Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

30 posts · 2006-01-13 17:42:20 to 2006-02-13 02:39:55

#34900004348 01/13/2006 17:42:20 Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

The following is a quick compilation of how CR 2.0 works for people who are either unable to find or understand all the faq and help documents floating around out there. This is basically a repost of the information I posted earlier (with a lot more detail and a little more confidence in the accuracy of the info, this time around).  I don't claim to know everything about CR 2.0, but this is a compilation of what I do know either from the devs themselves or by experimentation.

Interlock

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Probably the single biggest change in CR 2.0 is the removal of zero sum interlock combat. Interlock now works on a dual roll system, which means that in each round of interlock, there are two rolls - your attack vs your opponent's defense, and your defense vs your opponent's attack. This makes many things possible. If you have a high attack roll and a low defense roll, and so does your opponent, this is what is called a win/win roll, meaning that both combatants damage their opponent in that round. The following is a list of all the possible outcomes for a single round of interlock:

win/win - both fighters damage their opponent

win/lose - you damage your opponent and block his attempt to damage you

lose/win - your opponent damages you and blocks your attempt to damage him

lose/lose - nobody damages anybody

Of these, obviously, the worst case scenario is lose/win. More detail on how to avoid this can be found in the Tactics section of this post.

Attributes

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Attributes are semi-new to CR 2.0. These include things like Melee Damage, Melee Accuracy, Ballistic Accuracy, Ballistic Resistance, Evade Interlock, Force Combat, Blind Duration, etc - the list goes on. Some of these aren't new, such as Melee Damage. Others are not new, but have new names, or have been split up. Combat Tactics, for example, no longer exists as a whole. It has been divided into Melee Accuracy, Ballistic Accuracy, Melee Defense, and Ballistic Defense (Ballistic = Ranged, for those of you who don't know). Several are completely new, like initiative, which determines who's animation goes first in an interlock round. A complete description of which attributes do what can be found here: /mirror/news_display.vm?id=57&month=current

Stats

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In CR 2.0, stats play a much larger role than they used to. They are now the primary influencers for attributes, so it is more important than ever to choose your stats wisely. Stats now have a cap of 30, and when they are capped at 30, they provide a 50% buff to the attributes they influence (for example, maxing Focus will grant you a 50% bonus to melee damage). A stat at 15 provides a buff of 25% to an attribute. Note that these are percents, not points. A complete table of which stats affect what attributes can be found here: /mirror/news_display.vm?id=54&month=current

Tactics

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CR 2.0 has made Interlock combat in MxO much more strategic. The same old tactics remain, but each of them has specific uses. Here is a short table of how it works now:

Speed - high attack/very low defense - medium damage

Power - low attack/medium defense - high damage

Grab - medium attack/high defense - low damage

Block - no attack/highest defense - no damage (duh)

Essentially, this means that if you're using the speed tactic, you have a good chance of passing your attack roll and doing moderate damage, but you're probably going to get hit by your opponent as well (resulting in a win/win). Next is a short table of what is likely* to happen in a round of interlock between two equal opponents using the same ability trees when two tactics collide (largely based on the chart above - refer to the above table to see who damages who more):

Your tactic       vs          Opponent tactic                             Probable Outcome(s)

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Speed             vs               Power                                                 win/win

Speed            vs                Grab                                            win/win, lose/win

Speed            vs                Block                                          lose/win, lose/lose

Power            vs                Grab                                           lose/win, lose/lose

Power            vs               Block                                           lose/win, lose/lose

Grab              vs               Block                                           lose/win, lose/lose

*Actual results can and will vary. It is important to note that average attack tactics are always higher than average defense tactics (with the exception of Aikido - its block tactic is higher than its speed attack), however, rolls in CR 2.0 are nowhere near as consistent as they were under the old system (which is what allows a lvl 2 a chance to hit a lvl 50 - and it's not such a small chance).

It should be noted that without the combat interface, you have to watch the System chat pane very closely to see the outcomes of the rolls, specifically to look for which tactic your opponent is using to attempt to prepare the appropriate response. I hope you can read fast. The full details of which tactic does what is available here: /mirror/news_display.vm?id=38&month=current (it's near the bottom of the page)

Martial Arts Ability Trees

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In CR 2.0, which martial art you use does influence your rolls. Thus far I have only experimented with Self Defense and the three martial arts, as all my guns have been rendered inoperable until their buffs are translated to the new system. That said, here is a brief list of how the martial arts work out. These are based on my character alone, at level 50, with the appropriate Grandmaster ability buff running, and belief and focus maxed (in other words, the best melee fighter I could make without enhanced clothes):

Kung Fu - medium damage, high attack tactics, medium defense tactics

Karate - high damage, medium attack tactics, low defense tactics

Aikido - low damage, low attack tactics, high defense tactics

It should be noted that the differences in most of these numbers was generally small, so no one martial art is really better than the other two. I didn't list self defense because it's easier to just say it's the lowest all around.

