To 9mmFu from KROG

16 posts · 2006-03-09 12:51:49 to 2006-03-10 14:06:17

#34900006142 03/09/2006 12:51:49 To 9mmFu from KROG
I'm sending this to NoRepro at his request. I thought I would share it with all of you guys as well. It;s basically just suggestions for improving gameplay in CR2.0. Feel free to discuss it and any more suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hey 9mmFu. The following are the suggestions you asked me to PM you. I did this quite fast this morning so please excuse and any errors, I also probably forgot a few things. Each paragraph below is a separate suggestion. Enjoy!

At the moment if someone is stealth is damaged they come out of stealth. This was fine before CR2.0 because it was possible to raise your dodge enough so you were rarely hit. With the randomness of CR2.0 it is nearly impossible to not get hit if someone sees you in a stealth skill. You will then be removed from it and have to retreat. I suggest making stealth use the ability concentration, so you have a chance to stay in stealth even after taking damage.

Firing a sniper ability while in Concealment shouldn’t un-stealth you. A real sniper can obviously take more than one shot from a single location; we should be able to do that too.

The abilities Find Weakness, Martial Arts Prowess, and Firearms Skill need to be executable while in stealth. Assassin greatly benefits from Find Weakness but they rarely ever have time to use it before a spy attack because of all the time taken to prepare a sneak attack.

Spy needs a real fighting style. I know it was given a style but this only applies buffs to the spy attacks. As soon as you IL you revert to Self Defense. Even if the fix worked, and spy style stayed on in IL, it would do almost no good offensively. When you hit your opponent the take melee or ballistic damage, depending on whether you are using your fists or a gun. This is ridiculous because once a spy is in IL they become completely useless even if they manage to land some attacks. A real spy combat must be created. At best it would have all new animations, but I know that would be completely unrealistic with the current MxO budget. I suggest, and suggested this in the past, that you make a spy combat system that looks exactly like Self Defense. The attacks from this would have Thrown Damage applied to them, not ballistic or melee. Without this Spy is almost completely useless.

Stealth abilities that use interlock, such as Bulldog or Punt, need to be usable from out of IL if the target is already in IL with another attacker. As it is, they cannot be activated if the target is already in IL. This makes spy almost useless in duels and PvP. I suggest that these abilities become free fire abilities when the target is already in IL, but they should still require the user to be stealthed.

It should be possible to cancel free firing by clicking on it again or going into stealth. As it is now, the only way to stop free firing is to jump, interlock, or select another target (which you cant do in a duel.) Free firing is a nuisance when it comes to stealth. For example: If I am a Sniper and I agree to a duel. I normally shoot first to damage and maybe stagger them. I then attempt to get in Concealment to fire a sniper shot. If I don’t jump before getting into Concealment, in 5.5 seconds (my sniper rifle’s reuse timer,) I will be forced out of concealment to fire a shot, thereby canceling the sniper shot. This is extremely annoying! Please make it so Free-firing can be cancelled by clicking the free-fire button a second time or going into s stealth state.

“You have to wait X seconds to use XXXX Ability again,” and other annoying messages should appear exclusively in the system chat instead of covering the screen.

Find a way to reset our base attribute set, True Believer, Fanatic Self Improver, etc or reset all base stats to 5 and give us the extra 15 attribute points to distribute as we choose. If neither is done, many people will be very pissed.

Make rolls less random or give us percent accuracy. Well as it is rolls are far too random. Before the roll scores were removed, I remember rolling a 397, followed immediately by a 7. This is just ridiculous in my opinion and makes it hard to really be “better” than someone else. My suggestion is to make the rolls less random, like the old system. If you guys still want low levels to hit high levels then make average ct start at around 200 for a new char, and end up at around 250 for a 50. This way with randomness of 50, even a level 2 can hit a 50 if he is lucky. If you guys are very adverse to this I suggest you make hitting someone the same level as you a certainty. For example: a 50 would never miss another 50. I 50 would never miss anyone below 50 either. However, a 49 would miss a 50 about 2% of the time, a 48 4% of the time, etc. I know this may sound a little weird but at least then on an even level duel the two participants can concentrate on timing and resistance, instead of getting lucky with extremely random rolls.

Evade shields are too strong. In duels, a good rifleman or hacker will almost always win against an IL class such as martial arts. Even when using Force Combat and the grab tactic, it can take 5 to 6 hits to break a bubble. I think with all that it should take at most three hits.

Get rid of XXXXX uses an Ability. It is useless, annoying, and clogs up system chat.

Make upgrades automatic. If I equip Expert Rifleman, the expert rifleman upgrade should go on by itself and stay on through teleporting. There are far to many self buffs as it is. I have to take 20 seconds or so after switching to a new tree to make sure all my buffs are on correctly. This is an unnecessary annoyance.

Thanks for listening. Any questions or comments please PM me. Also, if it’s not too much trouble, could you comment on each of these suggestion about the feasibility of them and whether you like them or not. Thanks in advance.

c.c. MxO Community, External Playtest Discussion

Best,

KROG
#34900006156 03/09/2006 14:43:06 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
Great suggestions. I'd like to see many of them implemented... Though I kind of like how the "roll" system is in CR2.0 right now, if it can be called a "roll" system.

