[11.2.4] The Machines have surrounded the pods - Syntax - 10/9/08

That is the most fun I've had at a Live Event that I can remember. Chasing and slowing down Wright in an attempt to save the bluepill (despite the fact that we knew he probably had to die to progress the story) was great. I think it lasted for 3 hours or something like that.

I noticed Wright was hardly hitting anyone with Decelerate and Signal Jammer, though. If she was sitting on awakened style, might want to have her use Coder style instead so she still gets the melee accuracy and damage of Awakened style, but still have viral accuracy too. Viral accuracy seems to determine whether or not bits debuff their target. But, I think Rarebit can just boost his viral accuracy points via admin sploits so I dunno lol.

Sorry to most everyone we nuked, by the way. I know that's obnoxious to get killed by someone else at your own org's live event. We'll try to pick a loadout that's a little more crowd-friendly the next time something like this happens.

/formalbow

I think that once the Machinists actually grasped what was happening, they added significant support to the operation. The reduction of area hacks meant that we could all stop acting at cross purposes and jointly look to preserve Daryl's life.

 
How many more people will have to die as a result of the Machines trying to hide the truth?
 
~Shimada 

Shouldn't this have read "How many more people will have to die as a result of the homicidal rampage of ex-Zionites"?  Danielle Wright is responsible for these people's deaths, not the big bad scary Machines.

Illyria

Shimada wrote:

 
How many more people will have to die as a result of the Machines trying to hide the truth?
 
~Shimada 

Shouldn't this have read "How many more people will have to die as a result of the homicidal rampage of ex-Zionites"?  Danielle Wright is responsible for these people's deaths, not the big bad scary Machines.

Illyria22 wrote:

Shimada wrote:

 
How many more people will have to die as a result of the Machines trying to hide the truth?
 
~Shimada 

Shouldn't this have read "How many more people will have to die as a result of the homicidal rampage of ex-Zionites"?  Danielle Wright is responsible for these people's deaths, not the big bad scary Machines.

I think you missed the greater point - that the Machines surrounded the pod in question, making it impossible to safely extract the individual and guaranteeing him only death.

((I L'd MAO... maybe if we'd have had a thermos of chicken noodle he'd have followed a little faster. Defnitely an excellent LE. I miss them already now...))

mmm... so much politics and another innocent dead. I agree it was good to see Machine Operatives helping in the common cause of stopping Wright. It is a shame that so much is apparently at stake with this "BIP" that the Machines were unwilling to allow Daryl's extraction. I say this becasue i presume that, if they'd wanted to, the Machines could in fact extract a bluepill. That they didn't, and stopped Zion or EPN from doing so, speaks volumes.

however, it would be nice if we could all move past this pointless blamelaying and get on with the real issue. We need more information on what this BIP is, does, and why Wright and Halborn wanted it so da*m badly. We know a few scraps from Wrights encounter with Gray, but we all need more data if we are going to handle this thing more effectively.

Neoteny wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

Shimada wrote:

 
How many more people will have to die as a result of the Machines trying to hide the truth?
 
~Shimada 

Shouldn't this have read "How many more people will have to die as a result of the homicidal rampage of ex-Zionites"?  Danielle Wright is responsible for these people's deaths, not the big bad scary Machines.

I think you missed the greater point - that the Machines surrounded the pod in question, making it impossible to safely extract the individual and guaranteeing him only death.

Making it impossible for you to retrieve him you mean. You think if he'd have survived an extraction process, and that's a big if, that the Machines would just let him die when there's the possibility of the BIP still being a part of him?

If he had it, he would've ended up dead as they acted to retrieve it.

If not, I'm sure they would've done away with him as well.

His only chance for survival was to be picked up by a Zion or EPN ship, but the Machines made sure that was impossible.

Ah I see. Of course you know this for certain, or as certain as anyone who doesn't actually have a clue about what would actually happen.

Your statement is either full of ignorance or a feeble attempt at propaganda. If it comes down to it, any attempt at Zion and Machines working together to tackle the problem of Wright will inevitably encounter barriers in the form of people like you.

Again, just because you couldn't access the pods does not mean his death was certain.

Neoteny wrote:

If he had it, he would've ended up dead as they acted to retrieve it.

If not, I'm sure they would've done away with him as well.

His only chance for survival was to be picked up by a Zion or EPN ship, but the Machines made sure that was impossible.

