59 posts · 2008-10-09 13:28:57 to 2009-01-26 14:55:14
where does it say cyph and Epn wont be supported by mxo o.ODevelopment Roundtable post by Rarebit. Content changes are being made in which will remove the ability for players to obtain EPN CYPH tags also these new forms of content relocation will not be offered for these organizations.
I'm guessing you'll pretty much get to participate as a Machinist.Im a Cypherite I dont pay SOE to play as a Machinist. That's just how it is. If Rarebit wants to take things away he takes away reasons to play that simple.Since there are only like... 10 Cypherites total on Recursion anyway, I'll just play the way I always have. If Cryptos or Veil ever do show up, you're guaranteed a nice event, though.And your tag will be superpimpin' rare, I guess./shrugThe entire thing's kind of lame.
The game may not support it (The game has never supported them technically with seperate mission controllers etc..) but that doesn't mean you need to stop being Cyph or EPN. Tag or no, if your that way inclined continue to play that role, noone is going to stop you the splinter orgs have just gone underground blending back in with their parent org, although for some this will (RP) be harder than others.If I want to roleplay with no real substance Ill call a 900 number.
For the story, I say it's a great way to streamline things. Zion and Machine need this more than we need EPN and Cyph.
But I'll keep the tag till I 'die'. Shi Xin will always be EPN.
It will pretty much go back to what it was before they officially stated that they were organizations. Were you not doing that before Trucidous?
They might be hinted in the storyline but I Idoubt there with be anymore actually references to them unless of course they decide to allow the org to do a sort of seperate mission during a machine live event.
I really don't know how it's gonna turn out, I know that most people that are with the Insidious faction are only there because of Kellners return. Most Cyph factions on syntax are pvp only so they may just keep the tag just to be different. So, I wouldn't bank your money on cyph rp on syntax to be real strong either.
lol this is almost like the reinsertion incident, I know alot of ppl left the org/game because of it. I wonder how many with leave this time...
My alt will be staying Cyph for however long as possible, this just gives me a reason to actully play them now because before I was only hopping on just for live events which were becoming non existant (now I know the reason lol).
I must admit though if rare is not gonna jump on Cryptos or Veil anymore I'm gonna really miss Veil. I like the substance of her character, but it really wouldn't make any sense to keep the orgs without leaders.
You know heres the biggest slap in the face for me. I spent two years agreeing that the Veil character was awesome. If you remember Strenlo both from the Unlimit arc as well as after the Truce broke out I was hired as A Cypherite to kill him. After doing so I was given a reward by a Machine LO in the form of her partial observational file from the Machines.It will pretty much go back to what it was before they officially stated that they were organizations. Were you not doing that before Trucidous?
They might be hinted in the storyline but I Idoubt there with be anymore actually references to them unless of course they decide to allow the org to do a sort of seperate mission during a machine live event.
I really don't know how it's gonna turn out, I know that most people that are with the Insidious faction are only there because of Kellners return. Most Cyph factions on syntax are pvp only so they may just keep the tag just to be different. So, I wouldn't bank your money on cyph rp on syntax to be real strong either.
lol this is almost like the reinsertion incident, I know alot of ppl left the org/game because of it. I wonder how many with leave this time...
My alt will be staying Cyph for however long as possible, this just gives me a reason to actully play them now because before I was only hopping on just for live events which were becoming non existant (now I know the reason lol).
I must admit though if rare is not gonna jump on Cryptos or Veil anymore I'm gonna really miss Veil. I like the substance of her character, but it really wouldn't make any sense to keep the orgs without leaders.
I'm going to continue being EPN. I don't think EPN or CYPH ever lost their purpose, and taking away our colorful tags won't do anything to dampen my spirit or hopefully others. In fact it makes it feel a little stronger. I want to prove that we haven't lost purpose because we haven't. Just because we can't get new tags doesn't mean we're obsolete. There are still fully established EPN/CYPH factions, and there's nothing stopping us from establishing new factions with CYPH/EPN tags that don't have the dash or colors. No new tags and no LE character interaction is not gonna stop me from continuing as EPN.
"The Cypherite and E Pluribus Neo organizations are returning to their original, "underground" status; their characters will still exist in the story, but we will not attempt to support them as player organizations with live quests or meetings; we have attempted to do so up to this point, but our development capabilities and existing game mechanics have never been able to do them justice."