Evade Shield, Stealth stuff, and the XXXX uses an ability suggestions are great and I hope they can be worked on by the dev team.
#34900006159 03/09/2006 15:10:56 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG

Oh my i actually agree with everything said  :smileytongue:

God darn it devs, get it in your heads we need auto activate class upgrades!

#34900006183 03/09/2006 20:14:24 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
Yea I was talking to NoRepro today about one of these issues on EP. He recommended that I PM him all of my suggestions. The PM system can only hold 2000 characters, so I guess he has to read this thread. SMILEY
#34900006184 03/09/2006 20:25:05 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG


Sykin wrote:
Great suggestions. I'd like to see many of them implemented... Though I kind of like how the "roll" system is in CR2.0 right now, if it can be called a "roll" system.

Evade Shield, Stealth stuff, and the XXXX uses an ability suggestions are great and I hope they can be worked on by the dev team.


How could you like the current "roll" system with how random it is? I'm not trying to flame you in anyway, I appreciate the feedback. I was trying to represent overall player views with the more general topics I brought up, so could you explain why you like it?
#34900006185 03/09/2006 20:52:43 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
The only thing I really dont like about the CU is the damage from MA specials, Sneaking suckiness, jerky animations in MA, the bug where if I fail an ability the npc rolls out, the fact bullet time doesnt last as long as it should for perfect awesome ness, and some other stuff.

Message Edited by Roukan on 03-09-200608:53 PM

#34900006200 03/10/2006 03:28:22 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
Please any dev just respond to this thread stating that you have at least read it! Bravo to KROG!!
#34900006201 03/10/2006 04:14:06 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
All I want are my rolls back and some consistency then I will fully love CR2.0
#34900006202 03/10/2006 04:20:51 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
Very good suggestions, obviously the spy tree needs a lot of attention as there are no so very many situations that render it unuseable, particularly in group scenarious.....sneak/disguise/invisibility should allow certain attacks and debuffs to be executed leaving you in the stealthed state the very least the timer should not be implemented for disguise, it should require the opponent to penetrate the disguise for it to drop...but until the tree complete and more robust its difficult to make too many suggestions.
I still maintain there is an oppertunity to auto-actibvate certain buffs and make other timed buffs non-timed which will greatly ease the user friendlyness of the system.
#34900006208 03/10/2006 07:40:33 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
Though Spy and Sniper still need alot of work, I really like the balance of the new CR 2.0, and I think it is facilitated by the new roll system, and the new Evade shield system.  So many people complain about the Evade shields, but almost no on actually works with them the way that was intended.  Focus and Perception influence Force and Evade Combat, so there will always be varying difficulty for breaking shields.  Accept this.  It makes the game more fun by making your choices count for more.  If it takes you 6 hits to break a shield, you are doing something wrong, or your opponent has dedicated their character to having a tough shield, and it should be hard to break.

If you have max Focus, use Grab, and Compel Close Combat, and still can't break shields, then you have a right to complain.  As far as I know, nobody does that.

Other than that your suggestions are top notch.  Let's get these last tweaks done and roll this baby out.

Message Edited by The_Wendigo on 03-10-200607:41 AM

#34900006209 03/10/2006 08:33:32 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG
Awesome suggestions, definitely need reveiwing and implementing.

However, re: Snipers. Their duty is to kill and move on. They never stay in the same place for one time, it blows their cover. So unstealthing after a sniper shot makes sense to me.

Other than that, good stuff!
#34900006211 03/10/2006 09:12:40 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG

The_Wendigo wrote:
Though Spy and Sniper still need alot of work, I really like the balance of the new CR 2.0, and I think it is facilitated by the new roll system, and the new Evade shield system.  So many people complain about the Evade shields, but almost no on actually works with them the way that was intended.  Focus and Perception influence Force and Evade Combat, so there will always be varying difficulty for breaking shields.  Accept this.  It makes the game more fun by making your choices count for more.  If it takes you 6 hits to break a shield, you are doing something wrong, or your opponent has dedicated their character to having a tough shield, and it should be hard to break.

If you have max Focus, use Grab, and Compel Close Combat, and still can't break shields, then you have a right to complain.  As far as I know, nobody does that.

Other than that your suggestions are top notch.  Let's get these last tweaks done and roll this baby out.

Message Edited by The_Wendigo on 03-10-200607:41 AM



As a Duelist a have max Percep, max Focus, Force Combat on, and I'm using grab tactic. It still usually takes about 5 hits to break a good shield.
Oh and NoRepro said he would read this ingame, so it's just a matter of time until he does hopefully. SMILEY
#34900006224 03/10/2006 12:46:41 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG


The_Wendigo wrote:
Though Spy and Sniper still need alot of work, I really like the balance of the new CR 2.0, and I think it is facilitated by the new roll system, and the new Evade shield system.  So many people complain about the Evade shields, but almost no on actually works with them the way that was intended.  Focus and Perception influence Force and Evade Combat, so there will always be varying difficulty for breaking shields.  Accept this.  It makes the game more fun by making your choices count for more.  If it takes you 6 hits to break a shield, you are doing something wrong, or your opponent has dedicated their character to having a tough shield, and it should be hard to break.