Ah I see. Of course you know this for certain, or as certain as anyone who doesn't actually have a clue about what would actually happen.

Your statement is either full of ignorance or a feeble attempt at propaganda. If it comes down to it, any attempt at Zion and Machines working together to tackle the problem of Wright will inevitably encounter barriers in the form of people like you.

Again, just because you couldn't access the pods does not mean his death was certain.

We're all still here, and we were poddies. 

Illyria

Neoteny wrote:

If he had it, he would've ended up dead as they acted to retrieve it.

If not, I'm sure they would've done away with him as well.

His only chance for survival was to be picked up by a Zion or EPN ship, but the Machines made sure that was impossible.

Ah I see. Of course you know this for certain, or as certain as anyone who doesn't actually have a clue about what would actually happen.

Your statement is either full of ignorance or a feeble attempt at propaganda. If it comes down to it, any attempt at Zion and Machines working together to tackle the problem of Wright will inevitably encounter barriers in the form of people like you.

Again, just because you couldn't access the pods does not mean his death was certain.

First of all, a Machinist making implications of alluded-to spin, or propaganda, is laughable. Secondly, there is an established history of the Machines discarding bluepills after they have served their deemed use. While you've established you disagreed with their acts previously, there's no denying there is basis to believe they would have certainly done the same again with Daryl Chester.

shinpseudo wrote:

First of all, a Machinist making implications of alluded-to spin, or propaganda, is laughable. Secondly, there is an established history of the Machines discarding bluepills after they have served their deemed use. While you've established you disagreed with their acts previously, there's no denying there is basis to believe they would have certainly done the same again with Daryl Chester.

Assuming that he would survive the extraction process and assuming the program could be removed from him. Thats a lot of assumptions and while there has indeed been occasions where Bluepills were deemed expendable by the Machines themselves, the situation is completely different. First and formost he'd be a redpill, second he was carrying the program that they want so would be in their interest to keep him alive and lastly, Machinists like myself would make every effort to make sure he wasn't summarily killed after the Machines had achieved what they wanted to achieve. So while there is a small basis, it's significantly overridden by the current situation.

First off the assumption is that he would die during extraction. There are only two common causes of death when extracting bluepills. Heart attack (which can be avoided if the redpill trace program locates the pod quick enough) and drowning if the ship is unable to catch them after the go down the water slide.

Second you employers had in their custody a bluepill that they believed to have the BIP and were attempting to extract it from her up until Wright crashed the party. Obviously the program can be removed from bluepills (Although why on earth Wright or EPN thought that the BIP was on Chester is beyond me since its host's ID has already been revealed.)

The point is the up-ed security around the pods wasn't helping the situation any.

Assuming that he would survive the extraction process and assuming the program could be removed from him. Thats a lot of assumptions and while there has indeed been occasions where Bluepills were deemed expendable by the Machines themselves, the situation is completely different. First and formost he'd be a redpill, second he was carrying the program that they want so would be in their interest to keep him alive and lastly, Machinists like myself would make every effort to make sure he wasn't summarily killed after the Machines had achieved what they wanted to achieve. So while there is a small basis, it's significantly overridden by the current situation.

Let's see...possible death during extraction...versus almost-certain death at the hands of Wright...

Does 'every effort' not include disengaging him from his pod? Because there sure weren't any Sentinels trying to pull him free before Wright got to him.

Your Monday-morning quarterbacking skills astound me.

Let's see...possible death during extraction...versus almost-certain death at the hands of Wright...

Does 'every effort' not include disengaging him from his pod? Because there sure weren't any Sentinels trying to pull him free before Wright got to him.

Your Monday-morning quarterbacking skills astound me.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Let's see...possible death during extraction...versus almost-certain death at the hands of Wright...

Does 'every effort' not include disengaging him from his pod? Because there sure weren't any Sentinels trying to pull him free before Wright got to him.

Your Monday-morning quarterbacking skills astound me.

Lets see... considering that Machinists are not in control of the pod system and are very probably about as welcome there as EPN, considering that Sentinels aren't designed for safe extraction of blue/redpills. I believe that when I said Machinists like me would make 'every effort' to ensure the man's safety after an extraction, I pretty much covered what we could do.

I should have known that it would never have occured to you to ask your metal masters' permission to go in and retrieve him yourself.

First off the assumption is that he would die during extraction. There are only two common causes of death when extracting bluepills. Heart attack (which can be avoided if the redpill trace program locates the pod quick enough) and drowning if the ship is unable to catch them after the go down the water slide.

