Hacker Focus testing request - MXO Forum Archive

#35300000448 02/24/2006 14:35:59 Hacker Focus testing request

We need some focus on the viablity of hacker soloing mission and even level mobs. Specificially if the durations for debuffs and Crowd Control abilities appear to give the character enough of a tool in order to solo.

We are interested in feed back from all levels of characters. However make sure that your abilities are leveled to the maximums or close to it for this.

Please post feed back in this thread.

#35300000450 02/24/2006 16:17:30 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Ive been testing the ballista tree as a level 50 running missions and farming creston mobs. The biggest problem I see so far is the innerstrength cost/regen. Even with max Vitality and as many is cost reduction bonuses from passive abilies I use about 3/4 of my is killing a level 50 npc. The enhanced items we are missing should help with that though. The fighting method im using is first Stun 1.0 (15 is) and then alternate between LBar 4.0 (26 is) and LBlast 3.0 (22 is) until the npc is dead.

#35300000451 02/24/2006 16:37:06 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Is it to late to join the test server? Would any time I spend there be of any benefit now that the feature lock down is complete?

#35300000452 02/24/2006 16:54:24 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Yes you can join the test server. We need all the people we can get to find bugs, inbalances etc.

#35300000453 02/24/2006 17:01:06 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Definately not to late to join the test server.

And what I am looking for is that each tree should have the tools to solo a normal difficulty procedural give the tools they have available to them. That doesn't mean load out a single tree and nothing else but completely loadout a tree and then fill in the gaps with whatever you think you will need and see who it goes.

Please post your build and feed back in this thread.

#35300000454 02/24/2006 17:31:43 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

I should have been more clear. Ballista was fully loaded and parts of other hacker trees were loaded as well. Mostly I loaded any passive ability that gave beneficial bonuses such as viral accuracy and is cost reduction.

#35300000456 02/24/2006 19:09:10 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

I tested hacker in PvE last week, all was good except for one bug with dev field that caused the NPC's to be stunned permanently until I dev fieled them again....it was ...strange.

I /bug'd it.

#35300000457 02/24/2006 21:20:21 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

NoRepro wrote:
We need some focus on the viablity of hacker soloing mission and even level mobs. Specificially if the durations for debuffs and Crowd Control abilities appear to give the character enough of a tool in order to solo.
We are interested in feed back from all levels of characters. However make sure that your abilities are leveled to the maximums or close to it for this.
Please post feed back in this thread.

are you looking for hacker with stats maxed out specificly for being a hacker? Or someone with stats more geared towards guns/ma than hacker?

#35300000458 02/24/2006 23:15:59 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

ReguIus wrote:
I tested hacker in PvE last week, all was good except for one bug with dev field that caused the NPC's to be stunned permanently until I dev fieled them again....it was ...strange.

I /bug'd it.

Yeah... That was the one I got hit with, the other day.
Finally took it off with a sweep, but sometimes the Dev Field timer simply doesn't go down, resulting in an otherwise permanent stun.

- Void

Recursion: n - See Recursion.

#35300000460 02/25/2006 00:12:15 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Force Multiplier:

- With Hyperdeflect and Hyperdodge running the two lvl 50 devcon 1 mob weren´t really able to hit me. I feel like a bulletcatcher. cool. The damage output is okay and i can take these two guys out in a good time.
In the Nextroom i tried a lvl 50 devcon 2 mob. My damage and chance to hit is far too low. I choosed grabtactic ans switched from hyperdodge to hyperblock but this mob won the rolls in about 4 of 5 times or so. Ok, my Hotbar was not well sortet, but i really don´t want to meet a devcon 3 of my level.
- IS-regen in combat is too low.
- just running Combat Aura 1.0 let my IS slightly decrease.
- If i would have to use Sweep and heals in harder combats, the problem is not only there is no chance to get any IS back in a good amount of time the last rest of IS is eaten from the running Upgrades like Bullet deflect and Hyperblock together, or only Combat Aura 1.0.