If you read the rest of that sentence after "underground status" it says that they won't be supported by the characters, not that existing factions are going to go cower under their bed sheets because Michael, Shimada/Veil, Cryptos won't be showing up at meetings or leading us around anymore. This definitely sucks, but getting a high five from Shimada or Cryptos isn't the only thing that's worth being in EPN/CYPH.
Both CYPH/EPN have always been similar to the mach/zion, but there are some big differences as well, like EPN not having the Zion council to hamper efforts and being more aggressive and cyphs wanting reinsertion and being more aggressive. I don't see how war breaking out has made us lose our purpose. And it makes me so angry whenever I hear people, especially those in EPN/CYPH, say that we have no purpose. We have not lost purpose and we do have differences from the parent orgs.
With the truce broken the two splinter orgs have darn near identical goals anyways, hence no need to have a whole separate set of operations for the Cypherites. While keeping the tag will show to everyone that you still remain cypherite for whatever reason, functionally the machnists and cypherites are pretty much the same.The only reason our identies have been the same is because a lack of creativity by the writer.
I see nothing but an increase of subs coming from this.
Also as one of the original cyphs I always understood that we were an underground org from the start ....deal with it...
I plan to deal with it as it comes. Know what Im saying?I see nothing but an increase of subs coming from this.
Also as one of the original cyphs I always understood that we were an underground org from the start ....deal with it...
WoKeN wrote:I plan to deal with it as it comes. Know what Im saying?I see nothing but an increase of subs coming from this.
Also as one of the original cyphs I always understood that we were an underground org from the start ....deal with it...
I was just wondering if you guys think Rare will kill of the CYPH and EPN LE characters.He already stated he wasnt doing this so its a moot point.
Oh and how do you think it will happen if he does?
I honesty see no threat in this at all. I was a Cypherite when they first came out and honestly, I liked it when we weren't an Organisation. Truthfully, I think this is best for the Cypherites. The Cypherites only became a Organisation because of the truce, but without it the only thing we have different with the Machinist are that we are more based on beliefs and not based on efficiency.Im curious how do you see this as a positive in a gameplay aspect for us?
Like I said, in the beginning the Cypherites were never an Organisation. They were a group of people within Organisations that disagreed and regret taking the bluepill and want to return back into our pods. Yes, reinsertion is supposedly not possible, so as a Cypherite we help protect the bluepills and eradicate the rest of the bluepill threats.
Same goes to EPN. They are basically Zion, but they just believe in Neo and not the Zion Council. It's kinda simple when you look at it. Things go back to how they were back in the original MxO days with these splinter Orgs.
Nicho wrote:Well the thing is that the Cypherites from the beginning never should of had their own private content. I mean, why would we have different content when us and the Machines "basically" want the same thing in the end in general. Like what would we do differently?I honesty see no threat in this at all. I was a Cypherite when they first came out and honestly, I liked it when we weren't an Organisation. Truthfully, I think this is best for the Cypherites. The Cypherites only became a Organisation because of the truce, but without it the only thing we have different with the Machinist are that we are more based on beliefs and not based on efficiency.Im curious how do you see this as a positive in a gameplay aspect for us?
Like I said, in the beginning the Cypherites were never an Organisation. They were a group of people within Organisations that disagreed and regret taking the bluepill and want to return back into our pods. Yes, reinsertion is supposedly not possible, so as a Cypherite we help protect the bluepills and eradicate the rest of the bluepill threats.
Same goes to EPN. They are basically Zion, but they just believe in Neo and not the Zion Council. It's kinda simple when you look at it. Things go back to how they were back in the original MxO days with these splinter Orgs.
I agree whole heartedly on the RP aspect but from a logistical end it just seems like were supposed to appreciate not getting equal content.
And let's not forget that if the story had gone the way it was originally written, then we'd have lost the sub-orgs a long time ago when Kid and Cryptos had a "special" moment on the ascension monument.I'm not saying Chad's way was the right way (really, with Veil on your ship, it'd be pretty hard to escape or assist EPN, wouldn't it?) but it had a sense of closure and natural flow that this really doesn't seem to have, since the Cypherites and EPN are just kind of being dropped.
