trying to interlock them. That isnt right.

#35300000942 03/23/2006 23:29:47 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Well, I tested an ballista/vector loadout today and with the fixed Upgrade Attacks they hit less than before. But that is a good thing. I was still able to dish out some serious damage very quickly and in a very flexible way. Outside of IL the hacker accuracy seemed appropriate for it's feeling.

Haven't tested a hacker's accuracy in IL though... :/

Renesis13B wrote:
If you try to withdraw and it fails you cant switch to a speed attack ..heal and then switch to withdraw?

Oh, yes, you can change to speed attack and use a pill. But when you try to go back to withdraw, the IL queue system seems to get seriously screwed up and most of the time you're continuing with your speed attacks, until you spam the withdraw button, hoping that withdraw gets queued in. Sometimes the withdraw button doesn't even show that it is being used and no withdraw text appears in the system messages. :/

>revolt_

#35300000953 03/24/2006 09:24:36 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

AvatRAMa, Agreed. A hacker might take half the HP of another player in 20 seconds, though we are taking the best scenario possible. As it was said, the best way to see the overall effect in the last few days before going live.
I'm arguing in favor of hackers, because I fell that the Combat Revision might go in the wrong way, giving a new play state, where MA become the selected class for every trade.
I want, the same as you, to have the freedom that I have to choose any class as it suits my personal game style. MxO is not only PvP and having an environment that might force me in that sense is not The Matrix to me.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000957 03/24/2006 10:32:21 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

You would rather have everyone using Hacker than Martial Arts? I find that really suprising and I think the majority of the players dont want to see that happen.

#35300000960 03/24/2006 12:00:31 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Renesis13B wrote:
You would rather have everyone using Hacker than Martial Arts? I find that really suprising and I think the majority of the players dont want to see that happen.

No, I didn't say that. I'm all for balance amongst class. I accepted what Frog said about the downing of power for hacker on IL. I understand that the way it is now at live, is what it makes hacker overpowered.

My position comes from the perspective that is not good to nerf hackers instead of balancing them. OK, hacker is not a IL class, so it must be tough for a hacker to win on IL and most of the changes on the EP server are going through that path.

Nevertheless, if the claim is to have it as a support or second line fighting class, taking out the ability to be effective at range defeats that purpose. That's why I'm asking for a review of the effects at distance.

TekMon, The New Order

#35300000978 03/24/2006 18:53:58 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

Well, I found myself quite effective at range as a hacker...

>revolt_

#35300000979 03/24/2006 22:17:49 Re: Upgrade Attacks Overpowered

hacker ftw :smileytongue: