Outfit Shell

50 posts · 2005-12-24 04:06:39 to 2008-10-20 23:23:25

#34700000129 12/24/2005 04:06:39 Outfit Shell

Was posted in general forums but now that we have a development forum it was only fitting to discuss here.


To bring some diversity to this game, how about adding a secondary outfit panel in your inventory so a player can wear whatever they want over their buffed items and just disable buffs for the outfit shell to keep players from stacking buffs.



Something needs to be done... together we look like a bunch a freaken garbagepal kids. Everyone dressed alike in pvp for the sake of survival is one of the biggest problems in this game and totally kills your individuality.


it's probably the easiest idea to impliment compared to the tons of other complex ideas such as stripping clothing buffs etc..


Seeing how we were able to fight in our halloween masks during the halloween event makes it even more possible that it can be done.


We can hide the ugly buffed clothing without the devs having to change them. So what i did is post a step-by-step of what it could be like:


Step 1 - Dirty Ingus - In your typical crap-ugly buffed attire for the sake of survival:




Step 2 - Ingus opens the outfit shell panel to hide his ugly buffed clothes




Step 3 - Ingus is now dressed to kill and actually looks like someone that inhabits the matrix




Everyone's buffed rare items remain intact, we're gaining style and not losing a thing.


If the devs pulled off us wearing disguises during the halloween event... whats not to stop from creating an outfit shell to hide the ugly stuff?
#34700000130 12/24/2005 04:12:50 Re: Outfit Shell
I'll address this here as well then:

If the devs pulled off us wearing disguises during the halloween
event... whats not to stop from creating an outfit shell to hide the
ugly stuff?


A disguise is one object. Running off of the pre-existing spy tree
based disguise system. It is not a disguise made up of mix and match
components which the outfit shell would be. So this is not as easy to
do as making a new disguise. So while an idea that I like, I'm going
to have cite the same database issues that hinder other coding
changes. Right now each character takes up (in a basic database set up)
one row in a table for their clothing. With this outfit shell, that's
a whole new row, nay, a whole new table. Now this new table would store
the item that we want to wear over the old clothes (but this is not
a disguise so it cannot use the disguise system).

So we have our new table and row for "outfit shells", now we need a front
end designed that allows us to change them - this is one of the easy
things to do. But now, in the background again, we need a system that
can constantly check which clothing is in which box - normal or outfit
shell, and then it needs a way to disable the buffs. Now, currently
clothing is directly linked to its buffs, so to disable them,
we're probably looking at a routine loop that is running constantly (or
in its simplest - possibly open to exploits form - once every time
a new item is placed in) that checks said item in outfit shell and strips
it's buffs.

To be honest, I don't see this being an such an easy thing to do with the
current way clothes are set up. But then, lets wait and see what the CR
does to the need for buffed clothes, we may just find out that such
things as an outfit shell are no longer needed...
#34700000157 12/24/2005 09:59:10 Re: Outfit Shell
It's a nice idea Inugss, but I think what would be better is for them
to finally just revamp coding altogether.  They could allow a
certain number of slots per clothing item, and would let us put what
buffs we want  (within reason of course) on those clothes.

#34700000161 12/24/2005 11:53:45 Re: Outfit Shell
Sweet idea, Ingus.


I had an idea I shared about coding a while back, but can't find the link to it. Basically, my idea stated that if coding got a re-vamp I'd like to see these features. Each article of clothing has a template. Ex: t-shirt, vest/tie combo, tam duster, shorts boots, etc. Players can add a custom color using windows color scheme. If you can use WMP for the radio, why not color scheme?


Each template has a memory capicity, similar to the memory for abilities. You can only have X number of abilities loaded at one time, so the article of clothing can only have X number of buffs.


Each buffs has a memory cost. Dodge ranged and viral deflectio would probably have a higher memory cost, for obvious reasons.


Each item has a certain number of "charges" where you can change the buffs. Once the charges are spent, the shirt stays as is.


Not to mention, when you open your Code Analyzer Tool, you would be able to sort lists more specifically; by color, buff, difficulty, minimum character lvl, etc. Or even a search bar. I hate when I can't find that mud orange jacket my friend wants me to code for her. I'll just run a search for "Orange Pants" and my options are minimal.


#34700000174 12/24/2005 16:41:01 Re: Outfit Shell
I love the outfit shell idea, Inguss. Here is why; Its a great alternative to extracting buffs from clothing, which i imagen could be a bit difficult and time consuming for the developers. /Highfive
#34700000235 12/26/2005 08:10:35 Re: Outfit Shell
Much needed!
#34700000859 01/04/2006 05:31:29 Re: Outfit Shell


I'm not really sure as to the method used to construct clothing objects but if it's anything like other object-based games (Diablo 1 & 2 for example) then there is a couple of databases;


Item Buffs list:


  • Buff Index (unique number to tell difference between objects with same name)

  • Buff Prefix Name(s)

  • Buff Postfix Name(s)

  • Buff cost (good buffs cost more)

  • Buff effect

  • Buff chance (% chance to work)


Item Type List:


  • Item Index (unique number to tell difference between objects with same name)

  • Item Name (construction explained below)

  • Item Poly-Object

  • Skin Index (limited by poly-object foreign key - only skins for this object can be used)

  • Buff1..9 (list of up to 9 Buffs until sum of Buff costs <= Max Buff cost)

  • Item Initial Durability (a "local copy" of this is kept and decreases as items lose stability)

  • Item Initial Durability equivalent name (etherial - can't be repaired, torn/cracked/dented - low durability, etc...)

  • Item Creator's Name (name of person who coded this instance of this item - stored in object instance, not in template)

  • Prefab Item (if set to "1" then creator's name is fixed)

  • Code bits & Frags required (stuff needed to code this item - see my post in "Data Miner" as to special frags that could be obtained by decryption)
    http://mxoboards.station.sony.com/matrix/board/message?board.id=dev_roundtable&message.id=846

  • Item creation cost (cost to code in $info)


Item Skin List:


  • Skin Index (unique number to tell difference between objects with same name)

  • Item Poly-Object (foreign key, specifies which poly-object this is for)

  • Skin Name

  • Skin Colour Name

  • Skin Texture (the "picture" that gets wrapped on an object)

  • Skin Icon (the picture that shows up on the hotbar/inventory)


*Item Name = [Item Creator] [Item Initial Durability equivalent name] [Skin Colour Name] [most costly buff prefix] [Skin Name] of [2nd most costly buff postfix]


EG:

phiAU's tattered orange arbalest's berret of speed
(coded by phiAU, low durability, orange, VT bonus, berret, speed boost)


Flood's fine silk defender's bandanna of disease
(coded by Flood - indicating pre-fab item possibly only obtainable in mero missions, high durability, silk bandanna skin, physical damage resistance, bandanna, chance to cause code-rot)


This naming database formula is very good for making a great many items with a limited set of game data.


Of-course I've trimmed it down a little, leaving out things like singleton/can decompile/can create, but you should get the idea.


So back to the original topic... If we had a coding system to make objects this way then that would solve the need for an "appearance shell".

Yes I am a programmer... I will now take your questions.

Message Edited by phi on 01-04-2006 11:39 PM

Message Edited by phi on 01-04-2006 11:44 PM

#34700000881 01/04/2006 08:01:24 Re: Outfit Shell
Better idea, take the idea from KOTOR 1 & 2.



You get the good clothes and input the buffs yourself, like health
regen mesh etc. It would be better and we all would look as good as
ingus:smileytongue:

#34700000884 01/04/2006 08:13:10 Re: Outfit Shell
I explain the summary for my ideas here better

Message Edited by phi on 01-05-2006 02:16 AM

#34700000894 01/04/2006 08:48:41 Re: Outfit Shell
Well, as it has been said before,

Introducing a system where we can put our own buffs on cloths means the
entire item system would have to be redone, because the current system
has items that are unchangeable. Buffs are intact, and they either have
the ones they were designed with, or they don't.



The shell looks like a good idea, because if an item that can change
our appearance, (such as a disguise) can work, then creating a separate
gear window just for looks would seem to work in the way the disguise
does.



Granted, if they had to make that separate shell where we put the
clothing we want on it, then we have to create a disguise item that
will allow us to look good, but not take up our gear slots, that would
be fine too.



What if they made coders have the ability to create disguises, where a
trade window could open up, a player would place all their cool
clothing in the window, and the coder could create a disguise out of
it, to be worn just like the halloween disguises were?





This game's item creation system is so simplistic, we can't create much
of anything.  Each class should be able to "create" something that
helps them or another class, that other classes cannot create.



Here's a new topic for discussion.

Message Edited by {SoG}Esky on 01-04-2006 10:51 AM

#34700000960 01/04/2006 20:16:39 Re: Outfit Shell
Disguises are one peice.  Rarebit already said this would cause major problems.


The best way to fix the lack of clothing options would be to seperate the buffs.


Or stack the clothing that you want to see on top of the other making that one invisible... but using it's buffs.  We see this already with the overcoat or gi that completely hides all of your other clothing that you had on.


If they don't want to do the outfit shell, then they could have us stack them seperately and make it look like we are extracting the buffs.  It would mean that we really have two items on ourselves, but only one would show up.


Someone came up with a really detailed analysis on this, but he ultimately failed when a DEV said it wouldn't work.  I made some adjustments and never heard anything back from a DEV again.


Here it is again...


So.... I'm thinking how to make this work with the new information that Walrus has given us


What if... the object that is turned into tape, is still the same item of clothing.  The icon changes to a tape and the article of clothing becomes invisible.   Then you fake the system into stacking a new article of clothing on top of the old peice of clothing, aka tape.  Then, maybe in the same way you stack code bits together, when you move the article of clothing the other article of clothing moves with it too.  And also when you try to place a shirt with pant tape, it wouldn't stack because they aren't the same kind of item.


I hope Mr. Wildo doesn't mind, but regarding this new information, I think I can help his plan succeed.  I hope so anyway.  When I say "tape" I am talking about the item that is invisible and capable with stacking one other item of "clothing", which is the new article of clothing.


Step 1 - Turning buffed articles of clothing into "Tapes"

Archived image unavailable: BPRightClick.html



  • Propose adding a right click option on a buffed item to "convert" or "extract" the buffs.
    "You sucessfully extract the buffs from %item_name."

  • This will permanently hide the original clothing object and result in a tape.
    Background Coding: Change the clothing properties like stability points.  { item[visible] = 0; item[icon] = tape; }

  • This would be possible on any buffed item; including rare loot drops such as Greywolf coats, etc.

  • Since the article of clothing is still there, but invisible, the minimum level requirments will still be active.  { item[min_level] = 16; }
    "You do not meet the minimum level requirements to wear this."


  • Disable the ability to equip the tape even though it is a clothing item.  { item[equipable] = 0; }
    "This item is not equipable."


  • DEVELOPMENT NEEDS – Creating the right click option, changing the visibility properties of the item, changing the icon to the buff tape.


Step 2 - Stack buff tapes with clothing

Archived image unavailable: BPCodeTape.html



  • Once the item has been transformed into tape, it is viewed in your inventory as a tape buff. This tape can then be dragged and dropped onto a piece of clothing, or visa-versa. The clothing will then stack with the buffs from the tape.  The user will see the stacking as combining the two items together.
    "You sucessfully combine %clothing_name with the tape."

  • The tape stacks with the other article of clothing; both items move as one, yet there is no option to seperate. { if (A moves to 1,1) then (B moves to 1,1); }

  • If the tape is not of the same type of clothing as the the other article of clothing, an error window will popup. { if (item[class] != clothing[class]) then error; }
    "You cannot combine %item_class tape with this item."

  • The new article of clothing must be non-buffed. { function stacking ( if (clothing[buffed] == 1) then errorSMILEY }
    "You can only combine non-buffed items with tape."

  • Enable stacking by allowing the tape to stack one other item on top of it.  { item[stack] = 2; }

  • Only one article of clothing will stack with tape. { if (item[stack] > 2) then (error; place additional item backSMILEY }

  • Enable the ability to equip the tape with the article of clothing.  { item[equipable] = 1; }

  • DEVELOPMENT NEEDS – Enable stacking of the tape with an article of clothing, prevent the combination of two different items, inhibit the ability to seperate after stacking, add information codes for the system chat box


Step 3 - Post buff insertion considerations
Archived image unavailable: BPFinalItem.html



  • Change the icon of the "tape" to the item that was stacked with it. { item[icon] = clothing; }

  • On the character, the visible non-buffed article of clothing will replace the invisible tape item.  { clothing[visible] = 1; }

  • When the article of clothing is decompiled with the "tape", the user receives the recipe of the non-buffed item.  The "tape" is recycled when a decomile is attempted.  { function DECOMPILE( recycle item; decompile clothing); }
    "You sucessfully decompile %clothing_name."
    "You recycle buff tape of %item_name for %info $info."


  • If traded, the item will trade with both items together just like a stack of code bits.  If the tape item is untradeable, you still won't be able to trade it.  The properties of the tape will still stand except for the fact that it is invisible and the 3D icon will change.

  • The stability points will be calculated by the un-buffed article of clothing.

  • DEVELOPMENT NEEDS – On the fly ability to switch out the 3D icon, allow the clothing to replace the tape on the character.

I think I got it all, but of course I don't have the source code so I can't really guess how it could work.  Argh... just make MxO open source... lol

#34700001098 01/05/2006 15:39:50 Re: Outfit Shell
Better idea would eliminate buffed clothing and keep it matrix styled.

Imagine if your inventory has a section just for buffs. A total of 7 to be precise, solely for buffs (same number of clothing slots).

Your clothes would not be buffed, so you could wear what you like. Instead of purchasing buffed clothing, you would purchase buffs, for the buffs section.

Think about it, this is a far easier option. Easy solutions are more likely to be implemented.

Instead of getting buffed clothing from hideout bosses, they could drop a piece of cool looking clothing, and a buff code to be placed in the buffs section. Coders would still be able to create buffs and clothing, but would mean the same amount of buffs would be available as they were when attached to clothing. No horrible balancing effects are therefore not going to occur.

Now for the transition, have a 2 week period where the buffs on clothing items in the inventory are split, and the buffs could be stored. In this period you could select the buffs and clothing you want to keep, and delete the ones you didn't want.

All buffs are therefore just a program in your mind. None of this rubbish of certain clothes infuse the RSI with abilities. Its all supposed to be in your head, eg helicopter driving program.

Message Edited by HighDecibel on 01-05-2006 03:41 PM

#34700001120 01/05/2006 19:34:59 Re: Outfit Shell
Easily one of the best ideas on this forum... Guild War's "Hide Helmet"
and "Hide Cape" options were wonderful for the brief amount of time I
played.

#34700001128 01/06/2006 03:29:30 Re: Outfit Shell
It's always interesting seeing these things broken into a procedural list by non-programmers SMILEY
They can be amazingly complex sometimes. :manvery-happy:
I like the idea of separate the buffs from the clothes... Have them converted into sub-routines programs (as in "I need a crash course on hot-wiring a motorcycle" )
Programs can then be fixed with what they do.
eg:
  • Physics timer lag (boosts dodge ranged and increases running speed)
  • Projectile variable override and terminator loop(enhanced damage from firearms with damage over time)
  • Viral code-dispersal (area effect something)

you get the idea

Message Edited by phi on 01-06-200609:30 PM

#34700001169 01/07/2006 01:04:32 Re: Outfit Shell
There is a lot of discussion about coding in this thread. I mentioned revamping coding with ways to sort your codes and search for items.
MxOResource has done this! It is the greatest feature any fansite has offered so far.
mxoresource.com
#34700001170 01/07/2006 01:38:46 Re: Outfit Shell
Well I don't see why we can't create custom disguises (with the unbuffed clothes we like) that we wear as a tool o_O
#34700001223 01/08/2006 09:17:45 Re: Outfit Shell
I just wish the buffs were just like code/information in your brain. Like the helicopter program....Ok what if the buffs weres stored in an STM (short term memory) section. Studies show that a person can store 7 +or - 3. 7 being the average. Which is the same number of buffed clothing slots (female leggings dont have buffs).

Buffs would slowly break down like clothes do, (STM is volatile memory). Now you can wear what ever clothes look good, and have seperate buffs in STM...How can it get any simpler?

