Changing Hyperjump

I know this is a hot topic and has been debated many times but this is my idea. Why not disable hyperjump during combat. This would allow people to use hyperjump to access building tops and to move freely in missions but stop the problem of people rolling out and jumping seconds from dieing. I know there is alot of people on both camps so i dont know how such a change would work but i thought i would throw out the idea.

Personally I dont see the need for it in pvp. The way i see it, if you willing to attack someone you have to be prepared to die and give up your cq if you lose. Otherwise there is no point in pvping at all really. I roll out and run in pvp but i see that as something totally different. Running doesnt deny someone cq or a kill because its extremely easy to chase and reinterlock before they can get their shield back up. Its more of a team pvp tactic of drawing one or more reds away from the main body of pvp for the  "easy cq" while your friends have a chance to win the main battle. I die most times i run so denying cq is not the reason i do it.

Anyway i know this topic has been talked alot about in the past. Just bringing it back up in a new thread cause we aint supposed to necro old ones. I dunno if my specific idea has been mentioned before, ive read thru alot of discussions on this topic but not all.

I don't mind someone hyperjumping away.  It's one less to worry about amidst a sea of reds.  I'll just get them later.

A serial HJ'er can really annoy, especially to MA's who only have a low level hinder ability if they have a pistol on them. However, as Garu says, an enemy that HJ's away from the fight is failing any team he may be on, by the time he or she gets back from rebuffing/healing etc... then the rest of the team may have already fallen.

If you're on a team and you come up against someone you know will roll and HJ, see if you can get a team member to root them. One of the most satisfying things in PvP, at least for me, is when a serial HJ'er is about to jump for their 'life' and they get rooted or hindered.

I had previously suggested a HJ debuff, which can be explainable IC, which basically reduces HJ by a percentage when in the combat stance but some people had suggested that it would be detrimental to newer players when jumping to avoid gangs and perhaps even Zionites when jumping to get rid of the lvl 100 Agents that spawn.

A few problems. Lowbies making their way through Westview will die far more often and probably ragequit the game. Zionists who get shot by lvl 100 agents will basically have to HL away to get them off their back, again causing an increase in rage resulting from this completely ret@rded "content". I can think of many times when I have pressed ctrl + space to make a datamine spawn I didn't want to deal with disappear.

Too many ways this change will affect PvE negatively when it is only made for the benefit of a few PvPers. And even then there will be PvPers annoyed by this change (Not just serial HJers oppose this change).

Good to see some decent replies rather then flaming. All your points are valid. I see how this could be a problem for people escaping npcs. Making it disable when ur flagged would fix that but would raise more issues such as making the ability useless on vector. Doesnt seem to be a clear way around this.

Again thanks for the constructive replies.

MxO needs more snares.

What Pylat said pretty much.

I dont mind the people who try to roll out of IL and jump away to save themselves.  I mean, thats just common sense to me.  However, it is annoying to see the people who like to go into sneak and hit you with a quick punt before hyperjumping away and then coming back to try it again.  Quite frustrating when one minute you are standing there perfectly fine, the next moment, you get punted, half your health is gone, and suddenly 2 or 3 other members from other orgs have decided to flag as well.

Or maybe just a tool, what can disable Hyper-Jump.

As primarily an MKT, I have a few options at my disposal for those so inclined to spread their wings.

• Neuro-dart
• Sever Artery
• Crippling Throw
• Deadly Throw
• Paralyzing Throw

However, I can certainly empathize with Martial Artists since all they really have is Hindering Shot.

The thing is, this isnt a "problem" that the devs would want to spend time to "fix".  The only 2 ways i could see them making hyperjump disabled would be to have it disabled if you are:

1.  flagged for pvp.  This wont happen though becuase vector itself would be disabled from using HJ.  Also, any constructs you enter would mean hj is disabled.

2.  "effects of combat"  This wont happen either.  How many times have you walked out of a hardline only to have a lvl 100 agent shoot you? Or how many times have you datamined and been hit by a spawn?  Both events put you in a "effect of combat" state, and yet both events need you to hyperjump away to avoid it.

Tygrius wrote:

2.  "effects of combat"  This wont happen either.  How many times have you walked out of a hardline only to have a lvl 100 agent shoot you? Or how many times have you datamined and been hit by a spawn?  Both events put you in a "effect of combat" state, and yet both events need you to hyperjump away to avoid it.