Frequently Asked Questions

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1. Hey! My special attack didn't go off! What's up with that?

Numerous things. First, special attacks are bugged. I did some experimentation, and about 60% of the time, specials aren't ever activated; the icon just flashes for the duration of the fight. Around 20% of the time, the special is activated, but it misses. Approximately 18% of the time, the special is activated and succeeds, and around 2% of the time, the special succeeds, but you don't see its animation because your opponent had the initiative and won his attack roll.

2. How do I use melee free fire?

Same way you use a gun. Put a melee style in the ranged slot on your hotbar, get within melee range, and click the ranged slot or hit the + key. Only standard tactics can be used for melee free-fire aside from the two pre-existing melee free-fire attacks, Swirling Ki Summon and Ki Burst.

3. I'm level 50 and I'm getting beat by a level 25. What can I do?

Make sure your stats are buffing the attributes you need them to. Make sure you also activate the appropriate tree buff. Currently you can only have one tree buff running, but they do help. Finally, make sure you have your best style activated.

4. What's a good combat roll in CR 2.0?

This is something I'm still trying to determine. I would suggest anything in the 150 range to be pretty good for an attack roll, and anything in the 125 range to be a good defensive roll.

5. When's CR 2.0 going to live?

When it's done.

Cautions and Words of Wisdom

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1. Be wary of groups of opponents. Three opponents close to your level are a much bigger threat than they were in the old system, especially since rolling out is now a contested roll (meaning it may not succeed). No more soloing pandora's boxes for me (or anybody else).

2. Tactic boosters aren't as useful as they used to be. They only boost your attack tactics, not your defense, meaning they're useless if you're outnumbered and taking a beating (which was the only time I ever used them in the old system). You'll hit the guy you're fighting more often, but he'll keep hitting you just as often as before, as will his buddies firing at you with guns. Use them only against a single opponent that you can't hit with your attacks.

3. You're not as globally effective as a martial artist as you used to be. If you max out focus and belief and load out a grandmaster martial art, you're going to be hit by bullets. A lot. If you're like me and like to focus on martial arts, I'd recommend putting at least some of your stat points in perception to help your ballistic defense.

4. Don't forsake vitality, but don't really bother focusing on it either. In the new system, you're likely to take more damage than in the old system. Vitality helps out a lot of stuff that can be used as a cushion, be it improving your initiative or just giving you a bigger health bar. However, all the health in the world and a maxed out initiative isn't going to win your battles. It doesn't matter if you get first strike in a round if you're always missing.

5. Take a look at the changes in the Awakened tree. Alot smaller, isn't it? Most of the remaining abilities don't do anything close to what they used to, so it's a good time to reevaluate which abilities you're going to keep.

6. Several of the old abilities that did not max at 50 before now do (such as Combat Toughness). Make sure you spend some $info to level them.

7. Like multi-on-one interlock, disarming is no longer possible. This makes gunmen a bigger threat in interlock than they used to be, because they can continue to use their strengths against you. You don't need to fear them, but I've noticed a bigger chunk of my health missing after fighting gunmen than with the old system.

8. While you're on the External Playtest server, don't be afraid to experiment with your stats. Stat rehack items are for sale for the bargain price of $i 10 on all Item Vendors, so you can reassign your stat points as many times as you wish until you find the combination that best fits your playstyle.

Message Edited by Tantalus010 on 01-13-200605:47 PM

#34900004349 01/13/2006 17:52:01 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Thanks for this man. I appreciate it :smileyhappy:.
#34900004350 01/13/2006 18:08:01 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

:smileyvery-happy: ya tha guide seems to bring more light to things i could not see b4... CR2.0 is gona take a whioe to get used to but we will all ajust eventually.:smileysad:lol a1st i had no clu wat was hapening and y tha lvl 25 was killing me but now i am getting more used to it .. it will also be better we they put som of tha close back in tha game with the new bufs right now all i got is a top and pants.. :smileyhappy:

*cough* sticky *cough*

Message Edited by supersdcurge on 01-14-200602:09 AM

#34900004351 01/13/2006 18:20:49 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Happy I could help guys.  If you have questions I haven't answered here, go ahead and post them here.  I'll probably do several versions of this as CR 2.0 changes throughout its beta, and if I can answer your questions, I will.
#34900004352 01/13/2006 18:00:49 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Nice!

