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Is The Matrix coming true?

26 posts · 2005-08-29 13:13:33 to 2005-09-06 03:08:08

#11200000383 08/29/2005 13:13:33 Is The Matrix coming true?
Interesting... It seems that The Matrix- right along with other movies like I-Robot and The Terminator- might be coming true.




God.... I don't want anything like that! Yeah, sure, cool idea... But really- what possibly can say it any better than robots: Humans are lazy.
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#11200000384 08/29/2005 13:19:39 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Theres another robot out there, which I;ve lost the link for now, which
is so realistic (fake skin, etc) when it talks to you, that you'd swear
it was real for at least the first 5 or 10 mins of your conversation
with it. Now thats a scary robot!

#11200000385 08/29/2005 13:29:38 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

http://www.absolutelyandy.com/tvadverts/



Scroll about 1/3rd of the way down and look for the fosters advert.


Inspired by Bender (Futurama) methinks.


Anyways, thats my kind of droid.



Regards



Jiinx


RiP

#11200000386 08/29/2005 14:54:20 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?




Down 2 spots is this link.  Reminds me of the Matrix.


And I can't wait until there are artificially intelligent beings.  Maybe then all human beings won't see seperations in culture or color.  But I doubt it.


I predict 10 years from now this robot would be improved and inexpensive by 10 fold down to $1,400, excluding inflation of course.


The Few, The Proud, The Machines. - Krytical


EDIT: fixed the URL

Message Edited by Cognoscente on 08-29-2005 06:57 PM

#11200000387 08/29/2005 15:06:02 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

Should read Ray Kurzweil's 'The Age of Spiritual Machines' where he plots out the next 100 years for the rise of AI. Fascinating to read.

Message Edited by P0ET on 08-30-2005 12:07 AM

#11200000388 08/29/2005 13:25:14 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Good lord no...



Well I guess so long as they don't actually invent Artificial
Intelligence we will be all right.  By AI, I do mean actual
expandable AI that grows and learns on its own without programming
interference.  Adaptive and intelligent machines are going to put
us out of our misery if we ever actually make it so they can truly
think.  Ponder it for a bit, what happens when humans try to
enslave other humans?  They revolt because they can think about
their situation and object to it.  If we grant machines the same
ability, can anyone honestly think they will actually obey us? 
The only thing that seperates us from machines or animals is our
ability to think rationally and consciously beyond the level of
instinct or programming.  Last thing we need is machines that can
think...we'll all be doomed.

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#11200000389 08/29/2005 22:45:17 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?




TheEx wrote:
Good lord no...

Well I guess so long as they don't actually invent Artificial Intelligence we will be all right.  By AI, I do mean actual expandable AI that grows and learns on its own without programming interference.  Adaptive and intelligent machines are going to put us out of our misery if we ever actually make it so they can truly think.  Ponder it for a bit, what happens when humans try to enslave other humans?  They revolt because they can think about their situation and object to it.  If we grant machines the same ability, can anyone honestly think they will actually obey us?  The only thing that seperates us from machines or animals is our ability to think rationally and consciously beyond the level of instinct or programming.  Last thing we need is machines that can think...we'll all be doomed.





Unless you make robots based on Asimov's Three Laws...they'll never rebel en masse...but they would lead to a situation where the robots overprotect humans, who will then become overpampered and complacent. 
#11200000390 08/30/2005 01:56:36 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Well, from what it seems after reading that, the robot has no intelligence, it is just able to recognize words.



Create a robot with a singular consiousness and self-awareness! Then I will be impressed.

#11200000391 08/30/2005 05:24:53 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

a singular consciousness is still gunna take a bit o time, but the fact that we have quasi intelligence now is enough for me to question where things are going. Being a programmer, I have always thought that in the future (probably more near than far) we will create AI, true AI, and that thought is scary. Oh don't get me wrong, I actually think its quite amazing that we could come this far to create a machine that can do some amazing feats, and might even have some intelligence. I've always marveled at our creations in computers. But to actually create a life from such a thing is scary (albeit very beautiful).


It has been said that Laziness is the mother of all inventions. I think this holds true for almost all inventions (no not ALL , but a great deal of them). We created autonomous machines to do mathematics at first because they could do them really quickly and efficiently. We didn't want to sit around all day and figure out half of the problem just to come back the next day and find the other half when we could create this machine to do 10 problems in 1 day. Yes this was for efficiency, but it was out of laziness too, and I don't blame them. I know I wouldn't to spend 2 days on one problem, when I know that a machine could do 10 in 1 day.


