Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

#11200000348 08/27/2005 13:59:48 Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

I was wondering if there were any other programs about like the Merovingian? I would have thought that there would have been quite a few programs like him who somehow managed to survive throughout the diffrent incarnations of the Matrix.

I would have thought it would be interesting if there were and wondered what there goals and agendas might be?

I think that we have not seen all the diffrent types of excile programs yet, I think in one of the films Angel sightings were mentioned as one such possible program, have such programs been seen yet? Do you think Seraph could be one? As Seraph could be short for Seraphim which is a type of Angel. I know we have Vampire and Werewolf (Lupines) like programs but what others are there?

#11200000349 08/27/2005 14:38:38 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

I'd like to see Ringwraith programs. But I get what you're saying... Pretty cool.

#11200000350 08/27/2005 15:13:37 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

There are other programs like that.

The Twins were Ghosts

Lupines are werewolves

Blooddrinkers are vampires

Seraph is named after angels, so it's logical he's based on them

also, most of the mission contact people you see are programs and exiles, most have been around just as long as The Merovingian

#11200000351 08/27/2005 16:28:52 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

No, what I mean is are there any programs like the Merovingian who run a big organisation like his? Like a rival? I would have thought there were others who had the same sort of power and knowledge of things in the Matrix as him?

For example if his wife left I bet she could set up an organisation which could rival his. So are there any other Merovingian like Organisations? There goals could be totaly diffrent from his, for example they may be trying to make peace with the machines to stop them selves from getting deleted and trying to get bodies built so they can leave the Matrix and live in the real world. Or maybe they do not really care and just want to keep them selves hidden and gather knowledge and understanding and nothing more.

I supose some of the Excile gangs could be viewed in the same way, but they are nowhere near as powerfull.

#11200000352 08/27/2005 16:32:45 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

Oh, well, the answer is no. The Merovingian is the highest upon high. From statements he's been here **bleep** near since the beginning, collecting info and power along the way. So there are exiles similar to him, but he is hands down the single most powerful exile in the Matrix, making him their top representative

#11200000353 08/27/2005 17:40:03 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

I suppose the Merovingian would be the "highest" upon high. But not necessarily one-of-a-kind.

There are many different characters and groups within the Matrix that seem to have deep roots of power. The shapers, for example, that were introduced in the first event, could be a semi-rival group to the Merovingian. However, as they are builders and maintainers, their "purpose" directive probably has no interest in them fighting a mafia style crime war.

A group that has fascinated me since day 1 in the Matrix are the Archivists. As a bit of a old software/hardware collector / Archiver myself, I wanted to find out more about them. There's a lot of parallel characters in many Sci-Fi / Futuristic stories out there to the Archivists - people of mystery and great power, who seek to collect and preserve pieces of existence (usually because they have reached a state of harmony with the universe and see that it's unique elements must be preserved).

In the Matrix, the Archivists hold keys to other worlds...much like the Merovingian. They also know of areas, or realms, that the machines themselves have lost access to. This makes them quite formidable. I personally like their appearance too. They appear as old dudes, wear glasses, and read books - it kind of introduces a sort of "intellectual-detachment" ("my will reaches across worlds - so who the hell are you?") Since we know they can bring red-pills in and out, who knows if they could lead armies of Zero-One Labourers to Mara Central one day..

(Future plot ideas - devs? :smileyvery-happy: )

Message Edited by wwWizard2k on 08-27-2005 09:40 PM

Message Edited by wwWizard2k on 08-27-2005 09:42 PM

#11200000356 08/27/2005 19:43:06 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

That is a good way of looking at it. But even the archivists have taken sides. Their abilities are specific. Whereas the Merovingian's purpose (I'm guessing major info analysis program) can be used in more general areas.

And I think the books you need to use the archivists work both ways, to get in and get out. Just a thought

#11200000363 08/28/2005 06:06:15 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

I view it more as a cold war scenario, as well.

A shaper doesn't have the combat abilities to bust into Club Hel, kill 270 vampires, then somehow kill the Merovingian. Reverse the coin though - as a Lupine, or Elite Guard - would you really want to mess with someone who could re-shape you into a toaster oven?

But, let's take one step back even - these are all programs, and they have distinct "purposes". Shapers and archivists would definitely not want to wage a war, because it'd be nonsesical for them to do so. The Merovingian would find that conflict equally pointless, as he needs the Matrix in one piece, as it is his "kingdom".

I honestly wonder if the Merovingian is an exile at all. I mean - the exiles are not too different from the red-pills. Many exiles were programmatic parts of the Matrix, who "awakened" to the fact that they were programs. Yet, they can't be "unplugged" or go to Zion.