You just opened my eyes to a lot of stuff, I've only gotten to play for about an hour and you probably just saved me 2-3 more hours of testing.

Thanks and gj!
#34900004353 01/13/2006 18:03:37 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
 I think this must be the single most helpfull post I have ever read on the MXO forums.
#34900004354 01/13/2006 18:07:19 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Sticky!
#34900004355 01/13/2006 18:32:26 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Excellent, this has clarified a lot of my own thoughts about this Combat Upgrade. This should certinaly be stickied.
#34900004356 01/13/2006 18:46:18 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
So the special abilities ARE bugged. I thought I was losing my mind...
#34900004357 01/13/2006 18:53:04 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies


Talauntiar wrote:
So the special abilities ARE bugged. I thought I was losing my mind...



As far as I can tell, yes.  Unfortunately, I didn't report it yet because I was going to do so here on the forums, only to find out after I finished testing that the bug thread had been locked and now EP is down.  I'll have to do it Tuesday when the server comes back up.
#34900004358 01/13/2006 21:11:57 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
this is a very good post and explaination. thanks SMILEY
#34900004359 01/17/2006 13:00:52 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
This is the best topic on the EP yet.

Message Edited by Sykin on 01-17-200601:01 PM

#34900004360 01/14/2006 03:03:16 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

Outstanding post.

Bumpage til it's stickyfied...

Regards

#34900004361 01/14/2006 03:52:11 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

That is a fantastic guide however could some1 confirm that disarm is removed from the game like said in your guide or have i misunderstood something

Again great guide

#34900004362 01/14/2006 04:03:02 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Only in interlock, there is no more disarm in interlock...
#34900004363 01/14/2006 04:02:57 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Disarm has been removed from the game. Grab attacks no longer give a chance to disarm, and fumblefield is now merely a 1/2 strength version of despoiler.
#34900004375 01/14/2006 20:47 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

Wow nice... I understand it a bit better

#34900004378 01/17/2006 04:09:08 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

eliXor wrote:
so in other words. worrying about 20 head of lvl 50 cattle beating you down is now kitty cat compared to them 20 cattle plus their 15 low lvl  calves.

CR 2.0 (CRAP REVAMP)


Do you talk about anything on these forums other than cows?

Anyway, what I'd like to know is - how are specials activated properly?

By that I mean - if I click Special Attack X, I would like to see it queued (with the blinking icon) and carried out at the next possible opportunity, then deactivated. There should be some visual representation of when the attack is being carried out as we don't always see the animation.
If it requires certain states, then it should be queued until those states are achieved, then carried out, then deactivated.

When I was fighting it was purely random. I clicked an ability and I was totally oblivious whether or not it worked, sometimes I saw an icon, sometimes the opponent would just die ... it's really ambiguous.
#34900004379 01/17/2006 09:25:33 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU!!!
You saved me hours of trial and error by posting this info.  You sir should be stickied!
#34900004381 01/17/2006 14:04:24 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
superb post!
#34900004555 01/29/2006 07:04:50 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Do you take paypal or can I use a credit card?
#34900004564 01/29/2006 11:30:11 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Thank you for posting this!
Illyria
#34900004572 01/29/2006 14:26:58 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies

Now all we need is a kickass tutorial or special training construct so that we can really learn this stuff hands-on, step by step.  I haven't been on QA since everytime I waltz in I get killed with one or two shots to the head.

Rather, lets practice on Bob and use your excellent guide as a guide till we figure it out and get comfortable!!  I tend to learn by doing, I'll forget a lot of what's been posted here.   Devs let Tantalus help write the new tutorial!!
#34900004627 01/30/2006 12:42:20 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
nice guide. Sticky..Plus revisions when we get closer to un-bugged (hoping) update 41
#34900004799 02/03/2006 08:16:52 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
Wow, this makes everything much easier.  I guess my only question now is one taken from the other threads.  My big problem is with the combat animations.  I was told we were promised something like 12,000 new combat animations, and the ones we are seeing now are just hacks of the ones currently live.  Is this just a quick fix for the test server?  I would like to think that they won't go live till the product is up to par with the animations they promised.
FireFalcon
#34900004868 02/06/2006 05:08:22 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
"Disarming is no longer possible."