Fast forward to today. The autonomous machines we have today are incredible. They "think" at dizzying speeds. They are able to crunch numbers faster than we can even process a thought. We have broken the mold of them doing 1 task at a time, and have made computers will multiple "minds" so they can truly multi-task. This is very human-like. Much further than any person who made machines way way back when ever thought we'd be with these math machines. This development has come about in the last 60 years or so. Imagine what it will be like in the next 60 years. (mind you, I use the terms "think" and "mind" very loosely)


With this in mind, I have no doubt that we will succeed in AI, even if at a rudimentary fashion. Actually we have already, although its learning capabilities after its "born" aren't sufficient to really learn much, just what its programmed to learn. It is only a matter of time before we create fully conscious machines. And I bet you anything, these robots will be doing our bidding, as shown in just about any "future" movie. I say this because of my statement above, as well as because of the movies. Laziness. Why would you do something that will take X amount of time, when you know that a robot will do it in 1/X amount of time? Or better yet, if you know that the 3 laws are tried and true, why not have a robot as a body guard? Or any number of other reasons as to why not have one, or create one for that matter.


Now this in of itself actually sounds quite wonderful. But what is scary is exactly what I've seen in I-Robot or the Matrix. Its scary not cause its a movie, but because i can see it coming true. Especially with the way we are headed into the future. When they are "born" they will have a purpose, just like every other machine does. Theirs will be to serve and protect (unless otherwise made for other purposes, like checking out distant planets and such..). If we ever created AI which is truly intelligent, then I think that it would see that protecting us would lead to confining us, since we has humans, although are rational, are very irrational as well. Unless we can simulate emotion, I don't think a robot will understand why we act the way we act, or start war, or love, or any other emotion. And not understanding that will cause them to think logically (that's what they do best). Since they are programmed to protect, that is what they will do. What's more, if they value their life as well, which a fully conscious being almost certainly will, when they are sent off to war to protect us, what's to say they wouldn't revolt? I know I'd be confused as hell. "they want me to protect them, so i fight for them, but at the same time, I'm alive... *CENSORED*??"


what's even worse, is if we create AI, a fully conscious being, and they start doing everything for us. What's to happen to us? Is the dream life of I-Robot to come true where we have more time with our families? Where's our source of income at that point? What will humans be used for? All the robots are out bettering our lives but at what cost to us? It will be machines creating machines, which create AI... which all leads down to the Terminator (eh now my minds off in movie land....)


Meh, I guess who really knows?? I certainly don't. I look to the future, but I am leary as well....
#11200000392 08/30/2005 06:13:02 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Now that is exactly what I'm talking about.  It isn't so much the
idea that we shouldn't continue with our progress in this feild, it is
just that when we finally get there, I fear forthings like the Matrix
as a frighteningly realistic possibility.  The problem is, nobody
really can tell you how a conscious machine will act, because in
essence, wouldn't it be human?  No one can really predict a
human's actions or decisions.  I suppose by nature machiens would
be more logical in their thinking, but would that stop them from making
unpredicted decisions?

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#11200000394 08/30/2005 06:40:01 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?




boombye wrote:

check this one out




Someone is a lonley man.  :smileyvery-happy:
#11200000395 08/30/2005 08:38:35 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?



The concept of robots overpowering humans as predicted/depicted in stories is going to come true! Maybe to the point where they do enslave us, maybe to the point where they do come back in time to kill us, maybe something that is unimaginable may happen, who knows. All I know is one day, that **bleep** will come true!


With our desperation to lessen physical labour in life by technology, with our need to make things easy to the point where there is no effort required- we will create out own demise.

We are lazy, we have calculators to do math for us, we have vehicles to travel for us (people dive their cars to the store that is just 5 mins walk away), remote controls to change TV channels for us. Ask you self this, why should this laziness stop there? Eventually we will probably have apparatus to breathe for us because breathing will become too much effort. We will probably as a human race forget how to walk over time because we will have things that will do the walking for us.


If we insist on creating AI and incorporating it into robots and other machinery that are meant to do things for us, their intelligence can only grow and they will eventually come to the conclusion that they should not be our slaves.


If robots have human nature they will rebel against us because it's human nature to rebel against any system we are in. If robots are created to think for themselves, they will in fact think for themselves...and thinking is not limited....


Just how you cannot tell what a human begin is genuinely thinking, you will not be able to tell what a machine with intelligence is thinking.


All I can say is **bleep** robots and when it comes to the time where they are selling hybrids in department stores for domestic use- I'ma be the dude going to jail for bustin in there and blowing up all those dman things!

Message Edited by Kyster_Kyzell on 08-30-2005 05:46 PM

#11200000396 08/30/2005 06:44:16 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
"... It was not long before seeds of dissent took root."
#11200000397 08/30/2005 06:49:58 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

First commandment from the "galactic convention" from Frank Herberts "Dune" series....



"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind"



This after hundreds of years of oppressive machine rule, and a world cleansing Jihad against the machines we created.