Like I said before, a percentage debuff would go some way as a compromise between the two but I very much doubt that the Dev's see the rolling and HJing as an issue to be fixed. Seeing as it's only MA that really get's the short end of the stick, perhaps the state of enraged could be attributed to another move in the MA's arsenal, one that doesn't cost 70 IS. Yes it means actually getting the jumper into IL but then... that's the challenge.

Garu wrote:

However, I can certainly empathize with Martial Artists since all they really have is Hindering Shot.

Hindering shot is worthless  Hits about a quarter of the time, prob would go up if we were wearing ball acc gear (think i'v been hitting more with ninja gloves and wireframes.)

Rolling doesn't bother me that much, we all do it. More makes me laugh when people do it, especially when they stand on the roof directly next to you lol but yeah bunny hopping between 2 buildings can get annoying. After a couple of mins i just get bored and go for someone else.

I think it would be a stupid idea to weaken hj, we all use it, and would bugger us up when its 8 v 2 and you're trying to split and pull.

So for MA's, change Ki Burst etc to make a root, oh and more bloody damage

Vinia wrote:

...would go some way as a compromise between the two but I very much doubt that the Dev's see the rolling and HJing as an issue to be fixed...

That's correct, imo.  Reallistically there is no problem.  It's not an exploit or a design flaw.  It's just a debate between two groups, "OMG PEEVEEPEE IS SERIUS BIZNISS!!" and "OMG PVP DEATH = DEATH IRL!!"

I point no fingers!!  

CTRL+SPACE

Garu wrote:

Vinia wrote:

...would go some way as a compromise between the two but I very much doubt that the Dev's see the rolling and HJing as an issue to be fixed...

That's correct, imo.  Reallistically there is no problem.  It's not an exploit or a design flaw.  It's just a debate between two groups, "OMG PEEVEEPEE IS SERIUS BIZNISS!!" and "OMG PVP DEATH = DEATH IRL!!"

I point no fingers!!  

CTRL+SPACE

Zion's dont HJ....

*sneaks out*

Tygrius wrote:

1.  flagged for pvp.  This wont happen though becuase vector itself would be disabled from using HJ.  Also, any constructs you enter would mean hj is disabled.

On top of that, we'd be relegated to the ground in all of the Archives too, even Sati's Playground (Still flagged in a way, since you can't group with other orgs).

Garu wrote:

As primarily an MKT, I have a few options at my disposal for those so inclined to spread their wings.

• Neuro-dart
• Sever Artery
• Crippling Throw
• Deadly Throw
• Paralyzing Throw

However, I can certainly empathize with Martial Artists since all they really have is Hindering Shot.

Don't forget bottleneck, stun, etc.    There are ways to stop the serial jumpers in PvP.

I for one am quite happy with how it currently works but I do have an idea for a good way to change it if it were to be changed.  All you'd have to do is disable hyperjump (or even just ctrl+space) for players while they're affected by the 5sec no-interlock timer they get when rolling out. 

I have to vote in on the negatory side... most of the above presented by others covers it.

Personally, most of PvP seems to be about annoyance anyway. Would you also do away with all the s**t-talking, taunting bravado? If you are going to pvp at all you might as well not get annoyed by ANTHING, including HJr's.

Secondly, while I agree that for an MA this is annoying, I am under the distinct impression that PvP is, in fact, intended as a group exercise. When I last checked, there are 5 combat trees. Isn't the idea supposed to be that you team with people using other trees to broaden your attack capability? All of the other combat trees have ways of keeping people on the ground or in IL, and I've always presumed this was for a reason. If MA's could root you before IL, and by extension afterwards, what could you do against em? They could root you, break shield, IL, root you again when you roll, break, IL,etc.

To me, it makes sense that an MA should rely on allies in other tree to assist in this regard.

psilody wrote:

I have to vote in on the negatory side... most of the above presented by others covers it.

Personally, most of PvP seems to be about annoyance anyway. Would you also do away with all the s**t-talking, taunting bravado? If you are going to pvp at all you might as well not get annoyed by ANTHING, including HJr's.

Secondly, while I agree that for an MA this is annoying, I am under the distinct impression that PvP is, in fact, intended as a group exercise. When I last checked, there are 5 combat trees. Isn't the idea supposed to be that you team with people using other trees to broaden your attack capability? All of the other combat trees have ways of keeping people on the ground or in IL, and I've always presumed this was for a reason. If MA's could root you before IL, and by extension afterwards, what could you do against em? They could root you, break shield, IL, root you again when you roll, break, IL,etc.

To me, it makes sense that an MA should rely on allies in other tree to assist in this regard.

