EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

#11200004169 05/14/2006 02:00:06 EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

Let's say, there's a dialogue scene in "Revolutions" where Niobe talks about her conversation with the Oracle, the one that was shown in Enter the Matrix. However, if playing with Ghost, you come to the same point in the story and also meet the Oracle, while Niobe is waiting outside.

So, there's a simple question you might ask yourself, how real was the scene between Ghost and the Oracle? Did it happen at all? That's pretty impossible, so it must be an alternate scenario.

The same would also go for the two Persephone scenes, and basically for all missions in EtM where Niobe and Ghost change their roles.

Another aspect would be missions like "The Chateau" or "The Powerplant" -- if Niobe and Ghost go their separated paths from the beginning to the end, I fully understand it. If Niobe and Ghost entirely exchange their roles, it's also understandable.

What I really don't understand is when these two concepts are mixed up, so you really don't have any idea wth the other one is doing.

Ghost and Niobe enter the Great Hall together and then go in separate directions. Then, suddenly, you get a message that your partner is captured, and from that point on, you do exactly the same thing with both characters. But here, I could at least imagine that the other one simply got caught in one of the numerous fights (in Ghost's case, it's even more obvious because Niobe gets caught by Vlad).

What I really don't get at all is when the environment starts taking physical changes depending on the character. Both with Ghost and Niobe, you enter the building the same way and encounter the same resistance. Then you turn right and see that the construction site looks completely different in the two versions -- and suddenly, your partner is somewhere there in danger. After going separate parts, both enter the transformator field and you'll wondering again wth the other one's gone.

I just don't get it...

Since EtM isn't PoN and at least was promoted as a canon extension to "Reloaded", this issue confuses me a bit and makes me doubt how much of the rest of EtM "really happened" and how much just consists of possible scenarios.

Any thoughts?

Message Edited by zeroone5069 on 05-14-2006 03:01 AM

#11200004170 05/14/2006 03:44:56 Re: EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

The same can be said about the different outcomes on each server back when there was 9 of them at the end of a live event, I think it was the race to find the one where organisations on each server got a different amount of those items with parts of neos RSI in them. I don't know exactly because I wasn't there. Players wonder which one of them had the real ending but I don't think there is one it just shows you what happens in different scenarios like you said. Also theres a different ending to the path of neo than in the movies which shows how it could of ended differently. So there are different storylines to the matrix but they don't all link with each other.

#11200004171 05/14/2006 04:36:03 Re: EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

I've wondered the same things before, but I figured out fairly well what works and what doesn't when making my EtM movie. I took that storyline and put its elements in my timeline on The MxO Archive. For example, I include Niobe getting caught by Vlad but I then have Ghost kiss Persephone to get to her. For the rest of it, I just went with the most logical option (Niobe goes to see the Oracle as she says in Revolutions, and Ghost infiltrates the Post Office because Niobe fits better as the driver and also looks cool sneaking in through the men's locker room to provide cover fire later :smileywink:).

The other parts mesh fairly well together. The Power Plant has Ghost shutting off the light to protect Niobe, and when playing as Niobe you have to wait for Ghost to shut off the light, which fit together very well in my EtM movie. The minor environment changes are negligible in terms of story canon and mostly were just a game mechanic to prevent access to certain areas, so there really isn't much conflict in the Power Plant at all.

#11200004189 05/17/2006 03:03:31 Re: EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

Just a thought, though most of my opinions on this have been stated
already. If we are to take any of the elements of path of Neo as cannon
(and I think some of them could be, which makes it all the sadder that
other elements would be impossible to fit in) it is logical to assume
that it is Ghost's path the story follows through the sewers, since
Niobe bumps into Neo in PoN. Other than that I agree with what's been
said, though I would have Niobe storming the Post Office, since she's
the captain and would likely take on the assignment herself- if you
take that out, then Ghost pretty much does everything in the storyline,
which I doubt would be the case with niobe as Captain.

#11200004194 05/18/2006 05:07:15 Re: EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

I think as long as the paths of both characters are clearly made out, the contradictions between the two storylines aren't that confusing. What I really don't understand sometimes is where the hell my partner is.

The first time dilemma of that sort appears in the "City Rooftops" mission: Niobe and Ghost both arrive in the car together. Why is it only one of them running around the rooftops and escaping from Agent Johnson? From where does your partner pop out suddenly to shoot the Agent, before he/she disappears again? If he/she is hiding out somewhere around the area and takes the phone before or after you, why do both wake up simultaneously? Somehow, I've had the suspicion that they are actually supposed to be together and cooperate all the time.

The Airport mission is perfect and fully understandable, and in the Sewers, they just swap places once more. And the Chateau mission can also be interpreted in a logical way (your partner just gets captured in one of his/her confrontation).

However, I really don't get the Power Plant scenario. When your characters jumps into the corridor from the hatch on the ceiling, where is the other one? Has he entered the building or the construction site in an other way, or do they enter it together and then go apart when leaving the building (in the first level)?

Then, they actually go different paths when trying to enter the Power Plant. However, the way they go through the door in the construction site and then enter the nuclear transport area is quite mysterious to me.

Oh, and there it goes again, where is your partner in the third level? Does he just enter the area at another time and faces identical resistance up until the "Transformator Field 2"? After that, they meet again and then finally go different paths? Just where is Ghost when you need him? The second time Ghost's supposed to help Niobe as a sniper, he isn't even there in the Niobe version. But meh, that's tolerable. SMILEY

In the Chinatown level, Ghost's version would be an alternate scenario because if you consider the movies canon (umm, they are canon, aren't they? :smileyindifferent: ), Niobe is the one meeting the Oracle. Of course, it's still weird how Niobe doesn't come to telling anyone about the Trainman or Smith, or doesn't even seem to remember it -- but that's a different topic and is going to be discussed another time :smileywink:

Message Edited by zeroone5069 on 05-18-2006 06:09 AM

#11200004241 05/26/2006 10:03:53 Re: EtM: contradictions between the Niobe and Ghost storylines?

Also theres a different ending to the path of neo than in the movies which shows how it could of ended differently.

yeah... (SPOILER ALERT)

The ending in path of neo is *CENSORED*