Destroyer:

- Destroyer feels weak.
- Old system : Do a area stun and you have time to place a Destroyer and Devastationfield without getting much damage.
- New system : Stun timer is very short. I become shot and Mobs try to break my Evade shield. I do some debuffs. A few don´t hit. IS empty... what now?....Oh yeah shoot or interlock them. But the timer of Destroyer is now 20 secs. And Destroyers Interlockskills are ....nevermind.
- Second try: I have the Artillerist stuff loaded beside the Destroyer and i spent my IS into damage outputs only.
But my chance to hit was really poor. And after all IS was gone and a mob pulled me into interlock i did maybe 20 % damage to the one of the two lvl 50 devcon 1 guys. And the other had lucky rolls and almost no damage. No chance to downgrade in interlock because most abilities are not allowed. Ok, roll out. hm...IS at around 20 %. Not enough to do something worthfull.

dave

If i would have more trees i would give you more :smileysad:

Nachricht bearbeitet von davemusic am 02-25-200609:23 AM

#35300000462 02/25/2006 11:11:05 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

More Force Multiplier Tests:

- Dueling: A well experienced lvl 47 MA is an almost even match to me as lvl 50
- Dueling: Duelist lvl 46 damage resistance for us both that high and damage output that low that we can fight forever if i don´t have both combat Aura proggies running.
* In the animations i get in 8 of 10 rolls the hit. I understand this as his overall rolls are much better then mine, weird... not?

- If have have combat aura proggies running: It´s a normal-length match with a clear win for the lvl 50. IS empty after that match and for my feeling an empty IS vs. a lvl 46 is a bit too much.

- Dueling: MA lvl 50 --> instant death. I got to load full upgrades that means IS costs like no tomorrow that means no chance to use the FM heals/selfheals. wich give the FM "an edge" in the old system.

- damage sum up: in PvE and PvP the base damage output is too low. Compared to the IS costs the damage output with upgrades is too low. To type a number compared to an MA doing easily 600 and more damage with a special and considering the IS costs, i should be able to do somewhat of 250-300 damage over a period of time vs. a 50 lvl mob devcon 2 and stay in combat with an acceptable IS reload to don´t have to leave the group in trouble without FMs group heals and flee like a coward to sit down on any roof.

- roll sum up: too low without and too low with upgrades.

Just an idea:
If you would ask me : what should a Force Multiplier be?
I would answer: Where a MA has a consistent damage output and damage resistance and rolls, the ForceMultiplier is a bit better but just for periods. The IS is balanced to be able to load Roll/Resistance Buffs OR damage buffs.
Maybe it´s easier to balance with restrictions to load both kind of buffs. Then we woudn´t have an Uber-FM after he´s tweaked a bit up.

I think that´s all i can tell about Force Multiplier

dave

Nachricht bearbeitet von davemusic am 02-25-200608:12 PM

#35300000463 02/25/2006 11:22:37 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Isnt FM/UM suppose to be more of a support class than a fighter?

#35300000466 02/25/2006 21:43:50 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

ok tried several loadouts as solo hacker, and tested them out on well worn in mobs to compare the old version and the new version with some what of an equal mob stand point

as dave mentioned the destroyer is very weak

dev field is very weak, and I have seen this so far in every instance of offense hacker, the ability to land a virus successfully is very pitiful, even with buffs, I was getting over 50% viral deflects from mobs 20 lvls lower

also as dave mentioned the virus loading on the destroyer tree... is quite a bit longer... which with the lowered IS regen in game, greatly hinders the purpose of the destroyer tree, to attack multiple foes at once

script kiddy tree

again this goes with the other before mentioned offensive hacker classes, the amount of times viruses get deflected is at "*CENSORED*!?!?!?" level with viral accuracy bonuses, the good olde trusty code shock ability is deflected a hell of alot

still testing artillerist, and arbalist, so far one thing that is always present, very high amount of virus deflects, even from mobs that it should land on 100% of the time

did more testing... the hacker tree is broken very badly

IS cost is ok, however the nerf on the IS regen comes into play and grealy reduces the combat effectiveness of an offensive hacker

Message Edited by betaprimus on 02-25-200609:55 PM

#35300000469 02/26/2006 05:12:24 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Renesis13B schrieb:
Isnt FM/UM suppose to be more of a support class than a fighter?

As NoRepro said. Every class should be able to do a medium difficulty mission on their own.

Since the last patch the mobs are that easy. I can kill a lvl 55 mob on my own with my MA.
3 lvl 51 are no problem. No heals needed.

But in this same system the FM damage isn´t high enough to kill a even-level devcon 2 damage.... oh, common.

I can´t switch some upgrades on and do some damage but then my IS goes empty and the upgrades turn off > dead. Before i was able to do kill a single lvl 50 devcon 2 WITHOUT any other mobs shooting at me.

I´m really the last one who wants overpowered hackerclass back, but hacker is pretty broken.