No crappy explanations that the clothes make you better either. Neo's clothes didnt aid him, he did everything himself.

Message Edited by HighDecibel on 01-08-200609:18 AM

Message Edited by HighDecibel on 01-08-200609:19 AM

#34700001276 01/08/2006 16:24:22 Re: Outfit Shell
Actually that makes sense and fixes all the problems with coding.  They should remove buff clothing and change it to buff codes.  I like the STM slots... I thought about it a long time ago but I never knew what to call it.  =)  Thanks for the name!
#34700001618 01/14/2006 13:26:46 Re: Outfit Shell
There ya go HighDecibel.  As I have been thinking of this idea too.  I decided to make a nice image for its proposal.
#34700001632 01/14/2006 18:13:35 Re: Outfit Shell
Cognoscente, that's a pretty good idea. Not too sure how workable it is,
but it is certainly a step in the right direction. Based on your suggestion
I've been thinking on a system that may or may not work as well. I'll
post it up when it is ready.

I just want to clear some things up, in your idea are proposing the extraction
of buffs from an item? Thus making a new buff item? How would you handle
buffed clothes in the normal slot? (with and without your STM buffs installed)
#34700001636 01/14/2006 19:40:39 Re: Outfit Shell
I had the same idea a good time ago, but much respect goes to Cognoscente for making a great image for it (literally)!

I really like it.
#34700001648 01/14/2006 22:46:31 Re: Outfit Shell
So all buffs would be removed from items but then there would be buff codes that were seperate and had thier own slots equal to the clothing slots, Right?  If I understand this correctly I have an interface idea.  It would be best to make a second page for the top section of the inventory, so you would switch pages and then put the buffs in the appropriate slots on your character. (I think that they way you drew it originally leaves the codes too small in the window)
#34700001663 01/15/2006 02:24:55 Re: Outfit Shell
I've always fully supported this and many of cogs other ideas and i aint gonna stop now  :smileyhappy:
#34700001674 01/15/2006 03:42:00 Re: Outfit Shell
Ok, finally typed up my suggestion for this idea. A bit of a long read, possibly difficult to understand so if need clarification, ask.
---

We all want to look different. We all need to take advantage of enhanced clothing. The two do not currently go together. We want to be able to move enhancements from one clothing item to another but the current MXO clothing database structure is not set up for this.

While the simple solution to most would be to change the database structure, it simply isn’t that easy. It would need not only a full redesign of the database, but also that of the items stored, the system used to store the items and the one used to extract the item information from the database. It's mammoth task that simply, is too much hassle at this time.

So we need an alternative. We need a system that ideally only changes the way the data stored in the database is used. One that requires as little coding, interface designing and model icon/object redesigning as possible. To better understand why, lets have a look at how the currently system probably works (remember this is all guess work as only the developers actually know what system they use).

So lets just say for the sake of this suggestion that the items are stored in the database thus:
-- One table deals with the general clothing information:
1 ID number
2 Item_name
3 Model_number
4 Enhancements
5 Min_level
6 Code_difficulty
7 Decompile
8 Trade

[Notes: 1 would be a auto incrementing value it is the unique identifier to ensure the table works correctly. 3 is a reference number, it most likely points to another table that actually contains the information such as the location of the image files to render on screen. 7 and 8 are most likely simple 1s and 0s. 1 for yes, 0 for no as to whether we can decompile or trade.]

It is number 4 that interests us. This is either a reference number to a separate table storing the enhancement information, or it directly contains the enhancement information. As we don't know which, this suggestion will work on the based on both possibilities.

-- Another table holds the information of currently equipped items
1 ID number
2 User_id
3 Hats
4 Glasses
5 Shirts
6 Outerwear
7 Gloves
8 Pants
9 Footwear
10 Stockings

[Note: Again 1 is only for the database to ensure no duplicates. 2 is the ID number assigned to our characters upon creation. 3 to 10 store the item numbers of the equipped clothing so the correct information is extracted to determine clothing enhancements and so forth.]

How is this information used? Again we can only guess. There are a several possibilities. Lets assume something like the following: Every time we open up the Status panel a quick database enquiry is performed to determine which enhanced clothing we are wearing, returns the name of the clothing and the enhancement information. This can then be used by that part of the game to display the information to us. When we start combat or use any ability, a similar database query is performed, the same information returned and the enhancement information put to use by that part of the game if it is relevant. Finally the same checks are done when open up the inventory window, change an item of clothing (via inventory window or hotbar) and perhaps one final check is done at the time stability loss is determined. So from that, we know that the information for the 8 clothing slots (7 for males) is used by a lot of areas in the game thus we need to minimise the changes made to ensure as little recoding of those parts of the game as possible.

If there really is a table keeping track of currently equipped items then this makes altering the system easier. If not, this and other suggestions may not be feasible.

So lets get down to business, this suggestion is simple. Create a new table one that mimics the current one (that hopefully exists) for equipped clothing slots. Perhaps looking something like this:

-- Proposed table for enhancement use
1 ID number
2 User_id
3 Hats
4 Glasses
5 Shirts
6 Outerwear
7 Gloves
8 Pants
9 Footwear
10 Stockings

[As you can see, it's a direct mirror of the previous one thus it minimises changes to the current database and the data is stored and extracted from it.]

