CR2.0. and Patches.

Syn as i said the other day there, they haven't tweaked anything (that i know of.) Everything they do is in the patch notes.

Didn't know about the high acc means you can roll lower aswell but i only wear about 3 acc items anyways.

As for the hypers, defo no to that. Would prefer to see 2 hypers than none.

If your base accuracy, µ, is the mean/median/mode of the Guassian distribution, I believe changing your accuracy would shift the bell curve left or right, so that "higher accuracy can make you roll lower" bit isn't exactly true.

So a couple of things, we haven't changed the gaussian curve algorithm that drives your rolls for either Accuracy or Defense in a very long time (since CR2.0 went into effect if I remember correctly). We have only adjusted the bonuses you can obtain and fixed some coding that caused an ability or two to never miss under some specific circumstances.

Your Accuracy and Defense final values are your maximum possible roll on the gaussian curve.

If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

Pylat wrote:

If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

How exactly do you imagine the description for the bonuses you're talking about be? Also, if it's under a gaussian curve form it is so that it applies a random effect thus making the gameplay being affected by "luck" (you could get high rolls or low rolls).This is why you can sometime win a duel and then lose the duel with unchanged attributes on either side, just because you had a different roll, or bad luck if you want. Besides the fact that i can't imagine an apparel item have a i.e. Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus (2%) - not to mention the complications that might occur from making new bonuses, i don't think they'd wanna change the gameplay to give you control over hazard , if you understand what i mean.

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Pylat wrote:

If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

How exactly do you imagine the description for the bonuses you're talking about be? Also, if it's under a gaussian curve form it is so that it applies a random effect thus making the gameplay being affected by "luck" (you could get high rolls or low rolls).This is why you can sometime win a duel and then lose the duel with unchanged attributes on either side, just because you had a different roll, or bad luck if you want. Besides the fact that i can't imagine an apparel item have a i.e. Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus (2%) - not to mention the complications that might occur from making new bonuses, i don't think they'd wanna change the gameplay to give you control over hazard , if you understand what i mean.

NeoExcidious wrote:

GoDGiVeR wrote:

Pylat wrote:

If I remember right, apparently your roll will range from 1 to your accuracy on either end of the bell curve. With 1 and your accuracy on the extreme ends and the number in the middle being the most likely to be rolled. I have no idea how you worked the maths out that increasing your accuracy (And thus shifting the leading end of the bell curve to the right) will make lower rolls more likely.

If you have an accuracy of 150pts, the minimum is (always) 1 and 150pts is your maximum on your roll, 75pt being the most propable roll (median). Because the only way to influence the gaussian curve is by increasing the right maxima, I've always wanted to ask: Can we get a chance to influence the curve more? ( minimum shifts, median shifts, etc.)

How exactly do you imagine the description for the bonuses you're talking about be? Also, if it's under a gaussian curve form it is so that it applies a random effect thus making the gameplay being affected by "luck" (you could get high rolls or low rolls).This is why you can sometime win a duel and then lose the duel with unchanged attributes on either side, just because you had a different roll, or bad luck if you want. Besides the fact that i can't imagine an apparel item have a i.e. Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus (2%) - not to mention the complications that might occur from making new bonuses, i don't think they'd wanna change the gameplay to give you control over hazard , if you understand what i mean.

CR1 was complete control over your rolls, CR2 is the opposite. You can only affect the maximum roll, anything else is "random", "luck". The only thing that lets you win more often is knowledge about the abilities, tactics, clothing and behaviour of opponents (the "real" skill).

Also: Bonuses do not effect the roll directly, they affect the Maximum (possible roll). If I wanted to influence my minimum possible rolls, it would be with pts and boni ("Minimum Accuracy", "Minimum Accuracy Bonus", not "Minimum Accuracy Roll Bonus", because as 9mm told me recently, rolls are absolute,  the unchangeable end result). Adding those pts and boni into the roll calculation isn't much of a work, adding all the boni and pts correctly to all the trees and styles (and hopefully balanced at that) is the real work (which is probably why -still- nobody has added thrown def %). To change the median is a tad more difficult to implement I guess, though.

Giving control to e.g. the minimum is IMO a large improvement in gameplay by adding another dimension to consider by the players (higher chance for high rolls (but with higher chance to fail since it expands the curve) or higher chance for average rolls (more secure)). Right now the system is too random (exceptions *cough thrown def* confirm the rule).

GoDGiVeR wrote:

just look at Thrown Defense. Due to lack of Throw Def %, the only thing you can do against their accuracy is spam abilities against them in IL or have powerless/confuse/stun abs OoIL.

Is Thrown Defense (still) broken?

It was thrown resistance bonus that was broken. What he is talking about is the fact that none of the trees give any thrown defence bonus, whereas there is plenty of viral, melee and ballistic defence bonuses from the ability trees.

AnXieTy wrote:

CR2 = Complete crap, thats all anyone needs to know.

Great post.

Would read again.

NeoExcidious wrote:

Higher accuracy = roll lower? Who gave you that ideea? And if you were a good pvper in 2007 and now you suck, as you say, that implies you havent been playing since 2007, which would explain why you suck. If though that is not true, you forgot the new content factor and maybe the people's inventive trait. There are sleepwalker clothes, ninja GIs, Valkyr shades, etc. and people can always come up with new builds(loads) so you can expect that your overall pvp success rate will drop.Getting rid of hypers is your worst ideea yet. I mean really, how can you pvp if you don't have some defense against each load? Without those, the rate of deaths in pvp would increase, and we all know what happens when people die in pvp. (i.e. ...cursion).

Worst idea yet, hmmm... I think I can top it, gimme some time,kay?

On a lighter note - thanks I think I got a better understanding of the system now. =) And yeah, I guess that CR 1 was what I was asking for where my choice in clothes gave me control and didn't take away control but... as everyting else in MxO it's all about feeling powerless and very little about feeling powerful... game on. Thanks for the replies. I can see the Hypers going is a bad idea. I just wonder why my rolls sometimes work much better without them...hmm.

And yes I am mathematically handicapped...

Verbeia wrote:

AnXieTy wrote:

CR2 = Complete crap, thats all anyone needs to know.

Great post.

Would read again.

Heh. =)

I played 3 months of CR1 and all i can say is it was dam confusing lol Especially for a first time playing an MMO. Tbh i prefer CR2 but i suppose thats cause i never got to understand how CR1 worked.

As for hypers, they give def points so that means if you have the hyper loaded its going to be more difficult for someone to hit you. Doesn't really affect your rolls apart from a special v special (only 1 special can go through.) There will be the odd time you will manage to outroll someone without the hyper running but that could be due to your acc being higher or that randomness factor.

I still vote for having 2 hypers loaded!!!

Removing the Hyper defenses would be a horrible, horrible idea. And on the rare occasion that they patch and change a specific load out, the patch notes usually state what has been changed in that particular load out.

Oh, and I spent my fair share of time in both CR1 and CR2. Let's just say that both have/had their weaknesses and advantages.