Exactly.  And, nerfing hyperjump would really put the nail in the coffin in the sense that we've drifted away from the "Matrixness" of MxO over the past year or so IMHO, especially recently...I mean really, if you can't hyperjump in Mega City, what's the point of even jacking in?

Bottom line if you need a hj nerf, you're doing it wrong.

Face/follow should be re-enabled.

Hyperjump was never that much of an issue when chasing and fleeing were balanced in terms of difficulty.

Now, as long as the jumper is not horribly, horribly incompetent, he/she can get away guaranteed. Reds have NO chance to catch the jumper if the jumper has even a small idea what they're doing. It didn't use to be this way.

ya while either running/jumping and trying to guess that persons distance without losing there target is much more difficult than jump here and turn random direction jump really close then really far and hide is some elevator if really needed.

Bayamos wrote:

Face/follow should be re-enabled.

Hyperjump was never that much of an issue when chasing and fleeing were balanced in terms of difficulty.

Now, as long as the jumper is not horribly, horribly incompetent, he/she can get away guaranteed. Reds have NO chance to catch the jumper if the jumper has even a small idea what they're doing. It didn't use to be this way.

I'd have to disagree there bay its not *that* difficult to look for the white lines in the sky and follow them and if your really good you can hyperjump too with them instead of running. That said it is more effort to actually catch them but meh.. if you want it that bad.. lol

I just recently came from another very popular game that tried to nerf travel powers in PvP. The end result was disastrous. Most of the PvP population quit the game, leaving the games PvP virtually dead. Part of PvP is moving freely, just as you would in real life. The locked mêlée aspect of PvP in this game is tolerable, but to nerf anyones means of movement in PvP would end up with alot of people quite upset.

No offense when I say this....Bad idea.

WTB OoIL ankle-stomp ability. Half metre range 20% chance to slow enemy by 25% for 4 secs (5 DPS)

Yea...nerfing Hyperjump would result in death to Mxo. Though, One change I wish they would make is in the animations. Not that this is even possible, but the best hyper jump animation in the game, you never get to see. If you've ever jumped off of a super tall building, and done the back roll land, then you know of what I speak. I wish that the height was lowered so I could see that animation more often. And as most likely the only, or one of the few that only loads Beta jump, I say that pretty confendantly, especially considering I've turned evade breaking into an artform. If your from Vector and I've broken your evade without a scratch on me, then you know I speak the truth on this subject.

NeoVII wrote:

Yea...nerfing Hyperjump would result in death to Mxo. Though, One change I wish they would make is in the animations. Not that this is even possible, but the best hyper jump animation in the game, you never get to see. If you've ever jumped off of a super tall building, and done the back roll land, then you know of what I speak. I wish that the height was lowered so I could see that animation more often. And as most likely the only, or one of the few that only loads Beta jump, I say that pretty confendantly, especially considering I've turned evade breaking into an artform. If your from Vector and I've broken your evade without a scratch on me, then you know I speak the truth on this subject.

I actually miss the old beta /early release landing animation in MxO.  Check out Cinematic 1.2 (IIRC) for an example of this.  It meant to emulate Final Flight of the Osiris when whatsername lands in the alley.  It was really cool and extremely Matrixy.  For some incoherent ungodly reason they nerfed that.  Although they did add the in flight animations (ie barrel roll).

I think it adds to the PvP. I play as a support class (MKT/Assassin) and I can not just solo anyone I want, to stand and die by a MAer is not smart. If you want to stop someone from using Hyper jump, hit them with Stun or Powerless. Some good pvpers have learned what root can do for you, and have used it effectivly.

PvP is more designed for Teams, a mixed variaty of builds to compliment each other. A couple of interlock builds, a healer, an AOE, and a debuffer/upgrade artist. If you find yourself getting rolled out of interlock, try looking for abililties in your tree that does Stun or powerless, or get with a friend who can load up a support tree like hacker or MKT. You can even use bridges to stop them from jumping, try to lure them down below a bridge and they are forced to find another way out other than jumping.

I can't see removing HJ would improve how the PvP is going to change. Then Master Shadow and other abilites should then might aswell be frozen in IL. They should instead focus on CR 3.0

Easiest fixes would be to have it use more IS but then lower lvls wouldn't be able to use it.

So how about a timer then.

Mindsweep wrote:

I can't see removing HJ would improve how the PvP is going to change. Then Master Shadow and other abilites should then might aswell be frozen in IL. They should instead focus on CR 3.0

As for Master Shadow I think that disable evasion tool should be able to remove it from someone.