And let's not forget that if the story had gone the way it was originally written, then we'd have lost the sub-orgs a long time ago when Kid and Cryptos had a "special" moment on the ascension monument. Anyway, I don't see why we can't still be cypherites. As a vector cypherite it's not like we got much if any LE content for most of the duration of the ORG anyway, so really this isn't any different and now if we do get some Cryptos or Veil interaction it will be spontaneous and fun again.If I felt that were the case I would be all for this change. Taking away the tags is bitter sweet for me. As for the interaction being random and fun again I suppose I simply lack faith that Cypherites that stick this out and have stuck this out over the years will be serviced on even a level they are now when this happens.
My reason for going Merv is a series of negative values that arose while trying to give my Cyph background more depth. I first began noticing the failure of my RP when a certain thread came out and pretty much stated an obvious fact, where the hell is this org going? No matter how many angle I tried to think of, I couldn't really come to a conclusion. Secondly I could really find what sort of use my character was to the org, am I just another lackey that fights when told to? Do I have an actual purpose in this faction, and how can I tie in my backstory with current cypherite events. Afterwards Cyph events became less and less frequent, and trailed off to side stories with mention of the mainstory. So, what now, were not even part of the main story anymore? How the hell did the org get back to that position? I started noticing the same thing with EPN, they slowing started trailing off into a side story. I think what was the last straw for me really was, the Libertas Virtas Story . Can you recycle content is a worse way than that? Wasn't EPN already supposed to be like the Sleepwalker type situation, I mean Zion themselves were hunting them when they first appeared. I had seriuosly thought about leaving the moment it came out, but decided to stick around just out of curiosity. They pull off one major event and the next day Haigen signs her resignation... OMGWTF are you serious!!?? So now I'm left with what, two liasons that rarely jack in, one I barely speak o and the other I said maybe one or two words to since she replaced a previous liason.
I decided to jump ship with haigen at that point, there was seriously no way I can build my RP of that organization. I couldn't find any substance or even a good foundation for the heart of my characters story. My Cyph adventures with grace will be left as an event in which he was still trying to find his tue place in the matrix. My alt however I have not really built any rp on yet, this can be a great start for them seeing how it's sort of like a fresh start. This new direction seems like a second reboot of the cyph organization, first the realization of reinsertion not bieng poossible and now a side kick organization that shall rarely be mentioned in the main story.
I rather had been part of the original plan, to tell you the truth. I started my cyph rp with the knowlegde that we would be beaten. I didn't get as far as to wether or not I delete my character when the org fell but I was close to it. I seriously would have rathered that aproach, than being dust in the wind. The only reason we'll still even be acknowleged is because of the tags, but that's it.
I am now more confident than even in my decision for name of the faction. It will atleast keep our memory alive when seen by new players and not as a random name with the word CYPH next to it. Same thing with EPN, I think them choosing that name will benifit them even more now.
I will admit I now have a reason to play my alt seeing how there won't be anymore cyph factions popping up every thirty seconds. Plus it will give me a chance to play a different type of personality, even though I'm playing a skitzo type personality at the moment.
I just hope there are enough rpers left in the org when this update come out. As I said before like 95% of the cyph population on syntax is pvp only. This is actually one of the reasons I liked the small event groups, because you didn't have non rpers ruining events with ooc chat. Sadly this org is one of the worst for player events on syntax, no one is even IC and it's annoying when you have to wait 3 hours for people to stop arguing or spamming so you can continue the event.
Since rare isn't killing off Veil and Cryptos, it would actually be pretty awesome to have the chance encounters with them like when they first appeared.
Also if no story based RP is going to be that frequent anymore with this org then I'll defidently be making some, even if it's by myself with 50,000 alts.