*10,000 person hallejuia choir*

Awesome, now I won't have to sell my gunman tree after all!!
Bless you, devs. Bless you.

"Get a man's name, Aelus." -Obaid
#34900004941 02/09/2006 02:29:10 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
good post.  more than likely, CR 2.0 will destroy this game. im pretty sure over 50% os the players will quit this game totally becuse of the major changes coming. the more i play the test server, the more i dislike it. ive played it for a while and it just doesnt do it for me. i understand it and know how it works so far. and i must say. im not impressed  at all. really, i'm disapointed. i'd better squeeze the last few good weeks left in this game while its still fun. its just totally stupid the 2.0 update.
you guys want to improve the game, this is  the way to do it:
the best thing would be to make it free! that would be a good start. or lower the monthly cost to like 5.99 or 9.99. more people may just play then. also give free copies away. no one is buying this game from the video game stores anymore. and the Guide might as well be burned or rewritten, cuz nothing in it will be accurate anylonger( its inaccurate now!!). its just getting more and more frustrating dealing with the anticipated changes being made and its not really for the good of the game.
if they want to make the Matrix better, make it bigger. larger. develop more constructs and a zone created just for PvP.(such as in city of villians) and not the construct. why wait 5 mins just to go to an area to fight or die.
increase the player max level. from 50 to 60. why not!?!?! 
this isnt all about 2.0. its about the game as a whole. why in a whole year of playing, the story line is moving slower than Christmas 2007. why do we have to wait 3 months for a darn cinematic thats 30 seconds long with very little dialogue or insight. its all just mystery. when is the next big online event? hmm.. SOE doesnt even know... stop stringing us along SOE and give it to us how WE want it !!! we want more online world events, we want to be able to see and talk to characters from the movie. and not only the few, every 6 months. whats the purpose of having 3 worlds? condense it to 2. hostile and non hostile. In EQ there are like 3 expansion packs for the game... will MXO have the same lvl of expansion? most games do...(i doubt it)
 im sick of people coming on the forums kissing *CENSORED* to the devs about the 2.0.(the game period!!!) just be honest and say that it sucks!!! you know it sucks because no one is ever on the test server. i was there and went to 8 HL's and typed /who. not a soul anywhere. if it was any good they would not have to release a test server, they would not have to take months to tweak some clothes and items. it wouldnt take months to open a dam spy tree. ( OH! and what happened to the tree Zen Master? you guys remember that 1? i do!!)
when im at work, my boss cant tell me how to do my jobs, cuz he's too busy watching everyone and thinks he knows it all. i do the job everyday and know it like the back of my hand. Devs! the players know the game the best! listen to us! give us what we want in the game.. not what you want us to have!!!
/shout scrap CR 2.0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its garbge!!!
/shout expand the game! make it better!! not worse!!
#34900005000 02/09/2006 16:52:57 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
I'm honest, and I like CU 2.0. Now kiss my a** dirty.

SMILEY

>revolt_
#34900005171 02/12/2006 10:44:59 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
I have to completely disagree with you Red.  I like CR 2.0, and I can't wait until it hits live.  I don't think it sucks at all.  And there is no boot-licking going on here.  For example, I've complained about the non-blackness of black clothes (which is finally being fixed, fortunately), the removal of code recipes way back in beta, and the mission timers implemented shortly after release.  Believe me, if I thought CR 2.0 sucked, I'd definitely say so.  Obviously, it's not perfect, but it's a huge improvement over the current combat system.  We have more choices.  Combat is less linear.  Our stats actually matter, and clothing matters less.  All good things.  Furthermore, I don't think we're going to lose 50% of the playerbase when this hits live.  It will certainly be an adjustment for people who haven't tested, but I think most people will like it right off the bat and will love it once they get used to it.  I don't know why other people haven't been testing, but I've simply been far too busy in RL to play or test at all.  Once things settle down here, I'll be back testing, and I'll probably take a stab at writing an updated version of this guide.
#34900005199 02/13/2006 02:39:55 Re: Combat Rebalance 2.0 for Dummies
The reason many people are not on the test server is because 1, people stick with what they know (old system as you put it) and 2, there is no clear turnaround time on when bugs can be fixed, the live server works better currently than the test server, so people go to where it won't crash and their special moves actually activate.

I consider myself amongst the people SMILEY so I can tell you I get on the test server for about an hour or so every other day to try things out, get bored at getting my *CENSORED* kicked by mobs and then log back on the live server for some rp or combat i can win at.


"The heart never speaks, but you must listen to it to know."
-The Oracle