Where the current checks are in the game for determining which clothes are worn, a new sub check is placed. This will perform the following check:

A - Determine which "enhancement slots" are in use.
For the slots in use:
B - Fetch the enhancement information for items in those slots.
C - Ignore the fetched enhancement information for clothing in the corresponding slots in the inventory window.
D – Apply enhancements to whatever part of the game is requesting them.
For slots not in use:
E – Fetch enhancement information for clothing in the corresponding slots in the inventory window.
F – Apply enhancements to whatever part of the game is requesting them.

For the front end, refer to the included image:

Archived image unavailable: invent.html

There is a new button in the Inventory panel (green code) just under the footwear slot. Clicking on this (or using it's hotkey – user configurable) opens up one of the two proposed "RSI Enhancement" windows. The top left window – prototype one – is probably a poor choice for implementation it's a direct mirror of the inventory one, but it has large empty space no longer of use. (Could cause unnecessary graphical slow down). The bottom left window – prototype two – is the preferred window. It’s based on the inventory storage slots, thus it is smaller. Each of the eight slots is clearly marked to show which clothing item fits where.

The enhancements remain on the current clothing items. But that can now be equipped in this new window. This ensures two main things:

-- We know what enhancements are going where (as the current items are being used as reference points)
-- We know we can only equip one type of each item enhancement (only one shirt etc.)

The appearance of our RSI is still determined in the current way, based on the clothing in our inventory clothing slots so that part of the game coding need not change. Clothing placed in the RSI Enhancement slots will not affect our appearance, only the information regarding their enhancements is fetched from the pre-existing database tables and applied in the current manner.

So the only things that are needed to be done for implementation of this system is as follows:

1 create a new table to store the RSI Enhancement equipped item information. (model on existing equipped clothing item table)
2 Modify the current inventory window – add a new button to open the RSI Enhancement window
3 Create the RSI Enhancement window
4 Apply the correct code routines to determine which equipped slots (clothing or RSI Enhancement) to apply the enhanced clothing information from.
5 Create a hot key to open up the RSI Enhancement window [optional]

This should be all that is needed. Of course, the actual setup of the system in use may not be compatible with this suggestion.
#34700001745 01/16/2006 02:23:16 Re: Outfit Shell

    Rarebit Wrote:
    One thing I'm not overly fond of in your diagram (very nicely presented, though) is the miniature size of the memory slots you have there. I think those are too small to be usable. We'd probably have to break the socket interface out into its own panel.

    Another issue is the naming of the socket buff items. If they're all just named after their slot, then you have an inventory full of items that all look pretty much the same, and you have to mouse over them and scrutinize their stats to tell them apart, instead of being able to do so by just reading their name. So they'd still need unique names.

    Then the question is, for the sake of familiarity, do we just turn the current buffed clothing items into legacy socket items, keeping the old names that everyone is used to, or do we spend a lot of time giving them all new names, and make people learn what each item is all over again?

    #34700001757 01/16/2006 05:12:37 Re: Outfit Shell
    we need more space... +)
    #34700008097 06/29/2006 12:15:51 Re: Outfit Shell
    still hoping for this.
    #34700008131 07/01/2006 20:06:59 Re: Outfit Shell





    Cognoscente wrote:

    Disguises are one peice.  Rarebit already said this would cause major problems.


    The best way to fix the lack of clothing options would be to seperate the buffs.


    Or stack the clothing that you want to see on top of the other making that one invisible... but using it's buffs.  We see this already with the overcoat or gi that completely hides all of your other clothing that you had on.


    If they don't want to do the outfit shell, then they could have us stack them seperately and make it look like we are extracting the buffs.  It would mean that we really have two items on ourselves, but only one would show up.


    Someone came up with a really detailed analysis on this, but he ultimately failed when a DEV said it wouldn't work.  I made some adjustments and never heard anything back from a DEV again.


    Here it is again...


    So.... I'm thinking how to make this work with the new information that Walrus has given us


    What if... the object that is turned into tape, is still the same item of clothing.  The icon changes to a tape and the article of clothing becomes invisible.   Then you fake the system into stacking a new article of clothing on top of the old peice of clothing, aka tape.  Then, maybe in the same way you stack code bits together, when you move the article of clothing the other article of clothing moves with it too.  And also when you try to place a shirt with pant tape, it wouldn't stack because they aren't the same kind of item.


    I hope Mr. Wildo doesn't mind, but regarding this new information, I think I can help his plan succeed.  I hope so anyway.  When I say "tape" I am talking about the item that is invisible and capable with stacking one other item of "clothing", which is the new article of clothing.


    Step 1 - Turning buffed articles of clothing into "Tapes"

    Archived image unavailable: BPRightClick.html



    • Propose adding a right click option on a buffed item to "convert" or "extract" the buffs.
      "You sucessfully extract the buffs from %item_name."

    • This will permanently hide the original clothing object and result in a tape.
      Background Coding: Change the clothing properties like stability points.  { item[visible] = 0; item[icon] = tape; }

    • This would be possible on any buffed item; including rare loot drops such as Greywolf coats, etc.

    • Since the article of clothing is still there, but invisible, the minimum level requirments will still be active.  { item[min_level] = 16; }
      "You do not meet the minimum level requirements to wear this."


    • Disable the ability to equip the tape even though it is a clothing item.  { item[equipable] = 0; }
      "This item is not equipable."


    • DEVELOPMENT NEEDS – Creating the right click option, changing the visibility properties of the item, changing the icon to the buff tape.