I dealt with alot of the same things actually luckily I had alot of competition from factions like FA over the years two video's and the fact that I can proudly say I was the first leader to ever get a Cypherite tag. It really helped me flesh things out. Without what was a god mod video by Broin which we both years after realized was a really good RP building move for both our chars without Betrayal being made by us and without getting that first tag I doubt I would still be here today. I dont blame you a bit for leaving but it is really kind of sad.My reason for going Merv is a series of negative values that arose while trying to give my Cyph background more depth. I first began noticing the failure of my RP when a certain thread came out and pretty much stated an obvious fact, where the hell is this org going? No matter how many angle I tried to think of, I couldn't really come to a conclusion. Secondly I could really find what sort of use my character was to the org, am I just another lackey that fights when told to? Do I have an actual purpose in this faction, and how can I tie in my backstory with current cypherite events. Afterwards Cyph events became less and less frequent, and trailed off to side stories with mention of the mainstory. So, what now, were not even part of the main story anymore? How the hell did the org get back to that position? I started noticing the same thing with EPN, they slowing started trailing off into a side story. I think what was the last straw for me really was, the Libertas Virtas Story . Can you recycle content is a worse way than that? Wasn't EPN already supposed to be like the Sleepwalker type situation, I mean Zion themselves were hunting them when they first appeared. I had seriuosly thought about leaving the moment it came out, but decided to stick around just out of curiosity. They pull off one major event and the next day Haigen signs her resignation... OMGWTF are you serious!!?? So now I'm left with what, two liasons that rarely jack in, one I barely speak o and the other I said maybe one or two words to since she replaced a previous liason.
I decided to jump ship with haigen at that point, there was seriously no way I can build my RP of that organization. I couldn't find any substance or even a good foundation for the heart of my characters story. My Cyph adventures with grace will be left as an event in which he was still trying to find his tue place in the matrix. My alt however I have not really built any rp on yet, this can be a great start for them seeing how it's sort of like a fresh start. This new direction seems like a second reboot of the cyph organization, first the realization of reinsertion not bieng poossible and now a side kick organization that shall rarely be mentioned in the main story.
I rather had been part of the original plan, to tell you the truth. I started my cyph rp with the knowlegde that we would be beaten. I didn't get as far as to wether or not I delete my character when the org fell but I was close to it. I seriously would have rathered that aproach, than being dust in the wind. The only reason we'll still even be acknowleged is because of the tags, but that's it.
I am now more confident than even in my decision for name of the faction. It will atleast keep our memory alive when seen by new players and not as a random name with the word CYPH next to it. Same thing with EPN, I think them choosing that name will benifit them even more now.
I will admit I now have a reason to play my alt seeing how there won't be anymore cyph factions popping up every thirty seconds. Plus it will give me a chance to play a different type of personality, even though I'm playing a skitzo type personality at the moment.
I just hope there are enough rpers left in the org when this update come out. As I said before like 95% of the cyph population on syntax is pvp only. This is actually one of the reasons I liked the small event groups, because you didn't have non rpers ruining events with ooc chat. Sadly this org is one of the worst for player events on syntax, no one is even IC and it's annoying when you have to wait 3 hours for people to stop arguing or spamming so you can continue the event.
Since rare isn't killing off Veil and Cryptos, it would actually be pretty awesome to have the chance encounters with them like when they first appeared.
Also if no story based RP is going to be that frequent anymore with this org then I'll defidently be making some, even if it's by myself with 50,000 alts.
Just curious on some of your plans. I guess were not even going to be getting the organizational meetings or occasional live events so its pretty much if your Cypherite you don't get content.The same thing we do every night Pinky...
I dont know I may cut back down to one sub to see how things work out of morbid curiosity. Other than that who knows.
Phrack posted but RougeA wrote:
Cypherites, take this as a blessing, not a curse. Before you lies a vast opportunity. Sure, your organization leaders are leaving you high and dry, but so what? Cryptos wasn't a speck in our mind's eye before he burst onto the scene delcaring his agenda. I had left the Cypherite organization for the very things that you are regretting losing, but think about it for a minute.... before the so-called public operations, being a Cypherite had a meaning more than just being another hand of the machines. We followed our own agenda, not the ones set forth by Toorima and Cryptos. Before then, we were something to be respected and feared, not just a simple nuissance to be defeated, only to endlessly come back for more. Take this oppertunity to set forth your own beliefs and ideals, and carry them out accordingly, under your own power.
Not to rain on Rouge's parade but this most definitely is not a blessing and is a major blow to both orgs. Now that their leaders are going underground and will hardly be around the players within those orgs have no connection to the story they wanted to help play out. Anything we do now outside of what the story has the orgs doing is going to have to be player created which amounts to fan-fiction as far as the official story is concerned.
So unless you enjoy writing fanfiction and are fine with not playing out the orgs role this change is a blessing but for those of us who have put in up to three years of work only to be slapped in the face this is very much a curse.
Synapse777 wrote:
I always knew that reinsertion couldn't be done was a lie.
And that statement is based on what?
