How did the Machines...

I'm a virtual Matrix newbie; my knowledge is limited to the three movies and I've only seen them a couple of times. 



My question is...how did the Machines find Zion?  They didn't get
the coords from Morpheus, right?  They rescued him before
that. 

they were access codes to get into zion.  They found it cause they
dug down.  And new it was there, cause they have done it before.

Six times, to be precise. In fact, I think the Machines built Zion.

I see.  Thanks for the answers.

The only information they were trying to get from Morpheus was how to access the Zion Mainframe, which would've allowed the Machines to directly access all of Zion's systems and effectively wipe them out with no resistance.

Hmm, that's an interesting question, yes there were several versions of
Zion, but who'se to say that they were all built in the same place. My
guess would be that they had found it, but were unable to create a
force big enough to assault Zion fully... or at least decided not to
untill the program of the One was fulfilled.

They found Zion because the One before Neo had species preservation instead of self preservation as their emotional goal, so they picked the wrong door.

Zion has always been created and populated by Machine will.

machines are very efficient in destroying Zion after they did 6 times in earlier matrix versions. So they precisely know where to find the last city of humans being.

I doubt that Zion has been built in different places in the earlier matrix versions - as 6 women and 16 men (something like that) are taken out of the Matrix after the One´s choice as the architect explains.

Message Edited by Uyanik on 05-15-2006 10:20 AM

That's a valid point, Illyria, but Smith may very well have had other reasons.



  He and his fellow agents could even have been specifically designed
to attempt to destroy Zion without the One existing.  The One was,
after all, only a method of control, and not an efficient one, at that
- each incarnation required a complete destruction and rebuild of a
city, reinitialization of the Matrix, and while the redpill'd batteries
were already valueless, the cost of destroying them couldn't have been
cheap.  The Architect's speech doesn't suggest that he finds the Oracle's solution to be the most elegant, that's for sure.  A quarter of a million Sentinels sure doesn't sound like petty
cash, and I'm sure they'd be quite happy for anything that would increase efficiency.



  Or there could be other reasons.  I mean, we know that even during
the first film and possibly before, he was acting outside of the
normals of other Agents - the scene where he removed his earpiece and
ranted against humanity was a decent clue that something was a little
'loose' in there.  He may have already been attempting to dislodge the
Machine's system even before he was overwritten by Neo.


Machines do have emotions, though, almost as a part of the very backdrop of the Matrix.  The B1-66-ER comic points out a sense of self-preservation was inherent to many machines quite early in development.  The Oracle, while manipulative, certainly does seem content with a job well done in some cases, or unhappy when bad things (like, say, a loose killcode for her shell) happen.  The program couple and their 'child' in the second movie (and the end of the third) seem to show a good deal of emotion, nearly human-like.  The Dues Ex Machina, at the end of the third movie, shows a good bit of anger tinged with fear.

i didnt bother to read to long posts so i dont know if this has been answered or not

people kept saying there were several "versions" of zion

just like there were several versions of the matrix

could zion be another simulation?

a matrix inside a matrix?

thoughts...

---

Imaximus wrote:

the machines didnt want the accesscodes to the zion mainframe,  Smith did,  Smith hated humanity and wanted to wipe them out. The machines as a whole dont hate anything because as a whole they are emotionless, they only want to keep zion in check  in order to prolong thier current way of life which of course is useing the matrix as a "prison" (as some call it) for humans in order to use thier bio-electricty for power.

Smith had is own goals, he was one of the few exceptions to all machine programs, he developed feelings. Just to bad he developed the bad ones. Hate and jealousy.

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I will be disinclined to agree. They have emotions, that is the nature of AI, they eventually are founded. Rhama Kandra (sp?) proved that much and so did his wife. The fact he talked of love, karma, and many other things, though calling them just words, understood their meaning to him. His wife, was also very defensive, which demonstrated love as well. Smith had hate, alot fo it boiled down deeply, and it was evident that Dues Ex Machina(sp?) hated humans as well (look how he treated Neo when he offered him his services). Neo was lucky he played the right card at that moment.

So the machines do feel, they have emotions. If they are like humans, I can't say, but their emotions are also covered with logic and code, which dictates their actions as well.

The architect, albeit not as openly, also demonstrated emotions. He stated he was displeased with his failure, which would clearly be an emotional response, while he also showed his bit of contempt for humans as well, when said, point blankly to the Oracle, "what do you think I am? Human?"

---

Gattsuru wrote:
That's a valid point, Illyria, but Smith may very well have had other reasons.



  He and his fellow agents could even have been specifically designed
to attempt to destroy Zion without the One existing.  The One was,
after all, only a method of control, and not an efficient one, at that
- each incarnation required a complete destruction and rebuild of a
city, reinitialization of the Matrix, and while the redpill'd batteries
were already valueless, the cost of destroying them couldn't have been
cheap.  The Architect's speech doesn't suggest that he finds the Oracle's solution to be the most elegant, that's for sure.  A quarter of a million Sentinels sure doesn't sound like petty
cash, and I'm sure they'd be quite happy for anything that would increase efficiency.



  Or there could be other reasons.  I mean, we know that even during
the first film and possibly before, he was acting outside of the
normals of other Agents - the scene where he removed his earpiece and
ranted against humanity was a decent clue that something was a little
'loose' in there.  He may have already been attempting to dislodge the
Machine's system even before he was overwritten by Neo.


Machines do have emotions, though, almost as a part of the very backdrop of the Matrix.  The B1-66-ER comic points out a sense of self-preservation was inherent to many machines quite early in development.  The Oracle, while manipulative, certainly does seem content with a job well done in some cases, or unhappy when bad things (like, say, a loose killcode for her shell) happen.  The program couple and their 'child' in the second movie (and the end of the third) seem to show a good deal of emotion, nearly human-like.  The Dues Ex Machina, at the end of the third movie, shows a good bit of anger tinged with fear.

---

You ar emaking it sound as if money is an object to machines. However resources are probably something the machiens had to review each destruction phase. But, in order to continue to perpetuate the idea behind the One, all relevant information about the previous versions had to be destroyed, hence the prime program reinsertion method.

Neo, having come across something different in his time compared to past incarnations, was a bit of a quandry to the Architect, since he had a strong physical and emotionl attachment to someone, which generally boiled down to his selfish choice over the obvious one. In the end, it proved to be a good choice for all, and a sort of peace and bridge was formed. However, generations of being brought up to hate machines and so forth, will probably take it's toll for sometime to come. And the same can be said for machines hating humanity. I can only imagine how machines are programmed about humans when they are first brought online.