    Step 2 - Stack buff tapes with clothing

    Archived image unavailable: BPCodeTape.html



    • Once the item has been transformed into tape, it is viewed in your inventory as a tape buff. This tape can then be dragged and dropped onto a piece of clothing, or visa-versa. The clothing will then stack with the buffs from the tape.  The user will see the stacking as combining the two items together.
      "You sucessfully combine %clothing_name with the tape."

    • The tape stacks with the other article of clothing; both items move as one, yet there is no option to seperate. { if (A moves to 1,1) then (B moves to 1,1); }

    • If the tape is not of the same type of clothing as the the other article of clothing, an error window will popup. { if (item[class] != clothing[class]) then error; }
      "You cannot combine %item_class tape with this item."

    • The new article of clothing must be non-buffed. { function stacking ( if (clothing[buffed] == 1) then errorSMILEY }
      "You can only combine non-buffed items with tape."

    • Enable stacking by allowing the tape to stack one other item on top of it.  { item[stack] = 2; }

    • Only one article of clothing will stack with tape. { if (item[stack] > 2) then (error; place additional item backSMILEY }

    • Enable the ability to equip the tape with the article of clothing.  { item[equipable] = 1; }

    • DEVELOPMENT NEEDS – Enable stacking of the tape with an article of clothing, prevent the combination of two different items, inhibit the ability to seperate after stacking, add information codes for the system chat box


    Step 3 - Post buff insertion considerations
    Archived image unavailable: BPFinalItem.html



    • Change the icon of the "tape" to the item that was stacked with it. { item[icon] = clothing; }

    • On the character, the visible non-buffed article of clothing will replace the invisible tape item.  { clothing[visible] = 1; }

    • When the article of clothing is decompiled with the "tape", the user receives the recipe of the non-buffed item.  The "tape" is recycled when a decomile is attempted.  { function DECOMPILE( recycle item; decompile clothing); }
      "You sucessfully decompile %clothing_name."
      "You recycle buff tape of %item_name for %info $info."


    • If traded, the item will trade with both items together just like a stack of code bits.  If the tape item is untradeable, you still won't be able to trade it.  The properties of the tape will still stand except for the fact that it is invisible and the 3D icon will change.

    • The stability points will be calculated by the un-buffed article of clothing.

    • DEVELOPMENT NEEDS – On the fly ability to switch out the 3D icon, allow the clothing to replace the tape on the character.

    I think I got it all, but of course I don't have the source code so I can't really guess how it could work.  Argh... just make MxO open source... lol





    OMG OMG SWG NOOB!! LOL mabe not a noob but still the TAPE NO!!!! NOT THE TAPES FROM SWG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    #34700008186 07/03/2006 15:54:38 Re: Outfit Shell
    To me this idea is no longer needed since CR2.0 kinda fixed the need to be unfasionable to be any good problem.
    #34700008202 07/03/2006 23:21:39 Re: Outfit Shell


    cloudwol wrote:
    To me this idea is no longer needed since CR2.0 kinda fixed the need to be unfasionable to be any good problem.

    QFT!

    (not spam but I was just gonna post the same thing)
    #34700008217 07/04/2006 10:17:08 Re: Outfit Shell





    cloudwol wrote:

    To me this idea is no longer needed since CR2.0 kinda fixed the need to be unfasionable to be any good problem.





    opinions such as that can be expected coming from players from non hostile servers because when you're not flagged up you can dress how you want SMILEY


    #34700008238 07/04/2006 14:08:23 Re: Outfit Shell





    Inguss wrote:






    cloudwol wrote:

    To me this idea is no longer needed since CR2.0 kinda fixed the need to be unfasionable to be any good problem.





    opinions such as that can be expected coming from players from non hostile servers because when you're not flagged up you can dress how you want SMILEY








    Well pretty much 90% of females wear a catsuit which covers everything else.... no variety.


       SMILEY


      There is significantly more variety in male RSI's, but in the end there are 'best' enhanced versions which crop up a lot.  Still, I'd rather they spent the time on org abils etc etc etc.

    #34700008242 07/04/2006 17:42:14 Re: Outfit Shell





    cloudwol wrote:

    To me this idea is no longer needed since CR2.0 kinda fixed the need to be unfasionable to be any good problem.





    I took the red pill after CR2, so have no idea what it was like before the revision... but, IMO, we still need this. The best buffed jacket I have, for example, is basically a down jacket.


    1) The Matrix wasn't based on Sweden in the winter... (no offense to Swedes, I just used that as an example). Point is, wrong climate, wrong decade-- we're supposed to be in the 1990's, remember?


    2) Who the heck would have an RSI based on a down jacket? The look of clothing in the Matrix has been pretty well established in the movies. I dunno about anyone else, but that's the kind of look I want in-game.


    3) Yet, as long is there's buffed clothing, I gotta wear the best-buffed stuff in my wardrobe. I need that extra edge to increase my chance of survival as I move into tougher neighborhoods.


    So yeah, I'd really love it if buffs were seperated from clothing. That makes much more sense in the Matrix world anyway. RSI has nothing to do with giving you powers... if anything, one's RSI changes as the result of gaining confidence in one's powers. The RSI should reflect this inner change, not contradict it.


    Please, Devs, don't give up on this idea... I don't think the players will.

    #34700008492 07/11/2006 11:07:39 Re: Outfit Shell
    The latest Cryptos event at Vector might be a work around the "outfit shell" our Commander Ingus has suggested.
    #34700008566 07/12/2006 13:53:33 Re: Outfit Shell

    this IS somthing that is very much needed.  And i dont want to hear "It woudl be to much work for the devs to do"   That bull you all know it.