Since we know the One was created as just one more level of control to lead / fool / keep in line the red pills that got out, I've always viewed the Merovingian in the same light. Like someone the machines purposefully allowed to slip through the cracks, build up a empire - so that any program that did choose exile would not become a dangerous rogue (Like Seraph) - but would be swallowed up by the merv and thus returned to a controlled environment. (I believe a Crime underworld to be, in a funny way, a controlled environment).

Possible proof to this lies in a few places. We know that the Agents showed up every single time a red-pill enteredthe Matrix. It was only a matter of time. Since the Agents *know* where the Merv hangs out - you could just spawn dozens of them in Club Hel - almost no exile can defeat an agent. So, since the Merv is still around, you'd have to assume they didn't bother.

...and yet, they did bother with Seraph. We know the Seraph left the Merv once, and then we find out the agents bothered to track him down.

Interesting concepts.

#11200000364 08/28/2005 07:11:43 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

Whoa, never looked at it that way. Great insight and perception there, Mr. Wizard.

#11200000371 08/28/2005 20:50:49 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

good thinking wizard.

but to answer the original question. Yes there are other programs who have empires take Dame White and Mr. Black or whatever his name is they are the latest powers in the matrix we have been told about. we where given a story about each member of this 'Family' from day 1. Merv is the most powerful but not all exiles are under his banner so to speak hope that helps

#11200000373 08/29/2005 10:48:12 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

Caine and Abel are "from a much older version of the Matrix", so they
survived previous Matrix reloads along with the Merovingian (and worked
for him).

#11200000441 09/03/2005 05:47:26 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

Kalt seems to be pretty powerful, as Exiles go...

Oh, and if you can find a log of the first speech Seraph gave (in the first week of live, I believe), he mentions the scars on his back, saying that they prove he is dedicated to his cause... I think at some point, Ol' Wingless lost his easiest mode of conveyance.
... Speaking of Kalt and Pandora's Box and all that, I wonder if the Seraphim (from whence come the shoes) bear any relation to Seraph...

- Void

Message Edited by EndlessVoid on 09-03-2005 06:52 AM

Recursion: n - See Recursion.

#11200000549 09/10/2005 14:55:07 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

The short answer: Yes
Who: Neo

The long answer...

take the paralells of Neo = Christ theme as obviously portrayed in the Matrix Universe...

The Merovingians are historically documented as being wealthy french aristocrats who controlled many sectors of 'life' during their hayday (banking, military, etc...)

But there's a creepy biblical connection that i've not heard anyone on these forums ever touch on...

My theory is that The Merovingian is to the AntiChrist what Neo is to Jesus.

In fact, when Mary Magdalene (Jesus' WIFE [yes it's true]) left Jesus' resting place (and after she saw his resurection... being the FIRST to do so) she went with Joseph of Arimathea to Gaul (modern day southern France) and stayed with The Merovingians.

The Merovingians worked with the "Priore de Sion" (Priory of Sion) to keep Mary safe, as well as her unborn child.

Unborn child?

Yes, Mary was pregnant with Christ's bloodline... this knowledge is what started the Inquisition and elimination of the Knights Templar, and ensuingly the classic 'Quest for the Holy Grail'

Popular theory suggested the word grail itself came from a
French or Medieval Latin term for "vessel" or "bowl." It's been suggested by many authors that one version of the French term for "holy grail" —
"san greal" was a mistranslation of the phrase "sang real," which means
Royal Blood.

So, the quest for the Holy Grail became the hunt for Jesus' bloodline, to which the Priore de Sion vowed to keep secret. They documented throughout history who was born of Jesus bloodline and ensured their protection.

So, with the Merv (as portrayed in the Matrix) being this overlord with a long history who has 'survived neo's predecessors', controls a league of vampires and warewolves, it's interesting to see the paralells with the old history behind it...

It's as if the Warchowski's took that idea, wrapped it in the matrix universe, and pushed it forward a few thousand years, evolving into what the Merv is depicted as in the Matrix.

Having just touched on this, i'm sure that some interesting conclusions can be drawn from a little digging into our 'real world' history and that of the Matrix.

#11200000550 09/10/2005 15:12:49 Re: Were there any other programs like the Merovingian?

Blazer0x wrote:
Caine and Abel are "from a much older version of the Matrix", so they survived previous Matrix reloads along with the Merovingian (and worked for him).

Let's say it together..."I didn't play Enter The Matrix." Hehe. I'm sure they worked for more than the Merv.

Message Edited by RainKingX on 09-10-2005 04:13 PM