Btw. The IS - system is something i NEVER liked. Think of it. How often i saw hackers jumping into a pvp-war. Put all their hacks out. IS empty. Some guys killed.... Jump away. Come back with fresh IS.

dave

Nachricht bearbeitet von davemusic am 02-26-200602:18 PM

#35300000471 02/26/2006 15:34:38 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

Vector:

Don´t have the redfrags to code the abilities for the stuff below Vector. And after half an hour without any drop i gave up, but i loaded a mix of Vector and Artillerist and partly the Destroyer.

Chance to hit is far too low. maybe 1 of 5.

But if one of this DOT-attacks hit , they do a nice damage. I think this branch can be dangerous with a better Accuracy.

Bottleneck, Vector, and then DOTs... is what i did... IS empty....jump out to sit down or i become shot after the pacify of 6 sec. is gone.

maybe a good mix if the IS and accuracy penalties are tweaked.... maybe a bit too good.

Duel: Ballista vs. MA

Did some duels with Sosuke after he trained a bit as ballista.

He found a way to tweak his viral damage. And what can i say.... i lost in... uh... 4 of 5 duels often before i was able to break the bubble.

Sosuke won also the duels on all duels with other players as far i have seen.

The one duel i won i had lucky rolls and deflected his initial-attack a logic cannon 3.0 ond some other stuff.

I think he´ll post his experience later.

dave

#35300000479 02/27/2006 08:59 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

It should be noted in my Friday testing of CR 2.0 that I ran across a bug where your Hacker style becomes severly nerfed. This is relatively easy to do because it only requires you to load, unload, and then reload your Hacker ability. The problem stems from the Execute Program and Hacker ability both trying to provide your Hacker style.

The work around is if you ever have to unload your Hacker ability you need to unload your Execute Program ability and then reload both.

I use the Hacker ability often to auto unload a whole hacker tree at once. This is how I came across this problem.

This being said some of the testing done where players were switching between Hacker trees would probably run into this problem if they do like me and unload whole trees at a time using the Hacker ability.

#35300000484 02/27/2006 14:24 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

It should be noted also that many other ways of getting into the Hacker Style nerf is possible, teleporting through a harldine, dieing and reconstructing can also do it.

#35300000496 03/01/2006 09:17 Re: Hacker Focus testing request

I asked for the feedback so that the devs would have a sense of where the hacker trees are at. They have all the numbers available to them but the players use them the most and we value player feedback about the game.

Should all hackers be able to solo, imo, yes. But that doesn't mean the Patch should be able to walk into a room and wipe out 3 single chevs in under 3 seconds. The difficulty of soloing for all hacker trees should vary between them, some may have an easy time some may be very hard to solo, but they should still be able to solo.

With the feedback we have gotten the devs are going to revisit some aspects of the hackers and try to solve some of the problems we are seeing with the different trees

And as an added bonus simulacra are getting a little closer look.Meaning the actual pet and it's abilities are getting a look over.

The_Wendigo wrote:
A question for NoRepro: Should all trees really be able to solo multiple foes of equal level? What is the point of having different trees if everyone is essentially equally effective?

I'm not saying that some trees should just be weaker than others, I'm saying that some should be better than others in solo-situations. The strength of the Spy tree is/was the ability to get the job done against superior numbers by remaining undetected. The strength of the Hacker is ranged attacking and debuffs. If the Hacker is just as good as the Spy at dealing with superior numbers (by destroying them, not just eluding them) then why ever play a Spy?

Anyone who has ever participated in the opening of a Pandora's Box 4 can tell you how important it is to have Hackers (Upgraders, Healers, Rezzers, and Debuffers primarily) backing you up, but that is their job - backup. Any time on of these trees exposes themselves to enemy fire, they risk a swift and painful death. IMO this is how it should be. Hackers should make a huge difference when you have good ones on your side in a group combat situation, but they should not be able to stand up to the big guns (Martial Artists, Gunmen) in solo combat.

An aside: the obvious execptions to most of my statements are the Force Multiplier and the Howitzer/Destroyer. Force Multiplier was designed as a "tank" class, and should retain that capability. Howitzer/Destroyers should retain their ability to devastate crowds, but should require a decoy or interference runner of some sort - someone to soak up the bullets for a second or two while they get their work done. As a further aside, I think that area effects like Fumble Field and Bottleneck Field should hit or miss on an individual basis.

My point here is, it seems to me that if we want to make Hacker the "support class" it was supposedly supposed to be, then they should suffer in situations where they are forced to the front line of fighting e.g. solo missions. Hackers should retain their powerful long-range damage capabilities, and debuffs have a very important role to play too, but I don't see that making Hackers able to solo as well as an Operative tree is a good goal for this Combat Revision.