    THE TRUTH IS OUT


    Mxo is not a big money maker for SOE and therfor the time and effort put into the game is at a minimum.


    It sux that the online game that actually has REAL fans (besides SWG because everyone likes star wars) gets the cold shoulder.

    #34700008570 07/12/2006 15:41:37 Re: Outfit Shell
    Hrm, even with CR2.0 I still notice players wearing very similar clothing because of buffs.

    RP is a tad annoying, I have to make a quick change into ugly clothes to stand any chance in a fight, so I lose my lovely suit for the duration.

    An outfit shell which shows other clothing with the buffs removed would be purely awesome. Everyone would look pretty good because they'd be wearing exactly what they want.
    #34700008588 07/13/2006 03:48:46 Re: Outfit Shell

    Clothing variety under cr2 is as poor if not worse than before, although in fairness some of the ugliest stuff has been relegated to its rightful place.


    I wonder if it might be possible to make the act of 'dressing' in game as opposed to in the LA different....ie in the LA clothes pass their buffs to the rsi but outside only the visual representation of the clothes changes leaving pre-established buff in place? could this be achieved by turing the 'buff engine' on and off depending on your location?
    #34700008597 07/13/2006 07:54:43 Re: Outfit Shell


    Tytanya_MxO wrote:

    Clothing variety under cr2 is as poor if not worse than before, although in fairness some of the ugliest stuff has been relegated to its rightful place.


    I wonder if it might be possible to make the act of 'dressing' in game as opposed to in the LA different....ie in the LA clothes pass their buffs to the rsi but outside only the visual representation of the clothes changes leaving pre-established buff in place? could this be achieved by turing the 'buff engine' on and off depending on your location?


    Goes without say, great idea.

    PM Rarebit....STAT!!!!!!  :smileytongue:
    #34700008600 07/13/2006 09:39:23 Re: Outfit Shell
    Lets not jimi rig this, and do it right...

    Coders need to be able to specify buffs on what they make... Give us that functionality, and the problem is resolved.

    Something similair to that tape idea will work. It's just a matter of changing the system.
    #34700008626 07/14/2006 06:30:35 Re: Outfit Shell


    LiquidZ wrote:
    Lets not jimi rig this, and do it right...

    Coders need to be able to specify buffs on what they make... Give us that functionality, and the problem is resolved.

    Something similair to that tape idea will work. It's just a matter of changing the system.


    Agreed..
    I'm new here but it is obvious that style and functionality cannot go
    together without a change. Also I agree with Liquidz that buffs should
    be stripped and then applied to "custom code" by coders for several
    reasons.



    1) Buffs being applied as a seperate entity remove the need to find
    specific articles of clothing to complete a set. What I mean is that in
    terms of gamplay the hunt is over, It's no fun anymore finding or
    creating or buying that hat that looks good and has the buffs you need.



    2) Creating a strip/add to normal clothing/code/compile production
    chain enables coders to play a more social role in MXO... Now other
    players will seek out coders to apply their favourite buff to clothing
    that fits their style better.



    3) Coders have incentive to aquire a wealthy "pattern library" and also can add custom designs to their repetoire.



    4) At a basic level the idea of custom coding is much more inline with
    the RP element of MXO (allthough this point refers to the entire
    thread).



    Weapons might be a problem as you would just add your favourite buff to
    every new level of weapon you aquire and not have to wait and find the
    enhanced version.



    Also i believe for simplicity's sake buffs should not be mixed and
    matched... you should only be able to add the exact set of bonuses you
    stripped from another article of clothing to your new design.



    It's not a big step.. just 1 new window for coders and the original
    system can stay in place... I think I'm speaking for alot of people
    when I say this right?
    #34700008627 07/14/2006 06:33:27 Re: Outfit Shell
    An afterthought:



    You wouldn't nessisarily need to add a buff stripping system. If an
    article of clothing exists in your inventory that has a buff u want on
    it then that buff is available when you go to craft new clothing.



    :smileyindifferent:

    #34700008628 07/14/2006 07:14:07 Re: Outfit Shell


    Cykodelik wrote:


    LiquidZ wrote:
    Lets not jimi rig this, and do it right...

    Coders need to be able to specify buffs on what they make... Give us that functionality, and the problem is resolved.

    Something similair to that tape idea will work. It's just a matter of changing the system.


    Agreed..
    I'm new here but it is obvious that style and functionality cannot go
    together without a change. Also I agree with Liquidz that buffs should
    be stripped and then applied to "custom code" by coders for several
    reasons.



    1) Buffs being applied as a seperate entity remove the need to find
    specific articles of clothing to complete a set. What I mean is that in
    terms of gamplay the hunt is over, It's no fun anymore finding or
    creating or buying that hat that looks good and has the buffs you need.



    2) Creating a strip/add to normal clothing/code/compile production
    chain enables coders to play a more social role in MXO... Now other
    players will seek out coders to apply their favourite buff to clothing
    that fits their style better.



    3) Coders have incentive to aquire a wealthy "pattern library" and also can add custom designs to their repetoire.



    4) At a basic level the idea of custom coding is much more inline with
    the RP element of MXO (allthough this point refers to the entire
    thread).



    Weapons might be a problem as you would just add your favourite buff to
    every new level of weapon you aquire and not have to wait and find the
    enhanced version.



    Also i believe for simplicity's sake buffs should not be mixed and
    matched... you should only be able to add the exact set of bonuses you
    stripped from another article of clothing to your new design.



    It's not a big step.. just 1 new window for coders and the original
    system can stay in place... I think I'm speaking for alot of people
    when I say this right?