Godmod'ing the story to own aims... giving *cencored* about official outlines I guessPhrack posted but RougeA wrote:
Cypherites, take this as a blessing, not a curse. Before you lies a vast opportunity. Sure, your organization leaders are leaving you high and dry, but so what? Cryptos wasn't a speck in our mind's eye before he burst onto the scene delcaring his agenda. I had left the Cypherite organization for the very things that you are regretting losing, but think about it for a minute.... before the so-called public operations, being a Cypherite had a meaning more than just being another hand of the machines. We followed our own agenda, not the ones set forth by Toorima and Cryptos. Before then, we were something to be respected and feared, not just a simple nuissance to be defeated, only to endlessly come back for more. Take this oppertunity to set forth your own beliefs and ideals, and carry them out accordingly, under your own power.Not to rain on Rouge's parade but this most definitely is not a blessing and is a major blow to both orgs. Now that their leaders are going underground and will hardly be around the players within those orgs have no connection to the story they wanted to help play out. Anything we do now outside of what the story has the orgs doing is going to have to be player created which amounts to fan-fiction as far as the official story is concerned.
So unless you enjoy writing fanfiction and are fine with not playing out the orgs role this change is a blessing but for those of us who have put in up to three years of work only to be slapped in the face this is very much a curse.
Synapse777 wrote:
I always knew that reinsertion couldn't be done was a lie.
And that statement is based on what?
a bit off topic but what ever happened to those two frags given to epn and cyphs from the oracle to hold onto for something special?
or is that still going on and now there just dropping whatever use they had?
I am reposting part of what I wrote on the new approach thread because its relevant to this thread as well.
Ingus wrote:
These splinter orgs have identities. The Prophet dusters vs the Bandana rags . EPN, loyal followers of Neo looking to free the human race at all cost. They are looked on by Zion as reglious fanatics of a dead savior. Zion is too militant and don't rely on fate, prophecies, and messiahs to see them through.
Cypherites, loyalist of the late Cypher. Their hate for zion is too extreme to keep in line with the poised and methodical approach of the Machine organization. They want to put EVERYONE to sleep and kill all who oppose their goal. They're not by the book.
All these orgs lack is a little help from the devs to make them self-sufficient.
Opinionated solutions:
Cyphs are summoned to handle the covert operations. The dirty work that would give Machines a bad name. (PVP/RP).
EPNs... their fate in saviors, honoring the memory of Neo and what he has accomplished is a motivation in it's own. Hell Zion doesn't care about what Neo has done for them anymore. The truce is over the war is back on. Neo was just a moment in time that gave them one shiny hope (The Truce) but even that wasn't good enough.
Yes, yes, and yes. I couldn't agree with you more, Ingus. For those that say EPN and CYPHs have no purpose and they are basically the same as Zion and Machines have obviously never been in a hardcore RP EPN or CYPH faction, or aren't interested in those specific aspects that Ingus mentioned. I thought that EPN going to the no-fly zone was brilliant and much fresher than anything else that has been going on lately. Kid has always done way more interesting and exciting things compared to Niobe, besides getting herself shot. So, keep EPN and get rid of Zion. They are soo boring anyway 
I just feel like with EPN/Cyph you have more artistic freedom and its a waste to not tap into that.
The original plan was that EPN/Cyph was just going to be around for a little while and then go away. But the orgs were a bigger hit than they had anticipated and they couldnt get rid of them in fear of the backlash they would get. My point is, why is it okay now to get rid of them? Why take something away that was obviously good for the game?
Well yano I get the feeling Rarebit doesn't care about the EPN or CYPH community or their opinion on the changes. Heres my stance if the storyline wasn't clicking with certian members of the community the solution isn't to axe the organizations its to do what your paid for as an employee of SOE and make them not suck.I am reposting part of what I wrote on the new approach thread because its relevant to this thread as well.
Ingus wrote:
These splinter orgs have identities. The Prophet dusters vs the Bandana rags . EPN, loyal followers of Neo looking to free the human race at all cost. They are looked on by Zion as reglious fanatics of a dead savior. Zion is too militant and don't rely on fate, prophecies, and messiahs to see them through.
Cypherites, loyalist of the late Cypher. Their hate for zion is too extreme to keep in line with the poised and methodical approach of the Machine organization. They want to put EVERYONE to sleep and kill all who oppose their goal. They're not by the book.