If you have max Focus, use Grab, and Compel Close Combat, and still can't break shields, then you have a right to complain.  As far as I know, nobody does that.

Other than that your suggestions are top notch.  Let's get these last tweaks done and roll this baby out.

Message Edited by The_Wendigo on 03-10-200607:41 AM



I refer you to
here

I have submitted bug reports to this effect. I believe Krog, myself and many others with experience on the XP server are not asking a return to the old 1 hit and it breaks system. Simply a closer look at the current evade system and hopefully more of a normalization of the percentages. That means that someone who has virtually no attributes, no abilities, and no clothing which adds to evade versus someone with max focus/grab/compel/clothes will have their bubble broken in 1 hit.

I specifically tested this last night and it still took 3 tries to break the bubble. In the opposite situation (speed tactics/no attributes to force/no compel/no clothing vs attributes/clothing/abilties/block) it took 10 hits but on the flip side did lower the person's IS to 30pts.

3-10 i feel should be shifted perhaps to 2-9. Not a huge change, but certainly a noticeable one.
#34900006228 03/10/2006 13:30:39 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG


DA6ONET wrote:
Please any dev just respond to this thread stating that you have at least read it!


Yes we've read it, it's actually been sent around in an email here. This is great feedback, and here are some brief responses:

With stealth stuff, I don't think the fixed Stealth has made it into the test server yet. When it does, Stealth should be working a lot beter.

I think we're going to look into the Evade Shield stuff... it definitely shouldn't be taking anybody 5 or more hits AFAIK.

Not being able to stop free firing - you should be able to click on it again to stop firing, adn the little cross hairs on the free fire button goes unlit. If you can't, that's a bug.

Snipers staying hidden: may be realistic but this is a place where realism != fun gameplay. Being able to stay hidden and repeatedly deal out great amounts of damage, while fun for the sniper, would not be much fun for the, uh, snipee. But keep in mind snipers just got some lovin'. Line Up The Shot is going to add some DPS while it's going, and it doesn't kick you out of concealment to use that ability. I think it's going to make Sniper pretty fun SMILEY

Oh and the title buffs... the most contentious remaining element in CR2. We are doing a slight redesign on them, which includes fixing the going-through-hardlines problem.

Thanks again for the feedback K. We actually do read a lot of feedback on these boards even when we don't reply individually to threads.
#34900006231 03/10/2006 14:04:10 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG


HCFrog wrote:


DA6ONET wrote:
Please any dev just respond to this thread stating that you have at least read it!


Yes we've read it, it's actually been sent around in an email here. This is great feedback, and here are some brief responses:

Thanks again for the feedback K. We actually do read a lot of feedback on these boards even when we don't reply individually to threads.



Thank you very much!

Would it be possible to have some indicator on a thread which shows a Dev has viewed it?
#34900006232 03/10/2006 14:06:17 Re: To 9mmFu from KROG

HCFrog wrote:


DA6ONET wrote:
Please any dev just respond to this thread stating that you have at least read it!


Yes we've read it, it's actually been sent around in an email here. This is great feedback, and here are some brief responses:

With stealth stuff, I don't think the fixed Stealth has made it into the test server yet. When it does, Stealth should be working a lot beter.

I think we're going to look into the Evade Shield stuff... it definitely shouldn't be taking anybody 5 or more hits AFAIK.

Not being able to stop free firing - you should be able to click on it again to stop firing, adn the little cross hairs on the free fire button goes unlit. If you can't, that's a bug.

Snipers staying hidden: may be realistic but this is a place where realism != fun gameplay. Being able to stay hidden and repeatedly deal out great amounts of damage, while fun for the sniper, would not be much fun for the, uh, snipee. But keep in mind snipers just got some lovin'. Line Up The Shot is going to add some DPS while it's going, and it doesn't kick you out of concealment to use that ability. I think it's going to make Sniper pretty fun SMILEY

Oh and the title buffs... the most contentious remaining element in CR2. We are doing a slight redesign on them, which includes fixing the going-through-hardlines problem.

Thanks again for the feedback K. We actually do read a lot of feedback on these boards even when we don't reply individually to threads.


Thanks for the reply F. SMILEY
I know you guys were redesigning the stealth aspect so I didn't say anything about being detected easily, but I didn't know if you were looking at anything else. Could you or another dev please comment on my suggestion about spy combat and spy attacks as well as being able to stay in sneak when taking damage?
I know you are busy and it takes time to inform us, but it would really help. At the moment I am not even bothering testing the spy stuff because it just doesn't work without their own combat system. No one in their right mind would be a spy on the real servers the way it is now. So tell me something is being done! So I can sleep at night. SMILEY Thanks in advance.
-K (lol the abbreviation sticks)
P.S. I forgot to mention this. If you like a thread but do not post something on it the thread will die. If you post the thread appears on the Dev Tracker. More people then see the thread and will most likely post their oppinions and you can get a broader view on how the community views the topics in the thread.

Message Edited by KivoOnline on 03-10-200602:12 PM