GamiSB wrote:

First off the assumption is that he would die during extraction. There are only two common causes of death when extracting bluepills. Heart attack (which can be avoided if the redpill trace program locates the pod quick enough) and drowning if the ship is unable to catch them after the go down the water slide.

That's with bluepills who question their reality. The minds that don't question it are far more dependant on the simulation, ripping them for their world could have far more drastic results. I believe that's one of the firsts lessons we all get taught.

No, it was that they wouldn't handle the sudden change in reality as well as those questioning and could potenially fight to remain within the simulation. Death during extraction because of how they will handle it has never once been a concern. Three years of witnessing forced awakenings via Code Bombs, Goo crying hockey players, and a blood red sky have proven that much.

It is such a shame Daryl died.  He didn't deserve this fate.  The free-caring, book-loving, bushy afro'd bluepill was young, innocent, and naive.   

The Machines wouldn't allow him to be awakened because that is against their rules.  They knew we would try so they put sentinals around his pod so that if he did wake up, they would take him out.  They would rather a bluepill die than to allow another human be added to the Zion army.

The Machines are powerless to Wright. She is doing whatever she wants and showing that Machines do not have as much control and power as they say they do.  How many more humans have to die before the Machines figure a way to remove her and her kind from the Matrix?  It feels like the are not even trying.  It feels like they are just jumping out of her way and letting her do whatever she wants.  It feels that way because she roams the Matrix freely and doesn't run into opposition except from us.

Thank you Machine Operatives for responding and attacking Danielle.  Delaying her allowed us to protect Daryl and move him around while we tried to come up with a plan.  Even though we were just prolonging his death, we at least tried everything possible to protect him and I think we did a heck of a job!

 They would rather a bluepill die than to allow another human be added to the Zion army.

And you have trouble understanding this...why?  Why would they let their enemy increase their forces?

Illyria

The needs of the many...

Illyria

The needs of the many...

Illyria

So hypothetical, by that logic it's then totally ok that a few are being horribly murdered and there lives destroyed because everyone else is living a wonderful happy life?

If that's how it is then let the 1% do their thing, they are the few when compared to the other 99% ya know.

*edit*

the hypocrite comment was unneeded.

It's not ok.  But if it's a choice between a few dying to save many, or many dying to save a few, there's really no choice to make. 

Zion's taken its share of bluepill lives too.  Think of the freeway chase, before the truce, and all the accidents it caused.  And after the truce, the groups of redpills killing agents and their bluepill hosts for their tie clips.

Zion's killed many to save just a few, but they've also killed for fun.  That's the difference between us, and why I could never willingly stay with Zion.

Illyria

Well if it's any consolation, regardless of what the Machines think, we were there (Sentience) trying to save the bluepill, as well as forcing Danielle Wright to deal with us on several occasions. Unfortunately in the end, there just wasn't anything we could do. Bluepills are generally high priority, safety-wise, except when higher priorities take its place. BIP being one of them, as much as I hate to admit it, or Danielle Wright.

Just one of the few occasions the enemy of my enemy became my friend. Just for a night at least.

Well if it's any consolation, regardless of what the Machines think, we were there (Sentience) trying to save the bluepill, as well as forcing Danielle Wright to deal with us on several occasions. Unfortunately in the end, there just wasn't anything we could do. Bluepills are generally high priority, safety-wise, except when higher priorities take its place. BIP being one of them, as much as I hate to admit it, or Danielle Wright.

Just one of the few occasions the enemy of my enemy became my friend. Just for a night at least.

It is consolation and I at least thank you for your help. Really I was only messing with Illyria as the machine did help and you can never expect to make everyone happy. It's just bad luck really as to what happened and given the circumstances understandable as to why the Machine had such an increase in security around the pods. Could ti have gone down differently if there wasn't? Perhaps but that didn't happen so whats the point in arguing over it now.

It's not ok.  But if it's a choice between a few dying to save many, or many dying to save a few, there's really no choice to make. 

Zion's taken its share of bluepill lives too.  Think of the freeway chase, before the truce, and all the accidents it caused.  And after the truce, the groups of redpills killing agents and their bluepill hosts for their tie clips.

Zion's killed many to save just a few, but they've also killed for fun.  That's the difference between us, and why I could never willingly stay with Zion.

Illyria