All these orgs lack is a little help from the devs to make them self-sufficient.
Opinionated solutions:
Cyphs are summoned to handle the covert operations. The dirty work that would give Machines a bad name. (PVP/RP).
EPNs... their fate in saviors, honoring the memory of Neo and what he has accomplished is a motivation in it's own. Hell Zion doesn't care about what Neo has done for them anymore. The truce is over the war is back on. Neo was just a moment in time that gave them one shiny hope (The Truce) but even that wasn't good enough.
Yes, yes, and yes. I couldn't agree with you more, Ingus. For those that say EPN and CYPHs have no purpose and they are basically the same as Zion and Machines have obviously never been in a hardcore RP EPN or CYPH faction, or aren't interested in those specific aspects that Ingus mentioned. I thought that EPN going to the no-fly zone was brilliant and much fresher than anything else that has been going on lately. Kid has always done way more interesting and exciting things compared to Niobe, besides getting herself shot. So, keep EPN and get rid of Zion. They are soo boring anyway
I just feel like with EPN/Cyph you have more artistic freedom and its a waste to not tap into that.
The original plan was that EPN/Cyph was just going to be around for a little while and then go away. But the orgs were a bigger hit than they had anticipated and they couldnt get rid of them in fear of the backlash they would get. My point is, why is it okay now to get rid of them? Why take something away that was obviously good for the game?
Um, actually "E Pluribus Neo" on Syntax was the first faction to receive the EPN tag. Pluribus Neo was the first to use the name as its faction title.
He took this organization on when he brought in the tags and gave Pluribus Neo and Viral Humanity each the first ones and everyone elses to follow over the years.
a bit off topic but what ever happened to those two frags given to epn and cyphs from the oracle to hold onto for something special?I'm going to assume this will be dropped, so i'm not disappointed. The Oracle said we'd know when to use it.... best players could do would be to suggest we use it, but prolly up to Rare to decide to use it since Shimada and Michael are holding it. It's always possible it could come up in a cinematic or spontaneous live event that every one who cares to see it will miss IF Rare decided to ever show up at those events with the sub org characters, which we dunno if he'll do or not.
or is that still going on and now there just dropping whatever use they had?
privaronT wrote:Well whatever its called I know its Phracks faction and I have always been under the impression they were first. As for Viral Humanity I know that much because both Mek myself were pretty much the leaders with Tetracleric Frei and Zag on the council.Um, actually "E Pluribus Neo" on Syntax was the first faction to receive the EPN tag. Pluribus Neo was the first to use the name as its faction title.
He took this organization on when he brought in the tags and gave Pluribus Neo and Viral Humanity each the first ones and everyone elses to follow over the years.
GamiSB wrote:Phrack's faction was the first to name itself "Pluribus Neo" my faction was the first to obtain the EPN tag. In fact the Recursion EPN factions had to wait the longest to get their tags because of Liaison issues.privaronT wrote:Well whatever its called I know its Phracks faction and I have always been under the impression they were first. As for Viral Humanity I know that much because both Mek myself were pretty much the leaders with Tetracleric Frei and Zag on the council.Um, actually "E Pluribus Neo" on Syntax was the first faction to receive the EPN tag. Pluribus Neo was the first to use the name as its faction title.
He took this organization on when he brought in the tags and gave Pluribus Neo and Viral Humanity each the first ones and everyone elses to follow over the years.
privaronT wrote:Wow I have always been under the impression E Pluribus on Recursion solved the first puzzle. Although considering the similiar names I have probably always just been under the impression the people I heard about were them instead of you guys.GamiSB wrote:Phrack's faction was the first to name itself "Pluribus Neo" my faction was the first to obtain the EPN tag. In fact the Recursion EPN factions had to wait the longest to get their tags because of Liaison issues.privaronT wrote:Well whatever its called I know its Phracks faction and I have always been under the impression they were first. As for Viral Humanity I know that much because both Mek myself were pretty much the leaders with Tetracleric Frei and Zag on the council.Um, actually "E Pluribus Neo" on Syntax was the first faction to receive the EPN tag. Pluribus Neo was the first to use the name as its faction title.
He took this organization on when he brought in the tags and gave Pluribus Neo and Viral Humanity each the first ones and everyone elses to follow over the years.