    AGREE!!!!

    but....I believe (I could be wrong) the "buff stripping" that keeps getting tossed around has been stated to be a logistical nightmare on both the coding (actual MxO game code) and balance side.  Again I could be talking out of my arse.

    At the minimum, I would like the idea of loading up your clothes in the LA and thus locking in your buffs to be explored.  Then outside the LA we could use whatever clothes we want. 

    The only added feature to this idea I would add is to allow us to macro different clothing loadouts like we do with abilities i.e. /savelo kungfu, but /saveclths ma.

    Being on Vector, I have many different macro clothes combos I use based on the battle at hand and tend to change a lot on the fly.
    #34700008632 07/14/2006 09:50:54 Re: Outfit Shell
    I really do not see how this would be hard to do, requires alot of work yes, but difficulty wise, it should be easy.

    Devs create the following tables:

    BaseClothing
    ---------------------
    ClothingID
    Type
    Gender
    Minimumlvl
    Mesh
    etc.

    BaseBuffs
    ----------------------
    BuffID
    Type
    Name
    Amount
    Minimumlvl
    etc.

    PlayerThreads
    ------------------------
    PlayerClothingID
    PlayerID
    ClothingID
    Purity
    Stability

    PlayerThreadBuffs
    -------------------------
    PlayerBuffID
    PlayerClothingID
    BuffID

    This information is not hard to store, and should'nt be hard to pull out either...

    Devs create a base set of buffs, base set of clothes.

    Devs can create enhanced clothes just like players can, just add database entries... make a Table "WorldClothingDrops" and whammo.

    The hardest part of this is changing the code to stop referencing built in types (which I assume they are doing) and be smart enough to use dynamic types.

    Remember the more dynamic you make your stuff the more scalable and flexible it is....
    #34700008651 07/15/2006 06:12:19 Re: Outfit Shell
    I would love to see a full and comprehensive solution to this issue BUT I think we have to be realistic and consider the amount of dev time involved....90% of the functionality and variety we seek can be achieved in a simpler manner, personally I would sacrifice that other 10% just to get it done.


    As regards my earlier suggestion trey reverse the idea make it so the buff engine only records buff changes outside the LA and allows you to dress without affecting buffs in the LA...all your macros will still apply.
    #34700008697 07/16/2006 22:32:52 Re: Outfit Shell
    I don't know what you guys are talking about....nobody really wears the same clothes in CR2 IMO
    #34700008707 07/17/2006 07:43:14 Re: Outfit Shell
    In the current system, every item is a single entry in the database, and there are thousands .. maybe 10,000+ items I think.
    In order for a "good" coding system, they would need to be broken down into their component parts.

    This consitutes a total redesign of the database, a total redesign of EVERY clothing item in the game, and some way of re-issuing all the new items (because you couldn't convert, the way the items are constructed are so totally different)

    I've wanted this since beta, but the task of it is absolutely enormous, probably bigger that CR2.0. There's no time, development staff or money to do it.
    #34700008714 07/17/2006 10:31:55 Re: Outfit Shell


    Coer wrote:
    In the current system, every item is a single entry in the database, and there are thousands .. maybe 10,000+ items I think.
    In order for a "good" coding system, they would need to be broken down into their component parts.

    This consitutes a total redesign of the database, a total redesign of EVERY clothing item in the game, and some way of re-issuing all the new items (because you couldn't convert, the way the items are constructed are so totally different)

    I've wanted this since beta, but the task of it is absolutely enormous, probably bigger that CR2.0. There's no time, development staff or money to do it.


    Actually the largest part is the manual conversion, in the process of converting the items you setup a ClothingConvert table to keep track of the old item ID and the new ID. Once the conversion is complete a simple job is run to replace all OldItemID X items with NewClothingID X values. It's not too hard, the problem is just raw time to convert the items to the new system.

    Hire a few temps to do it and your set, have the mxo staff write the converter and the new engine.
    #34700008719 07/17/2006 10:55:34 Re: Outfit Shell


    thats a great idea.. yesterday i go a shirt with some great ballistic (gun) defence. only problem is that it looked lke a hobo had worn it for years, lol.


    its a great idea to keep your fashion without getting pwnd lol

    Message Edited by Modulator on 07.17.2006 11:58 AM

    #34700008735 07/18/2006 00:14:12 Re: Outfit Shell


    This thread delivers. It should NOT be ignored. Do whatever you can in your power to get as many people here for support! We wanna look casual while kicking **bleep** at the same time.


    IMO, the best idea in here was the STM programming, in which buffs would be removed from clothes completely, and instead put in as programs that would load up in a window (slots equilivent to clothing slot maximum). Then you would be able to load your buff programs, then click a confirm button, then bam, buffs loaded. (Like previous have stated, this would be more Matrix-y as you are loading programs to further enhance your RSI, rather than equipping an item which grants buffs magically, without an explanation that can be canon enough to work with the Matrix.)


    This STM idea would make this much better for RSI customization, not to mention, fit in with Matrix canon alot better.


    Git 'er done! This could be done easily, from what i've seen, the devs here at MxO are capable of more than they think, and we take that for granted by not giving them enough logical and plausible suggestions, THIS being one of them!


    Rarebit, you gotta talk to SOE and the others about this idea! /shakefist

    Message Edited by KaitouHayashi on 07.18.2006 01:15 AM

    #36300512553 10/20/2008 23:23:25 Re:Outfit Shell
    *AHEM*

    (display clothing and buff clothing)