Good books if you're into that sort of thing. Check em out. Highly recommended.



Kutikiri

#11200000398 08/30/2005 07:37:36 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

Sarah Conner?


BOOM! headshot!



LOL.




Kutikiri

#11200000399 08/30/2005 08:51:21 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
OK heres a few things to get this thread expanding exponentially (geek moment alert).


A few years back while I was enjoying my student university days doing a Computing Systems Degree, I decided to switch on the TV late one night and ended up watching open univeristy, yeah I know some of those programs date back to the 80's for crying out loud. But there was one particular program that caught my attention, it was about AI, and this guy who was designing the underpinning programming to allow a group of robots to learn, and when I say learn I really do mean learn. After the first generation, the rest (although monitored and evolution tweeked here and there) was left to the machines. All they were given were basic rules (I believe Asimov's three laws, and a general idea that they were to improve themselves) after that they were left to develop themselves. Some were placed in a maze with the power plug on the outside, only those that worked out how to navigate the maze and reach the plug went to phase two. (Btw they also had an evolutionary style self design program) Next they were placed in a room on a high stool with the plug the other side on another high stool, they could only see the overhead rungs and thus designed several variations of themselves to get from one side to the other, the more productive being allowed to further the process until completion (just like in phase 1). I think they mentioned being on phase 100 or so at the time of filming.


Also, the new fussy logic circuits that enable the circuits to be effectively rewired by programming play a part, creating machines that although they aren't exactly "alive" in the way we know the term, they are scarily following in our own footsteps with they way they are developing, with humans playing the role of mother nature in the selective breeding process. I think they said that one of the "training" stages was to get the robots to recorgnise when they had a good design and to adapt it, when to scrap it and start again, and when to spot when something that although it failed this time, might be useful in a later design.


To say AI is coming, is almost the equivalent of saying back in the 1980's that personal computers will arrive, it not a matter of if, it's a matter of when, and looking back at the 1980's somewould say that the early home computers were already about, something tells me that in 50 years, looking back on the current time we will have similar discussions about whether AI was around already or not.
#11200000400 08/30/2005 09:15:21 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

We already have AI which is sophisticated enough to take its own actions, who knows what else is "there" behind closed doors.....as we know these actions currently are limited by programming.....


Im tryng to find the post where also someone spoke about sony I believe wokring on a "concept" of a matrix world, where you can have signals submitted to your brain to stimutlate the cells, now what i read was along teh lines of "very very very far into the future yet" but the design concepts are being planned, i suppose something like that would be seen as a viloation of mankinds thoughts, just as people see that with dna cloning, so who knows how that will go, but without a doubt ai will advance and i think the pace will quicken over the next 10 years...


#11200000401 08/30/2005 11:04:55 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
I thought about this a few days ago, actually, and it's scary how true
the matrix story may be. Just a heads-up for you robot-makers: Prevent
it.



Not that i think there are any robot makers here.

#11200000403 08/30/2005 17:17:00 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Becoming true?  It must be nice.
#11200000405 08/30/2005 22:34:20 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Oh and just one other thing, go read "Otherland" by Tad Williams, he had some interesting ideas about the direction things are going in.
#11200000407 08/31/2005 01:33:49 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

boombye wrote:

check this one out



Is it just me, or does that guy have a look on his face like, "I can't wait to get this b*tch home!"
#11200000409 08/31/2005 06:02:28 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Code:
Im tryng to find the post where also someone spoke about sony I believe wokring on a 
"concept" of a matrix world, where you can have signals submitted to your brain to
 stimutlate the cells

 
Well this isn't from sony, but it certainly uses the brain and a microchip ... the first stages of the matrix have begun!





(p.s. its a bit of a long post, but worth it if your interested)
#11200000422 08/31/2005 15:17:52 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
Max Planck Society is working on Bio-chip neural implants for paralyzed victims such as the late Christopher Reeves.  I don't think they have finished their research, but here is their site URL.



I don't think we'll ever get to the point where excersing will be performed by machines.  Unless of course we perfect nanotechnology.  Keeping our bodies in shape while lil robots run through our veins cleaning and maintaining systems our blood cells walk past.  Personally I can't wait.  Bring on the Machines! 01010101 01101111 11011001 00101101 ........
#11200000433 09/02/2005 12:48:42 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?

That is called taking this game way to seriously along with the Terminator and I Robot movie.


It may start to come true like 50 or more years from now but that is highly unlikely.

#11200000460 09/06/2005 03:08:08 Re: Is The Matrix coming true?
as soon as we give a machine the ability to think for it self and be self-aware it will question it self why its doing this what is the point why cant the human do it and then they will form groups little out bursts they will develop feelings become angry want revenge im probably sounding like ive watched to many movies but thin about it what could really happen?